Project GENO - MarioDK Demo out

[GenoWhirl9999]

Sheiks needles may work for the finger bullets, or mayhaps bullet seed if you could orient it differently. Bullet seed has a really good sound effect to go along with it to boot.

 

[phantomphungus]

I think that before you work on the final smash's canon, you should make the final smash itself be fully functional.

 

[Megaman X]

Would hitting A at the right time during the item taunt giving him the Geno Boost effect on the ground be an option? It would definitely be SMRPG-like.

 

[GenoWhirl9999]

Would hitting A at the right time during the item taunt giving him the Geno Boost effect on the ground be an option? It would definitely be SMRPG-like.

That would be awesome, and it would fix his ground game to a certain extent (depending on the effects it would have on his moves). What does that taunt do now, anything special?

 

[IndigoFenix]

No, although the 'item taunt' looks like it heals him, it's just a taunt that is based on the way he used items in SMRPG. I personally like to stay traditional and keep taunts as being just that - taunts. Luigi and Snake are exceptions in that their taunts can do damage, but tiny damage and small, set knockback for a super-laggy move will never be part of a character's game, so their oddity isn't really much justification to breaking this rule.

I considered making Geno Boost have a timed effect, but the truth is that I couldn't find a simple way to make it work exactly like it does in SMRPG and still work well. Technically, it should first raise attack power and then raise defense if you get a timed hit, but how do you incorporate that into a recovery move? I eventually decided to just give it both of these aspects by giving him super armor at the beginning (defense up) and raising attack power on his aerials afterwards (attack up). That's close enough, I think.

Despite that, I'm glad to see that people are trying to come up with ways to make Cosmic Geno more similar to SMRPG's Geno, making him feel like said character was my original intention, and the fact that people are noticing the differences between the SMRPG incarnation and the Smash incarnation shows that I'm mostly successful in that goal.

 

[Shadic]

I'm still having issues trying to port over your specials, Indigo. I noticed your clearing bits in most of Geno's basic ground movements, which I believe is the blue glow, correct? Either way, he crashes whenever I do anything other than stand. If you (or anybody, I suppose) could figure out what's different between this test, (WILL CRASH) and yours, I'd much appreciate it. Although if anybody can figure out why moving is crashing, I would suggest staying away from DownB, as that will likely also crash.. (Most of the code for it is removed) I've just got other plans for that.

Besides that, I've actually set out to replace most all of Geno's movement animations. I'll have a test set out later to get some opinions, and if people like them, I'll keep it in. It makes him a bit stockier, but as you can see here:

He's kinda stocky anyways. As I play more with it, I actually am liking it quite a bit. It also makes him no longer look like he's holding a sword and shield, so bonus points for that.

Edit: Okay, got a test up. Download.

Essentially, all Geno's basic movements are replaced, mostly from the Mother Boys. I'd really like some opinions of his Walks/Runs, crouch, jump (Both forward and backward, first and second). I have changed around a few other things (Dthrow has a better animation, new landing animations for a few moves) as well. So yeah, there's that as well.

So yes, please try it out and give feedback. I can't make a decision otherwise.

Also, the new poses shrink him a little bit. I'm thinking about upping his size a bit so he's the same height as Mario again. Opinion?

 

[GenoWhirl9999]

I love the stockier build, it helps a lot with capturing his appearance! Right now, he is the same height as Mario, so I think you should keep that. I love how he can chain aerials, but I fear that fair may be too good. Perhaps alter its trajectory or make it knockback less. The dash attack looks a bit awkward, but I don't know what would be better. Perhaps he could throw a star, or do a spinny move, or do something to the effect of falcon's side b (raptor boost). I'm not sure if you were going for this, but Utilt hits below Geno a decent way (kinda weird when you up tilt and and hit someone below the platform your on). D throw looks lovely with the sparky effect, but the other throws lack the starry effect of the forward smash (I think it might fit better). Crouch animation is all that it needs to be. Walking is nice (like he's sneaking through the forest), but the running animation needs work. I think it should be less "army", because his arms look a bit silly. I think it might suit Geno a bit better to have a more forward leaning/hunched run (somewhere in between what we have now and sheik's completely horizontal running). Jumping is good, but believe it or not I think Falco's jump/spin might be good here. Adding a few stars falling off of him as he twirls could be interesting. My only other suggestions are, if you are still resizing things, to make his cap a tad smaller, and maybe change the brown shield to a blue color. Great Geno, great work!

Oh and one final thing: On the opening page of this thread, it says that the sword and shield are gone...that just means from his hands right? Otherwise, the version I downloaded still has it on, and he pulls them out during shielding. Sorry for the misunderstanding on my part, and thanks again for the opportunity to throw out some ideas!

