JCaesar
Smash Hero
I guess the grab itself is fairly disjointed and since it's a grab it always gets priority. But I checked in PSA and it definitely has no invincibility.
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Project M Social Thread
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standardtoaster
Tubacabra
His sideb is actually negatively disjointed. Grabs with his head or something. His arm is wide open. Iirc
Shadic
Alakadoof?
What attacks? Do you have any videos?
The attack is negatively disjointed. If you're "trading" with it, Ganon would grab you anyways because they have priority. That's about it.
Perfect Chaos
Smash Master
So Pichu has many negative-invincibility moves, then...
Logically, that seems kind of silly, since he's not grabbing you with his mouth or anything. But I can see how that can benefit in some cases.
RaphaelRobo
Smash Champion
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I think you guys should alter the sideB animation so Ganondorf grabs with his mouth.
`dazrin
Smash Champion
LOL aw man.
Common dude, 9k isn't going and I need another fat character to MM xD
(it was mostly a joke, bro.. Mostly. :D)
Shadic
Alakadoof?
Many moves that send the character forward are negatively disjointed, simply because having a quick-moving disjointed hitbox ends up being ridiculous.
The concept was a big issue in designing Wario's SideB. It was decently disjointed at one point, and utterly dominated his gameplay.
Here's a super-old video of me trolling around with Wario (who I don't even play) against a Fox player who was quite a bit better than I. Part of it can be attributed to matchup experience, but it was a fairly safe move that had fantastic rewards.
`dazrin
Smash Champion
If Ganon had a disjointed sideb, I would just not play against any Ganons and ban him from my tournaments.
Trolololololololol
He seriously needs his dthrow CG removed though. Why remove sheik's and keep Ganon's? He needed that in melee cuz he was bad, but now that he's a monster, he REALLY doesn't need it anymore.
Sideb is annoying, but it's fine. If I can throw a boomerang in his nose when he does that, I can live with it. Just don't sit in shield when he sideb's.
Trolololololololol
He seriously needs his dthrow CG removed though. Why remove sheik's and keep Ganon's? He needed that in melee cuz he was bad, but now that he's a monster, he REALLY doesn't need it anymore.
Sideb is annoying, but it's fine. If I can throw a boomerang in his nose when he does that, I can live with it. Just don't sit in shield when he sideb's.
cmart
Smash Lord
Why are you picking on my weight : {LOL aw man.
Common dude, 9k isn't going and I need another fat character to MM xD
(it was mostly a joke, bro.. Mostly. :D)
Can't do that. Something works in Melee and works in here? Can't talk about it/balancing it.He seriously needs his dthrow CG removed though. Why remove sheik's and keep Ganon's? He needed that in melee cuz he was bad, but now that he's a monster, he REALLY doesn't need it anymore.
9Kplus1
Smash Master
Removing Ganon's Dthrow CG would be like tacking on a frame or two to the start of the hitboxes on Sonic's Down B spindash...
OH WAIT
OH WAIT
hotdogturtle
Smash Master
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2007
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- 3,503
But remove his side-B ledgegrab? OH NOESGanon should just get the Shiek treatment.
Get rid of the chaingrab, but in return: buff his side-b, and give him a wallcling and a crawl.
Kati
Smash Lord
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That is an interesting opinion Daze. I figured that with Ganon's pathetic grab reach, maneuverability, as well as brawl's shield push back, that initiating a chain grab with him is much more difficult than Shiek, and thus should reward the player more.
`dazrin
Smash Champion
@Kati
Are you telling me it's hard to do? Because it's not, and you usually don't even need to move to regrab. I dunno, it just seems really dumb that he can CG 80% of the current cast and sheik's CG was done away with for the most part. Not to mention that you can squeeze in a free aerial- namely, a fair, after a dthrow.
I just don't understand why you (the PMBR) would put so much effort into reworking sheik's grab game and then just look at Ganon's and say: "yeah, that's fine" when it's basically the same thing.
I guess you guys didn't anticipate Ganon being a good character? Or that Sheik's was just more obvious because she was a top tier? Or was Magus just trolling because he mains Ganon? Either way, it's kinda dumb and should receive some changes in my opinion.
