Project Mewtwo

[SuSa]

*coughlucariocough*

incase you're not quite aware, lucario can currently up-b from the ground and then up-b again without landing.

Not in vBrawl. (as stated)

I don't play brawl+, I was simply pointing something out. This is going to be like ZELDA not LUCARIO anyways... right?

 

[feardragon64]

Uh not going to lie, I didn't read all 22 pages of the thread....I read like the first page and the last page but....

What about using an auto-trip status for confusion against a grounded opponent, and a "footstool" against opponents in the air. If that's possible anyways. Basically the idea behind it is simply that Mewtwo can set up a tech chase with his side b. As long as you modify the frames for how long the move lasts properly, I think you wouldn't have to worry about "infinites" and such for vbrawl and such. Should be fine for Brawl+ as well. Also if it seems like it's "broken" you can always modify the range by picking a different base attack used for the animation, right?

Just an idea.

 

[Rykoshet]

^ That's a rather awesome suggestion.

 

[jokey665]

Only in first-gen. Every game after that hasn't had the TM for it.

Note how I said "R/B/Y" insinuating that I know full well that it is only in first-gen.

Not in vBrawl.

True. I disregarded this fact as it is entirely unlikely that Mewtwo would ever be legal in any way in any vBrawl tournament, because doing so would make the tournament no longer vBrawl in nature. While speaking of Brawl+ on the other hand, Mewtwo being a legal character choice is a much more likely occurrence.

I see no issue using mechanics that already exist in Brawl+ to further an idea that will essentially only effect Brawl+.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

Agreed. Mewtwo can't be legal in vBrawl! I mean,he is not standard. By standard, I mean tournament legal, lol. This is hidden for the lolz.

 

[5ive]

Everyone watch the Return of Mewtwo. It'll make you cry.

That is all.

/HIDDENCOMBO

 

[bobson]

True. I disregarded this fact as it is entirely unlikely that Mewtwo would ever be legal in any way in any vBrawl tournament, because doing so would make the tournament no longer vBrawl in nature. While speaking of Brawl+ on the other hand, Mewtwo being a legal character choice is a much more likely occurrence.

Who cares about tournaments? I'm in this for fun.

 

[shinyspoon42]

Play R/G/B and try to catch M2 w/ just regular pokeballs... that'll make you cry.

Invisible dance party?

 

[shinyspoon42]

Who cares about tournaments? I'm in this for fun.

then play Brawl+

Btw, I think the trip idea sounds good. On the teleport, I think it should be like his melee one, except no free fall afterwards.

EDIT: double post, woops sorry guys. >,<

 

[Strong Badam]

for some crazy reason, i think it'd be possible to code a grounded Up-B and an aerial up-b differently (so i herd u like dk, sheik, bowser, etc.) to get rid off the upb -> jump -> upb -> attack nonsense people are *****ing about.

 

[Slashy]

Some ideas I got after looking at Bulbapedia

-Give it wall clinging, it can learn Rock Climb, so this move is possible
-Possibly give him Psych Up, any attack that produces a status effect (sleep, dazed, freeze) is reversed on to the player who did the attack. To give it more of a use, you can have it able to walk while using it.
-Give it Guard Swap, basically it can swap shield damage with its opponent
-Give it a use of Barrier, basically when ever Mewtwo has its shield up, it has super armor. You cannot KO it through shield pokes.
-Give it Hyper Beam, it takes a while to charge up,but it hits the opponent like a mini version of Aura Storm, when the attack ends there is an extreme amount of ending lag (recharge).

 

[codfish92]

Everyone watch the Return of Mewtwo. It'll make you cry.

That is all.

/HIDDENCOMBO

every pokemon show makes me cry. not because they are bad, but they ash always gets rid of his good pokemon and says "goodbye soandso. i'll never forget you." and we never see them again(except charizard, but only once every 200 episodes, mainly why i stopped watching. and return of mewtwo actually has crying pokemon in it, and that makes me cry. like these faces but with more tears and sadness.

and no cookieM0Nster. nothing has been worked on, it's just been arguing and me drinking pints of my own tears whenever 5ive mentions mewtwo returns and pokemon.

 

[leafbarrett]

This is going to be like ZELDA not LUCARIO anyways... right?

