abcool
Smash Ace
If you have done it vs Link and Pit do give me tips.
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Project M Social Thread
- Thread starter Project M
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cannedbread
Smash Lord
i honestly do think wario is kind of a mistake and will probably get dat lucas treatment in the next installment.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
You have trouble comboing into a giant explosion all around Wario? Like, dair, nair, uair and U-tilt will all combo into it the same way Jigglypuff combos into Rest.
It can also be used as a lololol MASSIVE edgeguarding option to out prioritize basically any recovery.
It can also be used as a lololol MASSIVE edgeguarding option to out prioritize basically any recovery.
I hope to god not. Lucas is a mess of zipping around awkwardly, while Wario is an accurate interpretation of his canon attributes that happen to not fit quite right how they are currently.
abcool
Smash Ace
I see. I like to save the waft as a last ditch attempt to make a comeback. In that regard it's hella hard to use. Most people would know i want to use it and always Di the right way to avoid it. I guess if i use it when i should instead of saving it, then yeah.
An no Wario is fine the way he is. He just needs to be able to Jump out of the crouchcancel from SB. An have some sort of up tool to keep up with projectile spammers. Charging waft a little faster with everything he eats. In the meantime, he is my main in PM for now. So, i'll continue to grow the character to the best of my abilities.
An no Wario is fine the way he is. He just needs to be able to Jump out of the crouchcancel from SB. An have some sort of up tool to keep up with projectile spammers. Charging waft a little faster with everything he eats. In the meantime, he is my main in PM for now. So, i'll continue to grow the character to the best of my abilities.
cannedbread
Smash Lord
it will happen, i can #feel it
godspeed abcool
godspeed abcool
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
This is something of what the move is, it's an equalizer like Rest or Peach's D-smash, and probably the best in the game, it just needs to be comboed into.
Whenever I use Wario I make it a goal to play extra super homo just so I can build percent while charging down B. If the opponent ends up at a high percent while I am as well, it can be beneficial to kill them by some other means, then take out their next stock early with that giant explosion.
You can tell when wario is trying to do it because he either
1) Has it fully charged and is glowing
2) Isn't pressing buttons when he normally would
or both
I try to not force the waft because it looks obvious to a good player. Also try doing it before it is fully charged, as it has more knockback and isn't as obvious.
1) Has it fully charged and is glowing
2) Isn't pressing buttons when he normally would
or both
I try to not force the waft because it looks obvious to a good player. Also try doing it before it is fully charged, as it has more knockback and isn't as obvious.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Minute-charged waft is also a stupidly large edgeguarding option.
abcool
Smash Ace
I will definitely be trying to find smarter ways to combo into it. Wario is the only character i fully enjoy in the build since everyone else feels either weird or isn't my type of character. Marth is close to his Melee self though, so it was enough to work for matchups i had problems using Wario in.
Perfect Chaos
Smash Master
I heard that it was changed in P:M to be its absolute strongest when fully charged, and not like vBrawl where, for some reason, it's stronger slightly before full. I could be wrong, though. But regardless, it's probably best to always use it before reaching max (unless you go a whole 2 minutes without a good opportunity to use it, but that shouldn't be the case if you play effectively enough and always watch for an opportunity), since it's strong enough without being fully charged to still kill most of the time if used correctly, as well as being less predictable like it has been mentioned before. And, this way, you'll be able to use waft more often in a given match on average, too.
hotdogturtle
Smash Master
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2007
- Messages
- 3,503
The only thing that I would change about the Waft is how if you get hit RIGHT when you start using it, it gets cancelled without hitting anyone but you still have to wait for it to recharge. I don't know if improving it would require super armor or some other workaround, but if you're committing to this rare move that only comes once or twice per match, it shouldn't be wasted that easily, even for a "high risk high reward"-type move.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Frame 1 hitbox would work around what you're saying HDT.
OmegaMuffin
Smash Journeyman
GP&B
Ike 'n' Ike
But that's totally canon because Lucas is awkward in his own game and kind of just runs around the place. Yeah.
