Project M Social Thread Gold

[hotdogturtle]

You hate how cliche they are, when they started it all? Makes zero sense.

I didn't read the posts prior to this page (except to double check who Canon was talking about), but I didn't say that they're cliche. They're dumb because they're lazy, boring, and uninspired designs.

"Here is my super hero his name is Super Man and his super power is that he can do EVERYTHING and also he's invincible and he can fly and he has no weaknesses"
"That's stupid as ****, at least give him a weakness."
"Fine, he is weak to this rare element that I just made up and it's not found on this planet"

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Wellllllll

Red sun weakens Supes, he can actually drain the invulnerability out of himself by overexertion (re: his first fight with Doomsday), he can't super dee duper mega punch all the baddies because he puts up mental blocks in his brain so strong that it's like a psychic MIND**** to himself, and...

I think I'm just adding on to hotdogturtle's point.

my b

Smooth Criminal

 

[Comeback Kid]

they're lazy, boring, and uninspired designs

So the word your looking for is cliche right?

They're actually not boring, they are the foundation for future designs and ideas. Their minimalism is actually chique and cool in the post-modern modern age don't you know?

You can't use historical revisionism to trash a once original idea that's not original anymore because it's been copied a million times and it's the cynical current thing to do to hate on simple ideas that once inspired great things.

 

[hotdogturtle]

Again, I didn't say anything about other characters copying their ideas or referencing history. Cliche is not the word I'm using to describe them. Maybe you could call Batman "minimalistic" and get away with that, but Superman's powers are not creative in the slightest bit. They just thew every power combined on him and called it "super" powers.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

chic*

beyond that, I kind of see where you're coming from, Comeback Kid. But personally, that's part of the reason why comic books frustrate me as a medium for storytelling. You have to wade through a lot of bull**** to get to a halfway decent iteration of the character, and slog through even more **** to get to a halfway decent story arc.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Comeback Kid]

Superheroes are modern day gods, so that can be referenced when thinking about Superman's powerset.

Taking it too literally is why people can't enjoy the end of the first Superman movie, some nerds think a god can't time travel by flying super fast? Why the hell not?

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

I didn't read the posts prior to this page (except to double check who Canon was talking about), but I didn't say that they're cliche. They're dumb because they're lazy, boring, and uninspired designs.

"Here is my super hero his name is Super Man and his super power is that he can do EVERYTHING and also he's invincible and he can fly and he has no weaknesses"
"That's stupid as ****, at least give him a weakness."
"Fine, he is weak to this rare element that I just made up and it's not found on this planet"

Eh, the power-set doesn't make the character. Their personality and the way they're written do. If power-set really mattered, no comic character would truly be that interesting.

Edit: UNLESS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SQUIRREL-GIRL. Her power-set alone makes her amazing....that and she beat Thanos, Doctor Doom, Wolverine, and many others 1x1.

 

[SpiderMad]

"That's stupid as ****, at least give him a weakness."
"Fine, he is weak to this rare element that I just made up and it's not found on this planet"

Voodoo Magic also affects him

 

[Plum]

Superman is also weak to magic
Honestly I blame the Silver Age for the mess of powers Superman has now.
Look back to his inception, and he was strong enough to lift a car, run faster than regular cars (aka not lightspeed... because let's just give superman lightspeed so Flash can't have a unique power), and his skin was dense enough to block stuff like bullets but not explosives. All in all relatively tame. Not the most creative hero, but then again you can't really expect some of the very first superheroes to be.
The Silver Age though was basically just every writer giving him new powers for any situation, and then amplifying his already existing powers to the realm of absurdity. This is when you would see Superman being capable of moving planets and **** with one hand, his invulnerability becoming all but true, interstellar flight (somehow actually ignoring the speed of light), heat vision, telekinesis, faster than super computer brain, etc.
It continued to get out of hand until they did the Crisis series in the 70's and sort of reset the universe. From that point forward his powers were all toned down, or lost altogether thankfully. Still a little out of hand though, no doubt.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

80's.

The Crisis series happened in the eighties, Plum.

And you're forgetting that Superboy Prime punched reality and reset the universe further down the road.

._.

Smooth Criminal

 

[hotdogturtle]

Voodoo Magic also affects him

You're not helping your case.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Superman is also weak to magic
Honestly I blame the Silver Age for the mess of powers Superman has now.
Look back to his inception, and he was strong enough to lift a car, run faster than regular cars (aka not lightspeed... because let's just give superman lightspeed so Flash can't have a unique power), and his skin was dense enough to block stuff like bullets but not explosives. All in all relatively tame. Not the most creative hero, but then again you can't really expect some of the very first superheroes to be.
The Silver Age though was basically just every writer giving him new powers for any situation, and then amplifying his already existing powers to the realm of absurdity. This is when you would see Superman being capable of moving planets and **** with one hand, his invulnerability becoming all but true, interstellar flight (somehow actually ignoring the speed of light), heat vision, telekinesis, faster than super computer brain, etc.
It continued to get out of hand until they did the Crisis series in the 70's and sort of reset the universe. From that point forward his powers were all toned down, or lost altogether thankfully. Still a little out of hand though, no doubt.

