This is the least of our worries. Not everything will fall into place perfectly. Some sacrifices will be made. I'm sure majority would agree that being able to play the clones flawlessly is more important than any other minor issue that may arise.
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Project M Social Thread Gold
- Thread starter Project M
- Start date
It's Nintendo's online, still the same lag. Unfortunately, I don't think even fiddling with the online code could fix that, and having our private servers would be expensive, a cost we'd be forced to cover with our own personal money.
KingClubber
Smash Ace
No, no, no. That's Soj beating up on Cpu's. Your reading far to into that post.
Dubforce
Smash Sidius
Yo, come check out my stream. http://www.twitch.tv/dubforce
agreeing with this concept as someone with a pretty banner for giving AZ a buncha money
standardtoaster
Tubacabra
It's not possible to change the servers it uses
smashbro29
Smash Champion
It actually uses a server?
standardtoaster
Tubacabra
whatever it uses for the wifi we can't change it is what i meant
http://www.twitch.tv/ghneko - Streaming Xenoblade Chronicles, so buckle up and take a seat as we'll be starting within 10 mins.
EDIT: Run into some issues. Will take some extra time to sort out.
EDIT: Run into some issues. Will take some extra time to sort out.
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
now I am genuinely confused
if I wasn't supposed to look at the CPUs then idk what to look at
If I was supposed to look at the CPUs, I still don't know what to look at because idk what I'm looking for and am not an AI genus
http://www.twitch.tv/ghneko - Okay we're up and running. Lemme know if you can hear the music of the game and my voice.
GunBlaze
Smash Lord
kingclubba's posting is entirely based around PM dev AI and was smart enough to mindgames you into submission
3.0 AI will be the future. do not do anything less than bowing down to your new overlord
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
OOOOOOOOOOOHHHHH That makes sense
Damn I wanted a juicy preview of that sweet, sweet, HAL9000 AI update
zman804
Smash Ace
twitch.tv/azprojectmelee
We're live with a tournament starting real soon, casuals now. I've put some work in too get good mics and decent vid quality so please check us out!
We're live with a tournament starting real soon, casuals now. I've put some work in too get good mics and decent vid quality so please check us out!
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
You know what would be an amazing idea? A thread with all Project:M videos categorized and easy to find (maybe with exception of unimportant friendlies, pools matches, early bracket stuff, etc).
So say, official PMBR videos is one section, combo videos/compilations is another, high stakes matches like GFs is another, other is another, etc
So say, official PMBR videos is one section, combo videos/compilations is another, high stakes matches like GFs is another, other is another, etc
SpiderMad
Smash Master
- Joined
- May 6, 2012
- Messages
- 4,968
If you think you're active enough go ahead and make one, I'll submit every P:M Combo video I've seen. Including the nice v1 ones not much people have seen, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UqdEKUiplk
Spoon~
Smash Ace
I already forgot old ps2 was green.
HyperrCrow
Emotional Reality
Seriously, I'm too used to the P:M version
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
how have I not stumbled upon that video in my numerous searches of the youtubes for project m videos of the particular combo variety
see this is why we need a thread for that
somebody else should make it though I think, not sure I trust myself with its upkeep
see this is why we need a thread for that
somebody else should make it though I think, not sure I trust myself with its upkeep
GP&B
Ike 'n' Ike
I miss that Zelda.
| Kailex |
I smell like salty coins and milk
Change of topic as usual (or get ignored)- Attack on Titan, amazing as always
I have quite a few friends telling me that I need to watch Attack on Titan. Have yet to do it though. Have way too much on my plate that I still need to catch up on. I'm behind on a lot of my comics, need to watch Legend of Korra book 2, a small pile of video games that I need to finish... Figure I need to get that stuff taken care of before I add more.
| Kailex |
I smell like salty coins and milk
Since the 1st season finished, i dont think itll be much of a problem ya know; next season most likely coming out 2nd or 3rd quarter of 2014
I wonder how long it'll take the community to realize that Tier lists operate on a bell curve and there are always going to be bottom/low tiers and top/high tiers, regardless of how balanced the game is.
And what will actually matter when it comes down to it, is match ups. Not tier placements.
And what will actually matter when it comes down to it, is match ups. Not tier placements.
