IanTheGamer
Smash Champion
Assault and and Command never happened
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Pretty in pink or true in blue, Krystal for Sm4sh!
- Thread starter IsmaR
- Start date
Jason the Yoshi
Watching Me, Wanting Me
I highly doubt that such would devastate Krystal in any way. She would still be of importance and stuff like that.
IanTheGamer
Smash Champion
I know, but it would retcon Panther,
Jason the Yoshi
Watching Me, Wanting Me
IanTheGamer
Smash Champion
Duh, it would also mean that Peppy would still be a member of the team
Wolfheart07
Smash Journeyman
True. After all she did play big roles in those 2 games after all even though Command had multiple endings. I can see Command being retconned because of its endings. Those created a what if scenario there. But like CliffJumper said there, it kills the purpose of her being in the SF series after all and the same goes for Panther. Besides, they are there to stay. Why get rid of them now?
IanTheGamer
Smash Champion
True
jahkzheng
Smash Lord
Recently was rediscovering Star Fox and remembered how much I liked this character and how much I wanted her in Brawl. I definitely knew Brawl needed another Star Fox character and it was either Krystal or Wolf for me, and I actually leaned more toward Krystal. Instead we got Wolf and I had a little inkling of disappointment knowing she missed out. I ended up making Wolf a solid second though.
Now we're onto Smash 4. Before this game came out, I knew Krystal was the obvious newcomer if Star Fox was to get another rep. I had my doubts though, and with time I'd become less idealistic than I was back in the pre-Brawl days. But then Wolf was cut, which hurt I have to say because it's like we took one step forward and one step back.
Since the Mewtwo DLC announcement though, I've been hopeful for more new characters... but I have to admit that it's in my head that Wolf has much greater priority to be included. In fact, I'd say he's the next most likely character to get DLC after Mewtwo. He's certainly topping the request charts of almost every poll I've looked at. He's a vet after all, and people want back what they had. The whole, "it's harder to miss something you never had", I guess holds true often times. And I really liked using him in Brawl. But one step forward, one step back, and one step forward is still a better spot than we were without Wolf, imo. Who knows though, maybe Mewtwo really is the one and only DLC character we'll get. In which case... that's pretty much super disappointing. Huge missed opportunity. The realist in me says we'll at least get a couple DLC characters after Mewtwo, but more than three seems to be expecting too much. I've started to think unrealistically of late, however, heh.
News about the new Star Fox on Wii U coming out this year got me back into the series. It was also through news, though, that I heard the rumor that the series might reboot without Krystal. This notion reminded me how much I value her and how much I'd miss her in the series. I felt even more strongly about this after I started replaying my old Star Fox games. Playing my old Star Fox games didn't just reinforce this feeling though, but also reinforced the idea that it would be pretty stupid to ditch her like that. I started to feel that there is little chance she wont be in the new Star Fox as long as the rest of the team is there too. And remembering how much I like Krystal inevitably reminded me of how much I wanted her in Brawl. Before I knew it, I was thinking about Krystal DLC as a legitimate thing. I started having this grand idea of Wolf and Krystal being DLC characters together and releasing with the new Star Fox. The idea seemed just too perfect.... maybe too too perfect, heh.
And of course I started remembering my old moveset ideas and such. Like many, many other people who have thought of Krystal as a Smash character, I imagine the staff to be the thing that really sets her apart and away from cloniness. I also feel though that she should at least be halfway a physical fighter like Fox and not rely on the staff for all her moves as the animations would get boring. I could go in great detail about ideas, but this post is plenty long enough already and it's not like I'll be the first to have my variation on similar moveset ideas said here. And it's not like I'm modding her into Brawl with an original moveset or something - (although I think that would be an awesome project if I had the chops). In the end, if Krystal gets into smash legitimately, it'll all be out of our hands... and frankly, I think we'd all just be happy she got in at all. Whatever moveset she gets, she gets. We can just hope it's original but familiar to her established character and it's hard to believe the staff won't at least be part of that.