I'd rather not lose Zelda, but if it means Mewtwo won't be mapped onto Lucario, then I don't care WHO it replaces.

Who cares about tournaments? I'm in this for fun.

Seconded.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Some ideas I got after looking at Bulbapedia

-Give it wall clinging, it can learn Rock Climb, so this move is possible
-Possibly give him Psych Up, any attack that produces a status effect (sleep, dazed, freeze) is reversed on to the player who did the attack. To give it more of a use, you can have it able to walk while using it.
-Give it Guard Swap, basically it can swap shield damage with its opponent
-Give it a use of Barrier, basically when ever Mewtwo has its shield up, it has super armor. You cannot KO it through shield pokes.
-Give it Hyper Beam, it takes a while to charge up,but it hits the opponent like a mini version of Aura Storm, when the attack ends there is an extreme amount of ending lag (recharge).

1. I like the wall cling idea
2.no. there's no place for it on his moveset (confusion possibly but that's being worked on in other ways)
3.wtf? No that would just be stupid and unnecessary.
4.That would be broken
5.See number 2

 

[homsar]

I'd rather not lose Zelda, but if it means Mewtwo won't be mapped onto Lucario, then I don't care WHO it replaces.Seconded.

He wasn't talking about replacing Zelda... they said Mewtwos upB would be like Zelda, not Lucarios. And if progress is ever made on the clone engine then we will have no need to replace anyone.

And as for you not caring about tournaments, it doesn't matter if you dont play in them, mewtwo needs to be viable for tournament and free play.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Yeah Zelda's is actually really similar to mewtwo's; you just need to edit the disappear/reappear animations, cut the lag on both startup and end lag, remove the the attack hitboxes on it, and viola, you have teleport. Oh, and it needs to be able to go in more directions as well.

 

[5ive]

every pokemon show makes me cry. not because they are bad, but they ash always gets rid of his good pokemon and says "goodbye soandso. i'll never forget you." and we never see them again(except charizard, but only once every 200 episodes, mainly why i stopped watching. and return of mewtwo actually has crying pokemon in it, and that makes me cry. like these faces but with more tears and sadness.

and no cookieM0Nster. nothing has been worked on, it's just been arguing and me drinking pints of my own tears whenever 5ive mentions mewtwo returns and pokemon.

Tell me about it. Another Pokemon movie that made me cry was Lucario and the Mystery of Mew.

Lucario is so **** loyal and selfless ;_;

And yeah, Mewtwo is looking just fine moveset wise. I can't wait until model hacks are ready. It'll take Brawl+ to another level.
/genericontopicsentence

 

[Strong Badam]

im pretty sure ppl are just waiting until PSA to do this, because unlike EVERY OTHER CHARACTER THAT THEY LEFT OUT FROM MELEE, Mewtwo isn't a clone of any other character (other than Mew). it'd be pretty difficult to do this w/o PSA.

 

[Meccs]

Been reading through this topic and it sounds pretty awesome :D. Just have one question, though: is it going to made for Brawl+ only or for vBrawl then changed for Brawl+?

And maybe give teleport some starting and end damage? Like as much as Pikachu's Quick Attack?

 

[codfish92]

im pretty sure ppl are just waiting until PSA to do this, because unlike EVERY OTHER CHARACTER THAT THEY LEFT OUT FROM MELEE, Mewtwo isn't a clone of any other character (other than Mew). it'd be pretty difficult to do this w/o PSA.

****! now that you mentioned pokemon history, i'm crying again

mewtwo was unique. not a clone of another smash character

oh god i'm crying again

 

[Volt7x]

****! now that you mentioned pokemon history, i'm crying again

mewtwo was unique. not a clone of another smash character

oh god i'm crying again

Don't worry, one day we'll have him back. We just need model hacking now...

 

[NeonTogepi]

Just from looking at textures alone, use the melee model. It's much more detailed.
go to spriters-resource, they have rips of the melee texture for him and the pbr one. The PBR one is as detailed as mewtwo's brawl trophy. (Actually, every non-playable pokemon uses textures similar to PBR's very undetailed textures.

 

[DarkDragoon]

>_> There are way too many things that we're mentioned in this topic. I skipped everything after the second page....at 40 posts per page.

