Project Mewtwo- Mewtwo v1.00 - WHOA VERSION JUMP. Moveset complete! Touch-ups begin!

[DarkDragoon]

Hey Guys I resently Recorded all of Roy's Voice Clips From Melee with My Capture Device and Converted them to WAV Format and I was Wondering If You Guys wanted me to do the same for mewtwo

o.O Whoa. Sure. Save me the trouble.
-DD

 

[_Bankai_]

Awesome...once PW finds a way to get custom sfx in without replacing music, we'll be even closer to an authentic M2 (though Lucario sounds pretty frickin awesome already...I'd say the voice clips are more important for Roy XD)

 

[DarkDragoon]

Awesome...once PW finds a way to get custom sfx in without replacing music, we'll be even closer to an authentic M2 (though Lucario sounds pretty frickin awesome already...I'd say the voice clips are more important for Roy XD)

Yea, all we really need is a sinister laugh and heavy-breathing noises and Lucario and Mewtwo are already pretty similar.

but hey, a full set couldn't hurt.
-DD

 

[netrunui]

that's awesome BlazeKnight!

 

[The Immortal Sir NZ]

It should be killing people at 120% to 140% (fast fallers) with GOOD DI. Jigglypuff at like 95%.

Just give it low base, high growth.

I know im late to reply to this but...
In Melee, Jiggs died around 96 with perfect DI.
Fastfallers died at around 160 with perfect DI.

Is the gap between floaty and fastfaller been closed to a smaller margin in Brawl +?

 

[DarkDragoon]

I know im late to reply to this but...
In Melee, Jiggs died around 96 with perfect DI.
Fastfallers died at around 160 with perfect DI.

Is the gap between floaty and fastfaller been closed to a smaller margin in Brawl +?

Yea, but not that much.
There probably isn't a combination I'm willing to come up with that would work like Melee's anyways. I'll just make it so its average killing power is 120%~140%.

-DD

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Lol at people thinking this was SSB4 and thinking about FS. XD

Anyways, yeah, a full sfx set would be beast, especially for confusion. Also, I haven't noticed anything that I haven't already mentioned yet, but I will get to work with dry matchups and stage advantages.

 

[DarkDragoon]

Hm....
I got a PM from Pharrox.
-DD

 

[superyoshi888]

HYPEHYPEHYPEHYPEHYPEHYPE!

Needs moar hype. How has progress on the fthrow been going? (Sorry if it seems like I'm rushing you with that throw or anything. Just curious.)

 

[DarkDragoon]

HYPEHYPEHYPEHYPEHYPEHYPE!

Needs moar hype. How has progress on the fthrow been going? (Sorry if it seems like I'm rushing you with that throw or anything. Just curious.)

Haven't touched it!
Wednesday is my work day, since I only have one class at 2:30. Lemme just finish up some homework and be on my way.
-DD

 

[Me_Aludes]

I've played a bit with the lastest .pac . Here's my input:

-Uair is OP. It kills, gimps, has a great hitbox and can be used along with DJC for everything. Needs some kind of nerf.




Yep, I know you already knew that lol
-DThrow needs less BKB. It was a combo and techchase move in Melee, now it hardly has any use :S
-Last hit of Nair needs some knockback.
-Jab's third hit doesn't work right. Sometimes they finish behind you and are able to punish you. Needs some kind of change, so it's not punishable on hit.

Overall, good work. Once Pharrox' converter is out this will be amazing.

 

[netrunui]

speaking of pharrox and models, would it be easier to transfer the mewtwo model from the new pokemon wii games, or to make a model from scratch?

 

[_Bankai_]

Hm....
I got a PM from Pharrox.
-DD

Oh cool, you probly got invited to test the upcoming Beta model importer. Good luck wit dat :D

 

[Indigo Jeans]

F8CK YEAH DD.

/hype

Anyways, regarding Nair having L=last hit knockback: NO
This is a damage racking and combo move. Giving it knockback would completely defeat those purposes. It's fine as it is.

 

[SvartWolf]

wow.. i haven't posted since brawl came out still...

