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Project M Social Thread

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Strong Badam

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For all you haters out there....
Strong Bad says:
*so, do you think Project M can be > melee after it's done?
Amsah says:
*I'm positive
Amsah says:
*Melee is the best game I've ever played, but it was a fluke
*Project M isn't
*It's headed in the right direction with a purpose of becoming the best version of smash ever made
Amsah says:
*I'm confident that it will get there
Amsah says:
*Especially with so many people working on it to make it as good as it can possibly be
Amsah says:
*I'll be honest, I was a little sceptical at first
*Because I absolutely *love* melee, I had this idea in my head that if something's off it's not going to be as much fun (for some reason)
*I haven't been that wrong in quite a while lmao
Amsah says:
* It was a lot of fun and if this doesn't become at least 10 times as good as Melee I'll be surprised :p
 

DarkDragoon

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Amsah is a pretty cool guy eh? Does cool **** and doesn't afraid of anything.

-DD
 

humble

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He did this, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lIcE_-tWv8 which entitles him to say anything. Also I wish I had my sig up to date.
Impressive comeback certainly, though I feel that this statement is incorrect in sentiment. Your statement should be considered upon it's own merits, your speech judged not by it's speaker, but rather it in and of itself. I do not deny that he is a capable player, but that validates play alone, it does not give him authority and knowledge upon other subjects, or the right to assume as such. I have no problem with a Melee player who believes in P:M, and am happy and enthusiastic to hear another fan of the project. But you would do well to read the post before the poster, and do not bias your judgment prematurely; act impartially and without bias towards the source, and instead process the contents. The message, and not the poster, is what is important, and that cannot be stressed enough.


I am glad to hear that he loves it though, any support for this project is appreciated and it's always nice to know that quality melee players are supporting it once more, reinforcing the point that the team is doing a great job, and it already has swayed the minds of many great Melee players and fans, undoubtedly it will continue to do so. Amsah, good to hear you like it!
 

Strong Badam

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Impressive comeback certainly, though I feel that this statement is incorrect in sentiment. Your statement should be considered upon it's own merits, your speech judged not by it's speaker, but rather it in and of itself. I do not deny that he is a capable player, but that validates play alone, it does not give him authority and knowledge upon other subjects, or the right to assume as such. I have no problem with a Melee player who believes in P:M, and am happy and enthusiastic to hear another fan of the project. But you would do well to read the post before the poster, and do not bias your judgment prematurely; act impartially and without bias towards the source, and instead process the contents. The message, and not the poster, is what is important, and that cannot be stressed enough.
What the hell did I just read?
 

humble

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lol humble
Everything you say shall be judged and responded to with lengthy paragraphs. Srs Bsns guys. >:V

Edit:
What the hell did I just read?
Letters arranged into words which then comprise a sentence, that composes a paragraph. Which you just read.

Which was an articulation of my viewpoint because someone made a statement which I felt merited a response, and I stated my personal opinion on the matter.
 

humble

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I think you need a new hobby humble... and a chill pill
Actually, I have many hobbies; Running, Soccer, Reading, Writing, Poetry, Art, Games, Walking, Forums, Hanging out with my friends, etc. I don't really want any more, to tell the truth. :dizzy:

And yes, I recognize that you're post was not especially thought out or intended to be anything other then a support for the validity of the poster, however I felt that it merited response because you stated quite innocuously, that he could say whatever he wanted because he was a great player. You didn't especially think it out or mean anything by it, however I felt that it was worth bringing to attention because it's a belief common on forums that I disagree with. Obviously you were not intending anything other than a casual statement, but I recognized a point in it that I felt strongly about. It may seem like an overreaction, but really, I was not upset or otherwise embattled on the topic- I just saw a point that I held contention with. Nothing personal, and I'm sorry if I offended you.
 

Strong Badam

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And after all that, you used "you're" instead of "your" as possessive. Sorry bro, gg.
 

bleyva

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The message, and not the poster, is what is important
sorry, no matter how good a message may seem, if its coming from someone who plays the game casually it just isnt gonna matter as much as when someone like M2K chimes in.

some sources are just more important than others
 

matt4300

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Another way of putting it is.... The fact that he is such a great player means he knows melee in and out, and has played it ALOT. So his opinion that PM is going to be better than melee means alot more than someone who knows so much less about smash in general.

That and hes pro.... PRO
 

humble

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sorry, no matter how good a message may seem, if its coming from someone who plays the game casually it just isnt gonna matter as much as when someone like M2K chimes in.

some sources are just more important than others
Of course if they make a statement then being able to back it up is important, however if the casual player makes a statement and M2K makes an opposing statement, you shouldn't automatically choose M2K's side because he is a better player; the reasoning and proof behind the statement are what makes it valid, not the source. The source is worth considering at times, for example certainly M2K has experience and obvious capabilities, so investigating his opinion may be worth it due to his success and by extension probable understanding, however he can lend credit to a post, but it must be able to stand on it's own, should it come down to it- Were M2K to post here and state that D3 is bottom tier, many people would disagree, because irregardless of the source, obviously the content must be judged as well, and despite the source, everyone can be just as wrong. I have been ignored before because people believed me to be biased on a subject- they did not judge the contents of the post, but instead the poster. On smashboards, we all enjoy the anonymity of screen names. What relation does the source have to the content? Well, it generated it, but the content should still be able to stand on it's own. Don't read the name, read the post.
 

humble

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Ah for Christ's sake...