Silver Age Supes was pretty crazy, considering the man could close black holes with his bare hands.

I'm pretty sure his current power-set is decently balanced though...for Superman's standards. You get all the basics, though not to the extent of previous versions of the character.

As far as Superman goes, it's not what powers he does have, it's what he does with said powers. All-Star Superman is still a fantastic read and he's more or less a god in that.

 

[Comeback Kid]

Superman has plenty of weaknesses as people have shown, and is often powered down in other media to make his physical enemies more of a threat. Lex Luthor is more of a mental opponent though, or at least should be.

Written well, he is a very good character. But I think we must agree to disagree, because tastes will differ and we have all been exposed to different things which have shaped our perception of the character.

If I watched more than two episodes of Smallville for instance, I would hate Kyptonite with a burning passion.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

I'm suddenly reminded of the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen in Batman.

The Batman vs Dracula, the animated movie. I kid you not, in one scene, Bruce is standing at a mirror and he sees the words Alucard on a wall backwards and suddenly has the brilliant idea that,"Dr Alucard is Dracula!" He was right of course, but the manner he walked into that realization seemed so sloppy and stupid that it still makes me laugh just thinking about it.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I love to dislike (not necessarily hate) Supes' character. He's a great contrast to those that hold views antithetical to his own (Lex Luthor, Batman, Maxwell Lord, etc). I hold the same esteem for Marvel's Captain America, as well.

(Don't ask me to respect Cyclops like that, though.)

Smooth Criminal

 

[Comeback Kid]

Cyclops is lame, and his costume is lame.

I think we can all agree on that guys?

 

[Plum]

You're right on the first Crisis being in the 80's, my bad.
And Superboy Prime is an absolute mess of a character. Let's just take the most powerful version of Superman that we've ever used that we even retconned out of existence, make it even stronger with galactic/cosmic/whatever abilities and call it a day. Honestly the Crisis trilogy on a whole is a mess.
Although I will say that 52, the inbetween Infinite and Final Crisis run is among my favorite series that I've read. Don't even get me started about how much I loved the Question's portrayal in 52. It alone made him one of my favorite DCU characters.

 

[Comeback Kid]

I'm not a fan of EVIL Superman stories, even Elseworlds tales like Red Son.

I'm cool with Kingdom Come style "Superman must grapple with hard questions" sort of stories where there is a large moral grey area.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Cyclops is lame, and his costume is lame.

I think we can all agree on that guys?

Cyclops isn't lame, he is a massive douche though.

 

[DMG]

Super heroes? Oh boy!

I like the Green Lantern. Only John Stewart though.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I'm not a fan of EVIL Superman stories, even Elseworlds tales like Red Son.

I'm cool with Kingdom Come style "Superman must grapple with hard questions" sort of stories where there is a large moral grey area.

thisthisthisthisthisthisthis so much

Hell, Identity Crisis. Sure, Superman wasn't one of the "core" heroes of the story, but he was a biiiiiiiig part of why things went down the way they did. I don't want to give anything away to those that haven't read it yet, but let's just say you won't look at Superman's sense of "right" the same ever again.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

If you want a good take on Evil Superman, check out Irredeemable. Yeah, it's not actually Superman, but it's an interesting study of what a truly rogue Superman would be capable of.

 

[Comeback Kid]

I forgot that there is one story where you get to see Superman from Lex Luthor's point of view, and he is truly terrifying.

I like it from that villian's perspective, but not taken literally.

Superman's whole deal is that he could crush you with a flick of his finger but he doesn't. His self-restraint and goodness in the face of temptation is his true superpower.

That's why it pissed me off when he let Zod kill all those people in Man of Steel. Zod ain't a fragile human child, he's another god that can take a real bone-shatttering ass-kicking into space like a man, so get him far away from the city rather than reliving 9/11 Snyder!

 

[Plum]

Super heroes? Oh boy!

I like the Green Lantern. Only John Stewart though.

psssssh
Best Green Lantern is OG Alan Scott.
I was actually never a fan of the Hal Jord and co + little blue aliens until a friend of mine made me read Geoff Johns' run. And even then I didn't really like it for the Green Lanterns themselves, but rather the scope of the universe that Johns created. The interactions between the opposing factions and the characters that composed them were the interesting part for me. The Green lanterns were largely boring imo, but I ate up the other colors like candy.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

I forgot that there is one story where you get to see Superman from Lex Luthor's point of view, and he is truly terrifying.

I like it from that villian's perspective, but not taken literally.

Superman's whole deal is that he could crush you with a flick of his finger but he doesn't. His self-restraint and goodness in the face of temptation is his true superpower.

That's why it pissed me off when he let Zod kill all those people in Man of Steel. Zod ain't a fragile human child, he's another god that can take a real bone-shatttering ***-kicking into space like a man, so get him far away from the city rather than reliving 9/11 Snyder!

Lex Luthor, Man of Steel? That was an interesting read. It seemed like more of a look into the warped way that Luthor sees the world when it's so clearly not like that, though he is psychotic.

Oh god. Man of Steel. I hated that movie so much. It's not Ben Affleck that has me dreading the Batman/Superman film, it's giving Zack "action over substance" Snyder another shot.

