Project M Social Thread Gold

[Oracle]

Oh pictochat dont even remind me! It would be perfect if pmbr got off their lazy butts and fixed the ledge on that one transformation but noooooooo instead we need 10 yoshi colors and a golden hammer nerf

 

[Saito]

Leafeon's ***, doe

Did someone say Besteon?

 

[Nausicaa]

It took Nana falling to her death at the start of matches to finally get the "No character should start a match teetering on a ledge directly inside the hair of another character" addressed.
HASHTAGscrewNorfair
Stuff gets done though, so it's great this way.
I'd take the golden hammer nerf NOW and the epic stage LATER over having patch updates exclusively for a bonus Yoshi collections from the moment the 'good' stuff is done, forever after.

 

[Bleck]

There's a difference between a transition and an existing entity that you could time his appearances quite easily with the match timer.

What Plum said - the stage transitions on Castle Siege aren't random.

Which is fine in casual play. But in a tournament?

I don't see why this is relevant.

 

[Empyrean]

I actually wish we'd get a viable Halberd. It's like my favorite stage from any Smash. Wouldn't removing the laser canon and the bombs be enough? (seriously though, the last hitbox on the laser is crazy) It's not like the transition at the start and on the ship are game-breaking...

 

[Plum]

Halberd is great, and they got rid of the claw which was the only hazard you could really make an argument for being problematic.
The laser and bomb are both incredibly easy to avoid, and offer a great chance to use them to your advantage. I actually like being targeted by the laser to be honest because you're in control of where it fires, and you can do things like laser edgeguarding.

 

[PillsBuryDopeBoy]

Big Blue will never see the light of day.... *sigh*

 

[Empyrean]

Halberd is great, and they got rid of the claw which was the only hazard you could really make an argument for being problematic.
The laser and bomb are both incredibly easy to avoid, and offer a great chance to use them to your advantage. I actually like being targeted by the laser to be honest because you're in control of where it fires, and you can do things like laser edgeguarding.

I had never taught of that before. And I agree, I hardly notice the laser and the bomb whenever I play there. If the stage has one serious issue however, it's that ****ty camera.

 

[Ginge]

I don't see why this is relevant.

Your argument was that it meant "Oh darn, you have to play more Smash Bros." In casual play, that's fine. In a tournament, you want to win. And you want to win fast.

 

[Plum]

Your argument was that it meant "Oh darn, you have to play more Smash Bros." In casual play, that's fine. In a tournament, you want to win. And you want to win fast.

And I submit that the transition saving them is no different than Randall saving them considering they are both on timers, and a savvy opponent can recover in a way to take advantage of this fact (or just lucksack it). If you're argument against Castle Siege is the transitions saves people sometimes it's pretty poor.
So ban Yoshi's Story, right?

 

[SunJester]

All this talk begs the question, how many more competitive stages does P:M need? Are our neutrals not neutral enough? Are our counter-picks too much of a counter-pick? I think instead of wanting a stage, we should address what that stage would add to the current metagame. Same with removing a stage.

I think given the ability of the PMBR to add and remove stages this is something that should be hotly debating, especially considering how much it effects the development of the metagame.

 

[Bleck]

Yeah, what Plum said. Also, what if you landed an attack on somebody, but then a moving platform on any other stage were to just happen to move into their trajectory and prevent them from being KO'd, or combo'd? Better ban Smashville, Dracula's Castle, Yoshi's Island...

 

[Ginge]

I guess we just have different ideas on which stages should be tournament legal. You're not likely to convince me of your opinion that transitioning stages should be there as I am to convince you of mine against it. So I'm just going to let it go.

 

[PsionicSabreur]

Castle Siege is a reasonable stage for competition, in my opinion, but I think it's also held back a little because the transition speed is dependent on loading times, so it is unpredictable in that respect.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

Pictochat is the best tourney legal (or tourney viable) transforming stage. Remember when ps1 went to page 2 and and when lylat went to page 1? Yeah that should definitely happen again pmbr pictochat actually has decent counterpick potential rather than having two pses.

 

[Oracle]

Stage lists always come down to opinion. As long as a stage isnt overcentralizing or too drastic then its good for competitive play bc more variety =bigger skillset tested=more skillful game. But most players disagree on what skills should or shouldnt be tested in tournament, which isnt something you can objectify. Even worse is complications from how easy it should be to strike or how many bans or what have you.

