Project M Social Thread

Archangel · May 30, 2012

LOL...If you wish to continue discussing things like a decent human being I would click the ignore button on leffen.

leffen · May 30, 2012

If you can dash dance around the dash attack, hes not using it in the context that I've described to you. I've already said that if he just throws dash attacks around its not very good.

Yes, I know that it wasn't the situation you described. Im just showing how horribly limited it is in its use.

Also, for him to get into that close range against character with faster speeds (ie sonic) or any character with good approaches/spacing (any melee top/high tier and all of P:M cast but zard and sonic) is VERY hard and means that they have ****ed up badly

Crouch cancelling is one of the few ways to get out of it, but then you're still limited to just rolling out unless your character has a ridiculously fast start up move. If you aren't buffering a roll as soon as possible, you get palmed.
Buffering roll from shield does not beat it. The timing for comboing jab into palm is the same timing as cancelling into palm from blocked jabs, and if the first jab hits your shield and the Lucario does jabs as fast as he can (which he has no reason no to), then you're never out of shield stun enough to start up the buffered roll. Buffered spot dodge and buffered jump I'm admittedly not sure about.

WHAT? His jabs have NOOOO shieldstun. You can both buffer roll AND shield grab him for FREE. The timing is also not the same, the hitlag differs.

His first jab deals 3%, and his second does 2%. They both have terribly low knockback, and arent quick (for being jabs)
This is UNSTALED. If they stale they get even less.

I can tell you are just talking from your ***. You haven't properly doing **** against his jab jab, and for some reason you didnt realize that you can always shieldgrab jabs, let alone roll and spotdodge

I'm not saying he has a good mix up game. There is no mixup involved. If he gets in the situation where he can get a jab/dash attack in, Lucario can simply cancel into overB and get a free palm. There are very few ways to get out of this. It cuts away 90% of the defensive game.

The fact that he has many options is his redeeming factor. He has 20 different gimmicks that will fool ******* like you into thinking that they're safe

Grabs also generally don't have the large active frames and range that Lucario's dash attack do.

Range? Lmao, many characters have both more range and much more priority (read:grabs have infinite priority)
Grabs can now also be pivoted, which makes them a lot more useful since you can outspace moves with them (lucario can only even try to punish or stuff things)

@Answer to second post: If he is that close, you could still probably run away from him (since dash attack isn't that fast) and you could just jab him with every character (he lunges forward before he has hitbox on dash attack)

AND AGAIN, you could still roll, spotdodge, OR JUST SHIELD. You could do your own dash attack. Lucarios only strength is that has a decent offense, why are you putting yourself at a disadvantage for free?

You can also just choose to get hit by it, since if he is force palming it won't hit

Can you just please, stfu and go try out some answers instead of using your (TERRIBLE AND INCORRECT) mental image of how lucario works?
You aren't looking for how to deal with lucario. You are just looking for an excuse to losing every mixup up close

I'm sorry that I don't act like a "decent human being" but at least I'm not spewing bull**** and I'm right, but I guess that doesn't matter to you

EDIT: I'm still looking for any decent lucario footage. UTDZac is obviously unfamiliar/bad with the character, he cannot combo and doesn't use aura cancels at all.
sigh

EDIT2:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQnDJ1X40PI&t=10m40s you ****ing hypocrite LMFAO

KingBlaze777 · May 30, 2012

@leffen
So leffen, want to be my sweet P:M coach? I bet that with your speeches I can get the motivation needed to main characters other than Mario, Ness and Tink AND to improve my current mains. You could like, make me better than M2K+Mango+Armada with your speeches :D

But in all seriousness, you should learn how to talk to others without making yourself look like an arrogant *****.

iLink · May 30, 2012

Judging by that video, UTD doesn't have a very good grasp of Lucario's potential lol. But you spot dodge his dash attack at about 12:29 in the exact situation you say you have trouble with but you don't punish it at all.

Strong Badam · May 30, 2012

you can beat out Dash Attack pretty easily with just WD back baits and such, it has decent endlag when you can't cancel it.