Yea, I have Mewtwo planned out to the last frame...but I think I'll save it for when actual people building Mewtwo release a codeset.

I will say this though: The idea for his SideB being Swift[do something like Melee Sheik's SR Smash] or Psychic[I like the idea of damge-less knockback, but I say make the release of it like Zelda's SideB, and depending on where you are against the explosion, you take damage and get sent straight up[Center of the explosion] or get KB in the direction you are relative to the center[If it explodes above you, within range, you get sent down]. Obviously the range of this would be WAYYYY smaller than Zelda's, and either move faster or slower...or maybe just accelerate faster...eh, testing will tell.
-DD

 

[KSUkid]

>_> There are way too many things that we're mentioned in this topic. I skipped everything after the second page....at 40 posts per page.

Yea, I have Mewtwo planned out to the last frame...but I think I'll save it for when actual people building Mewtwo release a codeset.

I will say this though: The idea for his SideB being Swift[do something like Melee Sheik's SR Smash] or Psychic[I like the idea of damge-less knockback, but I say make the release of it like Zelda's SideB, and depending on where you are against the explosion, you take damage and get sent straight up[Center of the explosion] or get KB in the direction you are relative to the center[If it explodes above you, within range, you get sent down]. Obviously the range of this would be WAYYYY smaller than Zelda's, and either move faster or slower...or maybe just accelerate faster...eh, testing will tell.
-DD

Psychic = ranged grab area (multi-target possible) + throw? Of course, that isn't currently doable, iirc, but it's a thought.

 

[colored blind]

Planning it down to the frame is stupid at this juncture. If we can't even playtest it, what's the point of making it so specific?

Though, Melee Mewtwo's frame data would definitely be useful to have.

 

[bobson]

You said something about Mewtwo's frame data?

I was working on a rundown of Mewtwo's moves and their properties, but a beta of PSA was just released so I'll be getting to work instead.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

You guys are getting way to zealous over Mewtwo, and trying to make him something like an MK on steroids. Ranged grab? Hyper Beam? Barrier makes invincibility frames? Make it reasonable, people.

 

[bobson]

Let's make his teleport be able to be used infinitely in the air and have hitboxes on startup and end. And let's give him Rest, except the hitbox is all over the screen and there's no endlag.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

You guys are getting way to zealous over Mewtwo, and trying to make him something like an MK on steroids. Ranged grab? Hyper Beam? Barrier makes invincibility frames? Make it reasonable, people.

mewtwo had a pretty good ranged grab in melee


Whoever proposed hyper beam was just a dumb piece of **** who had no idea about mewtwo's preferred moveset and staple moves

Lots of people have invincibility frames on some of their moves (Cough Wolf down b cough)


FFFFFFFFFFFFF U JUST GOT NINJA'D

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Yes, but Barrier was proposed as a second shield that couldn't be poked and would protect Mewtwo from KOs. And by RG I meant someone was proposing Psychic as that. Wtf?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Oh, well the ranged psychic grab is just stupid. It was fine in melee.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Yeah. Psychic being used as a push effect or even a nerfed Din's Fire is fine, but grab, really?

@Bobson: Sigged.

 

[bobson]

I've been messing around for two hours and have succeeded in making Lucario's up-B freeze the game and his down-B do nothing but make him drop like a rock when used in the air.

...this is gonna take awhile.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

That, my good sir, is worthy of being a character itself.

 

[Wavedash Master]

>_> There are way too many things that we're mentioned in this topic. I skipped everything after the second page....at 40 posts per page.

Yea, I have Mewtwo planned out to the last frame...but I think I'll save it for when actual people building Mewtwo release a codeset.

I will say this though: The idea for his SideB being Swift[do something like Melee Sheik's SR Smash] or Psychic[I like the idea of damge-less knockback, but I say make the release of it like Zelda's SideB, and depending on where you are against the explosion, you take damage and get sent straight up[Center of the explosion] or get KB in the direction you are relative to the center[If it explodes above you, within range, you get sent down]. Obviously the range of this would be WAYYYY smaller than Zelda's, and either move faster or slower...or maybe just accelerate faster...eh, testing will tell.
-DD

Why not release your planned out Mewtwo now? PSA v0.1 was released today and I'm sure people are going to be willing to start (I can't run the program because I have a Mac).