 

[Nausicaa]

Aang and Nausicaä are the best Heroes...
In terms of characters from stories who fit the definition and my subjective take on what it actually defines at a deeper level than surface-interactions.

Just sayaaaain

 

[Smooth Criminal]

The last leg of Man of Steel was largely meh anyways. I can forgive almost everything else about the movie.

Dem fight scenes, though. I ****ing loved them. The sense of speed and power was spot-on.

(The early fight scenes, not the glorified chase scene towards the end.)

Smooth Criminal

 

[Comeback Kid]

"Instead of fixing the problems with the first movie let's put in tons of cameos in MoS 2 and rush to the Justice League movie we haven't set up beyond CW dramas. Weeeeee!!!!!!"

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

The last leg of Man of Steel was largely meh anyways.

Dem fight scenes, though. I ****ing loved them. The sense of speed and power was spot-on.

(The early fight scenes, not the glorified chase scene towards the end.)

Smooth Criminal

I found the action scenes in Superman Returns more entertaining, purely because while it tried to be actiony, it never forgot that Supes is supposed to care about others and be constantly considering them. Just the fact that he was heat-visioning glass that was going to fall on people to save them, in the midst of other stuff was so impressive. It's a shame that the movie as a whole wasn't more interesting.

Aang and Nausicaä are the best Heroes...
In terms of characters from stories who fit the definition and my subjective take on what it actually defines at a deeper level than surface-interactions.

Just sayaaaain

I've never seen Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind, but Aang was definitely a well designed and realized hero. If we're thinking of the same one.

 

[Plum]

I've never really been a fan of Zack Snyder.
Honestly I think Affleck will do a fine job on Batman. Dude's a fine actor, and a Batfanatic so I can't see him not giving the character the respect he deserves/doing it justice. People just look at Daredevil and imagine it's going to be the same. They see Daredevil's terrible writing and direction and blame that on Affleck. I mean, he even said it himself that he signed on as a fan of the comic expecting something different, and eventually you get to that point where you're already too far to turn back. meh

But yeah, I think Zack Synder is fine if you just want something entertaining with a lack of substance. But that's not what I want when I see some of my favorite characters getting put onto the big screen. If I wanted that I would watch something like the Expendables.

 

[Comeback Kid]

Aang is ten times the Avatar Korra ever was, but let's not get that discussion started.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Superman Returns did a better job at personifying the heroic essence of the character. Man of Steel's Superman is supposed to be raw, a verdant n00b to superheroics, and conflicted about it. Granted, it wasn't handled all that well, but y'know.

And Nausicaa, while I love Aang, he was a character that didn't see any real development until the last minute. Much of TLA was spent with him derping and dancing around most of his problems (it also didn't help that a good portion of the series had stories that were basically one-offs and didn't really contribute to any overreaching development for any characters). He didn't see any real growth until he tried mastering the Avatar state, and even then it was kind of shaky. But in fairness, it was a show that was mostly geared towards a younger audience, so I guess you can't expect a certain level of refinement in the storytelling. Not to mention the time constraints. As for your namesake, that's Yukito Kishiro's baby, right? I haven't read it yet. I loved Gunmetal/Battle Angel Alita, though. One of my favorite series ever.

BEFORE I GET RIPPED A NEW ONE BY THE COMEBACK KID, I WOULD LIKE TO GO ON RECORD AND SAY THAT AANG >>>>>>>>>>>>> KORRA ANY DAY. THANK YOU.

...it's just that I've personally seen better character development. TLA is still a great series.


Smooth Criminal

 

[Plum]

I've enjoyed the Legend of Korra more as a series largely due to the tone hitting the mark more for me but also DAT ANIMATION IS BEAUTIFUL, but Aang was a better character. And I can't really blame the tone of The Last Airbender changing around so often, I mean the main character is still trying to have a childhood at the same time as saving the world, but it just wasn't for me personally. Korra definitely took itself more seriously, as appropriate for the age.

 

[GigasOverlord]

Korra is great, but The Last Airbender had more characters that made Aang a better character. That, and Uncle Iroh is one of my favorite characters of all time.

 

[RIDLEY is too SMALL]

I swear, every other time I look at this thread, something other than PM is being discussed. Allow me to remedy this.

Aang for clone engine

Superman for Falcon alt. costume

 

[DMG]

I don't want any costumes for Falcon. The only acceptable thing to me, would be "Melee" version of Falcon where his chest looks like a halloween costume with padding

 

[RIDLEY is too SMALL]

That's because he is so epic that everyone dresses up in a Captain Falcon costume for Halloween, even Captain Falcon.

 

[DMG]

Captain Falcon, wearing a Captain Falcon costume

Alrighty PMBR make it happen

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

DMG is so adorably dumb. :3

Captain Falcon is easy. Either have it be Classic Falcon, Super Falcon, or Helmetless Falcon.

He's Captain Falcon. He doesn't need to change a lot for people to notice and be able distinguish the differences between his appearances.

 

[DMG]

How is that any different than asking for a Melee Falcon costume? With the big huge chest muscles