Anyways, yeah... this is my long story way of saying I'm in total support, once again, of Krystal in Smash. I know the odds are pretty long and there's so many other deserving characters out there too waiting, and Sakurai can't accept them all. Her odds could be worse though. We have DLC confirmed as a thing so we'll see. It's all in how you look at it. Glass half empty, or glass half full. Either way, my support for her is Krystal clear! ...yeah, heh, I had to do that~
Now we're onto Smash 4. Before this game came out, I knew Krystal was the obvious newcomer if Star Fox was to get another rep. I had my doubts though, and with time I'd become less idealistic than I was back in the pre-Brawl days. But then Wolf was cut, which hurt I have to say because it's like we took one step forward and one step back.
Since the Mewtwo DLC announcement though, I've been hopeful for more new characters... but I have to admit that it's in my head that Wolf has much greater priority to be included. In fact, I'd say he's the next most likely character to get DLC after Mewtwo. He's certainly topping the request charts of almost every poll I've looked at. He's a vet after all, and people want back what they had. The whole, "it's harder to miss something you never had", I guess holds true often times. And I really liked using him in Brawl. But one step forward, one step back, and one step forward is still a better spot than we were without Wolf, imo. Who knows though, maybe Mewtwo really is the one and only DLC character we'll get. In which case... that's pretty much super disappointing. Huge missed opportunity. The realist in me says we'll at least get a couple DLC characters after Mewtwo, but more than three seems to be expecting too much. I've started to think unrealistically of late, however, heh.
News about the new Star Fox on Wii U coming out this year got me back into the series. It was also through news, though, that I heard the rumor that the series might reboot without Krystal. This notion reminded me how much I value her and how much I'd miss her in the series. I felt even more strongly about this after I started replaying my old Star Fox games. Playing my old Star Fox games didn't just reinforce this feeling though, but also reinforced the idea that it would be pretty stupid to ditch her like that. I started to feel that there is little chance she wont be in the new Star Fox as long as the rest of the team is there too. And remembering how much I like Krystal inevitably reminded me of how much I wanted her in Brawl. Before I knew it, I was thinking about Krystal DLC as a legitimate thing. I started having this grand idea of Wolf and Krystal being DLC characters together and releasing with the new Star Fox. The idea seemed just too perfect.... maybe too too perfect, heh.
And of course I started remembering my old moveset ideas and such. Like many, many other people who have thought of Krystal as a Smash character, I imagine the staff to be the thing that really sets her apart and away from cloniness. I also feel though that she should at least be halfway a physical fighter like Fox and not rely on the staff for all her moves as the animations would get boring. I could go in great detail about ideas, but this post is plenty long enough already and it's not like I'll be the first to have my variation on similar moveset ideas said here. And it's not like I'm modding her into Brawl with an original moveset or something - (although I think that would be an awesome project if I had the chops). In the end, if Krystal gets into smash legitimately, it'll all be out of our hands... and frankly, I think we'd all just be happy she got in at all. Whatever moveset she gets, she gets. We can just hope it's original but familiar to her established character and it's hard to believe the staff won't at least be part of that.
Anyways, yeah... this is my long story way of saying I'm in total support, once again, of Krystal in Smash. I know the odds are pretty long and there's so many other deserving characters out there too waiting, and Sakurai can't accept them all. Her odds could be worse though. We have DLC confirmed as a thing so we'll see. It's all in how you look at it. Glass half empty, or glass half full. Either way, my support for her is Krystal clear! ...yeah, heh, I had to do that~
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IanTheGamer
Smash Champion
A good chunk of Nintendo's fanbase whines and complains too much, they are impossible to please. Even though Star Fox Adventures was a good game, they complained that "It didn't feel like Star Fox", When Nintendo released SF64: 3D, the fans complained and told them to stop relying on old ideas. Nintendo needs to stop trying to please everyone, because they aren't ever going to be able to. If I was in charge of Nintendo, and I saw the complaints for any of the games, even of they are polished,I will say this " Shut Up, you are going to play the game that we worked on for years, spent millions of dollars, and hours of manpower, and YOU ARE GONNA LIKE IT!!!"
