Project M Social Thread

[Mattnumbers]

Due to what I've said about LO not increasing potential I'd like to let it be known that I don't think making it character specific is necessary. Since it doesn't actually improve the character it should not be used to help balance them.

 

[PEEF!]

nothing to see here

 

[humble]

Peef is streaming pizza: http://www.twitch.tv/peefsmash

There may be RAM involved.

 

[Haloedhero]

Due to what I've said about LO not increasing potential I'd like to let it be known that I don't think making it character specific is necessary. Since it doesn't actually improve the character it should not be used to help balance them.

Again, I have to agree with Matt#s. It shouldn't be used for character balance.

Although, I think there are two good reasons not to make it the same for all characters.

1. Making it character specific adds, admittedly to a small degree, an element of knowing your character. You have to know how much leeway you have in terms of timing based on your character. I think that should be preserved.

2. Some people think this is a small issue, but I think matching it to the animations is an important game design element. Visual cues are extremely important in game design. Brawl's attempt at matching the animations failed, because it leaves ledges open immediately upon crossing the plane of the stage, which can make it look like you grab while the other person is still on it. I'd say about 10 frames AFTER the animation looks like it's off the ledge would be about right for the ledge to look grabbable. Yes. I said grabbable.

I mean, in terms of good game design, it'd just be better to visually see that the ledge is open than to judge it by whether or not the other person's animation has ended. This is probably more important for the person doing the edgehogging, because you don't want them to have the reaction "what! I was clearly still on the ledge! You should have died!" I think that would be what makes a melee player unsatisfied, not whether it's melee exact.

 

[Shell]

New blog post, guys.

http://www.smashmods.com/

Enjoy!

 

[JCaesar]

The hype train keeps on rolling...

 

[Strong Badam]

chugga chugga chugga chugga choo choo

 

[UltiMario]

*clap clap*

Looks like one ledge discovery lead to the next.

 

[Ecks]

In that Zamus picture, won't they go through each other when they're hanging by the tether?

Anyway, great job guys!

 

[drsusredfish]

I cant stop smiling after seeing that bog post

 

[ValTroX]

Meh, the tether ledge occupancy turns a bad recovery into a REALLY good one, I mean, come on guys, it already has auto sweet spot :/

 

[jalued]

Meh, the tether ledge occupancy turns a bad recovery into a REALLY good one, I mean, come on guys, it already has auto sweet spot :/

not really, it seems like if someone is holding onto the ledge, they cannot snap onto it, so will instead jump meaning they are vulnerable to being hit.

Seems like a nice midpoint between melee and brawl tethers (as long as melee tethers are not possile to code) and is necessary when combined with longer LO

If im thinking corectly the thether user wont have any invincable frames like the ledge graber so the ledge graber may still has an advantage. if the auto ledge hop from the tehther doesnt give inicable frames then it should be fine. the ledge graber can punish from there

plus that^

 

[drsusredfish]

Meh, the tether ledge occupancy turns a bad recovery into a REALLY good one, I mean, come on guys, it already has auto sweet spot :/

If im thinking corectly the thether user wont have any invincable frames like the ledge graber so the ledge graber may still has an advantage. if the auto ledge hop from the tehther doesnt give inicable frames then it should be fine. the ledge graber can punish from there

 

[drsusredfish]

In that Zamus picture, won't they go through each other when they're hanging by the tether?

Anyway, great job guys!

If multiple links wall tethered the same spot in melee wouldn't it do the same thing.

 

[GP&B]

Wow, just ate my own words over tether recoveries. This will be a great substitute if Melee grapples never come along.

And yeah, performing a successful tether does not give you invincibility frames. It's the ledgegrab that does.

 

[ValTroX]

ah yes, somehow i didn't read the explaining paragraph:

"What happens if the tether character pulls towards the ledge while the other character is still on the ledge? Instead of pulling up onto the ledge, they'll do a ledgejump instead!"

My bad guys, it's the BEST solution I can think of .

Edit: I think what confused me was the Ivy photo, it doesn't seem like Ivy is gonna jump out of tether.

 

[Stevo]

yea this invalidates the tether recovery argument for non-melee LO.
I'm still slightly in favor of non-melee LO though.

great work PMBR

 

[GP&B]

I didn't think of that. Tethers now have close to the same kind of strength against LO that Melee grapples did.

Overall good stuff to see.

 

[drsusredfish]

This must be the tether thing peef hinted at last night or this morning rather

 

[drsusredfish]

what happens if the ledege graber drops down while the tether person pulls up. does the tether person still auto jump or do they grab the ledge. This is important since it could put the previous ledge graber at a disadvantage.

