Project M Social Thread

[iLink]

Was it changed? I was pretty sure it didn't have that much range.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

I think it hasn't changed since 2.1, but no one really noticed, I do remember someone saying it was negatively disjointed. I'm also looking at it right now in brawl box to make sure and it is disjointed.

 

[Magus420]

Top one is ground bottom is air.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Lol what why does it look completely different when I look at in brawl box?

 

[JOE!]

Looks like my post got buried pretty well already lol

Hopefully those interested got a look? I'll update it more tomorrow and put a link I suppose...

 

[Kati]

Why not put grabboxes... on his hand(s)?

 

[Deleted member]

^Because this is Smash and that would make too much sense

 

[Magus420]

That's pretty common for moving attacks.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Ok this is what I see when I view the move http://i.imgur.com/ghjO6dA.png why is that?

 

[metroid1117]

IIRC, if the hitbox was at Ganon's hands then it would've been unreasonable to deal with. It's the same reason why the hitboxes for Fox and Falco's side+Bs trail behind them.

 

[Magus420]

Those are special hitboxes for hitting targets and stuff since they can't be grabbed.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

That sounds...unnecessary lol, like why is that even a thing? It just makes it really confusing and misleading when you go to look up some frame data stuff with brawl box, and then come to find out the hitbox in question only works in certain situations.

 

[Kati]

But metroid, has it actually been tested? The spacies' side-b is much, much faster, so I don't see how they would share the same reasoning behind hit/grabbox placement.

 

[Magus420]

Brawl wasn't made with BrawlBox in mind =P

 

[metroid1117]

But metroid, has it actually been tested? The spacies' side-b is much, much faster, so I don't see how they would share the same reasoning behind hit/grabbox placement.

I remember the PMBR talking about testing it in this thread, but I wasn't a member at the time. Someone else who was involved with that process should step in to talk about it.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Ugh yeah but these lol hitboxes are really annoying, and its really easy to believe that move is disjointed. There are a lot of situations where it seems it wouldn't beat something out, for example a jab, and then it does. Maybe its because of how he moves during it.

 

[Shadic]

But metroid, has it actually been tested? The spacies' side-b is much, much faster, so I don't see how they would share the same reasoning behind hit/grabbox placement.

Wario's SideB originally was quite disjointed when we made it.

It was stupid.

 

[Vashimus]

Stupid like ... stupid good? We could use some of that.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

No, we need less of that, the less the better imo....especially on wario.

 

[ph00tbag]

I feel like Wario could stand to have something that's stupid good.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Lol he farts on things, that move is pretty stupid good. He doesn't need anything else, plus he is capable of doing the best combo in the game, down air taunt into down b, instant win.

 

[SpiderMad]

Using After Effects to map Ike's bandanna and hair onto Mac in the ending scene of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's nest to accurately describe my feelings for 2.5 Ike is turning out to be kind of hard.

 

[DrinkingFood]

pls finish spidermad I haven't seen that movie but your vids are often pretty hilarious with your subtitles and editing

 

[SpiderMad]

You should kind of watch the movie first lol

 

[`dazrin]

But metroid, has it actually been tested? The spacies' side-b is much, much faster, so I don't see how they would share the same reasoning behind hit/grabbox placement.

We've tested this kind of thing on Wario's sideb, and it was extremely stupid silly. Really took no skill at all.

You're just going to have to have faith in us lol

 

[Kink-Link5]

Hey Food, what kind of amount of anti-ground and other large spacing options could we implement, on the subject of giant, dumb hitboxes?

Spoiler

 

[DrinkingFood]

Characters with swords could easily get something like that, with probably a similar animation to the third slash (downward ofc) of marth's side-b... Characters with long legs could have lingering air kicks that work kinda like CF's ftilt that are also angle up and down in the same way; that would probs work as a good anti-ground. Characters that have psychic powers or w/e have like an infinite number of options for that kind of thing obviously; just have them use their psychic... force in that direction. Melee Mario-esque fireballs/projectiles (if a little less slow to start, act/out of) and generally projectiles aimed down could certainly serve that purpose as well. Since aerial smashes will be a new thing, they could in some cases probably have the property of stalling/slowing the character's momentum while charging (for the ones that can charge, not everyone has to have chargable smashes) for a mix-up from the air to punish attempted landing-punishes, SG Painwheel style.
But essentially, I think angled aerials a la smash's common angled fnormal would be a pretty cool addition, and a lot of the time would serve this very purpose.
Does smash even have any angled aerials in it? O_o

Also that hitbox isn't just dumb, it'd down-right Down's. Same for that outer hurtbox, it's worse than 2.1 charizard's face hurtbox.

EDIT:
If say we were to actually go through with this, would we be able to pull off making it a "fangame" with mostly cameos from smash other fighters? That was kinda why I had an idea in the first place, to pit characters from a lot of the big fighters together with merged mechanics for some serious game-to-game hype and competition. As well as to reimagine the characters to fit into the environment where new mechanics come into play. Like the smash characters with new combo mechanics and aerial mechanics and large movesets, and the other characters with smash's movement, ringout, and knockback growth mechanics. Would kinda serve as an subconscious outlet for hostilities between SBB and the FGC and an easier bridge for players between the two. I imagine it would have to be limited to computer if so, copyright laws are pretty stupid :/

 

[JOE!]

