Project Mewtwo

[dabridge]

Animations =/= Hit Boxes

PW's program shows that when using Pheonix Mario's down b. Those hitboxes aren't part of his normal down tilted fsmash. Most of Mario's animations are the same. Just a different model and a few touch ups.

I mean that Mewtwo should keep the animations he had in Melee (This should be possible once model hacking is figured out), aside from any possible touch ups that they might need to look even better (or any new moves that he is given). Animations like his standing on the edge of the stage were cool (where he rocks back and forth).

'Tis true, I just meant that Mewtwo's moveset wasn't exactly perfect in Melee, and say you want to make a change. For simplicity, say fair. If we had the same animation in Melee, his had would be very close to his body, and if we ever wanted to move the hitbox or make it larger (for a more range move), it would look weird.

I see what you mean now though I just didn't want to sound like an idiot... I guess it's too late for that.

 

[Volkner582]

Main objectives:
Mewtwo model successfully replaces chosen base character.
QUOTE]

Does this mean the chosen base character would no longer be playable?

I love Mewtwo, but I don't want him to replace anyone.

BTW, sorry if the quote looks weird, I failed at cutting it down to my point of concern.

 

[VietGeek]

no, clone engine would make it so you can differentiate between the two.

Anyway, moveset animations are pretty much all in place lol. Jiang wanted to remind me making that happen w/o making mewtwo freeze/glitch/look dumb will require a lot of work redoing motion files and stuff regarding how skeletons work out (ex: spacies all have similar skeletons so most of their moves work as intended when swapped but manchu freezes cuz Ganon has no crawling animation so his skeleton doesn't support that).

Needs moar magic imo

 

[Skieth]

All for it

This thread is extremely premature. That being said; I'm glad someone is trying to organize the mewtwo revival movement. I look forward to seeing what comes of this, since mewtwo is without a doubt the most deserving character not in brawl.

I'm sure this isn't the place for this but, in my opinion we should try to make lucario less like mewtwo. Mewtwo from Melee and Lucario From Brawl are a bit too similar to both be in the game.

 

[Volkner582]

This thread is extremely premature. That being said; I'm glad someone is trying to organize the mewtwo revival movement. I look forward to seeing what comes of this, since mewtwo is without a doubt the most deserving character not in brawl.

I'm sure this isn't the place for this but, in my opinion we should try to make lucario less like mewtwo. Mewtwo from Melee and Lucario From Brawl are a bit too similar to both be in the game.

You mean like making Mewtwo the 36th character? I am totally in agreement with that! However, Mewtwo and Lucario are only similar in their Shadow Ball/Aura Sphere.

 

[VietGeek]

mewtwo and lucario are almost nothing alike aside from throwing balls of energy and have "aura-esque" effects. <_<

and are talking pokemon but really now lol.

 

[timothyung]

This thread is extremely premature. That being said; I'm glad someone is trying to organize the mewtwo revival movement. I look forward to seeing what comes of this, since mewtwo is without a doubt the most deserving character not in brawl.

I'm sure this isn't the place for this but, in my opinion we should try to make lucario less like mewtwo. Mewtwo from Melee and Lucario From Brawl are a bit too similar to both be in the game.

How in the world is Lucario similar to Mewtwo?
Their similarities are:
Neutral B being almost the same
Up B not doing damage
Similar fsmash

They really aren't similar. Link and Tlink are much more similar than them.

BTW we should look at similar hitboxes first. Currently with PSA we can't grab the animations from other characters, but we can take the hitboxes from them. Completely ignore the animation part, just look at moves with similar hitboxes, for now. For example, CF's uair, with a few edits, can be made into M2's uair. Find moves like this.

 

[Fenrir]

I don't know if this has been touched on, but a BIG part of what made Mewtwo in SSBM was his quirky double jump. Depending on your timing you could either do a Double-Jump Cancel or you could do an extended jump by attacking at the peak of his rise. Do you think it will be possible to replicate that?

