Project M Social Thread

[curry9186]

Oh I have an idea for the shoulder charge. It goes a set distance at the moment right? What if you made it into a charge up move like Ike's quickdraw? The longer you charge it, the further it goes and the more damage it does.

 

[Sneak8288]

LOL stingers that vid is pretty dumb... no DI for the lose... Ok but here's the deal with wario, dair isn't that serious of a problem and neither is the shoulder charge.. if someone tries to dair you can just walk out of the way and punish, its the same as toon links vbrawl dair. When i played you snap i did it plenty of times and shoulder charge was dumb to you because you used it in a dumb way. People think falco's fair is dumb in melee because they don't know how to use it, the concept is the same. Bike could've stayed in if it were made something more like a falcon kick but shoulder charge isn't bad. His dsmash however needs more end lag. Fsmash is pretty much the same as a shoulder charge fsmash without the armor and a little bit more lag so it isn't as spammable. His new moveset isn't bad and has plenty of good uses and honestly you just must not have been to good at finding them. It does need tweaks here and there but it really isn't bad

 

[Juno McGrath]

3) We know, what do you suggest if we kept Side B? A punch? The SAME Fsmash as Side B? Just an FYI, the only difference for this move is the animation, everything else is the same.

Hmm, okay well if you guys kept Side B the way it is... Hmm. thats a tough one but you have already got a good solution Later in your post

4) How would you code it then? Do you want the bouncing off of walls gone completely? Because that's what's "stopping you" from grabbing the ledge with it. How is this move clunky? Because you can't get your opponent all the time with it or what? You didn't really explain anything here, "clunky" doesn't help fix the move, it tells me nothing.

Some times it arcs, some times it has decent knockback, some times it doesnt do anything. Sometimes it sends you into free fall others it doesnt. Sometimes if you hit someone with it they can just grab you out of it, other times you hit them. I dont know if the hitbox changes as you move or something but I was very confused about this move. i also feel as if warios recovery suffers greatly from this move because of his Weight being so heavy

if you side b and cant up b after you fall just short of the ledge a lot because wario is made heavy.

Would it be a bad idea if bike was only aerial side B? Keeping grounded Side B shoulder charge?

This is actually pretty dern genius, now your speaking my language.

 

[stingers]

LOL stingers that vid is pretty dumb... no DI for the lose... Ok but here's the deal with wario, dair isn't that serious of a problem and neither is the shoulder charge.. if someone tries to dair you can just walk out of the way and punish, its the same as toon links vbrawl dair. When i played you snap i did it plenty of times and shoulder charge was dumb to you because you used it in a dumb way. People think falco's fair is dumb in melee because they don't know how to use it, the concept is the same. Bike could've stayed in if it were made something more like a falcon kick but shoulder charge isn't bad. His dsmash however needs more end lag. Fsmash is pretty much the same as a shoulder charge fsmash without the armor and a little bit more lag so it isn't as spammable. His new moveset isn't bad and has plenty of good uses and honestly you just must not have been to good at finding them. It does need tweaks here and there but it really isn't bad

you have never seen that video? the knee is also staled all the way, its not realistic, it's just a cool looking video.

And whether or not the moveset is bad in your opinion doesn't change that it completely changes Wario's character and playstyle for no reason...existing Wario fans surely won't be too happy with the changes, as we can see from Snap here, but yeah it's whatever, do what you gotta do to make sure this game is fun as possible.

 

[Jim Morrison]

so when are you guys finding this 'landing detection'???

 

[Revven]

Some times it arcs, some times it has decent knockback, some times it doesnt do anything. Sometimes it sends you into free fall others it doesnt. Sometimes if you hit someone with it they can just grab you out of it, other times you hit them. I dont know if the hitbox changes as you move or something but I was very confused about this move. i also feel as if warios recovery suffers greatly from this move because of his Weight being so heavy

Then allow me to explain it, okay?

The further out you go with Side B, the stronger the hitbox is. So, let's say your opponent is right in front of you, if you Side B they'll barely get anywhere because the hitbox is at its weakest when it first starts out. If they are a techroll away, then it will be stronger comparatively because the hitbox gets stronger by the end of the move. You can also cancel the Side B with a crouch (it's a timed crouch, so if you miss the timing for it you cannot do it later in the move) and you can also jump with it in the middle of the move to intercept someone who may be coming towards you aerially.

