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Pretty in pink or true in blue, Krystal for Sm4sh!

IanTheGamer

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Relevance means little. Was Wii Fit Trainer relevant, no. Chibi-Robo can get in, ISAAC IS LITERALLY THE SECOND MOST POPULAR CHARACTER IN THE BALLOT. I don't particularly care about Paper Mario since Toad has a better shot in my mind.
Actually since Wii Fit U was released in 2013 she was. The problem with Chibi Robo is that there was only one game in the franchise and that came out 10 years ago. Sure Issac is popular but do we really need another swordsman?, honestly Issac Clarke would be more unique.Sakurai even said that relevancy was a factor in an interview once
 

POKEMANSPIKA

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Actually since Wii Fit U was released in 2013 she was. The problem with Chibi Robo is that there was only one game in the franchise and that came out 10 years ago. Sure Issac is popular but do we really need another swordsman?, honestly Issac Clarke would be more unique.Sakurai even said that relevancy was a factor in an interview once
WOAH WOAH GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE YOU MAKE ANY JUDGEMENTS! Chibi-Robo has 4 released games last one came out in 2013 (another one though is Japan only which sucks). ISAAC CAN F***ING USE EARTH MAGIC. HAS ANYONE HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO THAT IN SMASH! NO! He can also use plants, items from his game, other Psynergy (magic), like Jupiter (Air), Mars (Fire), and Mercury (Water). ISAAC WOULD BARELY USE HIS SWORD! Also his last name isn't Clarke. When did you hear that. Isaac Clarke is from Dead Space.
 
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ArcaneKitsune

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I just went back to look at the first page of our thread here for the Lolz and looking at it made realize how little of information we have in regards to why Krystal should get in as DLC. I mean most of the information we have on the 1st page of the thread is outdated and everyone pretty much knows about it. To be blunt the 1st page of this thread needs a major update because it looks really sad and weak. If we're going to convince people to vote Krystal as DLC for Sm4sh we're going to have to do better because what we have on 1st page of the thread isn't going to cut it in my opinion.
 
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POKEMANSPIKA

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I just went back to look at the first page of our thread here for the Lolz and looking at it made realize how little of information we have in regards to why Krystal should get in as DLC. I mean most of the information we have on the 1st page of the thread is outdated and everyone pretty much knows about it. To be blunt the 1st page of this thread needs a major update because it looks really sad and weak. If we're going to convince people to vote Krystal as DLC for Sm4sh we're going to have to do better because what we have on 1st page of the thread isn't going to cut it in my opinion.
OG owner died and new owner is hesitant to edit the OP. That's what someone told me.
 

Delzethin

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Actually since Wii Fit U was released in 2013 she was. The problem with Chibi Robo is that there was only one game in the franchise and that came out 10 years ago. Sure Issac is popular but do we really need another swordsman?, honestly Issac Clarke would be more unique.Sakurai even said that relevancy was a factor in an interview once
Careful, Ian. No need to sling mud on direct competitors. Isaac may wield a sword, but it's what else he can do that makes him stand out. As a user of environmental magic, he'd be another hybrid character when we have few of them, and his specialty is earth magic, something we flat out don't have on the roster so far.

More swordsmen can be okay if they're unique in some way. Isaac would certainly be unique. Now Roy, on the other hand...
 

iMACobra

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I want Isaac in Smash because I loved playing the Golden Sun games back when I was younger. Although, for King K. Rool, I never had the chance to play his games but with the DKC Trilogy and DK64 on the Wii U VC, I can now. Looking at the OP now, I do believe it does need a little bit of an update.

Most of the new characters added to Smash debuted in recent years therefore, they're more relevant, i.e. Shulk, Lucina, Robin, Wii Fit Trainer, Rosalina & Luma, Greninja, Dark Pit, and an alternate, Alph. Little Mac reappeared not too long ago in the Punch-Out! remake thus making him a non-retro character, same for Palutena with Uprising. The BJ alternates, Koopalings, have been appearing in recent Mario games. Relevance certainly is still a factor in choosing characters in Sakurai's mind.