NeoZ · May 30, 2012

leffen said:
Lucarios ideas are all great, but he needs a more refined feel to him.
Probably the best character atm but it won't be reached because no one is gonna have enough brawl+melee+sf exp and the community is too small to work out all of his (overpowered)option selects

He has option selects?

leffen · May 30, 2012

oh btw, how did you fix the "random select now favors mario" bug? Because I got ness/pitmuch more than any other character (played over 4 hours of using random only)

Playing random is hella fun in this game overall, being able to **** with every character while learning how every new character works is so good for your game knowledge lol

My "random" tag ended up with some interesting stats, 98% win, 41,5% hit accuracy and 60% of my deaths was SDs... lol

also can you send replays to another person and then they can upload them like with regular brawl? I really want to post some videos on the tons of AT's I've found

and yes he has option selects, I'm not gonna tell anyone them atm though because no one uses option selects with other characters (yet) and ppl would just whine about him being op when hes bad.

Revven · May 30, 2012

leffen said:
also can you send replays to another person and then they can upload them like with regular brawl? I really want to post some videos on the tons of AT's I've found.

Replays are broken for the moment. You would have to use a capture device.

curry9186 · May 30, 2012

Out of curiosity, are there plans to adjust C-stick inputs while crawling? I noticed that you can press c-stick anywhere while crawling and always get d-smash.

Mr.Pickle · May 30, 2012

So whats up with this demo 2.1? I've been in florida with a lesbian couple for a while lol, anyone mind filling me in?

MonkUnit · May 30, 2012

Changes from 2.0 -> 2.1 are in the patch notes

Sethlon · May 30, 2012

leffen said:
I'm sorry that I don't act like a "decent human being" but at least I'm not spewing bull**** and I'm right, but I guess that doesn't matter to you

EDIT: I'm still looking for any decent lucario footage. UTDZac is obviously unfamiliar/bad with the character, he cannot combo and doesn't use aura cancels at all.
sigh

EDIT2:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQnDJ1X40PI&t=10m40s you ****ing hypocrite LMFAO

What is right does very much matter to me. You being a douche about it makes it hard to do anything but defend myself, though. I have had lots of times were I've felt like I've been buffering the roll after the first jab of jabx2 connects, but apparently I'm wrong.

So. Tested; jabx2 is definitely buffer roll-able. Single jab and dash attack, however, are not. Shield to buffer roll and crouch cancel to buffer roll both get palm grabbed before the invuln of the roll starts up.

And this is where i make some remark about all the stuff I say is spewing bull****, and then you have another retort, and blahblahblah

JediKnightTemplar · May 30, 2012

Falco400 said:
Replays are broken for the moment. You would have to use a capture device.

Unless he's using the wifi build, which I'll assume he isn't.

kaizo13 · May 30, 2012

so where is all the pro Leffen footage? he seems to know everything

link anyone?

RaphaelRobo · May 30, 2012

Would it be possible to add a random character switch similar to the random stage switch? I think that would be really cool.

Sapphire Dragon · May 30, 2012

Random character switch would be awesome, just saying.

JediKnightTemplar · May 30, 2012

Wouldn't that involve adding menus, which IIRC isn't possible?

standardtoaster · May 30, 2012

Yes, it would.

Mr.Pickle · May 30, 2012

I feel like a ******* but I cant find the patch notes.....where is it lol

GunBlaze · May 30, 2012

Mr.Pickle said:
I feel like a ******* but I cant find the patch notes.....where is it lol

http://smashmods.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=4352

Mr.Pickle · May 30, 2012

Thanks duder

lordvaati · May 30, 2012

Sakurai: It isn't a matter of "if the next game has 50 characters, that'll be enough." There is a certain charm to games that have huge casts of characters, but they tend to have issues with game balance, and it becomes very difficult to fine-tune each character and make them feel distinctive... In terms of quantity, we've probably already reached the limit of what's feasible. I think a change of direction might be what's needed.

looks like he's focusing on quality over quanity now.

um, yay?

leffen · May 30, 2012

Sethlon said:
What is right does very much matter to me. You being a douche about it makes it hard to do anything but defend myself, though. I have had lots of times were I've felt like I've been buffering the roll after the first jab of jabx2 connects, but apparently I'm wrong.

