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Project M Social Thread Gold

MechWarriorNY

Smash Master
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Disclaimer: I have unrealistic standards in regards to mistakes being made and repeated, because humans have unchecked freedom of will. That is not a good thing.
Like I said, "having an ego is bad", remember?
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
If you have recommendations for me aside from the almost obligatory Red Son, I'm all for it. I should probably work on how I phrase ****, lol.
Smooth Criminal
Just about anything by Alan Moore, Grant Morrison, and Warren Ellis.
 
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Foo

Smash Lord
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Messages
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Commentatorland
Gaming companies don't directly support unofficial mods, lol, they are a form of competition.
(barring extreme circumstances)
Super late reply, but if nintendo didn't want PM to exist, it'd be gone. Nintendo wants PM to exist because you need a copy of brawl to play it (not totally true, but most people use one), and they know PM fans are generally smash fans, and deleting PM would be an unpopular move. The reason PM isn't at apex is because nintendo is a sponsor, and nintendo literally would be legally forced to sue PM if they so much as acknowledge that they exist. This law exists so that companies can't entrap fan made things by encouraging it, then turning around and sueing them for all they are worth.,
 

Lizalfos

Smash Master
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Superman can acomplish so much just cause he is Superman. There is so little adversity because most every problem has an obvious solution in the form of his many powers. Even if you threaten things he loves he can just brute force through the problem. They also ****ed up by making him super smart too. If you can solve everything that easy, the senarios become stupid quickly.
 

shairn

Your favorite anime is bad.
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Super late reply, but if nintendo didn't want PM to exist, it'd be gone. Nintendo wants PM to exist because you need a copy of brawl to play it (not totally true, but most people use one), and they know PM fans are generally smash fans, and deleting PM would be an unpopular move. The reason PM isn't at apex is because nintendo is a sponsor, and nintendo literally would be legally forced to sue PM if they so much as acknowledge that they exist. This law exists so that companies can't entrap fan made things by encouraging it, then turning around and sueing them for all they are worth.,
[Citation needed]
 

Rᴏb

still here, just to suffer
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Messages
1,595
The classic sonic game would be good if the levels were competently designed in a way that allows you to go fast without being "hold right: the game", and if the camera wasn't so zoomed in so you would actually have time to react to the things in front of you while still maintaining your momentum. I think generations pulls this off the best with it's classic sonic sections, but that really isn't saying much when the runner up is Sonic Hold Right 2.

Honestly, SA1+2 are probably the closest to actually achieving what the sonic series has been trying to do since the beginning; going fast and being rad. In those games, the controls are tight enough to get good with, and the physics are forgiving enough to basically allow you to do whatever the **** you wanted, ie being rad. In SA2, the mech sections completely broke the pace, but they weren't terribly offensive because almost all of them allowed you to go at your max speed while having everything explode around you, and then awarded you with points for it- which feels good. I don't even think the treasure hunting sections broke the pace as much as the mech sections did, because they allowed you to go at basically the same speed as Sonic while also changing up the gameplay in a way that still allowed going fast to be optimal.
 

PMS | Tink-er

fie on thee
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I've tried to play sonic 1 before and I thought it was boring. I spent most of the levels holding right to win or slowing down because holding right to win gets you killed.

Imo a game that rewards precision and speed is robot unicorn attack. If sonic games took some inspiration from that, they would be better imo.
 

Vashimus

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
3,308
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Newark, NJ
Everything Bleck said about Sonic was correct.

Superman sucks for the same reason Samus Aran sucks. They are perfect aside from their complete lack of personality and parents.
Not the same thing. Superman was intentionally designed to be a Mary Sue in a story-telling medium, where we're expected to be able relate with (or not), understand, and actually believe the characters in front of us. Samus never really had in-depth character development because that was never the point of Metroid. Plus having a personality isn't always inherently better than none at all.
 
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PMS | Tink-er

fie on thee
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I'm not really a fan of action, so most superheroes aren't very interesting to me. I prefer the fantastic or surreal to the superlative. Saving the world is usually kinda boring.
 

Lizalfos

Smash Master
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Not the same thing. Superman was intentionally designed to be a Mary Sue in a story-telling medium, where we're expected to actually be able relate with, understand, and actually believe the characters in front of us. Samus never really had in-depth character development because that was never the point of Metroid.
Eveyone sees her as perfect though. I blame Other M for forcing us to think about her personal life. The other games kept it all about her being a professional. Especially the parts where she put on her Bikini.