If anything, Wii Fit Trainer would've been extremely unlikely as a Smash fighter because of no moveset potential but we now see what Sakurai did with that.
 
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ArcaneKitsune

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OG owner died and new owner is hesitant to edit the OP. That's what someone told me.
Yeah I know about that to, but I don't think adding to or updating the 1st page is going to provoke the OG owner's wrath from beyond the grave upon the poor soul who updates the 1st page of this thread. If anything the OG owner would appreciate the fact the we've added more to the thread he created to make it better.
 

Sage of Ice

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Would it be a reasonable compromise to start up a new Krystal thread? We could leave this one unlocked, un-deleted, and unchanged in OP's honor, but open a newer one with more up-to-date information and a thorough supporter list. Would that make sense and/or be allowed?
huh.png
 
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IanTheGamer

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jahkzheng

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Yeah I know about that to, but I don't think adding to or updating the 1st page is going to provoke the OG owner's wrath from beyond the grave upon the poor soul who updates the 1st page of this thread. If anything the OG owner would appreciate the fact the we've added more to the thread he created to make it better.
This is something to be discussed with IsmaR. He changed the title for us once we agreed on something. If we give it plenty of thought and know what we want, he may change the OP for us. It's got to be worth it though. I don't know what exactly is terribly necessary in the OP. Most people go to the latest page of a thread around here because they want to share in current discussion.

I've thought Krystal was a good idea for a very long time. Since 2010. I support.
I've been supporting her for a long while too. Pre-Brawl in fact. I just wasn't active here then. Nice to have you.
 
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Banjo-Kazooie

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Tbh I just keep coming back here and 3 other character threads mostly to see the fanart.
Something I gotta thank the furries for is that they have great drawing skills.
 
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Jason the Yoshi

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Just wanted to come in for a quick question.

Are most hopes in here that high for Krystal's confirmation as DLC soon? Because I'm actually going to E3 this year, and I didn't want to go unknowledged of your thoughts.
 

Delzethin

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Are most hopes in here that high for Krystal's confirmation as DLC soon? Because I'm actually going to E3 this year, and I didn't want to go unknowledged of your thoughts.
It seems unlikely, but not out of the question. If it did happen, there'd probably only be an announcement and not a full trailer, unless they put her together in record time.

It seems more likely we'll have to wait until at least next fall or winter.
 

Banjo-Kazooie

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Just wanted to come in for a quick question.

Are most hopes in here that high for Krystal's confirmation as DLC soon? Because I'm actually going to E3 this year, and I didn't want to go unknowledged of your thoughts.
If you mean what I think you mean. Well, you can say that she has higher chances of being confirmed at E3 than many other characters just for the fact that Starfox Wii U will be a big thing and they might want to cross promote it.
This makes Wolf an almost sure bet for E3 confirmation. Krystal is not so farfetched if she was planned before the ballot and if they want to reveal some kind of Starfox DLC package.

But I would put it on the more unlikely than likely position. 30/70. If you are going to E3, expect pajama boi Ryu.
 

jahkzheng

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Just wanted to come in for a quick question.

Are most hopes in here that high for Krystal's confirmation as DLC soon? Because I'm actually going to E3 this year, and I didn't want to go unknowledged of your thoughts.
What Delzethin said basically. I'm waiting for Star Fox Wii U details. I don't expect Krystal to be confirmed playable in Smash at E3, but I'd love if that happened. Something I'm anticipating will happen is that her part in Star Fox Wii U will be confirmed and we'll get an idea of how the characters will be represented. Will give us fuel for support to ramp up. I am expecting Wolf should get confirmed at E3 however. If Krystal got confirmed so soon too.... that would simply be amazingly awesome.
 
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iMACobra

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E3 is exactly two weeks from now!! Can't wait for Star Fox Wii U news and hopefully we can see Krystal in HD!! :3 I honestly don't believe Krystal will be revealed for Smash at E3 because Ryu being revealed at such a huge event would produce even bigger hype like Mega Man's E3 reveal 2 years ago. The least we can expect for Star Fox representation in Smash is Wolf's return. Hopefully Krystal is doing well in the Smash Ballot!
 

