Project M Social Thread

[JCaesar]

Although I think Olimar's might hit even when it's going to the ledge; I'm not too familiar with his mechanics.

It did in Brawl, and I'm pretty sure it still does in P:M, but who knows how it'll end up.

 

[Rikana]

Hey ryoko. How come you didn't tell me about this new blog post?

 

[Gimpyfish62]

Mwahaha. 10

 

[Xebenkeck]

So can samus, tether the ledge, jump out of the tether and still do a upB, same thing with link? If so BRILLIANT. also Ivysaur would kiss you guys in real life.

EDIT Gimpyfish is still banned *sigh* surprise surprise

 

[Cero]

I was listening to this when I read the blogpost. Needless to say it made it even more epic.

Gurren Lagann's so ****ing epic. Lol.

And so is this mod. Thanks, project M team for all your hard work.

Can I just ask what else needs to be done before we see a demo 2?

If you listen to the Gurren Lagann ost while you guys are working, I bet you could finish the whole god damn game by tomorrow morning.

"Listen up, Simon. Don't believe in yourself. Believe in me! Believe in me, who believes in you!" - Kamina

 

[GHNeko]

Now I can go offstage without fear.

nyor~n

=^////^=!!!

 

[BLARGG]

Gurren Lagann's so ****ing epic. Lol.

And so is this mod. Thanks, project M team for all your hard work.

If you listen to the Gurren Lagann ost while you guys are working, I bet you could finish the whole god damn game by tomorrow morning.

"Listen up, Simon. Don't believe in yourself. Believe in me! Believe in me, who believes in you!" - Kamina

For the Project:M dev team are those that will pierce the heavens....
WHO THE **** DO YOU THINK THEY ARE?!?!?!

 

[Hiper]

Epic news! Great work there.

 

[kaizo13]

lol the one time I leave this thread for more than a day this happens...... great job~

question about the tether code tho, what is this "auto jump"?
how exactly does it work and why not be able to jump on command ala Melee?

it would vastly help tether characters since they could simply tether>insta-jump>AD onstage

(simply speculating as i don't know how the code works)

 

[hotdogturtle]

I think it means the same action as pressing Jump when you're hanging on a ledge. Normally pulling up the tether makes you grab onto the ledge like normal, but if the ledge is occupied, this seems to go straight to the jumping action.

 

[Yeroc]

Yes, only not as high. Think melee tethers. You're hanging there, and when you reel in you get a little hop up.

 

[hotdogturtle]

Wait, but you still reel all the way up to the ledge level, right?

 

[Yeroc]

Yes .

 

[Jonny Westside]

Ah nice, so Samus, Link, and Toon Link also get this tether enhancement even though they have other options for recovering? I'm assuming only the tether dependent characters receive this buff. Also, will Sheik's metal chain tether be restored? Or will it be left out. Thanks

 

[Shadic]

This is universal for tethers.

Sheik will never get her Tether back.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

What? Tether's are Brawl styled AND don't suck? How is this possible?

 

[standardtoaster]

Today is The Big House. I will try to get as many matches and different players trying P:M as possible.

 

[hotdogturtle]

Oh right, I forgot about the normal recovery characters who also have tethers. This might open up some new options for them (although Link's/TL's/Lucas's are pretty short so you probably wouldn't use them against an edgehogger).

 

[GP&B]

What? Tether's are Brawl styled AND don't suck? How is this possible?

Brawl Tethers no longer occupy ledges so they have similar protection against edgehoggers like Melee's grapples do. Only thing they're missing is length (on Z-button Tethers) and the ability to latch to walls (something that at this point isn't as big of a deal even though it would still be amazing to have).

 

[SuperHappyCow]

Also, on Ledge Occupancy:

I like the idea that the occupancy lasts as long as the player is physically, and visibly on the ledge. It should not be reverted to Melee, simply because it was that way in Melee.

Consider if it were the reverse. If in Melee the ledge occupancy was like Brawl's, and Brawl's was like Melee's? There would be no question now as to which to implement, because the non-visually coherent ledge occupancy does not make sense.

Keep it VBrawl, or at least make the recovery visually match the character. That is key.

I think the argument that "X should be kept because that's how it's always been" should never be seriously considered.

So much so, that it's actually a well known logical fallacy.

The entire game is different. If someone would stop playing PM because the occupency is inherited from Brawl he should unplug his controller and leave the moment someone picks Charizard or uses a buffed character.


The real, complete problem with ledge guarding is that it places the responsibility of action on the person who is guarding the ledge, rather than the person recovering. There are a variety of ways most characters can execute the order of their recovery, but it's finite because of the recovery fall and highly its predictable nature. For the person defending, there's a whole host of things that can be done, be it jumping off the ledge and engaging, projectiles, tilts, and stage spikes. Resorting to ledge hogging as such an easy way to secure a kill mocks the competitive nature of the game, by providing a very reliable, low risk, and easy to execute way to finish.

In my opinion, if you are so eager to prevent someone from recovering, you should be willing to engage in an aerial battle or become more effective at ledge hogging to secure precious kills. This creates more player interactivity, rather than cheap, throw away finishes.

2. Some people think this is a small issue, but I think matching it to the animations is an important game design element. Visual cues are extremely important in game design. Brawl's attempt at matching the animations failed, because it leaves ledges open immediately upon crossing the plane of the stage, which can make it look like you grab while the other person is still on it. I'd say about 10 frames AFTER the animation looks like it's off the ledge would be about right for the ledge to look grabbable. Yes. I said grabbable.

I mean, in terms of good game design, it'd just be better to visually see that the ledge is open than to judge it by whether or not the other person's animation has ended. This is probably more important for the person doing the edgehogging, because you don't want them to have the reaction "what! I was clearly still on the ledge! You should have died!" I think that would be what makes a melee player unsatisfied, not whether it's melee exact.

