Project M Social Thread Gold

[GHNeko]

They dont know game design, but like most game players, they will know what isnt fun and what is.

They'll also be more proficient at helping a team balance a game.

 

[Kurri ★]

They dont know game design, but like most game players, they will know what isnt fun and what is.

They'll also be more proficient at helping a team balance a game.

I mean every person does, but are they good enough to actually provide goid feedback (pretty sure these two are)? I don't think I'd want M2K giving me feedback on how to make my game.

 

[GHNeko]

lets be honest though, if M2K complains about something being too strong, there is a good likelyhood its actually pretty good and doesnt need nerfing lolololol

 

[Strong Badam]

working at subway

**** sucks

 

[shairn]

Why would you work when you can play smash for a living

 

[Jolteon]

working at subway

**** sucks

My condolences.

 

[Strong Badam]

Why would you work when you can play smash for a living

The only smash game I enjoy playing is also the only one where that's not a viable strategy.

 

[Grey Belnades]

see some of yall at genesis later 2day :3c

Where you at nerd? I wanna body you already. Genie can watch the onslaught.

Why would you work when you can play smash for a living

But my favorite Smash game is dead and it's carcass is being possessed by a demonic spirit.

 

[Kushina43]

Found the L Cancel reddit thread
Curse my morbid curiosity

 

[shairn]

The only smash game I enjoy playing is also the only one where that's not a viable strategy.

You know what they say


Just pick a top tier

 

[CORY]

but tfw no nationals bcuz ninty or somesuch

 

[GHNeko]

You know what they say


Just pick a top tier

I feel like me and shairn could hang out irl.

 

[PandaPanda Senketsu]

working at subway

**** sucks

You're the type of guy who just drenches my sandwich in sweet onion sauce to the point where it becomes a soggy mush patty.

 

[CORY]

well, he sure as hell will now.

 

[Strong Badam]

You're the type of guy who just drenches my sandwich in sweet onion sauce to the point where it becomes a soggy mush patty.

3 lines is all I do son.

 

[Bleck]

Hopefully it won't be all Melee players, else I fear Bleck will suffer an aneurysm.

it should be fine as long as they keep it to the ones that are smart enough to see we don't need stuff like l-canceling and crouch canceling and edgehogging and etc.

 

[Kushina43]

[...]we don't need stuff like l-canceling and crouch canceling and edgehogging and etc.

Bolded emphasis to ask why this is necessarily a bad thing? I would assume it's because it forces onstage recovery, but I don't personally see how that's a design flaw

 

[MechWarriorNY]

If you got knocked offstage in the first place, getting denied a chance back up there should be part of the game. Don't get hit, and

 

[Bleck]

Bolded emphasis to ask why this is necessarily a bad thing? I would assume it's because it forces onstage recovery, but I don't personally see how that's a design flaw

I'll explain when I get home from work, but the short version is that it skews balance in favor of characters with vertical or multiple recoveries (even in PM, honestly) while not really adding any meaningful depth or interactions to the game

 

[DrinkingFood]

working at subway

**** sucks

Cold cut combo footlong on Italian herbs and cheese with American cheese, no I don't want it toasted but can I get some toasted bacon on it, lettuce onions tomatoes mayonnaise honey mustard and salt and pepper. That'll be it.

Memorize this because I'm gonna find out where you work and come ask you to make me the usual.

 

[shairn]

>>>>>>Not toasted

I'm more of a steak & cheese footlong on herbs with cheddar, toasted and topped with onions, lettuce, banana peppers, chipotle sauce and sriracha with salt&pepper.

-snap-
I feel like me and shairn could hang out irl.

Idk I think I'm pretty boring to hang out with

 

[standardtoaster]

http://oddshot.tv/shot/showdownsmash2-20160116246979

triple r Kreygasm

 

[GHNeko]

Idk I think I'm pretty boring to hang out with

maybe who knows what garbage we'd do

 

[GHNeko]

I'll explain when I get home from work, but the short version is that it skews balance in favor of characters with vertical or multiple recoveries (even in PM, honestly) while not really adding any meaningful depth or interactions to the game

this is not inherently a bad thing. it is just a thing.

what matters is how it works in the grand scheme of things.

 

[TheDarkMysteryMan]

>>>>>>Not toasted

I'm more of a steak & cheese footlong on herbs with cheddar, toasted and topped with onions, lettuce, banana peppers, chipotle sauce and sriracha with salt&pepper.


Idk I think I'm pretty boring to hang out with

I would love to chat with the most of you guys irl. Especially Bleck because he seems to know how to make a healthy argument.

 

[PMS | Tink-er]

i work at subway too.

i hate all of you. never get something microwaved just because you don't want crunchy bread. i will give you hard bread.

 

[Bazkip]

Somebody call Nintendo

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[GHNeko]

i work at...

oh w8

i dont work at all

 

[PandaPanda Senketsu]

Cold cut combo footlong on Italian herbs and cheese with American cheese, no I don't want it toasted but can I get some toasted bacon on it, lettuce onions tomatoes mayonnaise honey mustard and salt and pepper. That'll be it.

Memorize this because I'm gonna find out where you work and come ask you to make me the usual.