Guybrush20X6

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It's so tense because we have no idea how back to basics the new Star Fox game will be. Will it be as if Command never happened, will Krystal's backstory be rewritten so she was always a Star Fox or will she be jettisoned to go back to the precious 64 cast? (Which would spell bad things for Panther too)

I wonder if this is what it's like to be a fan of the Wally West Flash.
 

IanTheGamer

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It's so tense because we have no idea how back to basics the new Star Fox game will be. Will it be as if Command never happened, will Krystal's backstory be rewritten so she was always a Star Fox or will she be jettisoned to go back to the precious 64 cast? (Which would spell bad things for Panther too)

I wonder if this is what it's like to be a fan of the Wally West Flash.
But Nintendo has a tendency to keep characters in their series, (Bowser Jr, Dixie, Diddy, and Rosalina.
It could be possible that Krystal is teased for Smash at the end of Wolf's reveal, with Krystal saying "Fox, Leave it to me", as she gets into a fighting pose, with "KRYSTAL JOINS THE ASSAULT" seen on the screen as the trailer ends
 
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iMACobra

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But Nintendo has a tendency to keep characters in their series, (Bowser Jr, Dixie, Diddy, and Rosalina.
It could be possible that Krystal is teased for Smash at the end of Wolf's reveal, with Krystal saying "Fox, Leave it to me", as she gets into a fighting pose, with "KRYSTAL JOINS THE ASSAULT" seen on the screen as the trailer ends
Same can't be said for King K. Rool who hasn't been appearing in the Donkey Kong series as of late yet he is still one of the most popularly requested characters and most likely one of the highest in the Smash Ballot.

King K. Rool is still a part of the series, it's just that Nintendo doesn't seem to want to use him anymore.
 
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Delzethin

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King K. Rool is still apart of the series, it's just that Nintendo doesn't seem to want to use him anymore.
More that they wanted to give a couple new villains a shot. They're not the type to retcon characters out of existence--I mean, they brought back Pauline--and that helps our chances.
 
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IanTheGamer

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Same can't be said for King K. Rool who hasn't been appearing in the Donkey Kong series as of late yet he is still one of the most popularly requested characters and most likely one of the highest in the Smash Ballot.

King K. Rool is still a part of the series, it's just that Nintendo doesn't seem to want to use him anymore.
But the thing is 4 out of the 5 characters I mentioned are still in their series, and besides Krystal is quite popular, only Fox, Falco, and Wolf are more popular among the fanbase
 

iMACobra

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More that they wanted to give a couple new villains a shot. They're not the type to retcon characters out of existence--I mean, they brought back Pauline--and that helps our chances.
Or Retro wants to differentiate and distance themselves from Rare giving them their own identity and take on their remake of the DKC series.
 

IanTheGamer

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Or Retro wants to differentiate and distance themselves from Rare giving them their own identity and take on their remake of the DKC series.
That still doesn't mean Krystal will be retconned out, besides I'd rather have Amanda retconned anyhow. Unlike Krystal who actually plays an important role in the plots of two games (okay if you count Adventures, it's three), Amanda is the perfect example of a useless love interest
 
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iMACobra

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That still doesn't mean Krystal will be retconned out, besides I'd rather have Amanda retconned anyhow. Unlike Krystal who actually plays an important role in the plots of two games (okay if you count Adventures, it's three), Amanda is the perfect example of a useless love interest
I was replying to Delzethin. I have nothing against Krystal coming back to the series. I personally think she will come back because she debuted back in Adventures whereas Amanda debuted in Command. The developers said that if they made a new Star Fox games, Command would probably not be canon.

EDIT: For the record, I'm not against King K. Rool's inclusion in Smash. It's just that he's not as relevant as he used to be. It's been years since he's had a major appearance in a video game. I'd certainly welcome him into Smash but are they ever going to reuse him in the Donkey Kong series again? Only time will tell.
 