Jason the Yoshi
Watching Me, Wanting Me
Yeah, people who keep on propagating wishes that will never come true are always a thorn on every speculators side. That's basically the people who
10. Want Bandana Dee or Ridley to be playable
9. Expect Nintendo to buy Rare back from Microsoft
8. Want Smash to add in more than one character from the same third party franchise
7. Michael Pachter
6. Expect Nintendo to go third party
5. Expect Nintendo to buy the Sonic franchise from Sega
4. Want Geno in smash in any way, shape, or form
3. GamesRadar
2. The majority of the people on Miiverse during Smash speculation
And 1. People who find this list amusing.
TheDarkKnightNoivern
Smash Master
I'm gonna have to disagree with that 10th one
IanTheGamer
Smash Champion
No.5 is somewhat realistic though, and don't forget the idiots that want Wreck-It-Ralph (despite his movie being based on video games, he didn't originate in an ACTUAL video game, he's ineligible), Mickey Mouse (similar reason as Wreck-It-Ralph, Sora is impossible because of this), Goku (never originated in a video game!!), Shrek (FOR THE 9,000th F***ING TIME, ANY CHARACTER THAT DIDN'T ORIGINATE IN A GAME IS INELIGIBLE!!), Walugi (irrelevant character that never was in a Mario game that was actually important, and not side games like Mario Kart_Mario Sports, or Mario Party, at least Rosalina has appeared in two main Mario games), Master Chief (never appeared on a Nintendo console), Kratos (same as Master Chief), Nathan Drake, (ARE THEY THAT HARD HEADED??!!!, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THAT, ANY CHARACTER THAT HAS NEVER APPEARED ON A NINTENDO CONSOLE IS INELIGIBLE), Any Rareware character (Microsoft owns the original IPs of Rare, the closest things to Rareware characters, you will ever get are Diddy Kong, Dixie Kong (possible), and Krystal (possible)
Jason the Yoshi
Watching Me, Wanting Me
How is #5 realistic? I may be a huge Sonic fan, but I don't think you can purchase a company's mascot franchise without buying out the company itself, I just don't think you can. I'm not saying you can't, I don't think you can.
What part? Ridley or Bandana Dee?
For Ridley, Sakurai said himself that he thought downsizing Ridley was going a bit too far.
Bandana Dee on the other hand, I personally think he's Assist Trophy material. Not because I dunno much about Kirby, but because I don't think Sakurai could've made a good moveset for him. I just don't think he can. I'm not saying he can't, I don't think he can.
Now, to get back on topic, I've been wondering what final smash would be better for Krystal.
Releasing a Krazoa spirit, or riding on a pteranodon and shooting explosive blasts like Snake's Grenade Launcher?
IanTheGamer
Smash Champion
None of these are bad ideas, my ideas include Krazoa Possession, which involves all six Krazoa Spirits flying into Krystal, healing her completely and for 10 seconds, increases her damage output exponentially
Jason the Yoshi
Watching Me, Wanting Me
That sounds cool, but at the same time it looks like I better find some time to complete my playthrough of StarFox Adventures.
The last thing I remember is setting the spell stone you get from wherever Tricky's dad was imprisoned, then I came back out into the snow. Having no idea what to do, I went on a hiatus.
IanTheGamer
Smash Champion
I see
TheDarkKnightNoivern
Smash Master
Ridley can be playable, sizing him down isn't the problem and wanting the main villain of metroid playable in a nintendo fighting game isn't unrealistic, especially since we have Bowser and Ganondorf (Who is like twice the size of link canonically) playable. But I guess we can't fight Sakurai's view as long as he's the director so I guess I'll give you that one, however...
