MTL Kyle
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2014
- Messages
- 269
After bashing the idea, I will try to put some input in this.
Mind that :
- Stages and ruleset make a huge difference in Project M
- A lot of numbers might not reflect the actual full potential of the character. A lot of the data might be screwed up because no region can possibly have all characters at high level being played.
- Some characters are really polarized and have a lot of bad matchups to the point where it becomes frustrating to compete with it (namely big bodies and floaties). PM has too many stages and characters available, I suggest to the players to getting used to the idea of classifying some characters as counterpicks.
vs
65 : 35
Momentum and lead have a big role in this matchup, as either character has a huge advantage as soon the first stock is taken and invincibility is over. While Peach does have an advantage with high damage, extended combos, 40% DSmash and in edgeguarding, this matchup is not as free as people think it is and it's not fun if Bowser takes the first stock and starts trading/holding center stage.
vs
35 : 65
Falcon recovers better, has an easier time pulling off combos as the dash timing is not as harsh in this game, has a better recovery and cannot be chaingrabed as much.
I would say this matchup is even beyond what I put here, but I hate Falcon and I am too biased to say anything about this lol
vs
60 : 40
Big bodies get pooped on, specially when they have bad recovery like Zard. He controls the center stage very well and it requires a bit of matchup knowledge to understand all the DI mixups and tricks that Charizard has.
vs
70 : 30
Big body with a not so optimal gameplan against Peach.
He has a linear recovery, doesn't sweetspot the ledge, his shield is negated by the insane pressure strings Peach has an his camping game is not as good against Peach.
He kills her fast and has some cool gimmicks to compensate some stuff.
vs
60 : 40
Wario gets punished way too often by hitting Peaches shield, his grabs aside from down throw don't lead to anything meaningful, which makes shielding safe and his pressure strings are not the best.
The fart is meaninful in the matchup, specially if he wants to play it safe and drag it out.
His recovery is not very good, but you can get clipped by a lot of UpBs if you don't pay attention.
vs
55:45
TBH, I think this matchup in Melee is an endless progression towards a 5:5 that will never happen simply because of how simple is to pull out Sheik's main objectives in the matchup.
In PM it's different, Sheik is easier to edgeguard, her shield is dumb but not as much, you outprioritize a bunch of stuff (dair in PM is really good lol) and without the super easy Dthrow follow ups, I think Peach has a solid case in winning this matchup.
vs
65 : 35
Hard counter.
Squirtle approaches are pretty linear and he suffers a little bit of the Pikachu syndrome (stubby arms, no decent ground options, aerials get ****ed by CC DSmash), even worse when all his other unconventional options are covered by basic stuff.
Did he Withdraw ? DSmash, byebye armor and turtle.
Did he jump and did whatever ? Anti air Nair.
vs
65 : 35
Hard Counter.
Get a % lead. Crouch in the middle of the stage. Watch the world burn as all the options Pikachu has are covered by CC > DSmash or even just flat out DSmashing if he tries to grab you rofl. Run Up Shield is also not an option because his shield is sad. Best option might be approach with a run up upsmash after 40% ? lol
Never seen a Pikachu trying to gimmick his approaches with QAC, but from what I've seen, this matchup is pretty sad.
vs
60 : 40
Imagine playing against Shiek, but without the interesting parts of the matchup.
Olimar's movement is better and more interesting, and his grab game is better (not his throw game though), but he lacks the mixups and threatening game that Sheik has. His aerials are pretty good but he gets corner pressured way too easily and I feel he has to outplay Peach way too much.
I didn't play this matchup as much as I wanted to, but theorycraft 101 tells me Peach wins this
vs
55 : 45
TRIGGER WARNING : PMDT's Bad design.
Ness gameplay is interesting, but he still has some core failures in his kit.
The matchup is kinda weird, but tl;dr, Ness doesn't deal with projectiles very well. Either you force him to the corner or you force him to jump.
Floating above him is also pretty good, best punish he can do is a fair or a rising nair, which usually lead to nothing and you can do stuff like cross up nair (which he has trouble dealing with), fair his face/shield and do Peach stuff
vs
40 : 60
It's the baby of Marth and Puff, what do you expect, a good matchup ?! Numbers might be worse, but so far, that's how I feel about it.
In this patch he has better killing tools (he gets edgeguarded better, however) and he can afford to do some risky stuff (Dimensional Cape combos).
CC is really strong, but his dash dance, grab and throw games are amazing and you shouldn't fish for it too much.
vs
10 : 90
This matchup is sad and I don't even want to write about it.
vs
20 : 80
He is Peach, but without commiting as much, better frame data (at least 3.5 was like that) and with a better matchup spread.
This matchup number is not exaggerated and it truly reflects how I felt about the character in 3.5.
With the late Nair changes it might be less bad, but it's not that much of a drastic change (still pretty important one lol)
vs
Soon. Peach loses though lmao
I will edit this post and write the rest soon, I don't feel like doing it all right now
Mind that :
- Stages and ruleset make a huge difference in Project M
- A lot of numbers might not reflect the actual full potential of the character. A lot of the data might be screwed up because no region can possibly have all characters at high level being played.
