Project M Social Thread Gold

[Bleck]

**** nintendo. they've done nothing for us

see you people keep saying this as if Nintendo didn't literally make all of these games

even PM, despite all the work put into it, is just taking one thing that Nintendo did and making it into a copy of another thing, for better and for worse

the only other context it makes sense to say "they've done nothing for us" is "they never gave us money to do tournaments" and the only reason you're complaining now is because they're doing that

remember earlier when I said "entitlement issues"

 

[Fortress]

Anybody still upset about PM not being able to get nationals needs to get over it already. Christ, I mean, what did you expect. Just play the game.

 

[CORY]

PM would be Skullgirls. It's basically Marvel, but not Marvel. Or maybe it's UMvC3 and Melee is MvC2

I dunno about skullgirls. It doesn't quite change the formula enough.

I think I can accept mvc2 and umvc3 comparison, tho

 

[Kurri ★]

Anybody still upset about PM not being able to get nationals needs to get over it already. Christ, I mean, what did you expect. Just play the game.

I don't think you can blame people for getting upset (although I do feel the entitlement is dumb). The PM community has been pretty much severed from the rest of Smash when it comes to major tournaments.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

I dunno about skullgirls. It doesn't quite change the formula enough.

I think I can accept mvc2 and umvc3 comparison, tho

pm allstar stamina mode with infinite blast zones is like maybe halfway close to skullgirls

 

[Deotay]

something having taken a lot of time or effort to do does not make it immune to criticism

Being "indie ****" is not a valid criticism. I was his roommate. I know his problems with indie games are primarily aesthetic.

 

[Kurri ★]

Being "indie ****" is not a valid criticism. I was his roommate. I know his problems with indie games are primarily aesthetic.

You know me too well :^)

I still don't care about it.

 

[Fortress]

Hell, I don't like Rivals because it's indie. It's not going to get anywhere, and I absolutely challenge it to do otherwise.

 

[Kurri ★]

Hell, I don't like Rivals because it's indie. It's not going to get anywhere, and I absolutely challenge it to do otherwise.

Skullgirls is indie and it's going somewhere >.>

I just think Rivals looks dumb

 

[Bleck]

I don't think you can blame people for getting upset (although I do feel the entitlement is dumb). The PM community has been pretty much severed from the rest of Smash when it comes to major tournaments.

I just think that "I'm upset about PM " is much different from "man, ****, ****, nintendo is, the worst, oh my god, how can these troglodytes even like nintendo, ugh, GOD"

Being "indie ****" is not a valid criticism. I was his roommate. I know his problems with indie games are primarily aesthetic.

"it's not a valid criticism" is not a valid criticism

the idea that it looks like garbage is not only a valid criticism, it's also totally true

like if you're gonna have sprites at least make them look good

 

[Fortress]

It's pixel Smash for furries, I just don't get the appeal.

 

[Kurri ★]

"it's not a valid criticism" is not a valid criticism

the idea that it looks like garbage is not only a valid criticism, it's also totally true

like if you're gonna have sprites at least make them look good

I mean, they're not bad, I just don't care for them. Plus the music sucks. And I just don't care for the game.

Thank god Deotay can't tear me a new one for saying this anymore.

It's pixel Smash for furries, I just don't get the appeal.

It's fast paced, and it plays sorta like smash. It's pretty much what people were asking for.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

except it has clunky mechanics and movement, no shield or ledgegrabbing, and is kinda a ***** to set up for gamecube controller

 

[Bleck]

no ledgegrabbing

"alright so the first thing we're gonna do with our platform fighter is make damn sure that the platform part doesn't actually matter"

 

[PMS | Tink-er]

see you people keep saying this as if Nintendo didn't literally make all of these games

even PM, despite all the work put into it, is just taking one thing that Nintendo did and making it into a copy of another thing, for better and for worse

the only other context it makes sense to say "they've done nothing for us" is "they never gave us money to do tournaments" and the only reason you're complaining now is because they're doing that

remember earlier when I said "entitlement issues"

this is where the absentee father parallel i drew comes in, man. nintendo made the games but then basically stayed completely uninvolved in their competitive scenes for 20 years but now that we've made something out of them they want a slice of the pie. nintendo made the games, but they didn't make the metagames, and at this point we don't play the games as nintendo made them, we play what we made out of them. melee got as popular as a competitive title as it is today without nintendo support (evo '13 tho), but now nintendo wants to cash us in for splatoon ads and put rules on our community because they technically own the IP. they're technically our father but they've been uninvolved for 14 years and now they want to get involved because we're successful. you can blabber on about how it's legal all you want, but i think it's wholly immoral and am entirely against it.

