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DrinkingFood

DrinkingFood

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Tink-er in the Kitchen said:
Did none of y'all notice the part where I directly mentioned doing the same thing to D3?
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You can already do an upwards aerial breakout from D3's inhale. You can even footsool him out of it lol. Plus his fall speed and less jumps make stalling at the edge for an inhale less practical. I don't think anyone here has a problem with inhale suicides, just with how Kirby's can be abused on the ledge.
 
DMG

DMG

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DMG#931
Before people complain about Kirby on the edge, you should probably look into the frame data involved. Chances are, he's more vulnerable doing it than someone like Sheik, and if we're not banning her from edge stalling then I definitely don't see a reason to ban/modify Kirby from doing it.
 
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trash?

trash?

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kirby's inhale is the gimmickiest thing in all of smash and you should feel ashamed if you always lose to it
 
PMS | Tink-er

PMS | Tink-er

fie on thee
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DMG said:
Before people complain about Kirby on the edge, you should probably look into the frame data involved. Chances are, he's more vulnerable doing it than someone like Sheik, and if we're not banning her from edge stalling then I definitely don't see a reason to ban/modify Kirby from doing it.
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The problem isn't Kirby ledge stalling, it's Kirby ledge stalling with the intent to Kirbycide you if you approach. Either you play his campy game, or you get killed for approaching. It's the problem people had with Brawl: you are basically punished for being the one to approach your enemy.
 
Kaye Cruiser

Kaye Cruiser

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YarsRevengerson said:
I remember how Edgy used to have a meaning but it's been completely botched up by the internet because the internet is full of dummies
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I love how this can be applied to many different words, phrases, sayings and terms that have been absolutely ruined by the internet.
 
hotdogturtle

hotdogturtle

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Tink-er in the Kitchen said:
So someone complemented Chu Dat earlier in the thread? That guy infuriates me to no end. He plays Kirby the stupidest way possible, imho. It was funny the first time I saw it like three months ago, but really, his Kamikaze Kirbyciding off of the slightest lead is the stupidest bull**** I've seen anywhere in Smash. I'm so glad Junebug kicked his campy *** last night. That playstyle is so stupid, and Kirby (and Chu) is really solid without it. The lack of finesse needed to do it is crazy, and the only way to avoid it is to turn the game into a tedious camp-fest. I really don't think Kirby is OP or needs nerfs (though that 90% chaingrab he got off on Pink Fresh's Ollie was ****in sick), but I wish that something could be done to make what he does when he has a lead not work, or at least more difficult or less rewarding. It just kinda ruins the hype of a match/set to see the entire game slow to a crawl because approaching Chu Dat when he's camping the ledge is just asking to get command grabbed, and not approaching is asking for Chu to sit there and time you out. I've got a friend who just picked this BS up in like half a day, but at least he had the decency to stop doing it when he realized it was stupid as **** and actually learn Kirby's really cool combo game.

/endsaltyjohnsrant
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I wish we could add another button next to the "Like" button that was a "Johns" button so I could click it for this post.

Edit:
Tink-er in the Kitchen said:
I think he's scummy for using such a cheap exploit
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LMAO PLEASE ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME
 
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PMS | Tink-er

PMS | Tink-er

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No. No one in the whole world has. Tacos do not contain bells, and Taco is a mean nickname for someone named Bell. Taco Bell is not real. Fnord.
 
DrinkingFood

DrinkingFood

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DMG said:
Before people complain about Kirby on the edge, you should probably look into the frame data involved. Chances are, he's more vulnerable doing it than someone like Sheik, and if we're not banning her from edge stalling then I definitely don't see a reason to ban/modify Kirby from doing it.
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The thing with Kirby is that if you make a mistake trying to get him off the edge you die
Against any other character, including sheik, if you make a mistake, you're more likely to get reset to neutral, for the same reason that edgehogging tethers usually results in a reset to neutral- you'd get hit inward towards the stage instead of sucked off of it.
 
DMG

DMG

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DrinkingFood said:
The thing with Kirby is that if you make a mistake trying to get him off the edge you die
Against any other character, including sheik, if you make a mistake, you're more likely to get reset to neutral, for the same reason that edgehogging tethers usually results in a reset to neutral- you'd get hit inward towards the stage instead of sucked off of it.
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Again though, that still begs to ask what his particular frame data is. If it isn't dominant enough, you can def assume people will figure out ways to steal the edge or maneuver around Kirby. I was one of the more knowledgeable people in Brawl when it came to ledge frame data and frame data involving planking/edge stalling. You'd be surprised how many people incorrectly assume that G^W or DK can regrab/Upb to the edge with total invincibility while planking in Brawl for example.