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POKEMANSPIKA

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I was replying to Delzethin. I have nothing against Krystal coming back to the series. I personally think she will come back because she debuted back in Adventures whereas Amanda debuted in Command. The developers said that if they made a new Star Fox games, Command would probably not be canon.

EDIT: For the record, I'm not against King K. Rool's inclusion in Smash. It's just that he's not as relevant as he used to be. It's been years since he's had a major appearance in a video game. I'd certainly welcome him into Smash but are they ever going to reuse him in the Donkey Kong series again? Only time will tell.
They will use K Rool again. He is DK's main villain just like Bowser is to Mario. He might not appear in a couple of games but he'll come back eventually.
 

Old School Tommy

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From DA:



I've seen people on YouTube mention if she got in smash, she should have a "dino stampede or something based on the Krazoa Spirits" as a final smash.

I don't like either idea. Has anyone here thought of anything different?
Or did y'all have something similar in mind?
 

Wolfheart07

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Just 2 more weeks til E3 and our wait for Starfox Wii U will finally be over. It will be unveiled to the world and we can bet that it's going to be one of their major titles they'll talk about at the event. I'm sure that Krystal will be back in the new game and with it, it will increase her chances to be DLC for Smash 4 from the ballot. Besides the Starfox series is going to be relevant and notable once again this year. After all, Nintendo is aware of the fanbase around her and they know it from both the Japanese and Western audiences.

 

jahkzheng

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That still doesn't mean Krystal will be retconned out, besides I'd rather have Amanda retconned anyhow. Unlike Krystal who actually plays an important role in the plots of two games (okay if you count Adventures, it's three), Amanda is the perfect example of a useless love interest
Bit of a double standard there. Yeah, logically it would be easier to remove Amanda since she's a relatively minor character that appeared in one game and has very little actual development. But to describe her the way you did and make that the reason for removal? Well, lots of Krystal haters say the same and I don't feel their opinion justifies a retcon.

Of course, Krystal is more established and developed, but there's still a lot of work that could be done to improve her character. I think many of us like her not only for what she is in a basic sense, but also for what we see she can be yet. She's shown that she's more interesting below the surface... at least that's the common feeling of those that like her character. Still, I think we can all admit that there's still a lot of room for Krystal to grow.

People that don't like Krystal's character will tend to box her in with a character like Amanda because they see more similarities than differences. Some have a stronger "perception of depth" than others or are more willing to let their mind trick them into seeing it. Basically, I think some see little in Krystal's character while others see relatively a lot. Those of us who see a lot partly acquire this perception as a gift for immersing ourselves in the Star Fox games and noticing value, potential, and character nuances that aren't obvious... but also this perception is even possible due to being open to a game or a character to begin with. Likewise, those that don't see much in Krystal's character probably gave up at some point because there was too much they already didn't like about her or didn't see in her. They weren't invested in trying to see her value or potential and thus missed it. The new Star Fox and possibly Smash gives Krystal another chance with those that were too impatient to hunt for reasons why Krystal is interesting or likable.

Amanda has all the opportunity of Krystal to develop in a deeper way, but has a lot more work to do. Depending on your perception of depth, the distance each character is from being just being one-dimensional can be either similar or very different. As Amanda is now, she doesn't seem to have much going for her. She has potential like any character, but it's hard to see, even for someone who actively looks for character value and depth. I wouldn't miss her honestly, but I'm not ready to toss her character aside after only one shot to prove herself. Personally, I think Star Fox would be better served by focusing on it's established characters more rather than stretching itself too thin on side character development. It's a slippery slop however, because some would agree with me but then count Krystal among those that should be kept to the side in favor of the original team.
 
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IanTheGamer

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Bit of a double standard there. Yeah, logically it would be easier to remove Amanda since she's a relatively minor character that appeared in one game and has very little actual development. But to describe her the way you did and make that the reason for removal? Well, lots of Krystal haters say the same and I don't feel their opinion justifies a retcon.