 

[Eldiran]

Just popping in to say the animation changes are all great, and I love the throws in particular.

 

[Shadic]

Oh and one final thing: On the opening page of this thread, it says that the sword and shield are gone...that just means from his hands right? Otherwise, the version I downloaded still has it on, and he pulls them out during shielding. Sorry for the misunderstanding on my part, and thanks again for the opportunity to throw out some ideas!

If you get the texture included in my (Fighter) Geno .pac, the sword and shield are removed COMPLETELY.

Thanks for feedback though. Getting animations is a bit difficult. I've not touched editing how they actually look, but I'm going to look into that. If anybody reading this has experience with it and wants to port over Fox's Run with fixed body size and proportions, that'd be amazing.

As for size, he's actually a bit shorter than Mario now. I'm thinking maybe a 10% increase to see how things look. (He's currently at 110% from Toon Link) I want him to be the exact same height as Mario, because as far as we can tell, that's how tall he is.

Just popping in to say the animation changes are all great, and I love the throws in particular.

Thanks much.

 

[IndigoFenix]

Nice... And this gets rid of the animation choppiness on his aerials too. I'm going to have to consider doing the same, although it's going to take a lot of work fixing everything else up...

 

[Shadic]

Glad to see the animations were popular. Gonna clean them up a little bit, as well. This problem still persists though:

I'm still having issues trying to port over your specials, Indigo. I noticed your clearing bits in most of Geno's basic ground movements, which I believe is the blue glow, correct? Either way, he crashes whenever I do anything other than stand. If you (or anybody, I suppose) could figure out what's different between this test, (WILL CRASH) and yours, I'd much appreciate it. Although if anybody can figure out why moving is crashing, I would suggest staying away from DownB, as that will likely also crash.. (Most of the code for it is removed) I've just got other plans for that.

 

[IndigoFenix]

Oh, no - the changes in his standing and moving subactions is for Geno Boost. It activates a variable that increases his attack power but causes any further use of Geno Boost to not move upwards, and resets when he touches the ground. So... I'm not sure how that could be causing problems. Feel free to take Cosmic Geno altogether and edit him however you want, if that's what it'll take to make it work.

 

[Shadic]

I was actually trying to take that mechanic of Geno Boost as well.

 

[Douhneill]

Hey guys, nice job with Geno. I'm waiting to see how the final results could end up, though I have a few questions about cosmic Geno.

1) Geno whirl: what's your impressions on that move? Because it seems somewhat gamebreaking for my experience with it.

2) Have you considered using a smaller version of the smoke ball model (or perhaps peanuts/wario's bike's wheels) for the bullet shot? It'd actually be pretty interesting to see them ricochet in different directions. Similarly, could Ftilt use like a hand-shaped object (hammerhead, perhaps?) for the animation?

3) Not that I have any real idea as to how exactly brawl deals with different B moves during landing, but how exactly do you code Geno blast, and what is the problem when it lands? It is one of my favourite moves to see, and it irritates me that you are stuck on the ground in order to use it.

4) Actually, this is more of an overall Geno thing moreso than specifically Cosmic Geno, but are you planning on having a different model and different animations (rather than using TL's) by the time you are done?

I haven't had any time to test out fighter Geno yet, so I'll put in my two cents when I have them. Sorry if I sound somewhat rude or demanding, I tend to do that whenever I want to add my own input into a project like this.

 

[IndigoFenix]

Hey guys, nice job with Geno. I'm waiting to see how the final results could end up, though I have a few questions about cosmic Geno.

1) Geno whirl: what's your impressions on that move? Because it seems somewhat gamebreaking for my experience with it.

2) Have you considered using a smaller version of the smoke ball model (or perhaps peanuts/wario's bike's wheels) for the bullet shot? It'd actually be pretty interesting to see them ricochet in different directions. Similarly, could Ftilt use like a hand-shaped object (hammerhead, perhaps?) for the animation?

3) Not that I have any real idea as to how exactly brawl deals with different B moves during landing, but how exactly do you code Geno blast, and what is the problem when it lands? It is one of my favourite moves to see, and it irritates me that you are stuck on the ground in order to use it.

4) Actually, this is more of an overall Geno thing moreso than specifically Cosmic Geno, but are you planning on having a different model and different animations (rather than using TL's) by the time you are done?

I haven't had any time to test out fighter Geno yet, so I'll put in my two cents when I have them. Sorry if I sound somewhat rude or demanding, I tend to do that whenever I want to add my own input into a project like this.