Just my thoughts on it. I love you guys (the PMBR) for everything that you've done and all the work you put into this game, and for the members that I talk to on a regular basis, all of you are really awesome guys. I'm just expressing some critisism on something I really think needs some changing in 2.1. <3
Also cmart, I'm sorry for picking on your weight But maybe getting a diet soda and picking up a smaller spike-shell would be nice for your figure, and sheik wouldn't still be able to standing CG you and whO knows? Maybe peach might actually stick around in your castle for a little longer the next time you decide to kidnap her :D
Are you telling me it's hard to do? Because it's not, and you usually don't even need to move to regrab. I dunno, it just seems really dumb that he can CG 80% of the current cast and sheik's CG was done away with for the most part. Not to mention that you can squeeze in a free aerial- namely, a fair, after a dthrow.
I just don't understand why you (the PMBR) would put so much effort into reworking sheik's grab game and then just look at Ganon's and say: "yeah, that's fine" when it's basically the same thing.
I guess you guys didn't anticipate Ganon being a good character? Or that Sheik's was just more obvious because she was a top tier? Or was Magus just trolling because he mains Ganon? Either way, it's kinda dumb and should receive some changes in my opinion.
Just my thoughts on it. I love you guys (the PMBR) for everything that you've done and all the work you put into this game, and for the members that I talk to on a regular basis, all of you are really awesome guys. I'm just expressing some critisism on something I really think needs some changing in 2.1. <3
Also cmart, I'm sorry for picking on your weight
But maybe getting a diet soda and picking up a smaller spike-shell would be nice for your figure, and sheik wouldn't still be able to standing CG you and whO knows? Maybe peach might actually stick around in your castle for a little longer the next time you decide to kidnap her :D
Little known fact: with many characters, if your opponent doesn't tech aerial side b, Ganon can grab them during the bounce.
For those who don't think the down throw cg is ********.
For my part, I'm more concerned that the cg is boring as hell, and is viable on every stage.
For those who don't think the down throw cg is ********.
For my part, I'm more concerned that the cg is boring as hell, and is viable on every stage.
It feels gay on heavies and fast fallers, but like vs Peach for example you aren't CGing her for an eternity. Floaties get out pretty soon, platforms can interrupt it and you can DI in front of Ganon to force him to walk/dash grab forward to keep it going and direct yourself towards platforms. Or need to go backwards? DI behind him and make him turn around grab, and then DI ahead of Ganon towards the platform. Sure eating tons of damage from his CG is gay, but we're not about fixing "gay" we're about fixing broken. Unless he's instantly top 3 because of it, I would leave it alone. Let the game develop.
Platforms hardly, if ever, really interrupt his cg.
The thing is, if it doesn't flat out lead to your death, he gets a guaranteed aerial after it, usually putting you in a position where you need to recover and putting your stock at risk.
The thing is, if it doesn't flat out lead to your death, he gets a guaranteed aerial after it, usually putting you in a position where you need to recover and putting your stock at risk.
RaphaelRobo
Smash Champion
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Unless you're Lucas, in which case that aerial is death.
Fox and Falco got a downB death in Melee, I assume it's the same in PM.
Also, if anyone were to know how good Ganon's CG is, it would be Magus:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsNbCkzRF-s
Fox and Falco got a downB death in Melee, I assume it's the same in PM.
Also, if anyone were to know how good Ganon's CG is, it would be Magus:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsNbCkzRF-s
`dazrin
Smash Champion
That video is roflmao
Xinc
Smash Lord
Nothing beats saying F*ck you than a Ganon CGing a Falco 0-death. lol.That video is roflmao
metroid1117
Smash Master
While theory-crafting is good and all, I feel like using that as an example is too drastic - I've never seen any Ganon (Kage, Linguini, Renth, etc.) do that in tournament and beat a spacie because of it. It's extremely difficult to perform, Magus devotes a special part of this thread on its execution.
That being said, I think we should see if Ganondorf becomes overly-dominant in tournaments before nerfing him.
RaphaelRobo
Smash Champion
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I mostly linked to that as a joke.
I know some Ganons are working on trying to get that good at it, but none of them have yet to pull it off against anything other than a CPU. I'm fairly confident we'll start to see those chaingrabs happening more often, though.
You have to get extremely lucky for the 0-death, though. It's more like a 12/35 to death, depending on whether it's Falco or Fox.
The CGs in PM seem to be easier than that, but don't go to death. The exception is the Lucas chain grab, which is easy to perform, and a guaranteed KO.
I know some Ganons are working on trying to get that good at it, but none of them have yet to pull it off against anything other than a CPU. I'm fairly confident we'll start to see those chaingrabs happening more often, though.