This is HIGHLY relevant to my intereses... even if i played a good share of mewtwo on melee, i'm not here to discuss movesets or balance...

i want to create... create him and give him LIFE!! MUAHAHAHAHHAHA

anyways.. i'm interested on creating a mewtwo model from scratch, rig him and animate him... which would complement enormously this project : )

anyway, i'm familiar with 3d max and other pograms, but i never ever have messed with brawl files, so i would love to know:

Engine polygon limit and character polygon standards
brawl characters texture sizes and resolutions
models file format
animatons file format
how the engine manage the bones and animations

does anybody know where i could get that info?
thought.. even if you don't need it i still would modelling and rigging a mewtwo, since it would be some great practice

the community already done nintendo's work releasing a very welcomed balance patch.. but we still can take some steps further >:D

 

[Jerome]

How bout instead of confusion he uses psychic? Why should he have a weak psychic move like confusion anyways? That move didn't even seem useful to me.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

1: Give a description.

2: "All Moves Completed!"

>__>;

 

[smashmaniac2008]

Can't wait for Model Hacking

 

[Kink-Link5]

Uair does need a large knockback reduction. It kills at like 70% lol.

Using framespeed changes, you could give him back his regular dair using the animation you have now, since the super fast spike/gimp also tends to be a little too overly usable.

Confusion is perfect.

Teleport is perfect also.

Disable needs to have that small bit of lag before it shoots out to give it the same "flow" it had when canceling jump momentum with it in Melee, and it should reach forward just a tiny bit more.

Double Jump needs to start out slow, then speed up as Mewtwo ascends.

Other than these qualms (which I suspect have been brought up before) this is really really smooth and feels a lot like Mewtwo should!

 

[netrunui]

$10 says DD is testing the beta right now

 

[D.B.K.]

$10 says DD is testing the beta right now

You're on.

*10hypes*

 

[DarkDragoon]

wow.. i haven't posted since brawl came out still...

This is HIGHLY relevant to my intereses... even if i played a good share of mewtwo on melee, i'm not here to discuss movesets or balance...

i want to create... create him and give him LIFE!! MUAHAHAHAHHAHA

anyways.. i'm interested on creating a mewtwo model from scratch, rig him and animate him... which would complement enormously this project : )

anyway, i'm familiar with 3d max and other pograms, but i never ever have messed with brawl files, so i would love to know:

Engine polygon limit and character polygon standards
brawl characters texture sizes and resolutions
models file format
animatons file format
how the engine manage the bones and animations

does anybody know where i could get that info?
thought.. even if you don't need it i still would modelling and rigging a mewtwo, since it would be some great practice

the community already done nintendo's work releasing a very welcomed balance patch.. but we still can take some steps further >:D

omg. Please do it =D!
Just get me a base model, if you want I can send you some .dae files from Brawl for you to look at and get an idea of what to create.

Get at me on MSN/AIM.


Also, I haven't tested it yet, still waiting to get it from Pharrox.

-DD

 

[netrunui]

couldn't you use the model from pokemon wii games ex. pokemon battle revolution?(when the model hacking is possible)

 

[netrunui]

though I would really enjoy seeing SvartWolf 's model

 

[DarkDragoon]

Yea, I need a T-posed model probably.

So Wolf's would be nice.

-DD

 

[netrunui]

did they reformat the website?

 

[BlazeKnight]

Ok I've Recorded All of Mewtwos Voice Clips From Melee With my Capture Device and Converted them to MP3 Heres the Download link http://www.mediafire.com/?ynfzdtonmtz

 

[BlazeKnight]

Oh BTW DD Have You Considered Changing Lucarios Victory poses to be more Silmar to mewtwos? The Reason I bring this up is because Wander Resently made a few Victory Poses for Roy and they look Pretty Good. Heres My Sugestion For one of Mewtwo's Victory poses You Could use his Forward Smash With Some Frame Speed Modes it Would Look Really Cool Not to sure about the others Though Tell me what you think of my Idea

 

[DarkDragoon]

Oh BTW DD Have You Considered Changing Lucarios Victory poses to be more Silmar to mewtwos? The Reason I bring this up is because Wander Resently made a few Victory Poses for Roy and they look Pretty Good. Heres My Sugestion For one of Mewtwo's Victory poses You Could use his Forward Smash With Some Frame Speed Modes it Would Look Really Cool Not to sure about the others Though Tell me what you think of my Idea

Well first I think you should edit your previous post instead of double posting.

Secondly I haven't worked with victory poses yet because Roy is farther down the road than Mewtwo is.

Thirdly if I were to do one, it would be a sped up SideTaunt until the end, where it would stall out for a while.

-DD

 

[netrunui]

Is my computer the only one viewing this, or is everyone's page changing from black to white after hitting refresh?