 

[SpiderMad]

There's some good stuff on The Slip, but I feel like everything else from With Teeth and forward has been pretty bland.
The Fragile is my favorite of the stuff he's done; I doubt it'll ever be that good again.

His newest (2013) takes the blandness to a whole new level

Whenever I have google chrome fix correct a typo it resets the font of the sentence to be really small

Also Chicago is apparently not using Skyworld or Rumble falls anymore in their tournaments since "everyone bans it anyway", I'm fine with the Rumble falls but what the hell with Skyworld? Too many spacies I made start bannin it and now it's gone

 

[SunJester]

I'm on board with PS1 getting the shaft and something else taking its place.

Just for the redundancy of it. Not to mention the Fire and Rock transformations slow down the match immensely. I swear every time someone counter-picks to PS1 you're adding another 2 minutes (at least) onto the match. In a tournament setting that's really not a good thing as it just makes everything run longer.

 

[Bleck]

But most players disagree on what skills should or shouldnt be tested in tournament, which isnt something you can objectify.

Yes you can! Just watch me;

Players who argue that certain stages shouldn't be allowed in tournaments are arguing as such because they don't have the skills do deal with them. When someone says "I don't think this stage is valid in professional play", what they're really saying is "I consider skilled in this particular metagame, and I'm fearful of anything that might shake it up too much".

It's not a matter of subjective opinion, it's a matter of players attempting to narrow down gameplay to something they themselves are skilled at, at the exclusion of things that they feel may put them at a disadvantage at any point. It is, objectively, a Johns.

(That all being said, even I think vanilla WarioWare is not really acceptable; the minigames themselves are okay, but the rewards for succeeding at them shouldn't happen (i.e someone being grounded because they didn't jump at the right time is okay, but the player who doesn't also getting a free Starman or etc. is not.)

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Couldn't the inverse be true, Bleck? Couldn't a player focus on a stage's gimmick overmuch and it be considered "skilled at this facet of the metagame?"

If you ask me, your argument's a bit faulty, and is still subjective to boot.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Bleck]

Couldn't the inverse be true, Bleck? Couldn't a player focus on a stage's gimmick overmuch and it be considered "skilled at this facet of the metagame?"

No, because every stage has a "gimmick" - it's just that the "gimmick" of "competitive stages" happens to be something that's conducive to the metagame (open space for projectiles, flat planes for combos and tech chases, mostly stationary stages so the players never have to think about movement in a way that isn't binary).

 

[Smooth Criminal]

True, but your example still falls under that whole aegis. It becomes a matter of what metagame, not a metagame. Which is what Oracle was talking about.

Smooth Criminal

 

[DrinkingFood]

no, keep ps1
wall combos are fun as ****

 

[Kati]

I'm on board with PS1 getting the shaft and something else taking its place.

Just for the redundancy of it. Not to mention the Fire and Rock transformations slow down the match immensely. I swear every time someone counter-picks to PS1 you're adding another 2 minutes (at least) onto the match. In a tournament setting that's really not a good thing as it just makes everything run longer.

And yet my tree-less and pit-less version gets no attention. D:

edit*

Have any of the stages on the first page that tend to be permanently banned been shown to be over-centralizing?

 

[KayB]

The main reason why I like Halberd so much is that you can go through the stage as a recovery/ledge option. Plus, there isn't a high top platform and the stage isn't too big (during the portion where you can go through the stage), so survivability and camping isn't really an issue.

 

[Wolf_]

It took Nana falling to her death at the start of matches to finally get the "No character should start a match teetering on a ledge directly inside the hair of another character" addressed.
HASHTAGscrewNorfair
Stuff gets done though, so it's great this way.
I'd take the golden hammer nerf NOW and the epic stage LATER over having patch updates exclusively for a bonus Yoshi collections from the moment the 'good' stuff is done, forever after.

Nana still dies at the start on Norfair for me, and I have 3.02

 

[Bleck]

True, but your example still falls under that whole aegis. It becomes a matter of what metagame, not a metagame. Which is what Oracle was talking about.

Yes, and what I'm saying is that having an opinion about what metagame is valid is an irrational thing, because people are inherently going to favor the one's that support how they play the game. It's not that people can't have opinions about it - it's that their opinions about it should be irrelevant.

