Project M Social Thread Gold

[SpiderMad]

Yeah explain that boomerang thing again, angled down hits the floor, and reflects it backwards (with the hitbox now gone?)

 

[Kink-Link5]

When all is said and done, MK will be top 5-6 in this game along Peach/Sheik/Marth if he doesn't get massively nerfed.

I can see it. I still feel that he's in a good place as far as design goes though, without warranting the kind of nerfs Sonic or Lucario received (I still don't feel Ike deserved his treatment).

MK's design is extremely solid. He has fundimental strengths like Sheik and Fox and has a strong ability to fake using those fundimentals. His dash takes off without a hiccup, his SH is fast and lithe, and he has extremely strong pokes. The closest thing he has to a gimmick is his down B causing some confusion by its use. He has all the things that make Melee A-tier threats great with nothing particularly broken on its own.

Metaknight is in a very good place, and I'll stand by that until it turns out his back throw sets up for auto gimps from mid stage on nearly every stage or something ******** like that.

 

[Hylian]

So I've tried working around Link's messed up boomerang, I thought it wouldn't matter much but it's gotten me killed a few times already, now we gotta wait till 3.0 comes out before we can really use Link again, how could you let that slide Hylian!?

On another note, Metaknight's up-airs.... DI doesn't seem to work or is it me? Anytime a good player gets below me with him, it's just up air -> up air -> up air -> up air -> up-B -> Star KO

Huh? What is messed up about Links rang? Also, I can DI out of mk's uair strings fine.

 

[DMG]

You may need to shift DI based on where MK hits you with Uair. You may get sent at varying trajectories if you are in front of him compared to near the back of him. If that's the case, holding one direction constantly might just keep you popped straight up most of the time.

 

[The_NZA]

I honestly wouldn't mind PAL Spacies though maybe a middle-ground between NTSC and PAL would be best? Honestly people really exaggerate when they talk about fox for some reason, his frame data is good because all of his moves are average or better. I take that back, it isn't just his moves, nearly all of his properties are average or better, though he is lighter than pikachu: Jumpsquat is the same as shiek, fastfall is slower than falco/n, nair's range isn't as awesome as people seem to think, yes shine is stupid lord shut up about it though please (I actually don't mind the 1 Fran of invincibility missing and I clash with **** all the time with shine /shrug), acceleration is tied with Marth, jab is fast but i think it is tied for either first or second place in speed, horizontal aireal control/mobility is actually tied with Falco for being the worst in melee, etc. for ever and ever. The reality is that Fox is good because all of his moves are useful and work well together, that combined with his particular properties as a character really make something scary. Without the shine he would probably be okay, though he would be an insanely campy, laser based character, probably still B or A tier however /shrug. The reality is he doesn't compete well enough to deserve all the exaggeration. And yes ELI we have had this discussion before the design of the character doesn't fit in smash, IIRC you admitted you liked it overall, but that it is just plain stupid in smash. I'm not debating that, I can't since I agree with it. However the silly exaggeration has to stop M2K did frame analysis, if people really want to see how all his moves stack up they should check it out. (Also yes usmash is good, pika's is better, shiek's sweetspot is better, Sweetspot marth usmash is close too iirc, also tipper fsmash kills pretty early too I hear. Gimps also exist, just about every character can do it, Fox's shine happens to be very good at gimping, but so are all of shiek's aireals, marth's aireals, actually I could go on for way too long with this Nvm.) The only point I'm trying to make is that Fox is not some leviathan-juggernaught only capable of being defeated at the hands of the PMBR coders. He can be beaten, period.
I'm not going to argue on the legitimacy, or lack-thereof, of his moveset as I have my own , admittedly unique, view on that.
Just my .02 though
Mk wesome, dude is fast, mobile, good at gimping, tech-chasing, PMBR did a great job with him, though he still seems pretty powerful when played super-campy and passive.