(Story telling in games is so different from comics anyway.)
 

Hylian

Not even death can save you from me
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I know that as far as this thread goes this is a pretty old post to be replying to, but how much of the IC's fair sends people downward? I expected the fair to send DDD upward and end the combo (but instead there was that dope as hell followup). Was that changed from 3.0?
The inner hitbox of the fair spikes. I wasn't actually sure if that fair would spike when I hit him with it, I cut it pretty close lol.
 

PlateProp

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Just finished reading the written history of Boatmurdered


It was basically this thread
 

Foo

Smash Lord
Joined
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Superman sucks for the same reason Samus Aran sucks. They are perfect aside from their complete lack of personality and parents.
Neither of these are true. While superman has every power, he is still weak to certain rocks. However, that's the main things. The main things is that he is mentally unstable and not the brightest. Should we talk about the times he turned evil due to meltdowns?

As for samus, she is a video game character with almost no dialoge and most interaction is done by the player. (other M isn't canon, if you say it is, I will cut you). Next you will say gordon freeman is a bad character. I mean... ok? That's basically what she is in the games that have a right to exist: a female version of gordon freeman. There is some interesting development of her character, done outside dialogue centered around metriods, though. Good examples here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lohPjo1SC4g (watch the whole thing if you watch it, though)
 

shairn

Your favorite anime is bad.
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I hate Facebook for its horrible, horrible way of presenting information. It's like if a library put every single book in it on a shelf with the sides boarded up so you can only take a book by removing all the ones that precede it. Meanwhile, new books are being added on top. The lack of any usable search function to find posts or what have you is in itself an insult: Facebook expends all of its energy and resources to gather information on you, but won't even allow you a flashlight to dredge through the swap of your news feed.

Furthermore, there's no reliable way to link to anything on the site from somewhere else. Either because of privacy measures or because there's simply no reasonable way to obtain a link to anything besides pictures. You're forced to use the share option, which can only be used to post on someone's wall or on your news feed, neither of which are often desirable options.

Facebook's lack of any real moderation or posting ethic is a problem too. Posting something on Facebook is essentially similar o making a thread on a forum. But people sometimes post nothing but pictures, or otherwise forgettable comments. The general sentiment is that a comment should be terse, which is increasingly frustrating. There is no need to move a thread at the pace of a conversation, but should your comment pass 4-5 lines, which, by facebook formatting standards, is barely 2 lines or so on most forums using conventional fonts and text sizes, not many people are going to bother reading it, because by the times they have, there's going to be twenty new comments and they'll be out of the conversation. Not to mention you probably got pushed out by the time you finished writing your comment.

Meanwhile, forums are well-organized, timeless and allow you to read, search and post at your own pace through the use of its various functions like quotes, paginated threads, a real search function, compact and easy to navigate boards, etc.

Take for example, this thread that inspired me to write this. Back in 2004, Smashboards was the place. 88 pages for a single tournament thread? This doesn't happen anymore, unless you're Apex or Evo and you have your own forum. Even then I don't think they garner nearly as many posts. Nowadays, out-of-tourney interaction almost only happens on the appropriate Facebook event, and with posts being interspersed among "x is going" notifications and the aforementioned difficulties in finding anything on Facebook, it leads to a rather singular experience where all that mattered was the time between when the tournament started and when it ended. Out-of-town stories notwithstanding.

I wish Facebook groups stopped being a thing. It is the ****tiest way to hold a community.
 
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Giygacoal

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
1,651
Gaming companies don't directly support unofficial mods, lol, they are a form of competition.
(barring extreme circumstances)
I suppose this might be different from a full company's view, but the lead designer of XCOM: Enemy Unknown said to check out an unofficial mod that he enjoyed.
 

GHNeko

Sega Stockholm Syndrome.
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Everything Bleck said about Sonic was correct.
I've tried to play sonic 1 before and I thought it was boring. I spent most of the levels holding right to win or slowing down because holding right to win gets you killed.

Imo a game that rewards precision and speed is robot unicorn attack. If sonic games took some inspiration from that, they would be better imo.
The classic sonic game would be good if the levels were competently designed in a way that allows you to go fast without being "hold right: the game", and if the camera wasn't so zoomed in so you would actually have time to react to the things in front of you while still maintaining your momentum. I think generations pulls this off the best with it's classic sonic sections, but that really isn't saying much when the runner up is Sonic Hold Right 2.