 

[GP&B]

I'm going to guess and say that because the ledge is unoccupied, the tether will pull into the ledge.

 

[drsusredfish]

I'm going to guess and say that because the ledge is unoccupied, the tether will pull into the ledge.

ah then if the ledge graber rolls on to the stage, with the new Ledge occupancy, then the tether person would auto jump. hmm new options are opening up. If the tether person used their second jump already i wonder if the auto jump refreshes that.

 

[CORY]

i'm curious:

from the pictures, it would appear that the tether attack itself doesn't hit the person who's hanging on the ledge. is this how it works? or did you just take the screenshots before/after to illustrate the new tether system?

 

[Yeroc]

I don't think that would be the case. Maybe for Olimar, since I remember his up B working a little differently. But the others automatically snap to the edge as if there was no one there, bypassing the hitboxes.

Edit:

ah then if the ledge graber rolls on to the stage, with the new Ledge occupancy, then the tether person would auto jump. hmm new options are opening up. If the tether person used their second jump already i wonder if the auto jump refreshes that.

In my tests, yes they do.

 

[rjgbadger]

ledge occupancy solved, a reasonable tether system, landing detection cracked, what else?

tomorrow: Nana AI solved
next week: Olimar pikmin solved

P:M can do it all.

 

[GP&B]

That's what I was thinking. If the tether attempts to reach a ledge, I'm pretty sure it cancels the hitbox actions.

 

[robosteven]

next week: Olimar pikmin solved

Wait, what's wrong with Olimar right now?

 

[rjgbadger]

i was referencing being able to control the types of pikmin at all times (which to pull, changing order instantly)

 

[hotdogturtle]

Wait, what's wrong with Olimar right now?

Everything.

That's what I was thinking. If the tether attempts to reach a ledge, I'm pretty sure it cancels the hitbox actions.

Yeah, even in Brawl, if the tether is in "ledge-grab mode", it doesn't have a hitbox. It's most noticeable with ZSS's tethers, since they have the biggest visual difference between the attack and the tether. Although I think Olimar's might hit even when it's going to the ledge; I'm not too familiar with his mechanics.

 

[Akuma2120]

Shanus, did you get my message?

If the answer's no it's fine, no big deal, but my computer resets the internet connection every minute, so I always have trouble sending e-mails and messages on facebook so it might not have gotten through

 

[Shadic]

Shanus is out of town at the moment.

 

[rjgbadger]

did you guys make pikachu able to wall jump? i watched a severely outdated video where he did, and was wondering its consistency.

 

[Ecks]

Pikachu has been able to wall jump since Brawl.

If multiple links wall tethered the same spot in melee wouldn't it do the same thing.

Probably lol. I was just wondering.

 

[rjgbadger]

so he still can wall jump, opposed to the melee counterpart not being able to wall jump?

another minor question: has a definite verdict occured with Sonic's usmash and dsmash? i know a while ago there was a fox style usmash and a mario-style dsmash being debated for kill power, as Sonic only had like two kill moves(fsmash and bair kinda)

 

[drsusredfish]

so are the Ic's going to get the nana auto sweet spot tether were she instantly grabs the ledge . does this count as a tether or a ledge grab? or are you just going to revert back to melees IC upb

 

[Haloedhero]

AWESOME! That is the exact tether system I suggested the other day! It's like you guys read my mind. Couldn't be happier.

 

[Shadic]

another minor question: has a definite verdict occured with Sonic's usmash and dsmash?

We're still using the Dsmash currently, Upsmash is back the VBrawlesque version though.

 

[drsusredfish]

so he still can wall jump, opposed to the melee counterpart not being able to wall jump?

another minor question: has a definite verdict occured with Sonic's usmash and dsmash? i know a while ago there was a fox style usmash and a mario-style dsmash being debated for kill power, as Sonic only had like two kill moves(fsmash and bair kinda)

I think he has his old upsmash back but its alot faster and he still has the mario styled down smash. his fair nair and bair are good kill moves. upair used with upb is a good combo to sky kill type move on lower ceilings any way.I think his fmash is a decent kill move.

 

[Haloedhero]

I get the reasoning for changing the function of Sonic's dsmash, but I'm not crazy about the animation change. I know practically every one of Sonic's moves is a spindash, so maybe it's for variety, but the kicking one seems so generic. Like Mario & Luigi's.

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

I was listening to this when I read the blogpost. Needless to say it made it even more epic.