Would entirely agree that Wario needs options out of crouched Side B and would also add that Wario should be able to sweetspot the ledge during Side B. If you're forced to recover low, he's is entirely crippled on stages with tiny ledges.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
I don't think either of those would really address any of the concerns surrounding Wario.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Without less risk would be dumb? So, you want him to be able to throw out side b with less risk then?
Like without less risk means the same thing as with more risk I guess but that is super strangely worded.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Wario's just really laggy, with really long start up on several moves that don't really need it, and that do low damage and lower BKB, with no range to speak of, with bad physics regarding fast falling speed and jump height, and jagged animations like MK and G&W for some reason.
Still better than Ike and R.O.B. though.
Still better than Ike and R.O.B. though.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Marginally better at least. Wario's up special can be used out of shield and he doesn't have to be super dedicated with every thing he does.
cannedbread
Smash Lord
I'm going to have to assume you're trolling, and I'm going to issue you an Ike warning. Never take his name in vain again.
Seriously? Wario isn't comparable to Ike. This is IKE we are talking about. I don't even have to try and analyze how Wario is "safer" at approaching than Ike or less committed when he has less range and overall combo potential than Ike. Arguably less mobility too with Ike being able to Side B around.
There's not a single moment of gameplay for Wario that you can show me, that will make him look as good as Ike. Plain and simple. Maybe a cool combo into Fart, that's really all that could compare. On a regular basis, no lol. Strictly ignoring my gut feelings based on maining him in Brawl for the past whatever, he's not the same level as Ike and I would love for you to successfully argue that since I have enjoyed playing him for quite some time.
Seriously? Wario isn't comparable to Ike. This is IKE we are talking about. I don't even have to try and analyze how Wario is "safer" at approaching than Ike or less committed when he has less range and overall combo potential than Ike. Arguably less mobility too with Ike being able to Side B around.
There's not a single moment of gameplay for Wario that you can show me, that will make him look as good as Ike. Plain and simple. Maybe a cool combo into Fart, that's really all that could compare. On a regular basis, no lol. Strictly ignoring my gut feelings based on maining him in Brawl for the past whatever, he's not the same level as Ike and I would love for you to successfully argue that since I have enjoyed playing him for quite some time.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Okay, nerf Ike, buff Wario, do whatever you want and think whatever you want. I don't play Ike because he's neither good nor fun, but again, to each their own.
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
That's not hard to argue at all. 95%-99% of people are stupid anyways.
Not that I'm agreeing or disagreeing with Kink, but argumentum ad populum doesn't support your case.
Not that I'm agreeing or disagreeing with Kink, but argumentum ad populum doesn't support your case.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
At least.
Most Melee players still think Yoshi is bad and Falcon is the bee's knees and probably will for a long time.
This "Easy to use character with high damage BnBs is top tier" nonsense always happens, while the weird characters are always "low tier" at first because no one wants to analyze them properly or use them to a large extent.
Fine
Tournament results don't support it, character popularity doesn't support it, player opinions don't support it, etc
Ike's a better character than Wario, or at least so far has done massively better than Wario take it for what you will but it's not solely "Ike's overrated and Wario's underrated"
Maybe one day us Wario players will sprout wings and fly
Or maybe Ike is mid tier (hue)
Tournament results don't support it, character popularity doesn't support it, player opinions don't support it, etc
Ike's a better character than Wario, or at least so far has done massively better than Wario take it for what you will but it's not solely "Ike's overrated and Wario's underrated"
Maybe one day us Wario players will sprout wings and fly
Or maybe Ike is mid tier (hue)
cannedbread
Smash Lord
i'm just really sick of hearing theorysmash.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Would you rather hear about results of people who admit they've never played against Ike and don't know what they're doing against him?
In a metagame that is months old, with as small a player base as this game has and with so much yet to be explored, the only rightful thing we have to go on is looking at the traits of each character and how those interact with other characters' traits.