 

[tsunami70875]

I think for mewtwo's final smash it could be done by using the attack from deoxys when he comes out of the pokeball (i think it's hyper beam). Also it would be cool to give him a floating animation when he is standing and running (maybe steal the running animation from charizard?)

that's too much like lucario's final smash though...

 

[D.B.K.]

I don't know if this has been touched on, but a BIG part of what made Mewtwo in SSBM was his quirky double jump. Depending on your timing you could either do a Double-Jump Cancel or you could do an extended jump by attacking at the peak of his rise. Do you think it will be possible to replicate that?

Didn't the WBR have a double jump cancel code for Ness a while back?

 

[Shadic]

It made Ness have super armor, or be invincible or something for a couple frames, and people complained.

That said, it could be a cool feature for Mewtwo, so I don't see a problem, heh.

 

[Shadowmaster9000]

Give Mewtwo Pikachu's final smash, only make Mewtwo more visible in the ball of energy and rather than making it multi-hit, make it a single but powerful strike like Super Sonic.

If anyone can remember the first movie, it would be like how Mewtwo tries to bash Mew with a spherical psychic barrier.

 

[NeonTogepi]

When just moveset hacking is out, Lucario, obviously.
Though when both moveset and model hacking are released, Sheik wouldn't be a terrible choice.

 

[exfatal]

Give Mewtwo Pikachu's final smash, only make Mewtwo more visible in the ball of energy and rather than making it multi-hit, make it a single but powerful strike like Super Sonic.

If anyone can remember the first movie, it would be like how Mewtwo tries to bash Mew with a spherical psychic barrier.

this^ or make Mewtwo's final smash shadows assist trophy. but instead of slowing down it can do repeated damage with a final knock back at the end and make it purple lol. Also mewtwo's Ftilt shouldnt it be charazards Ftilt, since his tail is longer just take away the fire effect

 

[C.box]

Nair: lucas
Fair: Wolf
Bair: Yoshi
Dair: Zelda
Uair: falcon or zss

F-smash: Lucario
U-smash: Lucario
D-smash: ZSS

B: Lucario (duh)
Side-B: lucario's double team? lol both the side-b and down-b would need major work to actually work like m2's.
Up-B: Zelda
Down-B: sheik's sideb?

Jab: lucario
Ftilt: charizard
Utilt: marth? or Lucas
Dtilt: fox or Pikachu (I think fox would fit it better)
Dash: ness or Zelda

B-throw: Ness
F-throw: Falco's B-throw or fox's
U-throw: Ness
D-throw: mario or luigi's

 

[trojanpooh]

If this actually ends up working, I think we should look into making Lucario not so floaty. He's fighting/steel type, it doesn't make sense for him to float around like a psychic type.

 

[V-K]

This idea is awesome and it would be cool if it worked.
The best would be if we could make new animations to make them look more like Melee but I think that is unbelievable hard to do.

But I think Mewtwos down B wasn´t really useful. What about something like that:

 

[Gregory2590]

I still don't get why he's a steel type except for the spike in this chest.

 

[5ive]

*watches Mewtwo Returns for inspiration*

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

Nair: lucas
Fair: Wolf
Bair: Yoshi
Dair: Zelda
Uair: falcon or zss

F-smash: Zelda
U-smash: Zelda
D-smash: Lucas

B: Lucario (duh)
Side-B: The ability to trip opponents with his mind...
Up-B: Zelda
Down-B: Shortened Sing? lol

Jab: lucario
Ftilt: charizard
Utilt: marth lucas
Dtilt: fox Pikachu
Dash: ness or Zelda

B-throw: Ness
F-throw: Falco's B-throw or fox's
U-throw: Ness
D-throw: mario or luigi's

My changes are in red. And all the original attacks with a dark/aura power.

*watches Mewtwo Returns for inspiration*

Somebody, put this man in charge this instant!