Bandana dee has all the makings of a playable character, he has a weapon which can translate easily into smash, he's recognizable as he's a waddle dee, probably the most well known kirby enemy (Don't bring up smash run, let's not forget R.O.B) He debuted in Super Star and there's a pretty clear bias towards that game in smash and he's important in the games he's in, being playable in RTDL and Rainbow curse even when Dedede and meta knight were to nowhere to be seen
Bandana dee is essentially the Captain Toad of Kirby except he can actually jump so there's no excuse
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IanTheGamer
Smash Champion
jahkzheng
Smash Lord
Characters like Captain Falcon, Fox, and now Duck Hunt prove that he can make something out of mostly nothing. Not a huge supporter of Bandana Dee myself though, not because I don't think he can be made into a usable character but because he's relatively minor when compared to the majority of other requested characters. Characters like Dixie, Ridley, Impa, and Krystal have had a bigger presence in more games from their respective series, even if they're rarely if ever actually playable... with the exception of Dixie. Also, Metroid and Donkey Kong have the excuse of being only repped by two characters and arguably deserve as many characters as Kirby. For now, Star Fox also fits this bill and feels incomplete with just two characters. Three may be enough, but I hope for four reps eventually before Kirby gets four necessarily. The three Kirby characters all have a long lasting enduring presence and there's not a fourth character that amounts to the charisma of the other three. Falco and Wolf on the other hand are maybe only slightly more relevant in their series than Krystal. A significant part of why their mentioned first as Smash characters is because they have been in Smash before and doesn't really have too much to do with their roles in Star Fox.
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TheDarkKnightNoivern
Smash Master
Although Kirby is bigger than metroid and has been more consistent with releases than DK, plus DK is kind of an extension of Mario. I feel Kirby is definitely deserving of 4 reps especially since Mario and Pokemon have 6 original characters
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Delzethin
Character Concept Creator
Careful, everyone. It isn't a matter of "character slots" or how many characters a franchise "deserves". The bigger factors are what a character can offer to Smash with their aesthetics and moveset and playstyle.
Fortunately, Krystal checks off every one of those. Now all we need is her to be relevant again and she has a legitimate chance.
Fortunately, Krystal checks off every one of those. Now all we need is her to be relevant again and she has a legitimate chance.
jahkzheng
Smash Lord
I'm just not sure what the fourth rep for Kirby should be. Like I said, there's quite the gap in familiarity and charisma between Kirby, Dedede, and MK and whoever else there is. I guess the consensus is that Bandana Dee is the most likely candidate. Admittedly I have only played one Kirby game where Bandana Dee was playable and I hardly remember the character. Perhaps that's my own fault for not getting attached or seeing how great and memorable the character is.
Just as my own opinion on it though, I feel it makes more sense for a series like Donkey Kong to get a third before Kirby gets a fourth. Donkey Kong is pretty far away from being a Mario offshoot at this point. Yoshi at least inhabits the same universe, but playing any Donkey Kong game in the last 20 years proves it's in it's very own universe. I understand the feeling that Mario has more than enough reps at this point and if you see DK as an offshoot of Mario still, then I could see the feeling that there's enough there.
And Metroid is it's own issue altogether. Most people want Ridley and I'd be lying if I said I didn't want him too... but he just seems not workable atm according to Sakurai, although I feel it could be done. Metroid's very popular though, but other than Ridley there isn't too much to work with. Certainly not any characters in the series that deserve to join the roster before Kirby got a fourth rep. I'm more comfortable with Kirby getting a 4th before Metroid gets a 3rd as a result... as much as I'd love Ridley to actually be a thing.