I don't fool around with BBox or anything else that can look at hitboxes/frame data. If something accurate exists for PM, and you can have it tool assisted, someone should look at a ton of ledge frame data for this game. Obviously some of it will be similar to Melee, but it would be interesting to see how many characters can waveland onto the stage and retain invincibility for example. Or if anyone else has decent ledge regrab like the classic Ganon regrab.


Edit: I tried the Taco Bell Quesarito or whatever. I thought it would be pretty good, but I think they partially ruined it with some sauce. I think they shoved some petty chipotle/hot sauce into the quesadilla part, and it made the cheese not melt so good. 6/10, would rather have just a burrito or quesadilla if they keep doing that.
 
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Prince Longstrok

Prince Longstrok

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Is Kirby really something to be concerned about? The only Kirby player Ive ever seen was in pools at a tourny long ago- and he was 4 stocked.

I really think it is the wrong way to go about it- attempting to "fix" a problem before we really find out if it is a problem at all. It seems like a underdog character cant win one match around here without someone yelling "NERF! OP!" immediately afterwards.

Not cool, guys :c
 
kaizo13

kaizo13

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people really complaining about Chu's kirby?

anyone he's beat with swallowcide rightfully lost because they either play the matchup wrong or got flustered, rushed in and got swallowed. Swallow is not the safest of moves and falls victim to a bait and punish. Of course by the time you realize that, it might be too late...which is part of why this tactic intrigues me.

I admire Chu's ability to get into people's heads, and he totally infiltrated SmashGod's brain!

the only thing i will say is, if swallow has armor....it definitely should not.

moral of the story:
"You can swallow, but can you Chu Dat?"
 
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PMS | Tink-er

PMS | Tink-er

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We're not discussing Kirby being OP, uhhhhhh (not callin you that, sorry) Kratos, we're discussing the point that Kirby's design promotes a campy, gimmicky playstyle, where he gets a lead and then camps the ledge for the rest of the match to Kirbycide his opponent. Kirby's actually a really awesome character with a really strong combo game and who excels at chaingrabs, recovering, and wall of paining, but none of that stuff gets used if you can just kill your opponent by sticking to the ledge and Kirbyciding them.
 
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hotdogturtle

hotdogturtle

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Prince Longstrok said:
Is Kirby really something to be concerned about? The only Kirby player Ive ever seen was in pools at a tourny long ago- and he was 4 stocked.

I really think it is the wrong way to go about it- attempting to "fix" a problem before we really find out if it is a problem at all. It seems like a underdog character cant win one match around here without someone yelling "NERF! OP!" immediately afterwards.

Not cool, guys :c
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Your second paragraph is right on the money. It's just like people claiming that Jigglypuff is either OP or "campy" in Melee just because Hungrybox camps with her, even though players like King and Darc have shown that she can be played offensively as well.
 
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| Kailex |

| Kailex |

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D

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Tink-er in the Kitchen said:
I can convert. Anyone cannnn convert, but I can. But only with the maker, not brawl box.


I'm not naive. I just think it's boring and unsportsmanlike. If smash is an esport, then sportsmanship and watchability should be important, and I don't think Chu Dat brings either of those to the table. I'm very hesitant to call anything cheap, but I'm going to call what he does cheap. If Chu Dat gets a slight lead on you, chances are he's going to win. The ability to win by camping after getting a slight percentage/stock lead is one of the reasons Brawl is so contentious in the community, and it's in PM's mission statement that PM aims to change this and slightly favour offensive play. Chu Dat makes it pretty obvious which style is more effective in Kirby's current design, though. I consider it a flawed view to call what he does "Playing to Win." I'd barely call camping a lead "Playing" PM to begin with. It's not like he's outsmarting or outskilling (and barely out-reading) his opponents when he does this. But he's obviously winning anyways. I don't understand why there was outrage at what ZeRo did at the Invitational's GFs and everyone started asking for changes to the game because of how effective camping was, but when Chu Dat camps all the time (and gets rewarded much more for it) it gets called a good playstyle and not a game design flaw.
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You're somewhat on the right page, but I'd like to elaborate on this a bit further.

Chu is a very curious person and likes to try new things and experiment. How he plays in smash is no different, and he's already found ICs chaingrabs in melee, several innovative gimps for kirby in brawl, and tons of good teams strategies. It's entirely fitting of his personality to find something abusable like inhale suicides and shouldn't really be surprising in any way.

For the record, I also think kirby's inhale is a little ridiculous and could stand to be toned down a bit. Now we simply know that it's worth addressing.
 
Comeback Kid

Comeback Kid

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How do you guys handle actual spicy food if a little mild sauce makes you edgy?

Yes, I've had one and had to add a few packs of fire sauce to make it flavorful.
 
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Hinichii.ez.™

Hinichii.ez.™

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" you can swallow, but can you chu dat"
I would buy those gold, and wear it each and everyday.
 
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