Honestly, SA1+2 are probably the closest to actually achieving what the sonic series has been trying to do since the beginning; going fast and being rad. In those games, the controls are tight enough to get good with, and the physics are forgiving enough to basically allow you to do whatever the **** you wanted, ie being rad. In SA2, the mech sections completely broke the pace, but they weren't terribly offensive because almost all of them allowed you to go at your max speed while having everything explode around you, and then awarded you with points for it- which feels good. I don't even think the treasure hunting sections broke the pace as much as the mech sections did, because they allowed you to go at basically the same speed as Sonic while also changing up the gameplay in a way that still allowed going fast to be optimal.
Ya'll r lame.

Sonic Adventure and Adventure 2 wasnt that good of a game. I enjoyed them back then, but now-a-days, the games just really arent as fun. The hedgehog level design in Adventure 2 was silly as **** as the game goes on and generally turned into more of a hassle to play. Sonic Adventure 1's levels were stupid simplistic too.

Classic Sonic stages in Generations were terrible after Dreamcast Era + Heroes level. I had little fun with the levels and Classic Sonic as a character.

I also fail to see how a majority of zones in Sonic 1,2, 3K, and SCD are hold right to win when there are dozens of ups and downs and platforming sections.

Yeah you go from left to right get to the end of the stage, but so do you in SMB1,2JP,3 and World. It's just that a majority of the "holding right" is hidden behind the need to go in various directions.
 
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Saito

Pranked!
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I don't know if I'd rather have this superman/sonic talk or a fox discussion featuring Bleck and pootiskonga
 
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SpiderMad

Smash Master
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
4,968
Let's talk about how pm needs taokaka then
How many Tool records have you listened to?

Also I realized recently that in a lot of my discussions and thinking on mechanics and how I feel about them that I never draw comparisons to Smash 64: because I have no clue on 64 mechanics. Like I was thinking of how Z-cancelling could trigger the tech window and blah blah but I don't know the tech window and tech fail window for the game or anything. As good of a game that it is, I find myself and I think others pry not caring to draw or research comparisons to it and the other games. Other than once in a while someone saying Falcon should have his 64 Up-smash, Pikachu having his 64 Bair, and Taunt cancelling being in the game.

Also another not so hard to see observation would be that PM has gone the direction of keeping/reverting back to Brawl things as time goes on.
Diddy had reduced glide tosses in 2.5, then they made it back to being crazy good.
TL had nairplane (and supposedly Diddy before he was released as well), reverted to Brawl.
Lucas in 2.0 had entirely different dair/bair, reverted to Brawl.
Kirby had 64 Nair seen in pre-release trailers.
MK's dair.
And by "reverted", generally they still changed it to make it more in-line with Melee/PM.
 
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PMS | Tink-er

fie on thee
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I haven't bothered listening to any tool albums. Which order do you suggest?

Also, mfw watching Blood Lad

 

Hinichii.ez.™

insincere personality
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It really sucks going to a small college sometimes. Gotta go to class everyday :(
 

SpiderMad

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I haven't bothered listening to any tool albums. Which order do you suggest?
They're one of the very few artists I can say that they're all really good. I listened to just their songs on the radio and such when I was a kid (10 or something), even bought an album back then but it had a couple vocal-less songs that made me stop listening or something. Which was weird because I listened to the same album back this month (now a decade later, when I decided to really find out about the band and listen to their stuff) and it's like it wasn't even the same album: like I somehow went straight to the only two vocal-less tracks and shelved it.

The order isn't important, though I'd say just go from earliest to newest. Just know the years the albums were created and I guess have that in mind.
Be sure you have Opiate and Salival in there though, like the full discography.
 
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Eternal Yoshi

I've covered ban wars, you know
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Yeah you go from left to right get to the end of the stage, but so do you in SMB1,2JP,3 and World. It's just that a majority of the "holding right" is hidden behind the need to go in various directions.
I was wondering when someone was gonna point that out.
Don't see why people do the hold right criticism for Sonic and ignore how Mario has just as much, if not more, "hold right to win" situations.
Must have strong biases.
I mean in Super Mario World, you can do that and Fly over every stage that's not Tubular or in a cave, and you win.
 

GHNeko

Sega Stockholm Syndrome.
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Ignoring power ups, you can still jump over a lot of **** in stages and avoid a lot of obstacles with practice and level memorization. It's not just as hard as the faster platformers.

And in Super Mario World, you can get hit indefinitely if you have the Yoshi, and unlike Rings, Yoshi doesnt disappear after being on the screen for so long. The restriction with yoshi is that you just cant take him inside castles and ghost houses.