If this actually ends up working, I think we should look into making Lucario not so floaty. He's fighting/steel type, it doesn't make sense for him to float around like a psychic type.

He actually was pretty **** floaty in melee.

 

[codfish92]

I still don't get why he's a steel type except for the spike in this chest.

why is gyarados flying type when he can't learn fly and doesn't have wings and lives in the water. it's Nintendo it has weird ****. as for mewtwo, i like the idea of his down b being like the dark ball from the first movie. it would make him seem unique.

 

[Slashy]

Tri-Brow are you going to use the announcer call for Mewtwo?

 

[hotdogturtle]

If you're going to make Mewtwo from scratch, I see no reason not to replace his side-b and down-b, as they were both completely useless in Melee. You have the freedom and the resources to create new, better moves for him; you don't have to restrict yourself to using his old bad ones.

 

[bobson]

If you're going to make Mewtwo from scratch, I see no reason not to replace his side-b and down-b, as they were both completely useless in Melee. You have the freedom and the resources to create new, better moves for him; you don't have to restrict yourself to using his old bad ones.

Disable is potentially useful, though; just make the stun state last a little bit longer. Confusion is just conceptually dumb.

 

[5ive]

To be honest, I'd rather for for accuracy just for Nostalgia. Who cares if it was useless, it's what made Mewtwo cool in the first place

*continues to watch Mewtwo Returns*

 

[codfish92]

Edit: nvr mind
and i too still watch mewtwo returns.
it's .... the best(say like Christopher walker talks)

 

[The Immortal Sir NZ]

Nair: lucas
Fair: Wolf
Bair: Yoshi
Dair: Zelda
Uair: falcon or zss

F-smash: Lucario or Zelda *
U-smash: Lucario or Zelda *
D-smash: ZSS or Lucas *

B: Lucario (duh)
Side-B:
Up-B: Zelda
Down-B:

Jab: lucario (only the first jab)
Ftilt: charizard
Utilt: marth? or Lucas
Dtilt: fox *
Dash: Zelda *

B-throw: Ness
F-throw:
U-throw: Ness
D-throw: mario or luigi's

My changes are marked by an aterisk *

And as for Side and Down B, and F-throw being blank, Mewtwo deserves better options.
F-throw was useless, and Side and Down B were very situational.

I'm thinking since confusion was supposed to also reflect projectiles, but did a pretty bad job at it, we could replace it with barrier or reflect, and make it similar to pit's shield, where it only reflects on one side.

As for the other B move, I like the what the other people have been saying about swift and psychic.

And I'm clueless with what to do with F-throw

 

[bobson]

To be honest, I'd rather for for accuracy just for Nostalgia. Who cares if it was useless, it's what made Mewtwo cool in the first place

Confusion, in all likelihood, would either be impossible or very hard to implement due to the way it works. I could be wrong, but I don't see anything else in Brawl that has that kind of effect. To put it in would be to put a lot of effort into a completely worthless move.

Also, you can't replace Lucario with Mewtwo, because then Mewtwo would have to crawl.

And Mewtwo doesn't ****ing crawl.

And I'm clueless with what to do with F-throw

Falco's?

 

[hotdogturtle]

Also, you can't replace Lucario with Mewtwo, because then Mewtwo would have to crawl.

And Mewtwo doesn't ****ing crawl.

This is what animation changing is for. He doesn't have to literally get on his hand and knees and crawl.

 

[The Immortal Sir NZ]

Falco's?

I think we should get something different for F-throw because, it was only usefull when you were against a wall. I just mean maybe we could get a throw that maybe he could combo out of or something.

Because in Melee, U-throw was the killer for floaties (and you could pull off sexy double fair combos out of it on fox), B-throw was the killer for fast fallers, D-throw was good for damage and tech chasing, and F-throw... wasn't really useful.

 

[NukSuCao]

Mewtwo doesn't ****ing crawl.