I feel like all you did was isolate individual traits of Fox and said "This isn't the best in class. It's tied for 2nd/3rd best in the game." All the while noting the only true area he doesn't excel at is "horizontal aerial control/mobility", which is such a pointless category for him anyways since he just dash jumps and ends up wherever he wants to be anyhow. Also, I'd argue Fox's usmash is better than pikas because a ****ing one frame move combos into it (power wise its about even but Pika doesn't have other good kill options besides uair gimps, and standard edgeguards). Sweetspots are pointless to mention since it shows how much you are reaching to make it seem like an acceptable move. Dude, this move has no positional disadvantage. You don't have to get someone to the tippytop sweetspot to unlock its true power. You just ****ing run and usmash. Run shine usmash. Jab Usmash.

NO one is arguing he can't be beat. No one is arguing he is meta-knighting this game. But everyone should recognize that this character, if released tomorrow for hte first time in the smash universe would be getting nerfed, and its about time he got treated that way. Keep whatever makes the game a better game (even if that means shine), but take away some of the silly **** which just isn't fun for any of us to watch anymore (usmash/uair of doom).

 

[Kink-Link5]

You may need to shift DI based on where MK hits you with Uair. You may get sent at varying trajectories if you are in front of him compared to near the back of him. If that's the case, holding one direction constantly might just keep you popped straight up most of the time.

Going to check on this later today. It sounds about right.

 

[GaretHax]

Uhm yeah that is exactly what I did NZA... You come across as being very bitter and jaded NZA, I also reccomended you look at M2K's data if you want to know what Fox really is. Shine comboes into usmash, Marth fair comboes to dair+fair+tipperfsmash+utilt etc. Other characters have reliable kill setups too, shine is dumb, yup won't argue that. It makes Falco's entire character (though that gun is just as necessary that little bird is so damn slow), and really helps Fox out. Anyway I have no desire to pick apart posts and argue over little subjective quirks in each other's arguements. I would consider toning Falco down, shiek got what was needed, and peach is peach, Fox could do with a little less kbgrowth on usmash maybe, but I honestly wouldn't change that much about him. If he starts winning regionals and nationals all over the place in melee and PM then maybe he really does need something more drastic, but a NTSC-PAL middle-ground wouldn't be a bad compromise IMO.
As a side note you kind of exaggerated upsmash, yeah it is the best upsmash in melee, I wasn't arguing that, but if you think it is some kind of free tool with no disadvantage, positional or otherwise... Well, you are wrong. Honestly your closing argument just doesn't make sense within your examples,(really it just sounds like an angry attempt to shout someone down via interwebz) exactly when is jab--->upshamsh or any attempted combo considered a positional disadvantage for the player landing it?

 

[Oro?!]

If Fox was released tomorrow, everyone would think he sucks. "Omg Fox has like 1 kill move upsmash, uair sucks can be SDI'd rofl gg PMBR. Wow you can cancel shine maybe there are cool things you can do with it. This character is too hard to play as, #unviable. Fox will never win tournaments. Can't even recover, has no range, gets chaingrabbed forever."

 

[Sixth-Sense]

why is it so hard to find good BRSTM themes aaaaagh

I was going with a theme of nujabes/samurai champloo for smashville but most of the songs in this list have been taken down

Yo, don't know if you've got a response yet but in brawl custom music (look it up on google) go all the way down to Samurai champloo, it should be there, aruarian dance is perfect for Oceanville (by Xenozoa) and some nomak songs are great for it too

good to see a fellow Nujabes fan

 

[SpiderMad]

Diddy needs his babies back =(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=_uj-R3k0TNE#t=170

 

[ValTroX]

So, can anyone add the sfx code to the gct and post it here? Here it is http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=61460.0

^Anyone?

 

[GaretHax]

^Anyone?

That code is so awesome, I'm amazed it wasn't implemented in 2.6b, I really hope it is in the next release or at the very least the final version =[

 

[SpiderMad]

^Anyone?