 

[bobson]

Slight problem.
Hitboxes are mapped to bones, so even if we fully recreate Mewtwo's moveset on Lucario, once we change the model, they'll all have to be remapped and their positions will change.

For now I'll work on getting Mewtwo's special moves and general mechanics working properly, but I think we'll need the model importer before we can start testing his full moveset.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

Let's make his teleport be able to be used infinitely in the air and have hitboxes on startup and end. And let's give him Rest, except the hitbox is all over the screen and there's no endlag.

and i am going to do that to Jigglypuff.

Well that kinda sucks. I guess that you'll just have to edit everything once that model importing is possible.

 

[bobson]

I'm not sure if anyone else is working on this, but I'm gonna be gone for awhile, so I'll post my notes:

Disable is working and easy to recreate; just a basic hitbox with a stun flag. As of now it's pretty unbalanced, though; it's a free fsmash even at 0% and I can't figure out how to decrease the stun time. Likely solution is to increase the lag on the move. Oh, and it needs separate air/ground mechanics so it stops halting your momentum in the air.

Teleport looks to be a little more difficult. Zelda's up-B, Sheik's up-B, Metaknight's cape, etc. are all brimming with undefineds and editing the subactions they call only affects what you can do before and after the teleport. Length, teleport time, directional capabilities, and whether or not it causes freefall are all things that we'll have to figure out by trial and error.

Confusion is probably possible by making a grab hitbox that sends the opponent very slightly up, forcing a techchase before they get out of stun. I don't know if it's possible to recreate the reflect-but-not-really-reflect effect it had on projectiles in Melee, but I think we can settle for an actual reflector if it isn't. And let's make it flip the opponents around like Mario's cape, too, just to screw with their heads. It wouldn't be Confusion without being confusing.

Shadow Ball is obvious. Aura Sphere, however, is insufficient as a strict replacement (at least for me) until I can get it to fire in that back-and-forth motion Shadow Ball had. Since the sphere is a prop and we can't edit props yet, this will have to wait.

Fthrow shouldn't be a problem to recreate.

Nair, usmash, jab (first hit), and grab all spawn hitboxes from relatively similar bones for Lucario and Mewtwo, so these should be able to be recreated without the model importer. Mewtwo's dsmash could also be theoretically recreated by using Lucario's down-angled ftilt animation and having it spawn a darkness effect.

A way we could accurately recreate Mewtwo's moveset on Lucario while still having it be transferable between the two models would be to associate all the hitboxes to a bone in the same spots on Lucario's and Mewtwo's models like the torso.

Mewtwo's standing animation should be him floating off the ground with his arms crossed. Totally badass.

On that note, making acceptable model animation is hard. I'll be able to get it done eventually, but ****ed if it won't take forever. Are there any people interested in this who are actually experienced with working with models?

Mewtwo's trophy model needs more detailed textures before we can use it as a character model. It looks out of place next to the more detailed textures on the normal characters.

General mechanics should be easy to recreate; test where Mewtwo is in relation to other characters in Melee, then use those results to come up with values for Brawl.

Until it's possible to repack BRSARs, getting rid of all of Lucario's voice SFX and having Mewtwo just go silent seems like the best method.

Mewtwo, obviously, will have to be balanced separately for vBrawl and Brawl+.

I wish Brawl had a debug mode.

Life throws bull**** at you at the worst possible times, I swear. I won't be gone indefinitely, but it'll be at least a week or two before I can get back to working on his moveset, let alone the model animations. If someone else decides to take this up in the meantime, please please don't do a half-***** job of it. Getting Mewtwo into Brawl is going to require making all the prim and polish of every other character, and this game is polished so much it shines more than a Melee Fox main.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

So, your gonna try to make Disable not cancell momentum? I think you should let it, as Mewtwo is going to be a relatively light, floaty character.

As for Teleport, I'm not sure if you should give it FF or not. I'm leaning towards not. Make it like ROB, where he can attack out of it, but not airdodge.

Confusion IMO should be a real reflector, and turn opponents around.

This isn't really going overboard, trust me, as many characters have these sort of effects. Mario's Cape, ROB's Burner, GaW's Bucket, etc.

 

[GigaBowserXyZ]

mewtwo? floaty and light?