You have to get extremely lucky for the 0-death, though. It's more like a 12/35 to death, depending on whether it's Falco or Fox.
The CGs in PM seem to be easier than that, but don't go to death. The exception is the Lucas chain grab, which is easy to perform, and a guaranteed KO.
`dazrin
Smash Champion
It doesn't ever work to THAT extreme of an example, but it adds a good 15-20% for free at least and ends in a fair of bair. That, coupled with not being able to do anything other than wait for ganon to mess up, is kinda boring gameplay.
It's not the fact that it's really OP or anything, it's just the fact that it's really dumb, uncreative, and isn't fun.
Except for Lucas. It's OP against Lucas.
Oh yeah. And it's not very hard to do at all. I dunno what you guys are talking about :S It might be hard to CG from 0 until 100+ and kill, but it's pretty easy to get at least 3-4 regrabs. He just doesn't need something like that and it's really boring to watch, doesn't take much effort to do, and it can be aggravated for the person getting tossed around.
It's not the fact that it's really OP or anything, it's just the fact that it's really dumb, uncreative, and isn't fun.
Except for Lucas. It's OP against Lucas.
Oh yeah. And it's not very hard to do at all. I dunno what you guys are talking about :S It might be hard to CG from 0 until 100+ and kill, but it's pretty easy to get at least 3-4 regrabs. He just doesn't need something like that and it's really boring to watch, doesn't take much effort to do, and it can be aggravated for the person getting tossed around.
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
You know what would be creative and fun? Nerfing ganon's dthrow and giving him a new utilt to compensate. And best of all, PMBR could finally incorporate ganon's sword in the utilt :D
`dazrin
Smash Champion
That, actually sounds like a great idea.
Wow. Was seriously expecting another troll post lol
Wow. Was seriously expecting another troll post lol
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
Me? Troll?
*gasp*
Why I never...
*gasp*
Why I never...
leelue
Smash Lord
I'd like to point out that ganon doesn't have to win millions o tourneys before it is a problem.
It's a problem if the grab invalidates matchups entirely. There will be bad matchups, but avoiding as many 90-10 matchups as possible would be nice.
+1 for drinking food
This time
It's a problem if the grab invalidates matchups entirely. There will be bad matchups, but avoiding as many 90-10 matchups as possible would be nice.
+1 for drinking food
This time
http://www.twitch.tv/fuzzyness
Found this while on twitch, they're playing P:M along with Melee. Also: a really terrifying snake.
Found this while on twitch, they're playing P:M along with Melee. Also: a really terrifying snake.
Cia
das kwl
WOW..
I never knew how good the Europeans are @ P:M
I'm gonna need to practice :D
I never knew how good the Europeans are @ P:M
I'm gonna need to practice :D
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
`dazrin
Smash Champion
Yeah, despite not having a PAL version available, they're sticking to it and are actually really good. Armada's pit and Leffen's Lucario were the huge highlights of the European PM crowd, but I also remember seeing a ROB that blew me away, a pretty good toon link, and a couple of pretty damn good Mario's.
If there is ever an international PM tournament featuring Europe, Japan, and North America... It'll be quite the sight to see.
Sanity's_Theif
Smash Ace
not with that skin you're not ;x
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
Holy **** that texture is ugly.
RaphaelRobo
Smash Champion
- Joined
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I've used that texture before. It's pretty cool looking on the Wii, so it must be the recording that's making it look bad.
As for your Ganon, I suggest going to the Melee Ganon boards and reading some of the guides there. Ganon plays almost the same way in both games. It's just that in PM he has a better aerial sideB (in exchange for a worse grounded sideB, but the improvement is such that it's worth it), better recovery (allowing riskier edgeguards), DACUS, can ledgehop Fair, and is buffed in general.
As for your Ganon, I suggest going to the Melee Ganon boards and reading some of the guides there. Ganon plays almost the same way in both games. It's just that in PM he has a better aerial sideB (in exchange for a worse grounded sideB, but the improvement is such that it's worth it), better recovery (allowing riskier edgeguards), DACUS, can ledgehop Fair, and is buffed in general.
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
It's not the way it looks. It's the fact that it's not Ganon. Replacing characters with textures/models or other characters is demeaning and tasteless. It's Super Smash Bros, not Naruto, not Bleach, not ****ing Transformers, not DBZ.
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