GCT EDIT, open an unmodified .gct (keep a backup somewhere too), add the code (take out spaces, if it still won't add export the .gct into a text file and then add the code to the text file and then re-open it in .gct edit and export to .gct)

http://www.mediafire.com/?my2iuknzz0y

 

[Strong Badam]

^Anyone?

http://www.mediafire.com/?btkke7qz04g53bp

GaretHax: The PMBR doesn't intend to add RSBE to the codeset until such time as Project M requires it for its content. If we end up using custom SFX in the next version, we will include it.

 

[Wrestlemania]

^Anyone?

Link
That link has the Perfect Shield noise, the RSBE and the stage volume equalizer already added to the file

Edit: Looks like I was slow to the punch.

 

[Spiffykins]

If Fox was released tomorrow, everyone would think he sucks. "Omg Fox has like 1 kill move upsmash, uair sucks can be SDI'd rofl gg PMBR. Wow you can cancel shine maybe there are cool things you can do with it. This character is too hard to play as, #unviable. Fox will never win tournaments. Can't even recover, has no range, gets chaingrabbed forever."

If Fox was released tomorrow, everyone would figure out how to play him reasonably effectively in a matter of weeks rather than the years it took in Melee, and even then it was clear early on that he was high tier. His ****ing up tilt kills almost as fast as most smashes.

u high bro

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

Huh? What is messed up about Links rang? Also, I can DI out of mk's uair strings fine.

It goes off at weird angles, when you throw it straight, it goes slightly down at the end of the animation, angling it up is fine, but if you angle it down to bounce it off the ground while you're standing on the ground, it bounces immediately so it doesn't even bounce, it just goes up as if you had just angled it up

Try it out yourself, stand on the ground, and throw the boomerang angled down at the ground, you'll see what I mean, it just goes straight up as if you just angled it up, and if you look closely when you throw it straight, you can see it dips down at the edge of it's range, it's incredibly frustrating because my friend shield-reflects pretty consistently and now I can't bounce the rang off the ground unless I jump, and there's even been times where I've sword I threw it at one angle and it goes off at another

 

[ValTroX]

:D thanks guys!

 

[Hylian]

It goes off at weird angles, when you throw it straight, it goes slightly down at the end of the animation, angling it up is fine, but if you angle it down to bounce it off the ground while you're standing on the ground, it bounces immediately so it doesn't even bounce, it just goes up as if you had just angled it up

Try it out yourself, stand on the ground, and throw the boomerang angled down at the ground, you'll see what I mean, it just goes straight up as if you just angled it up, and if you look closely when you throw it straight, you can see it dips down at the edge of it's range, it's incredibly frustrating because my friend shield-reflects pretty consistently and now I can't bounce the rang off the ground unless I jump, and there's even been times where I've sword I threw it at one angle and it goes off at another

Did it do this in 2.6 or only 2.6b? I had no problems with it while practicing for nerd rage and no problems at the tournament itself. Did you watch my matches? Did you see something wrong with it I'm not seeing? I'll test it out, I'm just wondering why no one told me about this or posted about it in bug reports >_>, could have been fixed.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Did it do this in 2.6 or only 2.6b? I had no problems with it while practicing for nerd rage and no problems at the tournament itself. Did you watch my matches? Did you see something wrong with it I'm not seeing? I'll test it out, I'm just wondering why no one told me about this or posted about it in bug reports >_>, could have been fixed.

I think it's only a 2.6b thing because in 2.6 it looked like Link chopped the boomerang from above his head where as now the attack comes out in the middle of his body as he throws it from his side.

 

[Vashimus]

When all is said and done, MK will be top 5-6 in this game along Peach/Sheik/Marth if he doesn't get massively nerfed.

Meta Knight can do some REALLY DUMB **** in this game. Like Strong Bad said, you just can't make this character bad without forcing it.