Results in the short term are a matter of who is learning more about the game faster, and results in the long term are a matter of who the best players happen to use, neither of which give anything close to an accurate incite into the whole cast.
At least theoretical stuff can be analyzed properly.
metroid1117
Smash Master
What DMG said, except I don't think Ike is mid tier.
Unlike Wario, Ike has a great grab game, has a lot of range, is VERY safe on shield when spaced properly, can kill very easily, can combo into his kill moves, is amazing at edgeguarding, and lives forever on walled stages.
The only great quality about Wario is his aerial mobility. Besides the bite and fart, none of his other moves stick out to me as being particularly good. The bite is great, the only not-so-awesome part about the move is that it slows down your momentum. However, the fart takes some time to charge and isn't an "insta-kill" at high %s like DK's punch. With the exception of this move, you can't really easily combo into any of Wario's kill moves, which are limited to FSmash, FTilt, side+B, BAir, and UAir.
Again, Wario's aerial mobility is superb, but I strongly disagree with the notion that Wario is better than Ike.
Unlike Wario, Ike has a great grab game, has a lot of range, is VERY safe on shield when spaced properly, can kill very easily, can combo into his kill moves, is amazing at edgeguarding, and lives forever on walled stages.
The only great quality about Wario is his aerial mobility. Besides the bite and fart, none of his other moves stick out to me as being particularly good. The bite is great, the only not-so-awesome part about the move is that it slows down your momentum. However, the fart takes some time to charge and isn't an "insta-kill" at high %s like DK's punch. With the exception of this move, you can't really easily combo into any of Wario's kill moves, which are limited to FSmash, FTilt, side+B, BAir, and UAir.
Again, Wario's aerial mobility is superb, but I strongly disagree with the notion that Wario is better than Ike.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Fully charged waft is significantly stronger than DK's standard B, which is by no means an instant kill move.
Unless you're using that term to mean something else.
Unless you're using that term to mean something else.
metroid1117
Smash Master
I was honestly unaware that Wario's fully-charged fart was that powerful; I had assumed that it was like in vBrawl, where the fully-charged hit doesn't kill as well as almost-fully-charged. Even so, the two-minute timer is extremely limiting and you might be forced to recover with the fart and give up the chance to kill with it.
Yeah I think Waft is stronger than DK punch, I mean it should be hands down would suck **** if it wasn't lol. Either way the point is DK punch being a more reliable move in general with charging and comboing into it.
Wario's ok. I still dunno what the argument would be for him being better than Ike. Anything that's happened so far indicates that he's not, and theorybros doesn't look amazing for him either. Obviously it's still opinions and the game is fresh, but so far doesn't seem likely and assuming this game hold up the same for another year/no huge changes, I doubt Wario will be considered more viable than Ike. You can quote it, put money on it, whatever. This game, if it stayed the same for 1-2 years, would see Ike doing much better than Wario no contest.
Wario's ok. I still dunno what the argument would be for him being better than Ike. Anything that's happened so far indicates that he's not, and theorybros doesn't look amazing for him either. Obviously it's still opinions and the game is fresh, but so far doesn't seem likely and assuming this game hold up the same for another year/no huge changes, I doubt Wario will be considered more viable than Ike. You can quote it, put money on it, whatever. This game, if it stayed the same for 1-2 years, would see Ike doing much better than Wario no contest.
MonkUnit
Project M Back Roomer
Spoon~
Smash Ace
KOkingpin
Smash Champion
Wario Waft is stronger than DK's giant punch. And sends at a lower angle.
Bite is terrible. It deals more damage than it used to, but you'll never land it, because the opponent has no reason to stay in his shield in the first place. Since dashdance camping, L-Canceling, and wavedashing backward are all part of every character's arsenal, Wario has no means of getting close enough to Bite someone, especially since the grab hitbox is pitifully small. Also, even when you land it, unless a platform is in just the right place, it doesn't lead into anything, so it's just making Wario very vulnerable for a potential 13%, while Bowser's gives him a strong KO move or a 20% hit that COMBOS INTO THINGS.
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