The move works really well if you understand how it works. I realize it may be a little confusing at first but it's really not at all "clunky" so to speak. The aerial one might be due to the wall bouncing and the recently fixed NASL (which I noticed had an impact on this move grabbing the ledge).

I'd love to keep aerial shoulder charge though... we'll think about the aerial Side B I guess.

 

[Shadic]

Link and ROB were both given buffs to areas they were weak in unnecessarily in order to promote a more fast-paced playstyle, but whatever.

Link was a combination of a tad bit of his Brawl self, while being transitioned mostly to how he was in Melee. A good amount of his hitboxes are taken straight from Melee, and the rest was done from feedback from Melee players. (Such as Skler) He's gotten almost nothing but positive feedback from those who have played him, and the complaints are something we are not technically skilled enough to change, at the moment.

Our goal is to have Brawl characters transition seamlessly into the Melee environment. Part of those changes will consist of changing how Brawl exclusive characters play. We do not have an obligation to keep playstyles of specific characters from Brawl intact. However, we will do our best to make sure that they will play in a fun, competitive manner that fits into the "Melee feel." If you just want to play a Brawl character exactly how they are, go play Brawl - Project M isn't for you.

 

[Sneak8288]

you have never seen that video? the knee is also staled all the way, its not realistic, it's just a cool looking video.

And whether or not the moveset is bad in your opinion doesn't change that it completely changes Wario's character and playstyle for no reason...existing Wario fans surely won't be too happy with the changes, as we can see from Snap here, but yeah it's whatever, do what you gotta do to make sure this game is fun as possible.

I've seen the vid a really long time ago and i know it was staled.. i just thought it was a bad idea to use it saying it juggle into each other.. that like getting a vid with falco uptilting fox over and over in training mode saying it comboed lol

 

[stingers]

Link was a combination of a tad bit of his Brawl self, while being transitioned mostly to how he was in Melee. A good amount of his hitboxes are taken straight from Melee, and the rest was done from feedback from Melee players. (Such as Skler) He's gotten almost nothing but positive feedback from those who have played him, and the complaints are something we are not technically skilled enough to change, at the moment.

Our goal is to have Brawl characters transition seamlessly into the Melee environment. Part of those changes will consist of changing how Brawl exclusive characters play. We do not have an obligation to keep playstyles of specific characters from Brawl intact. However, we will do our best to make sure that they will play in a fun, competitive manner that fits into the "Melee feel." If you just want to play a Brawl character exactly how they are, go play Brawl - Project M isn't for you.

Alright, let me explain myself because I think you misunderstood me...I never said I wanted to play a Brawl character exactly how they are. The majority of what you said has nothing to do with my point, which is basically that you shouldn't be buffing a characters weak areas for no reason. Talking about your theory of design behind your Link changes is cool and all, but really, that's not important to what I'm talking about...does Link really need that better recovery? Stuff like that.

 

[Sneak8288]

What does any of this have to do with what I said? I never said I wanted to play a Brawl character exactly how they are, what you said is all fluff and has nothing to do with my point (buffing a characters weak areas for no reason)...but yeah I guess what you wrote sounds really cool and all, I like that you tried your hardest to make Link fun and I'm sure he is, but that's like...so random and unrelated.

He was pretty much explaining why he felt like link wasn't a character who's weaknesses were buffed without a reason

 

[Shadic]

If you're going to be extremely vague, expect vague posts in response. If you can't bother mentioning exact moves and changes that Link has had that "buff his weak areas for no reason," then stop complaining to just make yourself feel good.

 

[Laijin]

can't please everyone =\

 

[stingers]

I edited my post in order to reflect that, Shadic. I'd appreciate it if you could respond to that instead of being condescending...I really don't think what I wrote merited such an aggressive tone.

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^What part of Link was buffed "for no reason?"