 

[DarkDragoon]

Is my computer the only one viewing this, or is everyone's page changing from black to white after hitting refresh?

Its everyone, but this isn't the topic to discuss it, thank you.
-DD

 

[_Bankai_]

<-- Eagerly awaiting an update, DD :-D

 

[netrunui]

sorry about last post, also I can't believe you get to test the beta

 

[DarkDragoon]

Someone run through the last few pages and make a check list of things that I need to do based on my posts.

Then I'll run through it and make sure I've done them, and release sometime this weekend.
-DD

 

[netrunui]

fthrow
nair
bair
dtilt
dthrow
dsmash
fair

I'll find more

additionally
disable
confusion against G&W may cause graphical problems

 

[_Bankai_]

I've played a bit with the lastest .pac . Here's my input:

-Uair is OP. It kills, gimps, has a great hitbox and can be used along with DJC for everything. Needs some kind of nerf. Yep, I know you already knew that lol
-DThrow needs less BKB. It was a combo and techchase move in Melee, now it hardly has any use :S
-Last hit of Nair needs some knockback.
-Jab's third hit doesn't work right. Sometimes they finish behind you and are able to punish you. Needs some kind of change, so it's not punishable on hit.

Overall, good work. Once Pharrox' converter is out this will be amazing.

F8CK YEAH DD.

/hype

Anyways, regarding Nair having L=last hit knockback: NO
This is a damage racking and combo move. Giving it knockback would completely defeat those purposes. It's fine as it is.

Uair does need a large knockback reduction. It kills at like 70% lol.

Using framespeed changes, you could give him back his regular dair using the animation you have now, since the super fast spike/gimp also tends to be a little too overly usable.

Confusion is perfect.

Teleport is perfect also.

Disable needs to have that small bit of lag before it shoots out to give it the same "flow" it had when canceling jump momentum with it in Melee, and it should reach forward just a tiny bit more.

Double Jump needs to start out slow, then speed up as Mewtwo ascends.

Other than these qualms (which I suspect have been brought up before) this is really really smooth and feels a lot like Mewtwo should!

Hmmmm, if we were to buff aerials, I'd say only increase damage by maaaaaybe 2-3%, but don't increase knockback. Aerial combos is where Mewtwo will and does get all his damage racking.
-Dair should be his low percent aerial killer, since the spike hitbox extends maybe 1/4 of a Stage Builder block below his feet.
-Fair and Bair should start killing around 100-120%, so you can implement them into combos.
-Uair shouldn't really be a kill move. This is your move to start combos with, as it deals great hitstun, it's quick, it has almost zero landing lag if timed well, and it juggles ****-INGLY. I'd say nerf KB, buff damage by 1-2%.
-Nair seems to have been nerfed in effectiveness. It's harder to get all the sparks to connect than it was in Melee. The reason is that Mewtwo's first jump seems to be just slightly too short to get it to follow up UThrow at low percentages, and it's not worth to DJ for. To fix this, I'd say either just eeever so sliiiightly boost M2's first jump, or, again, find out a way to make aerials give a slight boost if used at the peak of a jump.

Everything you said I basically agree with, except NAir.

NAir is really different from Melee NAir. Melee NAir had fewer, slower hits. Brawl's NAir is faster and there are like, 2x as many, so buffing the damage output probably won't happen by anything less than .5%.

KB Reduction I'll probably do and make a final flash of 4 hitboxes expel the opponent like I had before, but this time it will be divided into 4 that won't launch vertical.

I'll leave Mewtwo's jumps alone, they're fine as is, and I'll look into making the "extend" part of the jump happen, I think I know how to do it using the current system!



This.
-DD

:D This is what I like!
Jab- *Bows* Thank you, thank you!

Ftilt- Graphics are to show where the hitboxes are, because Lucario doesn't use his fzzking tail.

Dtilt- I was going to extend the range on this move by a bit, and have the tip give some inward KB, increase the rest of the moves KB.

Uthrow- Stronger, yes, slower, I can actually say yes now =D!

Dthrow-Yea, I thought I did it right but it got all wonky on me.

Dsmash and Fsmash- Thank you! I'll keep trying to make DSmash work.

Usmash- =D Thanks~

Nair- Yea, it has one on landing though. I'll add the final aerial hitbox back then @ 30~45 degrees.

Fair- :3 It is weak. I'll be buffing the damage output and adding the slashy sound.

Bair- T~T I'll look into other animations.

Dair- The tip of the toes meteor at a frame or two before or after[probably before] the sideways hitbox comes out. I was just trying to be creative.