All this said, I wouldn't be too surprised if Bandana Dee got on the roster as DLC or in the next iteration before other potential newcomers like Dixie, Ridley, Impa, or Krystal... I'd just be a bit disappointed since I'd rather have any of those other four characters first if I had to choose one extra DLC newcomer... and I don't necessarily really really want Impa or Dixie, I just think they deserve to be in first.
The trouble is there are limitations to roster size and what people should expect even, and there are a ton of characters with potential out there. It's fairly subjective too. Fact of the matter, some characters will get in and others wont regardless of how great or terrible any one person or group of people think they could be. And Sakurai has proved he's always full of surprises. I remain reasonably optimistic about the characters I'd like to see but I'm also aware there's people out there with a whole different list of desires. You can't make everyone happy, and it could be that all the things I want wont happen.. or maybe I get everything I want but someone else is unhappy. It's sadly inevitable that someone wont get what they wont.
Best case scenario in this game, how many DLC characters could be added? What number of DLC characters do you actually expect? I think most will realize that unfortunately but reasonably, there will only be so much added to this game and character slots are prime but limited real estate.
Now, if we're talking about Smash 5, that's a whole different story I'd say. Who knows about any of that. History has taught us that we can expect newcomers in greater quantities than cuts. But also we have to realize that at some point this series may want to cap it's roster size. And this is assuming the series continues beyond this point. I sure hope it does and I fully expect it will. Feels like Smash 4 is the first big step toward something really really good. The team did a pretty great job with balance this go around and I feel next game can focus less on the moves and just keep what works, and work more on the fluff we all love so that the content is even deeper.
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TheDarkKnightNoivern
Smash Master
I definitely agree DK deserves a third rep or Zelda a sixth first but Kirby also deserves a fourth, Plus it's not like we have a limit on how many characters we can add, more can always come along later down the road
Also about Metroid, as much as I want ridley, as long as sakurai is director that is never happening. The only other option I see could be someone like Sylux if they were to appear in the next metroid game. He was hinted at in prime 3 wasn't he? It's possible
jahkzheng
Smash Lord
It makes sense that Kirby would get a fourth with all those other series getting extra reps. The series is quite popular after all. I just don't know of a good fourth myself is all. People say Bandana Dee, so I'll just go with it. There's obviously something people like about the character and I'd like the people that want him to be happy.
Sylux wasn't memorable to me and was in one game and cameo'd in another. Maybe whatever new Metroid there is will develop him though. The issue with Metroid is that Ridley is by far the most popular character in the series after Samus and is kind of her arch nemesis. Getting someone like Sylux but not Ridley would be like having Link and Zelda representing their series but instead of Ganondorf, getting a Wizrobe. Most would be happy that Metroid got any other rep, but there would still be a lot of people upset that Ridley missed out. He's in this weird place between playable and not playable in the minds of the community. You don't get issues like this with Andross because people just know he's not feasible. Ridley is nearly as feasible as Bowser, but then maybe not. It's a tough issue. I've seen enough to think he could work, but I highly doubt that risk will ever be taken.
To be honest, I don't even know the character of Bandana Dee, but I can say that he probably has more of a reason to be added than Sylux does... at least as the game stands now. But maybe Sylux will get some nice development in the next Metroid and become more deserving.
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IanTheGamer
Smash Champion
Honestly as far as I am concerned Fire Emblem will NOT have 4 reps in Smash 5, and Kid Icarus will lose a rep or two, Sakurai said it himself, he has no plans on doing Kid Icarus again, essentially Kid Icarus has no future
Captain Hazama
Smash Ace
I hope not. I can understand clones to a certain extent, but it will be pretty saddening if they canned Robin and Palutena. Cause if he wants to can characters, why not Duck Hunt Trio? Yes the dog, duck, (zapper gun person) are old retro characters, but has no future as well. But that's just my opinion.
Jason the Yoshi
Watching Me, Wanting Me
I'll say this once more: I'm not saying they can't, I just don't think they can.