So while it's not the rings mechanic, I dont necessarily get the "you can get hit infinite times" criticism as if it's something only Sonic did wrong, because most platformers have a method of regenerating health/HP almost indefinitely.
 
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Empyrean

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Sonic games would be good if sonic wasn't such an annoying ass ************ in smash

Also don't hate on Samus, she da bess
 

Bleck

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Don't see why people do the hold right criticism for Sonic and ignore how Mario has just as much, if not more, "hold right to win" situations.
Must have strong biases.
I mean in Super Mario World, you can do that and Fly over every stage that's not Tubular or in a cave, and you win.
The "hold right to win" criticism isn't about how easy it is; it's about player expectations combined with how meaningful the execution of the mechanics are.

In aSuper Mario World, the "hold right to win" sections involve using the cape to fly over everything, but even then one actually has to have a spot that's long enough to take off and the ability to keep the proper rhythm to stay in the air (which since we're all dumb nerds here might sound like something really easy, but consider that that's not the case for everybody), and there are a large number of levels where flying over everything isn't actually possible (yes, Tubular and caves, but also underwater levels and any autoscrolling levels and any castles, i.e pretty much over half of the stages in the game) and you're going to miss a large majority of the hidden exits and special stuff in the game if you try to just hold right through every stage.

In Sonic games, the "hold right to win" sections in stages are literally parts where you hold right and automatically run through the stages. During these sections there are no secrets or bonuses to be had by slowing down, there are no meaningful obstacles in your way until the game suddenly throws you into a wall or some spikes or some water at which point you just flat out stop - the problem is that these sections are one input away from essentially being cutscenes.

In SMW, you can fly over levels, yes - but you actually have to fly over the levels. Being able to do this still involves a measurable amount of player ability and decision making, where running through loops in a Sonic game does not.

I also fail to see how a majority of zones in Sonic 1,2, 3K, and SCD are hold right to win when there are dozens of ups and downs and platforming sections.
Most of the stages aren't "hold right to win" in those games - and that's the problem. Every second you're spending waiting for some boxes to float over lava or trying to get that stupid carnival tube to go up and down runs contrary to player expectations (i.e this is a game where the character runs really fast). It puts the player in a weird abusive relationship with the game where they aren't allowed to have fun doing the thing they expected until after they play a mediocre platformer. And then when they are allowed to finally Go Fast, it's in sections that basically play themselves and offer the player no meaningful satisfaction for execution.

And in Super Mario World, you can get hit indefinitely if you have the Yoshi, and unlike Rings, Yoshi doesnt disappear after being on the screen for so long. The restriction with yoshi is that you just cant take him inside castles and ghost houses.

So while it's not the rings mechanic, I dont necessarily get the "you can get hit infinite times" criticism as if it's something only Sonic did wrong, because most platformers have a method of regenerating health/HP almost indefinitely.
You're right - having Yoshi means that you can take damage infinitely, assuming that you take damage in a location where stopping and getting back on Yoshi is possible, and this sort of removes the danger of enemies and other obstacles. This criticism is also why Yoshi doesn't work that way in later Mario games, whereas Sonic's infinite rings health system has been a noted criticism of the series for over two decades now that Sonic game creators staunchly refuse to acknowledge or change in any meaningful way.

Every other platformer I can think of uses 'taking damage' as a way to halt and//or slow down progress - most of the time, you can only take a finite number of hits from things before being forced to restart from an earlier point in the game. There are often mechanics that involve recovering health, but they usually involve getting to a certain point in the stage and/or defeating enemies, i.e actually playing the game successfully.

The only platformers I can think of that repeatedly choose to have health function in such a way where you basically recover it instantly for free without losing any meaningful progress or having to change your approach to the game are Sonic games.
 

Comeback Kid

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Eh, I honestly don't think the fact Sonic can take a lot of hits with at least one ring is actually a bad thing at all. Just like the various spinball mechanics this actually alleviates a lot of frustration, knowing that you can take some serious risks and not die from them.

The game has so many good mechanics (including a shield in S3&K) that get ignored because they don't fit the narrative that Sonic is sooooo unfair when it is pretty damn fair.
 

KayB

Smash Master
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Hey, Nintendo just announced another FE game. I'm pretty hyped and all since I loved Awakening, but where's FE x SMT come on
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
Puzzle Dragon + Mario

Man, smart marketing plan. Way to just throw mario on something, that'll make it sell for sure!
 
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