Well, here's my answers:

1) Geno Whirl is powerful if you master the timed hit, but because of its long starting lag and easily noticed special effect (the star that appears when you're about to throw it), most opponents can predict and dodge or counter it pretty easily, timed hit or no timed hit. It's main use is as a surprise attack when the opponent is on the offensive (such as while Geno's jumping back towards the stage), or as a counterattack against powerful, laggy (or charging) moves.

2) I'm still trying to figure out how to import models as effects, but I'll keep these ones in mind. It won't be able to ricochet, though, that would be a little too fancy for a normal jab.

3) Geno Blast is basically a combination between cleverly placed, rotated, and enlarged special effects - the blast itself is actually the 'spark' effect that appears in some special attacks and when you just barely miss someone with a normal attack, enlarged to tremendous proportions. The hitboxes are fake projectiles - just a set of normal, circular hitboxes placed over the area where the graphics show up. There are 3 reasons why I made it only work on the ground:
A. Balancing purposes - ground moves are much easier to dodge or counter than air moves, and I wanted it to be a high-risk high-reward move.
B. Whenever I tried to make either Blast or Beam chargable in the air, the charge would reset after hitting the ground, probably a result of the looping animations involved. This got too confusing, so I took it out altogether.
C. The combination of animations I used to make the charge were supposed to look like the same pose that Geno does in SMRPG right before firing the Geno Blast, and it would have looked really weird in the air.

4) We'll wait and see what happens when model editing becomes a possibility. I'm working on figuring out how to change his animations to Ness all-around in order to avoid shrinking/stretching, but he'll never be truly complete until a model is designed for him. These are still the pioneering days of Brawl hacking. I predict that someday... Have you ever seen the hacks made for Half Life's engine? That's what I'm thinking Brawl will become.

 

[Douhneill]

Thanks for answering. I'm seriously intent on playing a complete Geno, and I want to help out as much as I can. Keep up the good work, I'm looking forward to future releases.

 

[DeltaV]

I remember an attack called Geno flash. Geno transforms into a cannon and shoots a red blast at the opponents. The blast stops after travelling a set distance, and begins to grow, overwhelming the enemy.
The blast should grow to amazing proportions, and then dissapear, giving much knockback.
what do you think abou the idea?
EDIT: nvm it, just found out it already is the final smash...

 

[Shadic]

Okay, I've just about got every move working now, but his UpB crashes for some awkward reason.

Also Indigo - What's the difference between 1DC and 1DD? RA-bit[17] seems to control it, but I'm not sure what that is, exactly. Likewise, what's IC-bit [247]?

Here's a link to my Geno at the moment. The UpB crashes right at activation.

Because of the crash, I can't test it at the moment, but I should have the same "Geno Boosted Aerial attacks" in my set now, as well.

If anybody can figure out what's going wrong there, they'd have my thanks.

Also: Douhneill - I look forward to you testing out my Geno as well. Feedback is always awesome.

 

[IndigoFenix]

Okay, I've just about got every move working now, but his UpB crashes for some awkward reason.

Also Indigo - What's the difference between 1DC and 1DD? RA-bit[17] seems to control it, but I'm not sure what that is, exactly. Likewise, what's IC-bit [247]?

Here's a link to my Geno at the moment. The UpB crashes right at activation.

Because of the crash, I can't test it at the moment, but I should have the same "Geno Boosted Aerial attacks" in my set now, as well.

If anybody can figure out what's going wrong there, they'd have my thanks.

Also: Douhneill - I look forward to you testing out my Geno as well. Feedback is always awesome.

The only difference between 1DC and 1DD is that 1DC is the ground version, and 1DD is the aerial version. I'm still trying to make both versions work the same as what the aerial version is now, but I can't figure out how to make it so that he always goes up the same distance and can be moved left and right while he's rising. I don't know what IC-bit [247] does, it's probably just the remains from someone else's move that I copied and didn't remove because it worked.

As for me... I'm trying to make a new graphic for Geno Whirl. I know people didn't have a problem with it as it is, but I want it to look exactly like it did in SMRPG - you know, the Razor-Edged Doughnut of Death.

 

[Shadic]

Aha, figured out the crash. It was something dumb I was experimenting with before that crashed and I never got around to removing it. Fixed that.

Gonna tweak some values, work on a new move, and should hopefully have a new set out before too long.

Indigo - I look forward to that new graphic. I'll just have to port it over to mine.

 

[Douhneill]

Shadic - I'll be testing out your Geno today or tommorow. The right link is on the first page, right?