On Topic: I once saw this Krystal moveset from an old FaceBook Fanpage that had a blaster as a neutral B move. I'm like "What?! That ain't her staff? Do these guys even know what it can do?" Just thought it was laughable, that's all.
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jahkzheng
Smash Lord
I could see some significant turn over with Fire Emblem but I doubt they'll have less than three. That series is going places.
And I wouldn't write off Kid Icarus either. Sakurai says a lot of things. He's said he wont do another Smash a couple times. And even if he didn't do another Kid Icarus, it's hard to believe that Nintendo wouldn't pick up where he left the series.. which is with a lot of potential. He even eluded to more potential story points for the game in Smash. I could see it being taken down to just two characters, but I wouldn't be surprised if it even got an extra rep by next Smash. We'll just have to see.
There's a moveset for Krystal posted early in this thread, may even be OP, that includes her using Assault stuff including a blaster. The trick is though, that this person made it so that down B is a stance change for Krystal so she can either play with her staff or a blaster. It's a pretty busy moveset and an idea that I doubt will ever be used for her if she ever makes it into Smash. I think I like the idea still, but I think it's not something I'd be expecting for her if she got in.
I'm more inclined to believe she'll have some staff moves mixed in with physical attacks. Most if not all her specials I could see being staff moves and probably most of her aerials would incorporate it. I could see her smashes using it but more as a vaulting instrument in some case. Perhaps a forward smash where she sticks it in the ground in front of her for one hitbox and then swings her body forward for a kick with both legs. One hitbox would stun into the other more significant one like Link's and give her the option to abandon the smash after the first part. That's just a for instance.
Another fun thought I've had with her moveset and the staff is giving her a nair pretty similar to Fox's with kick out that holds her leg out. The fun difference though would be that at the same time she kicks, she grabs the top of the staff that's stuck to her back and brings it down over her shoulder. This makes the bottom end of the staff pop up and out behind her. Essentially, she'd create a "---|_" shape with the dashes being the staff the and underscore being her leg. This would give her hit boxes high and behind her and low and in front of her. Alternatively, this staff trick could just be the bair maybe.
Point is she could have the staff but not every move has to "staff=hitbox". She's an athletic type and I don't see her leaning too heavily on the staff... in a manner of speaking.
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Wolfheart07
Smash Journeyman
Well I'll tell you this on what Sakurai has done for the series. Smash 4 has its highs and downs and some of those downs are some of the most tragic flaws that the game has to offer and it concerns about the roster(most important). When Sakurai removed for instance Wolf from the roster, it hit me really hard because not only did I really enjoy using him from Brawl, but like Fox and Krystal, he is also my favorite Starfox character in general. Because of that for now, I personally cannot forgive Sakurai for removing him from there. If he wants to redeem himself from that, then I'm hoping that he becomes DLC after Mewtwo(which I doubt that Mewtwo will be the only DLC character and with the impending release of Starfox Wii U this year, this increases the chances and hopefully Krystal to join as the newcomer and if not for Smash 4 then Smash 5 in the future). Because for veterans, he is the most likely and highly requested character they want to see come back. Not to mention that he is as of now the "Mewtwo" of Smash 4 and the roster needs more villains. And please don't give me that of the palette swap for Fox to have his color appearance to look like Wolf because that is not going to cut it. This is just Sakurai being really desperate. The guy is pretty much running out of ideas and I think now is the time for him to step down from the series and hand it over to someone else who knows not only the source material and the gameplay mechanics of the Smash series, but one who would really listen to the American and Japanese audience on what they want. Because Sakurai for Smash 4 really lost his touch. Anyway, I'm sure that there are people out there who would like to take a crack at doing a new Smash game besides Sakurai.