This.

Imagine if everyone's hit boxes lasted 10 frames after the limb or weapon visually passed the point of collision?
It would be awesome to actually be having a analogous discussion to this one in bizarro SmashBoards. "it doesnt make sence but dosnt everything i melee not makeded sense?"

 

[Juushichi]

Toaster and Monk, I'm sorry guys. I was almost able to come last minute since more C-bus people came but money problems and plans kept me out.

;-; Sorry guys.

 

[standardtoaster]

Ma n :<

 

[Sinji]

http://www.twitch.tv/peefsmash

please watch

 

[Yeroc]

Streaming PM all day:

http://www.twitch.tv/yerocxx

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

Sinji, please don't advertise non-PM streams. Thanks.

 

[Deleted member]

Great progress, but I gotta say that this is only a band aid towards making Melee's ledge system.

I think though that this (ability to auto sweetspot ledge from anywhere w/ tether) combined with Melee tether system would be very versatile for characters who are 100% tether recovery dependent.

If the auto sweet spot tether had a trade off compared to manual tether placement in Melee, you could attempt to have both recoveries coexist on one character for a complex tether recovery system with mixups.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=23322&Moderated=All&facebook=true

The OHC is contagious!

 

[Virum]

http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=23322&Moderated=All&facebook=true

The OHC is contagious!

Blame me for that XD Though in all fairness, I only replicated the concept, not the exact coding. I was developing this with my own OHC system that doesn't require P:M codes and our friend and crazy DBZ fanatic MarioDK decided that he was going to use this system I constructed for EVERYTHING o_o

This is also why I personally haven't been doing too much as regards to P:M. I'll get back into the groove though.

 

[hotdogturtle]

Also, on Ledge Occupancy:

I like the idea that the occupancy lasts as long as the player is physically, and visibly on the ledge. It should not be reverted to Melee, simply because it was that way in Melee.

Consider if it were the reverse. If in Melee the ledge occupancy was like Brawl's, and Brawl's was like Melee's? There would be no question now as to which to implement, because the non-visually coherent ledge occupancy does not make sense.

Keep it VBrawl, or at least make the recovery visually match the character. That is key.



So much so, that it's actually a well known logical fallacy.

The entire game is different. If someone would stop playing PM because the occupency is inherited from Brawl he should unplug his controller and leave the moment someone picks Charizard or uses a buffed character.

Nobody (well, ok, a few people, but not that many) is saying that "we should make it Melee style because that's how it was in Melee". More people are saying "we should make it Melee style because Melee style makes more sense than Brawl style".

And others are saying "Melee style and Brawl style both don't make sense, so we should make a new system that makes more sense".

Also, I believe that you're the only one who wants to keep it purely Brawl style.

 

[Ecks]

Hey guys how about making it so you can choose whether to ledge roll or to ledge jump after the tether? like if you press L or R after tether you auto roll instead of jumping.

 

[Yeroc]

Dr. PP is currently on the stream, and might be playing more later on after the Melee tourney is over.

 

[SuperHappyCow]

Nobody (well, ok, a few people, but not that many) is saying that "we should make it Melee style because that's how it was in Melee". More people are saying "we should make it Melee style because Melee style makes more sense than Brawl style".

And others are saying "Melee style and Brawl style both don't make sense, so we should make a new system that makes more sense".

Also, I believe that you're the only one who wants to keep it purely Brawl style.

There were a decent number of people. I know, I read the entire discussion just before posting that. Every time I talk about ledges you pretend my only counter argument is that the other argument doesn't make sense(which it doesn't). You don't have to keep trying to correct my points. Its okay, I can read.

The timing should be changed simply so that it's visually appropriate, not to a 75/25 ratio, or something to appease both groups.

Half way between something that makes sense(or attempts to), and something that's completely visually incoherent and crazy, is still something that's at least visually incoherent and crazy.

Barnes: Let's kill all of the villagers! YES.
Elias: Let's kill...none of them?
Barnes: Okay, okay. Let's kill some of them.

Again, if both games had reversed the ledge grabbing and occupancy code, we wouldn't even be discussing whether to keep it Brawl or not.

 

[CORY]

after watching some stuff on streams with zamus, i was wondering if it would be feasible (or desirable...) to separate her up/side b into a recovery and non recovery versions, so that she could do one early or somesuch to clear the ledge, then do the actual recovery version.

 

[rjgbadger]

after watching some stuff on streams with zamus, i was wondering if it would be feasible (or desirable...) to separate her up/side b into a recovery and non recovery versions, so that she could do one early or somesuch to clear the ledge, then do the actual recovery version.

If I understand you correctly we don't need anything like this because the P:M team recently fixed this issue. Ledges don't need to be empty to grab them with a tether; the tether nstead still grabs the edge and you jump up (like a melee tether when you press A).

 

[hotdogturtle]

I think he wants to be able to use up/side-B as an attack next to the ledge without automatically grabbing it.

 

[Zef]

so uhhh

SNAKES FMSASH ****IN ***** BRO

 

[GHNeko]

LOL @ ZEF.

hahahaha.

 

[FireBall Stars]

I get the reasoning for changing the function of Sonic's dsmash, but I'm not crazy about the animation change. I know practically every one of Sonic's moves is a spindash, so maybe it's for variety, but the kicking one seems so generic. Like Mario & Luigi's.

The kicking one is canon from sonic battle and is called "Sonic Flare". Although the PM version is more like Double Sonic Flare.

 

[Rikana]

So dr.pp didnt try out p:m?

 

[JCaesar]

He was on the stream.