Meanwhile, I've been doing some research on model hacking (sorta). Once I can, I'll post a basic idea as to what I think he could look like (cuz remember, EVERYONE looks stocky in SMBRPG, especially Mallow). Anyway, if I CAN do something, I'll let you know.

 

[Shadic]

If you take the texture included in my pack in the first post, and then download this:
Link.
You'll have the most recent thing I've released. The texture is vital, as it removes Toon Link's sword and shield.

The non-OP link has movement animations changed, so it feels much less like Toon Link.

 

[zephyrnereus]

wait, so youre saying if I use the Geno texture in your set, the sword and shield are gone? would they still be invisible if I used cosmic geno or normal toon link?

 

[IndigoFenix]

wait, so youre saying if I use the Geno texture in your set, the sword and shield are gone? would they still be invisible if I used cosmic geno or normal toon link?

Yes. Deleting model parts is connected to the texture only, so it'll work regardless of anything else.

I'd still like to get the same sort of thing for the texture I use. I think it was made by the same person but a more perfected version (not entirely sure, though). Doesn't bother me too much, though.

 

[zephyrnereus]

which geno texture is it? I believe the one Im using is Androu1's Geno from stack smash... is it the same or a different one? cause if it isnt, I'd rather keep the one I have.

also just curious, when is the new cosmic geno gonna be ready? I really want to see what new changes you gave him.

 

[Shadic]

wait, so youre saying if I use the Geno texture in your set, the sword and shield are gone? would they still be invisible if I used cosmic geno or normal toon link?

It's tied to textures, but yes.

Try out the Geno in my set. If you look at the screenshots, you'll see the texture and the lack of sword/shield.

Edit: Finally managed to port over Geno all the way. Whew. Indigo - What exactly determines the bitset and whatnot for subaction 1DC? Because sometimes I'll go flying half the height of New Pork City, and sometimes I'll barely lift off the ground, and this can happen with both rises set the same.

 

[Douhneill]

Okay, I've been using the wrong files...
Fortunately, I've got extra time before my parents show up @ home today, so I can (hopefully) finish downloading a 3d model program to see what I can do for the model, although I have a few ideas that are technically wrong interpretations of the character (wrong materials used for particular parts of the body, etc), but I'll leave the final say to the rest of you.
UNFORTUNATELY, I have no clue whatsoever as to how the animations work, but once I know how, I'll start working on it. I'll let you know so you can just tell me what you want them to look like, but then you can spend more of your time working on the moves themselves.

 

[IndigoFenix]

It's tied to textures, but yes.

Try out the Geno in my set. If you look at the screenshots, you'll see the texture and the lack of sword/shield.

Edit: Finally managed to port over Geno all the way. Whew. Indigo - What exactly determines the bitset and whatnot for subaction 1DC? Because sometimes I'll go flying half the height of New Pork City, and sometimes I'll barely lift off the ground, and this can happen with both rises set the same.

It's pretty much exactly what it looks like - 132 is set right after the rise, and it controls both the attack boost and the height of the jump (in order to prevent infinite air time), and is reset in every subaction on the ground. Why it occasionally seems to fail, and why the ground version lifts off to ridiculous heights, I still haven't figured out. It seems that the ground version fails if you use it right after landing while Boosted, perhaps because he doesn't go through a single frame of a ground animation, so the bit isn't cleared. That isn't really such a major issue gameplay-wise, since you really shouldn't be spamming it on the ground unless you're trying to stall the match, but on rare occasions the air version seems to fail and mess up your recovery, and I don't know why. Fortunately this happens very rarely, if at all.

 

[Shadic]

The ground one failing is a shortcoming of the momentum codes, as the same thing happened to me on my other UpB. It has to do with getting hit at a certain time.

I figured it wasn't getting set all the time, which is annoying, because the difference between a proper Grounded Geno Boost and a glitchy one is huge due to my physics. I'll have to continue tweaking to figure out something acceptable, then I can get to work (Finally!) on a new special. This regression on my Geno work was driving me crazy.

 

[Eldiran]

If you guys have dabbled in BrawlBox at all, you could edit the Up+B animation to move TLink. You can do that by modifying the Translation of the bone TransN, then check Moves Character in PSA.

 

[Shadic]

...That would be so much better than just relying on momentum. And would work regardless of gravity, and not be glitchy, correct?

Does anybody here know how to do it very well? Can I bug you later, Eldiran? Thanks for the advice.

 

[Eldiran]

...That would be so much better than just relying on momentum. And would work regardless of gravity, and not be glitchy, correct?

Does anybody here know how to do it very well? Can I bug you later, Eldiran? Thanks for the advice.

