items are off in melee not only for exploding capsules, but to allow both players, an equal 1v1 environment. based on who is better, depending on counter pick characters, ability to play the said character, or counterpick stages.
This has a tacit definition of "better" in it. You're just declaring by absolute fiat that "better" means having more skill without items on. It does not have to be so. Nobody made you the arbiter of "skill." What do you say to someone who thinks "skill" is being able to use your character AND items?
there is a giant random button that we press cause it eliminates the process of choosing one of the neutral stages that has been agreed upon by the community. items suck, for tournaments. i dont know about anyone else, but im not about to practice for a game, that is based on a 1v1 play style if there is any notion of items being introduced into the equation. its the inability to control the random occurrences of items throughout the match that make it pointless to even practice and play this game. one well placed item, that yes, can be caught, dodged, or shielded.. can possibly sway the whole outcome of the entire match, not due to skill, but do to an item that one person has and the other person doesnt.
You completely missed my point about randomness. We do not eliminate randomness at all costs. If I apply your logic to Melee then we'd have banned Peach for pulling stitches, beam swords, bob-ombs, and Mr. Saturns. You're acting like this randomness is as if Master Hand comes out once a minute and gives/takes a free stock from somebody. Surely since you hate randomness so much you admit Peach's stitches, etc. are a problem, as they are COMPLETELY random, and some matches you'll get none and some you'll get 2 or 3. So I ask you,
why don't we ban Peach? Answer carefully.
and edgeguarding.. i dont think we need to rely on items just because not alot of techniques have been figured out on how to edgeguard. the game has been out a little over a month (counting japan release date) and there are already some cool ways to edgeguard. i dont think we need to rush to items to solve this problem.
See this is precisely the mentality that I think people need to disavow themselves of. You're just trying to transfer over as much of the Melee ruleset as possible, saying "I'm leaving it as it was in Melee until I see evidence it works otherwise." How the hell can you even know if you refuse to test it? We should start with EVERYTHING on and ban as we go. We already clearly know some stages and items are stupid. There is no evidence, to my mind, that items need to be off entirely. The only arguments against it are pure theorycraft and conjecture. Six weeks of friendlies is nothing. I'm sure that you can edgeguard without items, but I think items make edgeguarding and other aspects of the game deeper.
I'm not advocating ITEMS FOR LIFE! I'm advocating testing it. What do we possibly have to lose by testing it out. Oh boo hoo a couple tourneys had some janky rules! I lost $5 because of it! We have little to lose by testing things out and everything to gain to make sure Brawl is as deep as possible. This is a new game. I don't get why people just want to eschew the testing phase that ALL NEW GAMES have to go through and go back to playing Melee-in-Brawl. I think you should take a look at how the SRK people view this situation. They don't really know that much about Smash, but they do know a lot about bringing new games into the community:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=151626
With items the metagame for each character will rise slower as people will have less incentive to figure out new stuff to handle with there characters flaws.
See but this is the same fallacious thing that Boback said. You're defining the metagame for a character to be 'without items.' But there's no reason why that is other than the fact that's how it was in Melee. This is not Melee.
I'm positive I wont have items this tournament. The auto-grab feature gets in the way of trying to perform what youre capable of doing. Also most of the items left were only worth throwing away. I feel we should push this game to its limit w/o items, so the hardcore Melee fans have 1 less thing to complain about (i.e. edge guarding).
This just sounds like "We aren't perfect with the mechanics, so we're going to take it out." You're not going to learn the mechanics of items overnight. Items "get in the way" because we're not used to the Brawl system, because BRAWL IS A NEW GAME. So personally I disregard any complaints about mechanics. If you're an aware player, you are aware where items are, and know what's going to happen when you come in contact with them. I think the new system allows you to be MORE NINJA with items.
Sometimes I really wish I wasn't so used to no items in Melee so that we would see things like this in tourney:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2ggN9xBvAI
These are the items I think should be on:
Food
Beam sword (still not sure on this one)
Fan
Lip's Stick
Star Rod
Super Scope
Fire Flower
Freezie
Hothead
Mr. Saturn
Green Shell
Banana Peel
Spring
Team Healer
Franklin Badge