-DD

Yea, working throws is really stupid sometimes...I still need to figure out why DSmash fails so badly too...

Confusion *doesn't* do that right now, I'll have that amended, and it will act like his Aerial disable too.

and his up b is doing that? In which case I need to look over all of his landings/ending and make sure they have change action "E" or w/e fall is.
-DD

Quote:
Originally Posted by skstylez View Post
Hey dd, i tested M2 thoroughly and i cant tell how impressed i am! Such a fast time for such a great improvement! I cant beleive u even got DJC to work! Here are my suggestions/ideas:

1. M2 doesnt get the dmg he deserves. Up throw does a mere 5 dmg, i thin it should be 9 to 12. F throw should give most followed by up throw. D throw should prob be weakest and b throw 2nd weakest. shadowclaw, 5 dmg!!? This is absurd . Rest is fine.

I know, I'll get on that those.

2. D smash is ridiculously weak, it barely shoves them! Should be like, better than f smash.

I still have no idea why it keeps doing that to me either. Its starting to piss me off.

3. D throw pushes them too far. It should almost force a tech but closer.

Fixing~

4. Up air is a litle powerful for how little dmg it does. I mean. Its 5x more effective killer than shadowclaw. I dont mind, i sorda like it but it shouldnt have so much power low %.

Its high power was an oversight on my part, I'll be buffing SClaw's damage and lowering the BKB/KBG on UAir.

5. Djc is amazing, but is there a prob in coding it to an extent? Cant djc fast and low to the ground. Like if u jump, jump again, and try to cancel it (in a really fast motion), it will do the full double jump without canceling. so basically, u can't get the djc shorter or as short as m2's short hop.

As long as you're holding the jump button, you will continue with your double jump momentum. I'm using Camelot's DJC code. My version had it cancel on execution of the move, but Camelot's seems more organized.

6. too soon to tell, but my opinion is shadow claw should be faster and not last as long with the hitboxes, also small hitbox and some more range.

7. Down-air is really sloppy. And there is nothing special atm about back air. It has little knockback but too little stun for comboing. It is slow to come out and not fast to finish. It has average+ landing lag. It's just a boring move P. Hope for a new animation too.

Give me a better animation, otherwise I have no plans on changing it, except maybe making the tail for that move, so you can use it for combos. In melee I always used BAir as an edgeguard, and it works fine for me as is for that purpose.

8. ahh, i know i say this a lot but how come shadowball is still not pushing lucario back much ^_^"

Because it doesn't work the way I tried it. I'll work on it some more probably.

9. Lucario is still gaining power for how much % he has. Is there anyway to disable this?

No, only his aura sphere is, which can not be changed at this moment. Every other move, unless I missed one, is static in damage to their respective hitboxes.

10. pleease, helplessness after up b . PLEASE. U know how far/high he can get with up b -> double jump?? In adition, he can ATTACK after!! M2's recovery is OUTSTANDING it even auto grabs the edge which i think he shouldnt even have. If an enemy were to edgehog, m2 has outstanding air mobility and easily can just turn onto ledge. +, the teleport goes so far and is such a safe move that you are not limited to trying to grab the ledge. So please, give me a reason why he should not have helplessness, m2=/=Lucario!!

He doesn't go into a helpless state because of the mobility/tech chase aspect. I will be slowing down his landings from Teleport to the ground, so he will be vulnerable for going to the stage. Also, in Melee, his recovery was outstanding. With proper DI, I could make it back to the stage from [basically] anywhere, as long as I wasn't dead. The idea is for Mewtwo to survive, and he doesn't live forever, hes just hard to gimp. If someone ledgehogs Mewtwo with the right timing, Mewtwo will just go into his fall animation. Mewtwo at this point in time is about the same place on the tier list he was in Melee. Terrible with a few redeeming qualities. Granted everything seems to be inverted, where he has the proper height/weight/size, but now lacks any meaningful ground game, and a weak[damage-wise] aerial game.


Quote:
Originally Posted by *(T.R.D.S.) View Post
Some small tips....

If you do an immediate DJC to Bair/Fair, the hitbox seems to "streak". That is, it'll form a sort of wall, and will ALWAYS be able to hit nearby grounded opponents. This can be done with all his aerials, but it's most useful with Bair and Fair.

That's nothing new. The hitbox is attached to Mewtwo, so it moves with Mewtwo.