Why do I get the feeling this is copy pasta?
:laugh:

Alright, I'll stop with the irrelevant debate. It is definitely important whenever posting, on any boards, but this is neither the time nor place to continue such a discussion.

Let's direct the thread back on (spirit) tracks to the discussion of Link. Without trolling, what are actual ways to improve his game and make him a more interesting character to play in smash? Perhaps draw inspiration from his myriad of titles as a source of ideas on how to improve Link?

Edit: No, I don't need others words to speak my own opinion. Have I ever struck you as the type of person to perform plagiarism? Yes, often my posts are lengthy, however that is no indication of anything other then my ability to draw things out needlessly; understand that without a doubt my words are true and my own. I would not steal from others, I have no need, and enjoy writing my own. Please don't accuse me of plagiarism again, I have done nothing to slight you or indicate as such.
 
G

genkaku

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I would side with M2K because he's cooler, not because he's a better player, haha.

But in the interest of relevancy, I think that a 64 boomerang could do wonders for Link. It seems as if it could push his game into the next level.
 

94teen

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I think just speeding up some of his aerials and tilts should help a lot. Link seems like he's got strong defensive tools, but you have to predict a little to much to apply them. Really, a combination of projectiles and disjointed hitboxes seems like it'd be a reasonable way to control a match.

Maybe making Uthrow a better setup? I'm not terribly familiar with the character, but I'm pretty sure u-throw doesn't setup for anything relevant until high %'s, though I could be completely wrong.

I think buffing Fair would be huge for Link's camping game. Camping with projectiles seems a lot better if link had a good retreating fair as opposed to nair, since fair is disjointed. That plus reasonable kills out of shield seems like a good start for a defensive character.
 

iLink

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Maybe making Uthrow a better setup? I'm not terribly familiar with the character, but I'm pretty sure u-throw doesn't setup for anything relevant until high %'s, though I could be completely wrong.
Uthrow @ low percents

Dthrow @ high percents



Even then, uthrow was still decent especially on fast fallers.
 

humble

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bleyva said:
i'd say Stingers already nailed it on the head with the pew pew sword idea :laugh:
humble said:
Without trolling, what are actual ways to improve his game and make him a more interesting character to play in smash?
...10stingers.
94teen said:
I think just speeding up some of his aerials and tilts should help a lot. Link seems like he's got strong defensive tools, but you have to predict a little to much to apply them. Really, a combination of projectiles and disjointed hitboxes seems like it'd be a reasonable way to control a match.

Maybe making Uthrow a better setup? I'm not terribly familiar with the character, but I'm pretty sure u-throw doesn't setup for anything relevant until high %'s, though I could be completely wrong.

I think buffing Fair would be huge for Link's camping game. Camping with projectiles seems a lot better if link had a good retreating fair as opposed to nair, since fair is disjointed. That plus reasonable kills out of shield seems like a good start for a defensive character.
So you would suggest making Link a campy character, and giving him better defensive tools to augment that? I could see that working in Brawl, however in P:M most everyone will be fast and able to combo the heavy Link, and the speed of play and movement tools means that generally, campy characters will have a hard time keeping anyone out. It works in Brawl because of the floaty weight, slower speed, inability to pressure as well, and amazing defensive options like Brawl airdodge and Brawl powershield, which led to the whole game encouraging defensive play because the risk reward ratio was skewed towards risk and lack of reward, unlike in melee where it tended to reward the risk when you were offensive better.

Link in the smash series was given a sword and a range of tools to utilize, because often in the Zelda games the tools were important to advance, and of course a sword for slaying stuff. Zelda is an adventure series with a focal point of puzzles that need to be solved, often through inventive thinking and creative use of his tools. So how does a character like that translate into the Smash fighting series? Well unfortunately his character was not given much thought when they put him in- he became a simple two dimensional character, a heavy swordfighter with several projectiles. Why not emphasize the creative, unique utilization of his broad range of tools to make him a more complex character? And if so, how could we go about that? (asking for suggestions and ideas)
 

humble

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I wish I could give out rewards to posters like you.
Thank you! I think you're kind words are more then enough, as I have already been rewarded through the experience and stimulation participating here provides. When posting everyone can make a choice to intellectually engage themselves, or pump out smiley's and memes and never benefit from the experience. How you portray yourself is up to you, and I found it quite an easy choice to make, to present myself as I wished. I wouldn't want people to think less of me, or think I was a troll or incompetent, so why would I act as such? Positively engaging people here is a lot more rewarding then simple +1 posts where no content is presented, so I can't understand why more people don't choose to do so. Irregardless, I have rambled once more; thanks for the compliment rPSI, I'll try to live up to it.
 

ClinkStryphart

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I know I haven't posted in a while due to no internet just got it turned back on today. I was just reading a few posts on Link and how to improve him. I would really suggest keeping his B+ AirUpB due to it sends him further and is way better than it was in Melee no offense but Links AirUPB in Melee hell even in 64 were both terrible and even somewhat in Vbrawl.

