Problems with FLT grab

[KIngGerudo]

I seem to be having problems performing the FastLikeTree grab. I find myself jabbing instead of grabbing. Does anyone have any advice on how I could possibly make it easier to perform? i practice this whenever I play as Marth so I get about 1/4 of my matches to practice. For those who don't know what the FLT grab is here is the link. Tree-Grabbing Thank you for helping. =]

 

[flaco]

well tthere is a better grab try the jc grab well what botton do you use to perform that move my friend?also i think that the jc grab is better my friend

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

tree grab is like never useful. who would sit in their shield and let you run up from the other side of the stage to do this?

 

[flaco]

i could say a noob would let you do it lmao

 

[ArcNatural]

You can pivot grab using a JC grab anyway, which would definitely make you not jab. I remember someone told me that in order to grab out of a CC you just tilted the control stick forward a bit in the CC then just grabbed with Z, oh the many many times I dtilted instead of grabbed... Until my brother pointed out the obvious and said he just CC to a standing JC grab. JC grab for everything!

 

[ERK111]

You guys have no idea what you're talking about.

It's extremely useful.

You have to be from Texas to be able to do it. Edit*** Oh, and you have to understand the game to be able to do it. I forgot that one tidbit. That pretty much forfeits 90% of pros from being able to do it now. Oh **** I said it. Also if this game is all about spacing and tech chasing to you well then don't even worry about trying to learn this technique seeing you probably won't know where to implement it.

- Velox

 

[KIngGerudo]

well i used it today in some of my sets with my crew. I think its pretty useful but thats just me. i already jc my grabs but for some reason when i try to turn around, i jab. now its getting to the point where it happens less but its still there. and to ERK111, I just play the game when i pick marth, no set strats so having something that I can use when the occasion calls for it is very helpful.

 

[RT]

You guys have no idea what you're talking about.

It's extremely useful.

You have to be from Texas to be able to do it. Edit*** Oh, and you have to understand the game to be able to do it. I forgot that one tidbit. That pretty much forfeits 90% of pros from being able to do it now. Oh **** I said it. Also if this game is all about spacing and tech chasing to you well then don't even worry about trying to learn this technique seeing you probably won't know where to implement it.

- Velox

He speaks the truth. It is EXTREMELY useful, but I'll admit that I don't use it as much as I should.

 

[flaco]

it is but i think the jc grrab is better

 

[ArcNatural]

You guys have no idea what you're talking about.

It's extremely useful.

You have to be from Texas to be able to do it. Edit*** Oh, and you have to understand the game to be able to do it. I forgot that one tidbit. That pretty much forfeits 90% of pros from being able to do it now. Oh **** I said it. Also if this game is all about spacing and tech chasing to you well then don't even worry about trying to learn this technique seeing you probably won't know where to implement it.

- Velox

I was just pointing out he should be JC grabbing instead of trying to pivot with Z and end up jabbing. JC grabbing will at the least avoid the jab and make him do a JC grab in the right direction regardless if he actually pivots or not, unless he fails to even turn around. Mind explaining how grabbing with just Z or shield + A would be better than JC grabbing in this case (even if your FLT grab is 100%)?

I don't mind you being arrogant or repping your state, but I would like to see where what I thought would help him at least perform the FLT grab is wrong.

 

[Aesir]

You can pivot grab using a JC grab anyway,

Now thats just a turn around dash grab, which is a lot slower and less prettier. =(

which would definitely make you not jab. I remember someone told me that in order to grab out of a CC you just tilted the control stick forward a bit in the CC then just grabbed with Z, oh the many many times I dtilted instead of grabbed... Until my brother pointed out the obvious and said he just CC to a standing JC grab. JC grab for everything!

Again its about speed, FLT's way you don't lose frames like you do with JC grabbing.

JC grabbing is only useful when you don't want lag after your grab.

Pivoting allows you to grab out of the initial dash and is the same as a standing grab.

So why use jc grab? seriously its slower. =\

 

[ArcNatural]

You can still do a standing pivot grab with a JC without dashing, just like JC grabbing in place. I'm not exactly sure how many frames it takes to do a standing grab compared to a standing JC grab, but I don't think it can be more than a 4-8 frame differential. So I guess it could be a little bit slower, so I guess it would be a matter of would your rather risk a dashing JC grab if you mess up or a jab. Good point though.

 

[_SSnakeKen]

the JC grab is slower by 2 frames

 

[Aesir]

Those two frames can mean a lot >_>


arcnatural

Why would you do that though? it's slower you're just wasting frames.

basically you're saying you would jc a pivot grab. which is like standing still and JCing a grab.

Not exactly a smart idea. >_>

 

[ArcNatural]

Those two frames can mean a lot >_>


arcnatural

Why would you do that though? it's slower you're just wasting frames.

basically you're saying you would jc a pivot grab. which is like standing still and JCing a grab.