Link was not a good character in melee and obviously needed some kind of buff. Well there are two ways to buff a character

1. Make their strengths better
2. Make their weaknesses...better

What's wrong with covering up a couple characters' weaknesses in order to buff them exactly? Not all characters have to be super dynamic characters like Fox and Falco. Making a "jack of all trades" character seems perfectly acceptable to me 0_o

edit: Also, Link's recovery being good (I assume you're talking about aerial glide tossing to recover) isn't so much as us buffing him specifically, but rather a general game mechanic helping him more than others. We just haven't NERFED that part of him

 

[curry9186]

Since you guys brought up link, Shadic has the throw angle on Link's boomerang been changed from Brawl+? I've gotten really used to that and I'm just wondering if I'll have to relearn my combos with it.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh. Wario's dair.

Yeah its definitely good, but I'm not claiming any opinion on removing it or that it is overpowered. An objective viewpoint.

I just DD camped it with Falcon and waited to bait the dairs.

In that specific match up Wario's dair is good vs Falcon as his tech roll is slow and Wario would have time to react and use his aerial mobility to dair Falcon again. With a dair on an opponent standing on the ground (in this case tech chased) it sets up immediately for another dair to techchase as well due to cancelling the bounce with another dair.

I don't think it frame traps Falcon or any other character, but its certainly good.

I mean, Marth and many other characters frame trap Falcon into tech chase throw combos and cycle it to the edge to gimp him or to a high percent to kill him. I don't see how Wario's dair would be any different, but I do see the issue with the bounce.

 

[Sneak8288]

Since you guys brought up link, Shadic has the throw angle on Link's boomerang been changed from Brawl+? I've gotten really used to that and I'm just wondering if I'll have to relearn my combos with it.

being that the physics are different, your gonna have to relearn your combos regardless

 

[Shadic]

I edited my post in order to reflect that, Shadic. I'd appreciate it if you could respond to that instead of being condescending

Ironic.

Link's "recovery buff" consists of a relatively marginal increase in the possible horizontal momentum gained on his UpB. It's there because his recovery was impacted heavily by the new tether system, and it's still a mediocre recovery. It was increased from Brawl's original horizontal momentum because it was absolutely terrible. It's not incredibly better than Melee's either, which is what you're acting like.

The exact details of the momentum change weren't something I did, so you'd have to ask Camelot if you want the more technical details.

Since you guys brought up link, Shadic has the throw angle on Link's boomerang been changed from Brawl+? I've gotten really used to that and I'm just wondering if I'll have to relearn my combos with it.

If so, it was before we implemented the SVN system. Basically - I don't think so. You're going to have to relearn Link combos anyways, however. The boomerang is completely different than it was in B+. It also throws significantly father - values I actually need to touch-up a bit.

 

[curry9186]

being that the physics are different, your gonna have to relearn your combos regardless

Ah yes that's true. Weeeell hopefully that won't be too difficult but I imagine it'll take some time.

If so, it was before we implemented the SVN system. Basically - I don't think so. You're going to have to relearn Link combos anyways, however. The boomerang is completely different than it was in B+. It also throws significantly father - values I actually need to touch-up a bit.

That's good to hear. As long as the angle is the same i should be okay. I'll have to apply the physics of course, but if that hasn't changed too much then my boomerang game should adapt pretty well. Thanks.

 

[Stevo]

putting aerial side-b as bike and ground side-b as shoulder doesnt make much sense....
only way to ride the motor bike is while flying.... through the air..... ( I realize you can use it right above ground, but this still seems like a bad solution to me)

As a melee only player, I find the motorbike to be semi-********, but I can understand how some people would want it.

and If the new Wario Dair is too good, they can just nerf it a bit.

 

[Juno McGrath]

putting aerial side-b as bike and ground side-b as shoulder doesnt make much sense....
only way to ride the motor bike is while flying.... through the air..... ( I realize you can use it right above ground, but this still seems like a bad solution to me)

As a melee only player, I find the motorbike to be semi-********, but I can understand how some people would want it.

and If the new Wario Dair is too good, they can just nerf it a bit.

No just the ground side b is bike

Ariel side b is still shoulder

 

[JCaesar]

This thread makes me *sigh*

 

[Revven]

No, I had suggested aerial Side B be bike and grounded side B remain shoulder charge. Anyway, it doesn't matter as it's in discussion is all that matters.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

This thread makes me *sigh*

This thread makes me sadface

Pretty much why I don't post here anymore.

But since I'm here, I agree with Stevo on the half bike/half shoulder charge side B. I really don't see that making too much sense to have two completely different side B moves depending on whether you're in the air or not. Either the bike or the shoulder charge, but not both.