I don't think I will ever grasp the concept that a low tier is completely relative to the environment to which the tier list was created in. Low tier can mean nothing but garbage. NOTHING ELSE.
Neko has a point really. No matter what, tiers are basically a general and simplified matchup analysis. To say it in simpler terms, it's the result of an aggregation of matchup analyses.
Since it's comparative, it's not as simple as looking at one character and deciding that he's good based on his stats and moveset. Falco who was a Melee top tier for example, could theoretically be exactly the same as Melee and then be dethroned from top tier if more characters were made potent against him for example.He would not have changed, but his matchups would. Heck, I think it's possible that a melee top tier will actually be demoted to high tier when the metagame evolves further. You never know.
By keeping in mind that how good a character is is a comparative exercise, there is bound to be an average, and anything near that average will be classified as mid tier. Characters going above that average will be the high tiers and above, and characters going below that average will be low tier and below. It's bound to happen because every character is different. Now, the question isn't whether there are going to be tiers or not, because there will, but whether the difference between the viability between the characters will be a large one or not.
If bottom tier characters have a fairly believable chance at winning a major tournament, then the game is extremely well-balanced.
Since it's comparative, it's not as simple as looking at one character and deciding that he's good based on his stats and moveset. Falco who was a Melee top tier for example, could theoretically be exactly the same as Melee and then be dethroned from top tier if more characters were made potent against him for example.He would not have changed, but his matchups would. Heck, I think it's possible that a melee top tier will actually be demoted to high tier when the metagame evolves further. You never know.
By keeping in mind that how good a character is is a comparative exercise, there is bound to be an average, and anything near that average will be classified as mid tier. Characters going above that average will be the high tiers and above, and characters going below that average will be low tier and below. It's bound to happen because every character is different. Now, the question isn't whether there are going to be tiers or not, because there will, but whether the difference between the viability between the characters will be a large one or not.
If bottom tier characters have a fairly believable chance at winning a major tournament, then the game is extremely well-balanced.
#HBC | Joker
Space Marine
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2012
- Messages
- 3,864
- Location
- St. Clair Shores, Michigan
- NNID
- HBCJoker
- 3DS FC
- 1864-9780-3232
Replace "Falco" with "Jigglypuff" and you're describing something that actually happened.
Zef
Smash Ace
am i the only one that thinks ivy needs to be reworked
i mean i don't even hate zelda as much as this ****ing reptile
i mean i don't even hate zelda as much as this ****ing reptile
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
You are certainly not the only one, Zef.
Don't worry lol.
Don't worry lol.
Pwnz0rz Man
Smash Lord
Ivy is obnoxious, far more than any other character I've ever played against or with. Never have I felt as cheated or as much of a cheater as I do when playing with/against Ivysaur. Glad to know I'm not the only one that probably feels that way.
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
Thank you, Wave Kusanagi.
You are my 300th like.
Speaking of pokes, I think Squirtle is pretty hard to place right now. I don't think he's like, really good... but he's definitely not really bad. It's hard to think of a cluster of characters he belongs around. There isn't much rep... especially strong rep, so I don't get to see him much.
You are my 300th like.
Speaking of pokes, I think Squirtle is pretty hard to place right now. I don't think he's like, really good... but he's definitely not really bad. It's hard to think of a cluster of characters he belongs around. There isn't much rep... especially strong rep, so I don't get to see him much.
Pwnz0rz Man
Smash Lord
Squirtle definitely isn't bad. I remember having a lot of fun playing with him in 2.5 and now in 2.6. He was going to be my second character, but I've since moved on to the more enjoyable Game and Watch. It feels like for all of Squirtle's mobility and slipperiness, he lacks a certain something to really push the little turtle pokemon up the rankings where the fellow PKMN Trainer's pokes happen to be. I can't quite put my finger on what he's lacking though.
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
Yeah, I tend to kinda feel like "Why does that work?" when fighting ivy... I'm not gonna say she(he?) should be reworked though.
I'm gonna say that either we wait for anti-ivy metagame to develop, like it does for every character, OR PMBR reworks her/him/it. Surely there's a way around some of this stuff that we just haven't seen yet, ****'s sake, new stuff still shows up in melee after nearly 12 years and we assume we know a character is overdone after... less than a year? I think PMBR tends to get ahead of themselves and the community with their changes. I know they are convinced that they and the community thoroughly test these things, but if that were enough, Melee's metagame of ~8 characters over such a long lifespan with as many players as it has wouldn't have changed at all in recent years. Instead of waiting for people to learn to properly DI/SDI moves, or otherwise give the character move space based on their utility at neutral, PMBR tends to kind of neuter those moves. Which is okay if you want to micromanage the metagame forever.