Uair is very interesting. It has great autocancel frames, and can hit even a grounded Kirby. To get the autocancel, simply make sure to land sometimes in the opening frames. A good scenario would be UTilt->ACUair->any aerial/UTilt/Smash. I'm thinking Nair and Fair should also have autocancel frames, as they are derived from grounded animations, but I'll have to test it right now.

I'm not sure whats going on with that, but it might be less useful once I adjust the hitboxes and stuff. We'll see.

Something that's been bothering me about Confusion is that it's, well, confusing. What I mean is that I can't consistently use it to reflect projectiles. Do the reflection frames kick in when he waves his hand, or when the Psysparkle appears? It'd be nice if those two animations where synchronized.

It should be at the same time the damage is dealt, so I assume that's the Psysparkle.

One last thing for now: it would be a good idea to do what someone had previouslysuggested, to find some way to make aerials give you a small upwards boost if used at the peak of the first/second jump. I say this because it's nearly impossible to follow up an UThrow at low percentages with Nair, and to get all the sparks to connect. I'm not sure if the boost should be added on the first or second jump. The first jump so you don't DJC, which is what's happening to me, or the second jump, because it won't make much of a difference to people who like to DJC, as there isn't anything to cancel at the zenith of the jump.

I'll experiment with the addition of vertical momentum to a move. It will be easier once I slow his doublejump down...if I can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark twain View Post
Any TBA on when it will be released?

I release new betas as I finish them. I'm taking a short break for a couple days now, letting some tasks stack up...but the good news is that they found a frame speed modifier code, and I'll start working on making everything more balanced smooth.

To do:
- See if slowing down the double jump is possible.
- 3/4 speed on all frames after hitbox on Disable.
- Superspeed after the hitboxes on Ftilt go away to smooth out animation.
- Slow down landing of DAir/NAir.
- Other stuff I said I would do.
-DD


Sorry bout ridiculously long post, but this is the massive collection of comments (missing a few probably <shrug>) that I put together that I thought may help out in putting forth the next release. Cheers!

 

[netrunui]

you put my post to shame, good summary though

 

[DarkDragoon]

-Damage Fix-
1. UThrow [+]
2. Fthrow [+]
3. FAir [+]

-KB Fix-
1.DSmash [+]
2.DThrow [-]
3. UAir [-]

-Timing-
1. Reflect on Confusion [=]
2. Speed of Double Jump [-]
3. Speed of Disable [-]
4. Speed of post-hotbox FTilt [++++++]
5. Landing speed of NAir/DAir [-]

-Etc-
1. Attack DJ Boost

:D See? Not so bad. Thanks for the help you two.
I just took a nap, so I feel terrible. I need to complete a programming lab[15 minutes] and then I'll start working again.
-DD

 

[SvartWolf]

i really hope that in a near future someone manages to fins a way to add characters to the roster withouth having to replace a character... thought probably the game would almost need to be rewrote

i'm a little busy this week... but i probably will start with the model at least the next week, it will be a nice challange, since it will be the first model i will do with a polygon cap (i will try to keep between 6000 and 8000 triangles (which are lucario's and links aprox polycounts) )

i have some renders of a red pyramid head model i finished... but i have to admit that i have learnt a lot between the time i finished that model and now XD

http://svartwolf.deviantart.com/art/Pyramid-Head-Back-128044587
http://svartwolf.deviantart.com/art/Red-Pyramid-Head-128043883

it's not my favorite piece and still have some details i don't like too much but the others are unfinished or are excercises XD. stilll, seems that there is some time

 

[DarkDragoon]

i really hope that in a near future someone manages to fins a way to add characters to the roster withouth having to replace a character... thought probably the game would almost need to be rewrote

i'm a little busy this week... but i probably will start with the model at least the next week, it will be a nice challange, since it will be the first model i will do with a polygon cap (i will try to keep between 6000 and 8000 triangles (which are lucario's and links aprox polycounts) )

i have some renders of a red pyramid head model i finished... but i have to admit that i have learnt a lot between the time i finished that model and now XD

http://svartwolf.deviantart.com/art/Pyramid-Head-Back-128044587
http://svartwolf.deviantart.com/art/Red-Pyramid-Head-128043883

it's not my favorite piece and still have some details i don't like too much but the others are unfinished or are excercises XD. stilll, seems that there is some time

xD Very nice man!
I look forward to seeing the finished Mewtwo!
I'll just make some junk Lucario edit until I get yours.
LOL.
-DD