Since Tethering walls currently is not possible and probably wont be for a long time to come why not just use his Balanced brawl Swordspin hookshot idea. I mean in the end it really does help his return and considering Brawl only allows Thethers for a return to be used only 3times off the cliff i could see it helping alot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuMJhm4bD-s&feature

I would like to see something better for Link I really am tired of seeing him being bottom of the barrel. Again what I asked above is just a suggestion to make him better feel free to shoot it down.

Edit: I just read the post about giving link his 64 run stab Dear god please put that back in. Its a hell of alot cooler and imo useful than the freaking run slash.
 

GP&B

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Link's aerial UpB is definitely worse in Brawl than in Melee. It has almost no horizontal speed compared to even Melee's very small amount.
 

humble

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I know I haven't posted in a while due to no internet just got it turned back on today. I was just reading a few posts on Link and how to improve him. I would really suggest keeping his B+ AirUpB due to it sends him further and is way better than it was in Melee no offense but Links AirUPB in Melee hell even in 64 were both terrible and even somewhat in Vbrawl.

Since Tethering walls currently is not possible and probably wont be for a long time to come why not just use his Balanced brawl Swordspin hookshot idea. I mean in the end it really does help his return and considering Brawl only allows Thethers for a return to be used only 3times off the cliff i could see it helping alot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuMJhm4bD-s&feature

I would like to see something better for Link I really am tired of seeing him being bottom of the barrel. Again what I asked above is just a suggestion to make him better feel free to shoot it down.
Welcome back, glad that you are with us once more. Link as a character I feel could benefit from some major changes to his game play, and I doubt that they planned to nerf his recovery, being that he is already one of the less capable characters.

I would like to point out that the problem for Link extends far beyond his recovery; yes, it's one of his weaknesses, but it's hardly debilitating, and characters like Falco who have just as poor a recovery are fine because the rest of their game is good- Link is not currently anywhere near as good. I really want to suggest changing Link to be more fun to play, to resemble his classic Zelda gameplay. He has hookshot, boomerang, bow and arrow, bombs, all these great tools, that in smash, have been limited to bread and butter projectiles- how could you change these aspects to make him a more technical, more complex, and more utility oriented character?



EDIT:
Stop failing at showing possession if you want to continue posting like that bro...

Erroneous double negative adverbs, hooray!

On another note, Mario + Doctor Mario = a good char.


Oh look, I can post without contributing too!
 

Sterowent

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i know it was a glitch, and i don't think i'd ever seen it used, but at some point way back someone mentioned link getting irregularly huge horizontal distance from his upB after following an AGT. will this be included to some degree, or will it be removed entirely?

this'd give link much more protection when returning from the top right corner. an added bonus is that he's obviously defenseless when he uses it. why, if used correctly, it could even be a risky offstage edge guarding tool.

anyway, yeah, so, will it?

edit: humble, you know there'll be some jokes scattered in. that's especially how things are, hah. he's not makin a joke about characters and the game, so keep cool, man.
 

94teen

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I guess I need to put that into perspective. I didn't mean defensive/campy to the same extreme as brawl. There's still camping to some extent in melee, but it's a little different, at least the way I see it. In melee, camping is really just a way to pressure the other player to approach, so that you can react to their approach and punish it.

I feel like that's the best way to try to make link work. He has some combo tools. Obviously, these should be looked at and buffed appropriately. However, he doesn't really have good approach options. The only way I see to make him work in melee context without significant changes is to adopt a "bait and punish" kind of approach. You use your projectiles to control how players can approach, you had to predict/react to the approach appropriately, and (hopefully) get them up in the air where link's nair/bair/uair are awesome for combos.

To try to use specific examples, I'm kind of seeing pressuring the other player into a bad approach with projectiles, and either shieldgrabbing a shffled aerial or retreating fair to techchase. Once you get a grab, I think Uthrow/Dthrow should set up for combo potential, especially if Fair and Dash attack are buffed as followups.

I really don't know enough about how link plays in melee to provide much else, but from watching a few link mains play, this is one direction I think Link's game could go. It's sort of unique, and requires smart play, but I feel like that's a reasonable expectation considering he's got two good projectiles and disjointed hitboxes. You've got to use projectiles to force specific approaches and counter the approaches appropriately. Link already has the tools to force people to approach, so he just needs better tools to punish bad approaches.

Link getting combo'd and not having answers to shield pressure is a legitimate concern. I think giving him the tools to punish approaches is the best way to deal with combos; if he can predict, the link can avoid the combo and turn a profit on the failed approach. With regards to shield pressure, I think giving him reasonable OOS options is probably the best answer. To be fair, he has a few good options. I've seen UpB, nair, and grab out of shield all used reasonably well. Maybe Usmash could be sped up, so that you can Usmash OOS if someone misses a cancel or spaces poorly?

That's all I've got considering the lack of experience I have with melee link, but on the surface it seems reasonable to me, and wouldn't involve large changes to the moveset, just tweaking the speed/hitboxes.
 
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