 

[Juno McGrath]

No, I had suggested aerial Side B be bike and grounded side B remain shoulder charge. Anyway, it doesn't matter as it's in discussion is all that matters.

Oh I feel if ground Side b was bike you wouldnt be able to use it for air camping.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Side B wasn't really the problem with air camping. It was the hit and run aerials that really did it.

 

[Sora-kun]

Stupid argument is stupid. Someone will always be dissatisfied no matter what you do. They won't keep wario's new moveset if it proves to not work out.

I only post here.. sometimes ._. it's really not worth it.. and i honestly can't think of anything that would contribute to anything lmao.

 

[Juno McGrath]

Side B wasn't really the problem with air camping. It was the hit and run aerials that really did it.

Triple bike jump certainly helped rofl.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

You couldn't really go around spamming that, and with increased gravity (and presumed height nerf) it wouldn't be that much of a problem.

 

[Juno McGrath]

Yeahhhh.

 

[curry9186]

Didn't Connor say he posted some videos from that tourney he held? I checked his channel but there's nothing there.

 

[Revven]

He said he'd still upload them, they're not up yet.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

He hasn't yet, but he did record some matches and will presumably upload them later.

 

[curry9186]

I hope they come up soon. I like watching his videos. Also has anyone tried using wavebouncing in PM? It requires changing the input on your c-stick so I didn't think many would use it, but I'll ask anyway.

 

[The Phenom]

I hope they come up soon. I like watching his videos. Also has anyone tried using wavebouncing in PM? It requires changing the input on your c-stick so I didn't think many would use it, but I'll ask anyway.

Has anyone tried wavebouncing?

In order to wavebounce you have to be able to air dodge multiple times in the air. Something that which can't be done in P:M. In Project M we can only airdodge once.

Game physics aren't like VBrawl(VanillaBrawl)...get with the program...cough cough...Fail...
----------
CLASS OF 2009!!!

 

[curry9186]

Has anyone tried wavebouncing?

In order to wavebounce you have to be able to air dodge multiple times in the air. Something that which can't be done in P:M. In Project M we can only airdodge once.

Game physics aren't like VBrawl(VanillaBrawl)...get with the program...cough cough...Fail...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53Wix_KsK5g

I meant what this video shows. I guess the correct term would be "b-sticking", but they put wavebouncing in the title as well.

 

[JCaesar]

I hope they come up soon. I like watching his videos. Also has anyone tried using wavebouncing in PM? It requires changing the input on your c-stick so I didn't think many would use it, but I'll ask anyway.

Has anyone tried wavebouncing?

In order to wavebounce you have to be able to air dodge multiple times in the air. Something that which can't be done in P:M. In Project M we can only airdodge once.

Game physics aren't like VBrawl(VanillaBrawl)...get with the program...cough cough...Fail...
----------
CLASS OF 2009!!!

You're both wrong.

To wavebounce, all you need to do is smash the stick back in the first 3 (I believe) frames of a special (works for most specials but not all). B-sticking is just a shortcut, but it's perfectly feasible to do without it. And yes, it's still in P:M.

 

[[TSON]]

In order to wavebounce you have to be able to air dodge multiple times in the air. Something that which can't be done in P:M. In Project M we can only airdodge once.

Game physics aren't like VBrawl(VanillaBrawl)...get with the program...cough cough...Fail

I don't know who told you that. Wavebouncing is a double Breversal.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Turnaround-B - The turnaround in the air that does not alter your momentum. It is performed by pressing in the opposite direction you are facing BEFORE you perform the special.
B-Reverse (aka Reversal-B) - The turnaround in the air that reverses your momentum. It is performed by pressing in the opposite direction you are facing AFTER you perform the special.
Recoil Special (aka Wavebounce) - The reversal of momentum that occurs when you combine a Turnaround-B and B-Reverse. You will face the same direction that you did before.

<lol I have mod powers>

 

[curry9186]

You're both wrong.

To wavebounce, all you need to do is smash the stick back in the first 3 (I believe) frames of a special (works for most specials but not all). B-sticking is just a shortcut, but it's perfectly feasible to do without it. And yes, it's still in P:M.

Awesome. I've been using the shortcut but if you can use it with regular input then I'm going to start learning that.