So. Tested; jabx2 is definitely buffer roll-able. Single jab and dash attack, however, are not. Shield to buffer roll and crouch cancel to buffer roll both get palm grabbed before the invuln of the roll starts up.

And this is where i make some remark about all the stuff I say is spewing bull****, and then you have another retort, and blahblahblah

You cannot hitconfirm dash attack/single jab to make it unrollable (depending on when dash attack hits/at what range jab hits side B will not hit, UTD zac missed cause of this reason 10 times in 3 matches)

Also, staleness make them rollable.
And adding to this, you could still roll out and make his jab whiff, and you can always always always spotdodge.

Happy you realize that you were wrong in just about every way. Do you still think Lucario's good?

edit: Is UTDZac your only Lucario experience? Because if so this discussion is useless lol

stingers · May 30, 2012

lordvaati said:
looks like he's focusing on quality over quanity now.

um, yay?

where did you read that?

MaxThunder · May 31, 2012

Sethlon said:
o·ver
adverb
26. from side to side; across; to the other side: to sail over.

SideB is a bit more obvious, but overB is just how I've always said it *shrug*

Hm ok, thanks=)...

lordvaati said:
looks like he's focusing on quality over quanity now.

um, yay?

almost sounds like good news... where'd you get this from?..

batistabus · May 31, 2012

Leffen, you make a lot of really informed, legitimate points about this game. I'm sure everyone appreciates your knowledge, ability, and experience, especially the PMBR. As you are a member of the Melee BR, it's obvious you must care about the community and the potential that exists in Project M.

That being said, the way you talk down to people isn't the way to push your agenda. Even if you think the people you're talking to are clueless morons, you can prove that you're right while still treating them like a human being. If you want the community to grow, to help the project, and to not be dismissed as a raving troll, it'd help if you let your evidence (rather than insults) destroy someone's argument.

I'm sure the PMBR pays special attention to what you're saying considering your skill level. Your voice is probably going to be heard regardless. But I think everyone here would appreciate (and welcome) less vicious criticisms. You have a lot of insightful things to say, but a lot of that gets lost among the snide remarks.

lordvaati said:
looks like he's focusing on quality over quanity now.

um, yay?

This is probably for the best. It's obvious he's not going to go for a more competitive Smash, so I'd rather this than an even more watered down version (Besides, that's what PM is for!) I still love the idea of Smash Bros., and playing with our favorite characters in an entirely new way sounds kind of refreshing.

`dazrin · May 31, 2012

leffen said:
Is there any GOOD Lucario players/footage?

I wanna see if anyone uses the techniques I found and how people handle his horrible flaws.

also those 2 combos are ****ing horrible

Sorry, but..

Yeah. UTD is really bad. Has no idea what he's doing. Sorry, no hard feelings, UTD... its just that I've seen/ played with far better lucarios lol

Lucario players are generally scarce atm, but from what lucario mains I've seen, Lucario is a pretty good character. Just gotta be technical lol

I've played against SilentWolf's Lucario, and Yakal's (5th on current BC PR) Lucario. Both of which were very good. Lost to both (except I recently beat Yakal's Lucario because I know alot more about Tlink now)

Hopefully I will be able to get some recording of some matches with them up sometime soon. I also mean to get up videos of Meta's Wolf and my ToonLink. I think our matches would be worth recording and uploading after seeing the skill level most of all the P:M matches I've seen on youtube.

Just gotta grab a good capture card >.< Anyone have a good cap card in mind that doesn't require a PC to be plugged into it? I know what a dazzle does, and I don't own a laptop so it's kinda inconvenient to have a capture card like that. I just want something that I can plug into the inputs, press a record button and have it save files on an attached usb/sd or something. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. ^_^

Also, i still need your help, toastermonk lol :D

MonkUnit · May 31, 2012

You can use a mobile DVD off of amazon for like $10, but it's really ****ty 240p 3gp files lol. Only other mobile recorder I know of is the dazzle DVR or whatever it is.