Also, stop signing your posts! It's weird and stupid.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Yes, and what I'm saying is that having an opinion about what metagame is valid is an irrational thing, because people are inherently going to favor the one's that support how they play the game. It's not that people can't have opinions about it - it's that their opinions about it should be irrelevant.

As long as it's treated as an opinion, and not something absolute, then I fail to see a problem.

Also, stop signing your posts! It's weird and stupid.

Nope. Here, I'll even do it again.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Saito]

Also, stop signing your posts! It's weird and stupid.

Would it be wrong to assume that you have been hit by a smooth criminal?

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

The worst part about ps1 is how the camera zooms out during a transformation, whereas it was static in melee.

 

[Bleck]

As long as it's treated as an opinion, and not something absolute, then I fail to see a problem.

Yeah, see, I'm not doing that. I'm not saying that, in my opinion, this is a thing that's happening, because this is a thing that's happening. Objectively.

 

[Nausicaa]

Nana still dies at the start on Norfair for me, and I have 3.02

I abandoned Norfair... and will only resurrect it when I update it with the extension pack I used to use.
Thanks for informing me that it's still screwed.
HASHTAGscrewNorfair
ForeverforgetNorfair.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Yeah, see, I'm not doing that. I'm not saying that, in my opinion, this is a thing that's happening, because this is a thing that's happening. Objectively.

My brain.

Well, I guess the only objective determination we can make here is that this post will end with my user name.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Bleck]

Would it be wrong to assume that you have been hit by a smooth criminal?

 

[Guilu]

no, keep ps1
wall combos are fun as ****

They only happen on that one stage at this point though.
And don't we still have wall infinites to worry about ?

We should probably open a stage discussion thread.

 

[Saito]

Ok guys.

I'm about to breed Pokemon.

On Black 2 Version

Wish me luck, I'm going to need it. ;_;

 

[Gamegenie222]

May the gods of luck smile on you B/W 2 is not that bad.

 

[Bleck]

Ok guys.

I'm about to breed Pokemon.

On Black 2 Version

Wish me luck, I'm going to need it. ;_;

Gross, dude.

 

[Nausicaa]

Here's a funny story for you regarding Subjectivity (AKA Opinion/Perspective/etc)

If someone wants to express something >> we'll use a painting as an easy example >> so if an artist wants to paint a picture that is purely an expression of something, then the artist can't be the one to do the act of making the piece of art. They cannot be the one who paints the picture.
If an artist wants to paint something as an expression for their love of the moon (another easy example), they can't ALSO paint the picture. If they do the act of painting the picture, the expression of their love for the moon isn't the only thing to come through in the art. In the act of painting itself, they'll inevitably have a trace of another expression.
They'll be expressing their "wanting" to express the expression (the love for the moon) and therefore, the expression of "love for the moon" can never be actually what the painting is about.
A painting, therefore, can only ever be an expression of the "want to express" within the person.
Like this post. This isn't me expressing this concept. It's me expressing the want to express this concept.

So, an artist painting a picture, if wanting to have the picture be an expression of their love for the moon, and nothing else, can NOT do the actual action of painting the picture itself.

Hence the concept that many people in 'expressive' work say things like "it just came to me" or "gotta be in the zone" or "it just flowed through me" or whatever, is literally the only way an artist can even be true to their own art. They have to be essentially unconscious of the "act" of doing it, to do it in any form of purity, in any state of being that will actually express what they "Want" to express, without expressing the "Want" in the process.

This means, the development of ability in something, traces back to developing yourself in a way that the state of being you "Want" to be in, is no longer something you "Want" and it just is.
The natural state of being becoming the ideal state of being, without idealizing it.
The Training and Taming of the auto-pilot. Not the loss of it, not the shattering of the foundation, not the flashy flare, not the NEXT META or where the Meta is now, but the QUALITIES of the auto-pilot, the QUALITIES of the foundation and construction, the QUALITIES of the meta-game.
Meta-game isn't subjective, nor can you subjectively interpret what "abilities" should be tossed aside or brought to the surface through manipulation of actions, but instead, the only ability that will ever actually develop, and ever actually be lacking subjective interpretation (meaning universal) is the development of ability itself. The development of abilities, as an ability, will develop regardless of perspective (perspective developing is a product of this) or of tangible skills (another product of this same source).

Funny story, this game of not getting hit, and hitting others.

Edit: Spelling

 

[SpiderMad]

Glad to have you back lol