 

[Bleck]

they stayed uninvolved because they weren't intended to be competitive games (and honestly it shows)

the only reason they're becoming involved with competitive melee and smash 4 now is because the latter was built with the possibility of a competitive focus in mind, and because of the former's extremely tenacious community

melee's continued popularity is also a consistent negative on other smash titles (and their competitive scenes), so it only makes sense to try and profit off of that as well as long as it's going to be hurting your profits at the same time

 

[Kurri ★]

"alright so the first thing we're gonna do with our platform fighter is make damn sure that the platform part doesn't actually matter"

How many platformers have ledgegrabbing?

except it has clunky mechanics and movement, no shield or ledgegrabbing, and is kinda a ***** to set up for gamecube controller

Is it? I've never played it

this is where the absentee father parallel i drew comes in, man. nintendo made the games but then basically stayed completely uninvolved in their competitive scenes for 20 years but now that we've made something out of them they want a slice of the pie. nintendo made the games, but they didn't make the metagames, and at this point we don't play the games as nintendo made them, we play what we made out of them. melee got as popular as a competitive title as it is today without nintendo support (evo '13 tho), but now nintendo wants to cash us in for splatoon ads and put rules on our community because they technically own the IP. they're technically our father but they've been uninvolved for 14 years and now they want to get involved because we're successful. you can blabber on about how it's legal all you want, but i think it's wholly immoral and am entirely against it.

I don't think you can actually equate Nintendo to an absentee father. When you buy a copy of a game, you're just buying the license, Nintendo can still do whatever they please because it's their license. They're more like that friend you borrowed something from, and you did something really cool with what you borrowed, but it's still theirs, if they want it back, you can't really tell them no.

 

[DrinkingFood]

What a surprise. Yet another platform-based fighting game "Made by tourney players for tourney players" is going to totally forget that the pool of loyal fans you mainly draw from for a competitive audience are casual players first. Let's remember all the times this has succeeded: ?

They're gonna probably make some mediocre soulless game with a competitive focus and forget to give the world or characters a personality. Smash isn't heavy on this, but it's carried on the personality that's been imbued through the games the characters/stages are drawn from. The mechanics in this new game might be a good rework of melee, or a good original design with only hints of melee, but that doesn't really matter. It'll sell like 1k copies on steam or some **** because the only advertising pull they'll have will appeal to competitive smash players (and not even all of them) due to the lack of interesting characters or quirky casual appeal, they'll have no funds to support community events, and it'll die a quick quiet death.

 

[Rᴏb]

> due to the lack of interesting characters or quirky casual appeal

just because it isn't nintendo doesn't mean this isn't possible. i think it's smarter to wait for them to show us something than to immediately go the debbie downer route. stranger things have happened than a videogame becoming successful.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

or just make everything moebait which is scientifically proven to work at selling games

on the minus side I'll hate them forever

edit: speaking of soulless competitive games, who still plays rising thunder anymore?

 

[Kurri ★]

> due to the lack of interesting characters or quirky casual appeal

just because it isn't nintendo doesn't mean this isn't possible. i think it's smarter to wait for them to show us something than to immediately go the debbie downer route. stranger things have happened than a videogame becoming successful.

He wasn't saying that because it's not Nintendo they won't do it, but that typically devs that push for the whole "By competitive players, for competitive players" schtick usually forget about it. Rivals of Aether comes to mind, I don't see it going anywhere outside of niche.

or just make everything moebait which is scientifically proven to work at selling games

on the minus side I'll hate them forever

edit: speaking of soulless competitive games, who still plays rising thunder anymore?

Rising thunder is soulless?

 

[Fortress]

Rising thunder is soulless?