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

Did it do this in 2.6 or only 2.6b? I had no problems with it while practicing for nerd rage and no problems at the tournament itself. Did you watch my matches? Did you see something wrong with it I'm not seeing? I'll test it out, I'm just wondering why no one told me about this or posted about it in bug reports >_>, could have been fixed.

It's only in 2.6b, I think it has to do with reverting to the old animation, it's essentially crippled the boomerang against small characters on the ground, there's no way to hit them with the boomerang now unless you jump first

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Meta Knight can do some REALLY DUMB **** in this game. Like Strong Bad said, you just can't make this character bad without forcing it.

Metaknight should teach Kirby how to keep his powers when getting beaten up. Maybe then he'd be as naturally good as he is.

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

The forums won't let me edit my post, so I'll just add that I just found this out yesterday and reported it last night in the 2.6b release thread, I didn't even know there was a bug report thread, I don't come on here often

But I can assure you this wasn't a problem in 2.6, the problem only exists in 2.6b

Any chance there could be an update file fix or something for tournaments? I don't think it would be bad to do an additional update for more bug fixes, this one is a really noticeable and annoying one for a Link main

 

[dodgepong]

My workplace in Bellingham, WA is having another in-office Project M tournament. We love playing at work during lunch breaks, and our ladder has been super active ever since the last tournament last month. The last tournament was a huge success, in no small part thanks to viewers from the community hanging out and blowing up the chat. You guys are awesome. Join us again tonight!

http://twitch.tv/dodgepong

 

[Kink-Link5]

You may need to shift DI based on where MK hits you with Uair. You may get sent at varying trajectories if you are in front of him compared to near the back of him. If that's the case, holding one direction constantly might just keep you popped straight up most of the time.

You want to DI the move away from whichever side of you MK is, basically. Is it 45 degrees that's the maximum you can press on the stick to change the angle by something like 16 degrees?

[collapse=MK Uair]

[/collapse]

Depending on the stage, character, percent, et cetera, you'll want to get out of the move by getting out to the side so as to avoid further uairs at low percents, and upward (with upward SDI as well) to get up and away from his shuttle loop at higher percents.

ALSO, the top-behind hitbox has the highest priority of the move, so if he hits you directly on top of him, you'll be sent backward slightly.

 

[Oro?!]

Streaming some pm for a couple of hours.

www.twitch.tv/kappylp

 

[DrinkingFood]

Is it 45 degrees that's the maximum you can press on the stick to change the angle by something like 16 degrees?

90° away gets you a 18° angle difference
it's a nice 1/5 ratio

 

[ELI-mination]

I honestly wouldn't mind PAL Spacies though maybe a middle-ground between NTSC and PAL would be best? Honestly people really exaggerate when they talk about fox for some reason, his frame data is good because all of his moves are average or better. I take that back, it isn't just his moves, nearly all of his properties are average or better, though he is lighter than pikachu: Jumpsquat is the same as shiek, fastfall is slower than falco/n, nair's range isn't as awesome as people seem to think, yes shine is stupid lord shut up about it though please (I actually don't mind the 1 Fran of invincibility missing and I clash with **** all the time with shine /shrug), acceleration is tied with Marth, jab is fast but i think it is tied for either first or second place in speed, horizontal aireal control/mobility is actually tied with Falco for being the worst in melee, etc. for ever and ever. The reality is that Fox is good because all of his moves are useful and work well together, that combined with his particular properties as a character really make something scary. Without the shine he would probably be okay, though he would be an insanely campy, laser based character, probably still B or A tier however /shrug. The reality is he doesn't compete well enough to deserve all the exaggeration. And yes ELI we have had this discussion before the design of the character doesn't fit in smash, IIRC you admitted you liked it overall, but that it is just plain stupid in smash, or at least invalidated complaints about other characters having stupid moves or designs. I'm not debating that, I can't since I agree with it. However the silly exaggeration has to stop M2K did frame analysis, if people really want to see how all his moves stack up they should check it out. (Also yes usmash is good, pika's is better, shiek's sweetspot is better, Sweetspot marth usmash is close too iirc, also tipper fsmash kills pretty early too I hear. Gimps also exist, just about every character can do it, Fox's shine happens to be very good at gimping, but so are all of shiek's aireals, marth's aireals, actually I could go on for way too long with this Nvm.) The only point I'm trying to make is that Fox is not some leviathan-juggernaught only capable of being defeated at the hands of the PMBR coders. He can be beaten, period.
I'm not going to argue on the legitimacy, or lack-thereof, of his moveset as I have my own , admittedly unique, view on that.
Just my .02 though
Mk wesome, dude is fast, mobile, good at gimping, tech-chasing, PMBR did a great job with him, though he still seems pretty powerful when played super-campy and passive.