Of course, Krystal is more established and developed, but there's there still a lot of work that could be done to improve her character. I think many of us like her not only for what she is in a basic sense, but also for what we see she can be yet. She's shown that she's more interesting below the surface... at least that's the common feeling of those that like her character. Still, I think we can all admit that there's still a lot of room for Krystal to grow.

People that don't like Krystal's character will tend to box her in with a character like Amanda because they see more similarities than differences. Some have a stronger "perception of depth" than others or are more willing to let their mind trick them into seeing it. Basically, I think some see little in Krystal's character while others see relatively a lot. Those of us who see a lot partly acquire this perception as a gift for immersing ourselves in the Star Fox games and noticing value, potential, and character nuances that aren't obvious... but also this perception is even possible due to being open to a game or a character to begin with. Likewise, those that don't see much in Krystal's character probably gave up at some point because there was too much they already didn't like about her or didn't see in her. They weren't invested in trying to see her value or potential and thus missed it. The new Star Fox and possibly Smash gives Krystal another chance with those that were too impatient to hunt for reasons why Krystal is interesting or likable.

Amanda has all the opportunity of Krystal to develop in a deeper way, but has a lot more work to do. Depending on your perception of depth, the distance each character is from being just being one-dimensional can be either similar or very different. As Amanda is now, she doesn't seem to have much going for her. She has potential like any character, but it's hard to see, even for someone who actively looks for character value and depth. I wouldn't miss her honestly, but I'm not ready to toss her character aside after only one shot to prove herself. Personally, I think Star Fox would be better served by focusing on it's established characters more rather than stretching itself too thin on side character development. It's a slippery slop however, because some would agree with me but then count Krystal among those that should be kept to the side in favor of the original team.
Point taken, what would your reaction be if Retro, Platinum, and EAD all collaborated on SF Wii U
 
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jahkzheng

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Point taken, what would your reaction be if Retro, Platinum, and EAD all collaborated on SF Wii U
Hmmm, I don't know. I guess it would be promising since getting so many dev teams together would imply they're making a really big game with lots of features. Kind of going all in on Star Fox, which is awesome. But I don't know where their efforts are really going or how it'll translate to a full game. A bunch of well known dev teams doesn't necessarily equal a successful or quality game. Sometimes Nintendo thinks they know exactly what we want, and they're wrong. I think about Other M and how they hyped it. It's clear they put work in and pushed Metroid into realms it hadn't explored before. Still, it felt like a lot of effort pushed in the wrong direction. Likewise, they could bring all those teams together to make "Star Fox 64 2", which wouldn't feel like the proper direction for Star Fox right now. I think the ideal direction would be to use Assault as a basis and then to make the game much deeper like I've described on this thread a few times now, so I won't go into it.

Essentially, having all those dev teams wouldn't promise an ideal game. Still, I think the odds that we'd get something of high quality with lots of content should be good in that scenario.

I'm pretty sure that's kind of a lot of developers for one game. Retro is in America so it be harder to communicate and they are either doing DKCR3 or Metroid. Platinum and EAD are working on Star Fox U though.
They are? I mean, I assumed EAD was because of Miyamoto, but I don't remember anything but rumors regarding Platinum's involvement. I think that notion was attached to that "Horizons" hoax. Perhaps I'm remembering wrong however.
 
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iMACobra

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Platinum and EAD are working on Star Fox U though.
Only EAD is working on Star Fox Wii U. Platinum working on Star Fox comes from that fake leaked website for the fake Starfox Horizons. They are currently working on Scalebound for Xbox One.
 
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TheDarkKnightNoivern

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Only EAD is working on Star Fox Wii U. Platinum working on Star Fox comes from that fake leaked website for the fake Starfox Horizons. They are currently working on Scalebound for Xbox One.
They could still do it though, I remember Miyamoto saying they might get a second developer on board

Plus they already have the engine for the arwing-esque section in Bayo 2 built
 
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