Robots are literally the subject matter, so, I guess.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

"alright so the first thing we're gonna do with our platform fighter is make damn sure that the platform part doesn't actually matter"

also there's no grabbing and last time I played I couldn't seem to drop through platforms

no grabs are a weird design decision (but I guess it sort of makes sense since there's no shielding or blocking that grabs could beat??) but the weird sensitivity issues with platform dropping (apparently it's possible I just couldn't do it because of settings or whatever) is the clunky issue coming into play

and yeah who looked at rising thunder and was like yeah I really love the character design

 

[Kurri ★]

also there's no grabbing and last time I played I couldn't seem to drop through platforms

no grabs are a weird design decision (but I guess it sort of makes sense since there's no shielding or blocking that grabs could beat??) but the weird sensitivity issues with platform dropping (apparently it's possible I just couldn't do it because of settings or whatever) is the clunky issue coming into play

and yeah who looked at rising thunder and was like yeah I really love the character design

Well I don't care for the character design, but I'm not sure if I'd say the game is soulless.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

parrying would be a cool mechanic if it wasn't literally the only defensive option aside from an air/spotdodge

but it's not so it just kinda makes for a weirdly volatile game with a bit of button mashing because if your buttons catch somebody else's buttons you can convert for a bit of damage

like there's still counterplay between buttons or moving but it vastly takes away from the traditional fighting game rps of attack/block/throw

 

[Rᴏb]

He wasn't saying that because it's not Nintendo they won't do it, but that typically devs that push for the whole "By competitive players, for competitive players" schtick usually forget about it. Rivals of Aether comes to mind, I don't see it going anywhere outside of niche.

They forget about it for good reason; it severely limits their audience. Hopefully WDgames drops that as their main selling point in the future.

And I wasn't saying DF said that, I was saying that you guys assuming the worst and comparing this future game to smash before we know anything about it is dumb.

Oh and I was considering getting Rivals of Aether. Is it as bad as you guys are saying or what? My impression was that it was frustrating, but still fun. Like 3.02 or something.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

no 3.02 was just bonkers but it still had a deep, albeit skewed, neutral and punish game

I'd argue that roa is a bit shallower than 3.02

 

[xquqx]

Oh and I was considering getting Rivals of Aether. Is it as bad as you guys are saying or what? My impression was that it was frustrating, but still fun. Like 3.02 or something.

It's pretty fun. It could use a netplay ladder, that would help with a lot of the frustration that I had with the game, but then again it is still in early access so I'm sure it'll come with time. Some of these issues that are being brought up seem like person issues with poor controller set ups, since I haven't had any issues with controlling the game. It isn't as deep as PM though, but it's still fun.

 

[TheDarkMysteryMan]

I just took a look at the thread and saw the news...I am not happy...not happy.

I was planning on taking my brother to paragon, paying for him to try his very first match in a majors. But seeing how he started off with Pm and not the other titles, he doesn't want to go anymore.

The question is why they did this? (Of curse the easiest answer I'll hear is that smash is now a business, or something)

 

[Fortress]

I just took a look at the thread and saw the news...I am not happy...not happy.

I was planning on taking my brother to paragon, paying for him to try his very first match in a majors. But seeing how he started off with Pm and not the other titles, he doesn't want to go anymore.

The question is why they did this? (Of curse the easiest answer I'll hear is that smash is now a business, or something)

The answer is that it's their property, and they can do damn well what they please with it. That really shouldn't be a surprise to anybody.

 

[TheDarkMysteryMan]

The answer is that it's their property, and they can do damn well what they please with it. That really shouldn't be a surprise to anybody.

I was referring to the TO's decisions, not the company in whole. I mean, didn't PM generate the highest pot for their Tournament, and it was even a side event?

 

[Kurri ★]

I was referring to the TO's decisions, not the company in whole. I mean, didn't PM generate the highest pot for their Tournament, and it was even a side event?

I know there was something about losing a ton of sponsors last year because they kept PM.

 

[TheDarkMysteryMan]

I know there was something about losing a ton of sponsors last year because they kept PM.

But why? I hate to be on a bandwagon, but having this happen to us again, and it was just a side event again, but i have to think something big is happening. I hate it, but it's making me more paranoid the more i think about it.

 

[Fortress]

Something already happened. Past-tense.

 

[Kurri ★]

But why? I hate to be on a bandwagon, but having this happen to us again, and it was just a side event again, but i have to think something big is happening. I hate it, but it's making me more paranoid the more i think about it.

Sponsors help run huge tournies, losing sponsors is bad for huge tournies.

 

[TheDarkMysteryMan]

Something already happened. Past-tense.

No. I'm implying that this is still ongoing and has not past completely.

 

[Player -0]

Who cares. Oh no, somebody on the internet is about to do something really serious, guys. Totally for real. What is this, deviant art?

That's not funny.

 

[Fortress]

You couldn't pay me to care less.

 

[Shellfire]

This discussion clearly can't seem to go 3 posts without someone saying something snarky.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

welcome to pms, who's your waifu, check your non-circumcised privilege at the door