Not exactly a smart idea. >_>

2 frames isn't enough to make or break you IMO. The whole point of it is if you do JC grab instead of just pivoting the grab, you will in fact grab no matter what. A majority of the time a dashing JC grab in the right direction will still grab the person as if you did the pivot grab. So the whole point of it was if you would rather accidentally jab or to JC grab instead removing the chances of accidentally jabbing.

Not everyone can do everything at maximum speed, doing the JC grab for this is simply a safer method of ensuring you grab at least the right direction with a extremely small window of success for the pivot. Once you start pivoting with increased success, you can easily switch to just doing the standing grab. IMO though you wouldn't have to change it.

PS. IF you do the FLT pivot (just dash and flick to a standing animation) this doesn't apply as that pivot is extremely easy to grab out of. If your trying for the 1 frame pivot I think JC grabbing is safer if you mess it up at least 30% of the time.

 

[FrostByte]

You really don't need to pivot in order to tree grab. You can *walk* out of the crouch and turn around to grab.

 

[Aesir]

laziness for the win arc? lol


my point is, it's not that hard marths have it easy when it comes to pivoting.

 

[ERK111]

Arcnatural: I was just being annoying. Don't take it to heart. However, I did read your post, and why would you dash -> cc -> jc grab? Seems kind of unecessary to me, just dash -> jc grab.

 

[ArcNatural]

Arcnatural: I was just being annoying. Don't take it to heart. However, I did read your post, and why would you dash -> cc -> jc grab? Seems kind of unecessary to me, just dash -> jc grab.

My answer was to the poster who was having trouble because he jabbed rather than grabbed. JC grabbing removes any chance of jabbing does it not? It's a way to help eliminate his problem while he works on his pivoting skills. Like training wheels on a bicycle. I'm pretty sure dash -> JC grab is better if you plan on just JC grabbing. But if your trying to practice FLT grabbing with the dash -> cc -> dash forward -> quickly pivot -> grab and you can not do either of the pivots (1 frame pivot, FLT pivot) consistently but you still want to at least grab I think JC grabbing is the way to go. Once he pivots consistently he can remove the JC completely. My advice is simply for the poster himself, and anyone else who may have this problem.

 

[ERK111]

Oh, I see now. I still use JC grab for the technique. It makes me feel better.

I waited 3 hours till you responded just so I could post right after you. Heh, I'm j/k.

- Velox


Here's a good use of this technique (I'll take the others to the grave). Edgehoging. You will be flat out amazed at how fast you can grab the ledge with this technique. It's amazing. With Captain Falcon you might as well teleport to the edge even from close to the center of it, it's that fast. (dash -> FLT move -> wavedash back -> fast fall -> watch opponent faint)

 

[ArcNatural]

Oh, I see now. I still use JC grab for the technique. It makes me feel better.

I waited 3 hours till you responded just so I could post right after you. Heh, I'm j/k.

- Velox


Here's a good use of this technique (I'll take the others to the grave). Edgehoging. You will be flat out amazed at how fast you can grab the ledge with this technique. It's amazing. With Captain Falcon you might as well teleport to the edge even from close to the center of it, it's that fast. (dash -> FLT move -> wavedash back -> fast fall -> watch opponent faint)

Or you can just be M2k and wavedash -> edgehog and it has the same effect.

 

[Aesir]

or you could just walk off turn around and grab the ledge which is way faster and easy as hell to do LOL.

 

[ERK111]

It's not even close to as fast.

Me and G@BE put them both head to head, and I blew his doors off with the technique I previously mentioned.

I have a video of how fast it is when done perfectly. I guess I'll have to post it here tomorrow.

 

[Charlesz]

WOah wait i never heard of this grab b4,

so its dash and just grab? how do you do it ?

 

[ERK111]

dash

crouch cancel

dash forward again so you can go into your initial dash animation (which gives you the ability to now pivot)

pivot

grab (which will be a grab behind the direction you've been traveling all this time)


Do it all real fast, like crouch, then immediately go into another dash, then straight into your pivot.

Explanations don't get any better than that.

 

[Fade016]

Instead of CCing why not just foxtrot.

 

[St. Viers]

It is because foxtrotting has a set distance for each initial dash animation. Running normally, you can stop at any time after that first fixed dash animation. Again, the whole point of this is speed.

^^watch me be completely wrong about this lol

 

[ERK111]

You could fox trot, but instead of fox trot why not Tree Grab? Plus with lots of characters the dash is faster than the IDA.

 

[knightpraetor]

so i'm confused..how much faster is this than just CC to hold backwards to turn around and grab...i'm guessing the initial dash + pivot is to shave frames..but it seems like a lot of work..i tend to just do the first instead...that said i can pivot pretty well so if the speed boost is a lot i might try it..i'm just worried about accuracy

 

[undyinglight]

I seem to do fine with JC grabs, is the FLT grab even worth learining?