Doesn't Mugen get away with stuff like that fine anyways?

 

[DrinkingFood]

Yeah but like I said when I do stuff seriously I go all the way
reach-out-as-much-as-possible all the way, which isn't possible if you're just working on PC
like Get-this-a-downloadable-game-on-at-least-one-console all the way

 

[bubbaking]

Why not put grabboxes... on his hand(s)?

Oh heavens no! If it's already doing so well, I'm fine, thank you!

IIRC, if the hitbox was at Ganon's hands then it would've been unreasonable to deal with. It's the same reason why the hitboxes for Fox and Falco's side+Bs trail behind them.

[collapse=Falco Phantasm/Fox Illusion]

[/collapse]

And they still manage to clank with everything in the world.....

I feel like Wario could stand to have something that's stupid good.

Lucario could stand to have something that's stupid good.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I feel like Wario could stand to have something that's stupid good.

That's N-Air. It's probably a little too good in its current state, even. It isn't mindless, but it's quite universally useful.

 

[JOE!]

Looks like it's time to give everyone a nairplane + shine

 

[DMG]

Wario Nair is very good, the move hitboxes feel very solid vertically. Like his belly or hands cover him super well lol.

As for giving his Side B more range, the current mechanics of the move imo are good enough already. He gains priority while traveling and can clank/beat out projectiles and attacks based on this. He doesn't need it to "constantly" be good.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I think the range of Wario's aerial Neutral-B and aerial Forward-B could stand to be improved a little, though. He doesn't clank out moves in the first 1/3rd of the grounded form or in ALL of the aerial form of Forward-B because the hitboxes are inside of him instead of even covering the outside.

 

[BrandX]

EDIT:
If say we were to actually go through with this, would we be able to pull off making it a "fangame" with mostly cameos from smash other fighters? That was kinda why I had an idea in the first place, to pit characters from a lot of the big fighters together with merged mechanics for some serious game-to-game hype and competition. As well as to reimagine the characters to fit into the environment where new mechanics come into play. Like the smash characters with new combo mechanics and aerial mechanics and large movesets, and the other characters with smash's movement, ringout, and knockback growth mechanics. Would kinda serve as an subconscious outlet for hostilities between SBB and the FGC and an easier bridge for players between the two. I imagine it would have to be limited to computer if so, copyright laws are pretty stupid :/

When you guys had your idea, my mind was gearing towards more original characters lol

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Well don't those moves kinda even out because of the properties they were given? Like in the case of bite you have such control of the movement of the move that a bigger hitbox would make it a little too difficult to deal with. Command grabs are usually hard to deal with, due to them being unable to be broken out of, and being able to use them in the air.

Also with his tackle, it has the ability to go from ground to air (which if done at the edge you can jump during the middle of it to cover more distance, and then use it again to get back to the stage), you can mix it up by canceling it into a crouch, which has light armor on it, and you can get another mix up by doing a dash grab, which looks exactly like his side b and you can make it last just as long.

These are all strong choices, but when used incorrectly there are heavy consequences, like how side b is so negative on shield, how the crouch is very punishable if not spaced correctly, and that you can be easily hit out of his dash grab, since it doesn't have grab box until you end it.

So to me I feel like those traits that you listed that you feel need to be improved, help balance the move further. It puts more emphasis on a thoughtful usage of the different forms of tackle. To me, the move is a perfect balance between risk and reward, and increasing the range might upset that, at least imo.

Also you already know all of the moves properties reflex, I just listed all that to help my point, and in case someone else didn't know all of that. Also I'm not saying that you're definitely wrong, just throwing in my $0.02.

 

[DMG]

Improving the range on Aerial Side B would probably be fine. The difference in power between a grounded one that's been traveling, and an aerial one is significant enough that you're heavily incentivized to keep it grounded anyways. For Bite though, IDK if it should last longer or have more range, but a tiny little touch would be good. I'd even take a slight nerf on throw knockback/angle out of Bite to balance it a bit if that's what it took.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I was also thinking more along the lines of an original cast and story. There might be some references or inspirations from existing animations, but not to the degree of "THIS CHARACTER IS THE GRAPPLER. HE HAS A 360 DRIVER AND LARIAT."

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Improving the range on Aerial Side B would probably be fine. The difference in power between a grounded one that's been traveling, and an aerial one is significant enough that you're heavily incentivized to keep it grounded anyways. For Bite though, IDK if it should last longer or have more range, but a tiny little touch would be good. I'd even take a slight nerf on throw knockback/angle out of Bite to balance it a bit if that's what it took.

Eh I think its a bit of a stretch to improve the range on it, but I'm saying that because of its usage from the ledge, which in that case it covers a large amount of space. I don't agree with the bigger grab range on bite because its a command grab, and he has such control over the movement of it. If there was a nerf to its knockback angle stuff, I would see the merit in it though.

 

[Vashimus]

I was also thinking more along the lines of an original cast and story. There might be some references or inspirations from existing animations, but not to the degree of "THIS CHARACTER IS THE GRAPPLER. HE HAS A 360 DRIVER AND LARIAT."

And is one of Bubbaking's worst matchups.