What do people see as her problem moves though, I take it they are side-b, nair, jab-jab?
particularly in that order
on my shield
Ivy wouldn't be the first with that kind of pressure though, nor the first that can start it with a projectile.
I'm gonna say that either we wait for anti-ivy metagame to develop, like it does for every character, OR PMBR reworks her/him/it. Surely there's a way around some of this stuff that we just haven't seen yet, ****'s sake, new stuff still shows up in melee after nearly 12 years and we assume we know a character is overdone after... less than a year? I think PMBR tends to get ahead of themselves and the community with their changes. I know they are convinced that they and the community thoroughly test these things, but if that were enough, Melee's metagame of ~8 characters over such a long lifespan with as many players as it has wouldn't have changed at all in recent years. Instead of waiting for people to learn to properly DI/SDI moves, or otherwise give the character move space based on their utility at neutral, PMBR tends to kind of neuter those moves. Which is okay if you want to micromanage the metagame forever.
What do people see as her problem moves though, I take it they are side-b, nair, jab-jab?
particularly in that order
on my shield
Ivy wouldn't be the first with that kind of pressure though, nor the first that can start it with a projectile.
Zef
Smash Ace
to me it just seems ivy is a character that is hard to make for the person playing AND the person facing. before this patch she was incredibly weak and was no fun for the person playing her, and now she got a few tweaks and is incredibly obnoxious for the person facing her.
i felt biased because i mostly play CF and i can't find myself getting inside enough to actually do anything because of how OBNOXIOUS her razor leaf, back air, fair and downb are. but i started playing fox/falco vs her and it's still hyper gay, feels like some **** chris g would play all day
i felt biased because i mostly play CF and i can't find myself getting inside enough to actually do anything because of how OBNOXIOUS her razor leaf, back air, fair and downb are. but i started playing fox/falco vs her and it's still hyper gay, feels like some **** chris g would play all day
Ivysaur is annoying because
A. She plays an insanely good keepaway game cause razor leaf
B. She's good at poking and landing hits at a safe distance due to disjointed vines
C. Has decent or good-enough Oos options (Nair)
D. Bair has a crazy range
E. Hard to edgeguard because she has a pretty good recovery.
F. Not too light, not too heavy
G. Nair comes at quick, does a lot of damage, and sends you far away (from Ivy)
H. Comboing with her is relatively easy since many of her moves have large hitboxes, plus they do tons of damage
I. Pretty good at edgeguarding because of Bair
J. SYNTHESIS. Its not amazing but its definitely demoralizing
K. So is Solarbeam
L. Leech seed and stun spore add insult to injury
M. Uair rockets her down, allowing her to escape some aerial combos and traps
N. Razor Leaf not only has a large hitbox, but it drags the opponent farther away, distancing yourself farther away from Ivy
O. Synthesis has very quick start-up, allowing Ivy to use it to escape combos or pressure (though Nair usually works better)
And probably more.
A. She plays an insanely good keepaway game cause razor leaf
B. She's good at poking and landing hits at a safe distance due to disjointed vines
C. Has decent or good-enough Oos options (Nair)
D. Bair has a crazy range
E. Hard to edgeguard because she has a pretty good recovery.
F. Not too light, not too heavy
G. Nair comes at quick, does a lot of damage, and sends you far away (from Ivy)
H. Comboing with her is relatively easy since many of her moves have large hitboxes, plus they do tons of damage
I. Pretty good at edgeguarding because of Bair
J. SYNTHESIS. Its not amazing but its definitely demoralizing
K. So is Solarbeam
L. Leech seed and stun spore add insult to injury
M. Uair rockets her down, allowing her to escape some aerial combos and traps
N. Razor Leaf not only has a large hitbox, but it drags the opponent farther away, distancing yourself farther away from Ivy
O. Synthesis has very quick start-up, allowing Ivy to use it to escape combos or pressure (though Nair usually works better)
And probably more.