No problem. I'm fairly certain I know how to do it. Or rather, I'm fairly certain my idea of how to do it works. Either way it would not suffer any of the problems you're describing. Basically, you go to the animation you want, find the bone TransN, and, using the arrows, go to the last frame of the animation. Then, you input the distance you want covered in terms of X, Y, and Z into the proper Translation fields. That's pretty much all there is to it, methinks.

 

[IndigoFenix]

No problem. I'm fairly certain I know how to do it. Or rather, I'm fairly certain my idea of how to do it works. Either way it would not suffer any of the problems you're describing. Basically, you go to the animation you want, find the bone TransN, and, using the arrows, go to the last frame of the animation. Then, you input the distance you want covered in terms of X, Y, and Z into the proper Translation fields. That's pretty much all there is to it, methinks.

I don't think it would be quite that easy. Seems that the Translation and Rotation fields have data on every frame, so you'd have to put the offset in every frame, not just the last one. Not difficult, but a real pain.

Once we can preview animations in BrawlBox, we can actually create new, more suitable animations instead of having to stick with trying to swap in the ones we've already got. As is, I usually only have a chance to run tests on the Wii about once a day, so that kind of tricky guess-and-test programming is real slow going for me.

Once that happens, though, we might be burdened with an overabundance of possibilities! The only thing I think are perfectly meant to be in his moveset is his Specials, jab (finger shot), Ftilt (hand cannon, or something similar), Fsmash (star gun), and Fair (forward rush with sweetspot). Everything else might be open to getting completely revamped... It's almost a disappointment.

 

[Eldiran]

Are you sure? It uses keyframes, after all, so it ought to tween it for you.

 

[IndigoFenix]

Are you sure? It uses keyframes, after all, so it ought to tween it for you.

Never tried it, that's just my guess.

 

[Shadic]

I dunno how it works, but either way, it shouldn't terribly hard to figure out a parabolic function to replicate how your UpB works.

As for me, I'm thinking of a slightly different UpB. It's amazing what being bored in class can do.

Edit: Hey Indigo, I'm pretty sure I just fixed the UpB glitch. You didn't clear LA-Bit[132] when you do a Special Land, or land during an Aerial. I'm gonna look into it.

Edit2: Totally got a different way of doing things. Fixed now! w00t. You had a buncha extra stuff in the move that didn't seem to be doing anything, and because in your first If statement you changed Geno's On Ground status, he was NEVER on the ground for the second Ground check.

Now that I got that outta the way, I'm gonna work on some original stuff... Maybe tomorrow. Should I put out a new set with Indigo's Specials?

 

[IndigoFenix]

I dunno how it works, but either way, it shouldn't terribly hard to figure out a parabolic function to replicate how your UpB works.

As for me, I'm thinking of a slightly different UpB. It's amazing what being bored in class can do.

Edit: Hey Indigo, I'm pretty sure I just fixed the UpB glitch. You didn't clear LA-Bit[132] when you do a Special Land, or land during an Aerial. I'm gonna look into it.

Edit2: Totally got a different way of doing things. Fixed now! w00t. You had a buncha extra stuff in the move that didn't seem to be doing anything, and because in your first If statement you changed Geno's On Ground status, he was NEVER on the ground for the second Ground check.

Now that I got that outta the way, I'm gonna work on some original stuff... Maybe tomorrow. Should I put out a new set with Indigo's Specials?

Changing the On Ground status was an attempt at making him lift off the ground if he used it on the ground, but I never got it to work totally the way I wanted. I wanted it to work exactly as it did in the air, with a slow rise that could be moved left and right... did you get it to work?

Oh, and good job figuring out the UpB glitch - that's probably the answer after all. Except that I think I did clear it when jumping or taking damage, so that just leaves... falling off the stage? Hmm...

And sure, by all means release the next version, I'd like to see what you've come up with!

 

[Shadic]

*stuff*

Yeah, I sorta just jumped up what you currently had in the function. I'd explain it, but...

*stuff*And sure, by all means release the next version, I'd like to see what you've come up with!

That works.

NEW SET OUT.

 

[Krobat]

Shadic, just dropping in to say that fighter geno is looking better than ever. I am loving your revised moveset so much that it's hard to give you feedback without gushing. Dash attack, u-smash, bair, dair, uair, and dtilt are especially cool. I notice he has kind of a Ness feel to him now on some of his aerials. Are there any plans to give him double jump cancel? Because I think that would be badass.

I will have to test your new set tomorrow. I am one version behind so excuse any inaccuracies in my description.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Does anyone here know of anyone who might have some videos of either Geno? I've only seen one of Cosmic Geno but it's about a month old and I'd like to stay up to date on how these guys have been changing.