Or use VCR. A VcR should be about $10 or free on craigslist and a pack of 3-5 tapes at a local Walgreens is $5-10

`dazrin · May 31, 2012

Lol screw that xD

Toph had something that was hella tight. Gotta ask him what it was called. It was just a small box (maybe 3 times as thick as an iphone and a bit longer) with red white yellow inputs and a record button at the top that was free from PC use lol

and MONK. Still need help importing Melee SFX to my USBloader. Help me get my edited ISO working. I have a WBFS file of brawl or whatever and what i do is a convert it to iso, replace the BSRAR, and then transfer it back to my USB flash drive using wiibackup manager (which in doing so, makes it a WBFS file again, but I've also tried keeping it an ISO and had similar results)

When I try booting up the edited ISO/WBFS file it doesn't work. Gives me an error. I can't remember specifically what it said, but i'll get back to you on that. I'm in the middle of moving houses so I don't have time to fiddle with it anymore (even though I already tried going at it for 3 days in a row).

Any help with that is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

iLink · May 31, 2012

That would also require you to be able to get it off the tape and onto the computer as well though.

Edit: slow iphone is slow

kaizo13 · May 31, 2012

the game freezes when I go into options>controls. It's been happening to me since 2.0. any idea why? I'm on Riivo

9Kplus1 · May 31, 2012

You guys should re-add tripping out of a dash

Tripping brings a ton of great aspects to the competitive field of P:M

Sooooo legit

MonkUnit · May 31, 2012

Daze: ugghhh. I'll be on the IRC after work sometime in the evening. I'd really like to have this issue you're having resolved once and for all.

MaxThunder · May 31, 2012

Ultimate Relay Chat!!!

standardtoaster · May 31, 2012

Daze, you can get a Pinnacle Video Transfer. It doesn't require a computer and it gets pretty good quality.

Dragonrage · May 31, 2012

`daze said:
and MONK. Still need help importing Melee SFX to my USBloader. Help me get my edited ISO working. I have a WBFS file of brawl or whatever and what i do is a convert it to iso, replace the BSRAR, and then transfer it back to my USB flash drive using wiibackup manager (which in doing so, makes it a WBFS file again, but I've also tried keeping it an ISO and had similar results)

When I try booting up the edited ISO/WBFS file it doesn't work. Gives me an error. I can't remember specifically what it said, but i'll get back to you on that. I'm in the middle of moving houses so I don't have time to fiddle with it anymore (even though I already tried going at it for 3 days in a row).

Any help with that is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Sounds like the conversion process is the issue. A replaced bsrar shouldn't cause the entire file to be unreadable by the USB Loader. Unless of course Wii Scrubber corrupted the ISO, speaking of that, which version are you using?

Also try using WBFS manager to convert the ISO, that one always worked for me.

`dazrin · May 31, 2012

Yeah! That's the one I was looking for. Thanks toast.

Lol, and sorry to bother you guys so much, its just like NO ONE else is able to help me. I pretty much found out the most that I possibly could by myself lol.

It's okay though, it'll be worth your while. I'll buy you guys food or something at FC haha

edit: Tried using that as well, dragonrage. No dice. :/ I'll try to get it working some more once I get my PC moved into my new house.

MonkUnit · May 31, 2012

`daze said:
It's okay though, it'll be worth your while. I'll buy you guys food or something at FC haha

You're going to FC? Cool. I'll gladly take your offer of buying us food, lol.

Dragonrage · May 31, 2012

I think I know what might be the issue then. But I would need you to explain to me exactly what you're doing, so I'll just get on the IRC later lol

Archangel · May 31, 2012

wifi with a blue connection is SOOOOOO fun

on another note...I'm not sure why Fox is easier to play in 2.1 but he's seemingly alot easier for me personally then he was in 2.0.... explanation?

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