I don't quite understand the technical standpoint, but this does seem like a bit of a task. Just a bit. He's a really weird character in the way he moves. I loved Mewtwo, and did hate his side and down b.

I liked the idea of Psychic being like Din's Fire. Maybe make it big and weak at first, like the size of Ness's normal b, then shrink as it flies and be a concentrated hit. That seems kinda cool, but then again, sort of useless.

 

[5ive]

Confusion, in all likelihood, would either be impossible or very hard to implement due to the way it works. I could be wrong, but I don't see anything else in Brawl that has that kind of effect. To put it in would be to put a lot of effort into a completely worthless move.

You're unfortunately right. I'd go with this though:

B: Lucario (duh)
Side-B: The ability to trip opponents with his mind...
Up-B: Zelda
Down-B: Shortened Sing? lol

 

[bobson]

This is what animation changing is for. He doesn't have to literally get on his hand and knees and crawl.

I can't see how you could animate him doing anything sufficiently badass (like floating real close to the ground or something) while still having it mesh in with his dtilt. He'd have to be in that "kneeling" position.

I think we should get something different for F-throw because, it was only usefull when you were against a wall. I just mean maybe we could get a throw that maybe he could combo out of or something.

Most characters have at least one cruddy throw; they don't all have to be useful.

Although it would be hilarious if he had a chaingrab somehow.

 

[hotdogturtle]

Also, some of you aren't thinking far enough outside the box. This is more than just transfering a character's move onto a different character. Think about Phoenix Mario's down-b for example; that's original. Think more creatively.

 

[gemini-saga]

B: Instead of Shadow ball/Aura Sphere > Ice Beam (Rob Laser with Ice propriety)
Side-B: PsyWave (Ray gun effect with ROB Final Smash laser animation)
Up-B: Zelda (agree)
Down-B: Thunder Wave stun enemy like ZSS but without damage

 

[bobson]

This whole discussion of "we'll give him Wolf's fair and Lucas' nair" is kind of dumb when you realize that Project SA will be able to just recreate his old moveset without any of this moveswapping stuff. The real argument, as I see it, should be on new things in Brawl, like his tripping animation, final smash, and whether or not to replace Confusion with something worthwhile.

Edit: Also all of Mewtwo's psychic moves should do 2x damage and knockback to Ivysaur. :3

 

[Shadowmaster9000]

This idea is awesome and it would be cool if it worked.
The best would be if we could make new animations to make them look more like Melee but I think that is unbelievable hard to do.

But I think Mewtwos down B wasn´t really useful. What about something like that:

Lol that's what I think Mewtwo's Final Smash should look like.

A barrier move could also be very useful competitively. You could make it somewhat like Wolf's down B, only change the graphics slightly to look more orb like, deals no damage, but can knock the opponent away far but can't be held down. It would make it useful as a spacing tool (And still maybe reflect projectiles that can harm people XD).

 

[SuSa]

What Shadowmaster said just made me happy.

Seriously, just like the first 7 frames of Wolf's Down-B, no damage, slightly more knockback, reflects projectiles, invincibility, has end lag so it can be punished enough... but how would you fix the animation?

 

[VietGeek]

This whole discussion of "we'll give him Wolf's fair and Lucas' nair" is kind of dumb when you realize that Project SA will be able to just recreate his old moveset without any of this moveswapping stuff.

Reading the FAQ, it says it'll be able to borrow collision bubbles and damage from elsewhere, but even movesets themselves might not be possible, as you'll have to edit the motion files in the .pac.

So the discussion is somewhat pointless either way since PSA doesn't look like it'll be able to do such a thing on its own yet.

But hey, sets up framework for the future mirite.

 

[bobson]

Reading the FAQ, it says it'll be able to borrow collision bubbles and damage from elsewhere, but even movesets themselves might not be possible, as you'll have to edit the motion files in the .pac.

Well, we're not getting Mewtwo unless we have model and animation hacks anyway. I don't know about you, but I'm not settling for some Lucario texture hack.