GaretHax I'd actually wanna discuss this at some point, but I'm getting pretty damn sick of typing up long-winded smash discussion. So maybe I'll let you in on a future skype discussion or one of our podcasts or something. Same thing for Oro, because I know dat ***** is entertaining as ****.

 

[Oro?!]

Sure, let me know when you want my services.

 

[Foxy_Faux]

So what does the removal or inclusion of invincibility on shine actually effect?
Also was wolf made slower to act out of d-throw and b-throw because it linked easily into side-b finishers?
cuz it does away with a pseudo chaingrab/ throw mixup against floaties which was oh so dope. I think i would've rather he kept the speed to act out of it rather than the ability to angle side-b anyway since I guess I really just don't take enough advantage of it anyway

 

[Kink-Link5]

Shine no longer auto-wins random interactions and at worst trades in those situations if not out-right beats the opponent's move because it comes out on frame 1 and extends further than its animation.

The only thing it changes is that now Spacies can't randomly get something started out of the middle of being combo'd.

 

[Yung Mei]

guys, my neighbor downstairs is smoking hella pot, and i think im accidentally riding shotgun help

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

I would love to see some further tweaks to the Melee Top Tier. As awesome as they are; they lack that flair Project M has injected into characters like Ike, Ganon,Diddy etc.To elaborate, I do not want to see a destruction of their play style, but would enjoy seeing new means of achieving it. It would be fantastic to see new discoveries and techniques found for characters like Fox and Falco, techniques and moves that further balance the cast; and give them that awesome character you find in Pit, Ike, Wario, and the like. :/

 

[Kink-Link5]

Fox and Falco don't need any new tricks to be "cool."

Peach and Sheik? Nah.

Marth and Jigglypuff? Maybe.

Falcon? Maybe, side-B spike is... Different.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

I wouldn't mind a way to use Marth's Brawl style Shield Breaker, even if the Melee one is superior, the Brawl version reflects his actual combat from Fire Emblem.

It also might be nice to jump out of Rollout with Puff or to use sing as more than a backwards ledge grab or extra taunt.

Not so sure about the practical applications of most of this though.

 

[hotdogturtle]

It also might be nice to jump out of Rollout with Puff

And keep momentum? And use Rest out of that momentum? Please please please?

You put the idea in my head and now I'm sad that I'll never see this.

 

[Wrestlemania]

I think making sing useful in some way would be nice.

 

[CyberZixx]

Marth and Peach are still my favorite characters in the game, none of the brawl designs compete. Royalty power! I could see changes for falcon and Jiggs and hope for changes to spacies. Shiek is fine right now.

 

[Kati]

Marth's melee neutral b covers a lot more space than brawl's. You can hit people below the ledge I think with melee's shield breaker swing; likewise, if a Marth player wants the large sweep of the f-smash, but knows the opponent is coming in too high (say if a spacie is recovering with >b) they can use neutral-b in the air to get the same effect.

I do like the stab though, it's just not as good.