I see you're a somewhat skilled subway veteran, but you peep ma hot sandwich game

Italian herb and cheese toasted, chicken and bacon, Pepper jack cheese, Lettuce, onions, peppers, Southwest chipotle sauce, sweet onion sauce (DONT ****ING DRENCH IT), and yes i would like some cool ranch doritos and an Arnold Palmer. And if im really feeling savage that day ill get a chocolate chip cookie or two.

I expect it done in under 2 minutes

 

[PMS | Tink-er]

I see you're a somewhat skilled subway veteran, but you peep ma hot sandwich game

Italian herb and cheese toasted, chicken and bacon, Pepper jack cheese, Lettuce, onions, peppers, Southwest chipotle sauce, sweet onion sauce (DONT ****ING DRENCH IT), and yes i would like some cool ranch doritos and an Arnold Palmer. And if im really feeling savage that day ill get a chocolate chip cookie or two.

I expect it done in under 2 minutes

you didn't tell us what kind of meat is in your sandwich. are you ordering another cold cut or would you like a veggie delight.

 

[Jonyc128]

Umm yes i'll take a footlong steak and pepperjack cheese on flatbread; toasted, with lots of onions, a tiny bit of lettuce, green peppers, southwest chipotle, honey mustard, salt and pepper and oregano. Oh and a drink too please

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

I'll go to quizno's

 

[GHNeko]

ill make my own sandwich

 

[Kurri ★]

I'll go to quizno's

>Quizno's

You may as well just eat feces at this point. Subway is garbage, but Quizno's is worse

 

[GHNeko]

Quizno's soups is delicious tho.

 

[KakuCP9]

I am an immensely simple man. I just have a oven roasted chicken without any toppings and milk. Half the time the employees look at me like I'm a weirdo (and rightly so). Other times they're relived that they barely have to do anything to make my order.

 

[Strong Badam]

i work at subway too.

i hate all of you. never get something microwaved just because you don't want crunchy bread. i will give you hard bread.

so are we like related now?


it should only take me a couple weeks to figure out the Best (tm) Subway(tm) Sandwich possible. tuna/american and egg/steak/pepper jack are the current leaders.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

quiznos is the best I will fight you

 

[Bleck]

Kushina43 also

this is not inherently a bad thing. it is just a thing.

Skewing balance is a bad thing. Characters should not have an inherent advantage over other characters by virtue of a mechanic that doesn't actually need to exist.

The problem inherent with edgehogging is not related to edgeguarding - being able to prevent your opponent from getting back to the stage should be something that's a part of the game, else there'd be no point to there even being an offstage at all. The thing is, though, edgehogging being possible is unhealthy for the game for two reasons;

1) It screws over any character that doesn't have reliable mixups in their recovery. Just going by Melee alone, every high tier (and most of the mid tier) characters have recovery mixups (e.g Fox/Falco has his up and side specials, Sheik's up special is aimable, Jiggs can weave, Peach has float and up special, etc), so edgehogging isn't always reliable because characters have the choice to try something else that may not be covered by your edgehog. So then, why is it problematic? Because uniformly, going down the tier list, characters have less and less ways to deal with edgehogging - starting with E tier (and skipping Mario), Ganondorf only has his up special. Link and Young Link have wall grapples, but they're so slow and predictable that most of the high tier characters can punish them hard for trying it. Donkey Kong's up special barely goes upwards. Et cetera.

Most of these characters can supposedly circumvent this weakness by going to the stage, but in most cases, the problem ends up being that going to the stage is asking to be punished by a higher tier character - half of the characters in Melee being nearly unplayable in the current metagame is because of the Hobson's choice of [A: get edgehogged, or B: get gimped/spiked/Fox up smashed/etc.]. And even if you think that's not necessarily a bad thing, because not every character is going to be viable in a fighting game, the real problem is;

2) Similarly to l-canceling, the mechanic doesn't actually add any reasonable amount of interesting depth to the game by existing. You always do it. Is your opponent offstage? Grab the ledge. They're either going to miss their recovery as a result, or have to go onto the stage, which is likely going to be so slow that you get an additional punish on them, for trying the only action they could in that situation. It's not interesting, it's certainly not exciting, and it especially doesn't take any skill (some people might say at this point that you need to time edgehog correctly for invincibility frames, but that's reaching) - so, if given the opportunity to make it better, why would anyone choose to keep it? And here's the thing - while there's no widely accepted tier list, I posit that every character in PM3.6 that can't reliably deal with edgehogging is one of the less good characters. A quick google search for 'pm 3.6 tier list' gives me Junebug's tier list, in which he says that the bottom tier characters are Ness (no recovery mixup, easily gimped), Dedede (no recovery mixup, easily punished up special), Ice Climbers (no recovery mixup, easily gimped), Olimar (no recovery mixup, easily gimped), Zelda (no recovery mixup, easily gimped), Donkey Kong (no recovery mixup, easily gimped), Charizard (notably does have recovery mixups, but is just, you know, terrible) and Bowser (no recovery mixup, easiest character to gimp in the game). Even in the game that tried to re-balance everyone and make everyone viable, the existence of edgehogging arguably puts eight (or more!) characters at a significant disadvantage, for no reason (I can't even say "bcuz Maylay", because edgehogging was still a thing in Brawl)!

 

[Fortress]

Why would you work when you can play smash for a living

Or model. I mean, you've seen yourself, right, SB?