- Some characters are really polarized and have a lot of bad matchups to the point where it becomes frustrating to compete with it (namely big bodies and floaties). PM has too many stages and characters available, I suggest to the players to getting used to the idea of classifying some characters as counterpicks.
vs
65 : 35
Momentum and lead have a big role in this matchup, as either character has a huge advantage as soon the first stock is taken and invincibility is over. While Peach does have an advantage with high damage, extended combos, 40% DSmash and in edgeguarding, this matchup is not as free as people think it is and it's not fun if Bowser takes the first stock and starts trading/holding center stage.
vs
35 : 65
Falcon recovers better, has an easier time pulling off combos as the dash timing is not as harsh in this game, has a better recovery and cannot be chaingrabed as much.
I would say this matchup is even beyond what I put here, but I hate Falcon and I am too biased to say anything about this lol
vs
60 : 40
Big bodies get pooped on, specially when they have bad recovery like Zard. He controls the center stage very well and it requires a bit of matchup knowledge to understand all the DI mixups and tricks that Charizard has.
vs
70 : 30
Big body with a not so optimal gameplan against Peach.
He has a linear recovery, doesn't sweetspot the ledge, his shield is negated by the insane pressure strings Peach has an his camping game is not as good against Peach.
He kills her fast and has some cool gimmicks to compensate some stuff.
vs
60 : 40
Wario gets punished way too often by hitting Peaches shield, his grabs aside from down throw don't lead to anything meaningful, which makes shielding safe and his pressure strings are not the best.
The fart is meaninful in the matchup, specially if he wants to play it safe and drag it out.
His recovery is not very good, but you can get clipped by a lot of UpBs if you don't pay attention.
vs
55:45
TBH, I think this matchup in Melee is an endless progression towards a 5:5 that will never happen simply because of how simple is to pull out Sheik's main objectives in the matchup.
In PM it's different, Sheik is easier to edgeguard, her shield is dumb but not as much, you outprioritize a bunch of stuff (dair in PM is really good lol) and without the super easy Dthrow follow ups, I think Peach has a solid case in winning this matchup.
vs
65 : 35
Hard counter.
Squirtle approaches are pretty linear and he suffers a little bit of the Pikachu syndrome (stubby arms, no decent ground options, aerials get ****ed by CC DSmash), even worse when all his other unconventional options are covered by basic stuff.
Did he Withdraw ? DSmash, byebye armor and turtle.
Did he jump and did whatever ? Anti air Nair.
vs
65 : 35
Hard Counter.
Get a % lead. Crouch in the middle of the stage. Watch the world burn as all the options Pikachu has are covered by CC > DSmash or even just flat out DSmashing if he tries to grab you rofl. Run Up Shield is also not an option because his shield is sad. Best option might be approach with a run up upsmash after 40% ? lol
Never seen a Pikachu trying to gimmick his approaches with QAC, but from what I've seen, this matchup is pretty sad.
vs
60 : 40
Imagine playing against Shiek, but without the interesting parts of the matchup.
Olimar's movement is better and more interesting, and his grab game is better (not his throw game though), but he lacks the mixups and threatening game that Sheik has. His aerials are pretty good but he gets corner pressured way too easily and I feel he has to outplay Peach way too much.
I didn't play this matchup as much as I wanted to, but theorycraft 101 tells me Peach wins this
vs
55 : 45
TRIGGER WARNING : PMDT's Bad design.
Ness recovery is flat out ********.
Recovering high > Abusing questionable frame data to recover > get the center stage for free against characters that don't have disjoints is frustrating.
"Space yourself, Shield and Punish with a grab or OoS aerial"
Recovering high > Abusing questionable frame data to recover > get the center stage for free against characters that don't have disjoints is frustrating.
"Space yourself, Shield and Punish with a grab or OoS aerial"
The matchup is kinda weird, but tl;dr, Ness doesn't deal with projectiles very well. Either you force him to the corner or you force him to jump.
Floating above him is also pretty good, best punish he can do is a fair or a rising nair, which usually lead to nothing and you can do stuff like cross up nair (which he has trouble dealing with), fair his face/shield and do Peach stuff
vs
40 : 60
It's the baby of Marth and Puff, what do you expect, a good matchup ?! Numbers might be worse, but so far, that's how I feel about it.
In this patch he has better killing tools (he gets edgeguarded better, however) and he can afford to do some risky stuff (Dimensional Cape combos).
CC is really strong, but his dash dance, grab and throw games are amazing and you shouldn't fish for it too much.
vs
10 : 90
This matchup is sad and I don't even want to write about it.
vs
20 : 80
He is Peach, but without commiting as much, better frame data (at least 3.5 was like that) and with a better matchup spread.
This matchup number is not exaggerated and it truly reflects how I felt about the character in 3.5.
With the late Nair changes it might be less bad, but it's not that much of a drastic change (still pretty important one lol)
vs
Soon. Peach loses though lmao
I will edit this post and write the rest soon, I don't feel like doing it all right now
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