I'm just concerned that if he becomes heavily/directly involved on the next game, I fear that he may destroy the Smash series even further. As of now, he's basically the M. Night Shymalan of video games(which he will either have good and bad moments) and this is no exception. As for your response of Krystal(with the rumor of her being written out of the series just because of the SF64 remake on the 3DS of it rebooting the series), I really doubt that she will be written off the series for good for that. I mean why reboot the series again when SF 64 was the reboot of the SNES Starfox from the N64 era? This is just basically people being paranoid about it of her getting removed and also just because she didn't appear in the codecs for the Orbital Gate Assault stage in Smash 4. That doesn't mean anything at all so people out there needs to relax on this. Don't get me wrong, Krystal is my favorite female character from the SF series after all and has had a prominent role in the series. If Miyamoto and everyone else at Nintendo wanted to remove Krystal from the series, they would have done that a long time ago after Adventures and we wouldn't have seen her in future entries from the series like Assault and Command and she wouldn't have appeared as a trophy in both Brawl and Smash 4 along with her being in the codecs for both of those games. But they haven't and she has been in those games ever since and not to mention that she is the only female SF character from the series who has had a lot more screen time than any other female SF character in there and has appeared in the same number of games as Wolf. So that goes to show you that she is not only popular, but she has a big fanbase around her. Miyamoto and everyone at Nintendo are aware of the fanbase for Krystal that she is a popular character there and they know it. In fact, even as of now from Japan, the Japanese are liking her a lot more with not just wanting her to be the most requested female character to be playable(even for DLC for Smash 4) since Brawl, but because of the new Starfox Wii U game coming out later this year(which I believe that she will be back in the game). I have even seen Japanese fanart for Krystal online and also on the Pixiv website(basically a Japanese Deviantart). Besides, she has already established herself in the series and she is there to stay. Also, because of the new game coming up, it's more likely that for Smash 5 in the next-gen console, we'll most likely get a Starfox newcomer since it will be a few years after SF Wii U came out and Krystal will be the most likely choice there(that is if she doesn't make it in the DLC for Smash 4) with Starfox being relevant once again.
So my conclusion there is that I don't think that she will be removed from the series at all. That would be like killing off Peach from the Mario series or Zelda from the Zelda series for no reason. With the fanbase she has, she is there to stay especially since Nintendo officially owns this character and this is the same scenario with the DK series because of King K. Rool and Dixie Kong. Anyway, since the new SF Wii U is coming out this year and considering the fact that the game is going to be compatible with the Amiibos(as Miyamoto has confirmed), I have a feeling that Nintendo is going to go with the route like what they are doing to Mario Party 10(because of the Super Mario Amiibo lineup) and have a Starfox Amiibo lineup and the same thing goes for the new Zelda game coming up later this year since it will also be compatible with the Amiibos. It could also be the reason why the Smash Fox Amiibo has been rare to find in stores. I'm beginning to think that Nintendo planned this in advance since there is a new Starfox game coming out and they are most likely doing a SF Amiibo lineup because of it like how it's happening with the SM Amiibo lineup(because of Mario Party 10) . From the Starfox Amiibo lineup, here's what I would like to see since it will most likely be the main cast from the series:
-Fox McCloud(same uniform as he has in Brawl and Smash 4 since it's the most current one he has now but in a different pose different from his Smash version)
-Falco Lombardi(same as Fox here)
-Krystal(would love for an Amiibo for her)
-Peppy Hare
-Slippy Toad
-Wolf O'Donnell(use his uniform from Brawl for the new game)
What do you guys think?
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jahkzheng
Smash Lord
It's easy enough to see what you're not happy with of course. For all the short comings, there's tons that Sakurai did for this game that works. I like that they emphasized balance for the game and as much as people complain about this thing or that, in general this game is more balanced than any other iteration with the possible exception of Smash 64. That was the emphasis of this game moreso than it was in Brawl. I have faith that another Smash can borrow what Smash 4 has done right and add more content around it. I think the work put into customs was pretty significant too. Yes, they could've been made more unique but they also could've not been in this game at all. I think this is another thing that has had its foundation put into place and has lots of room to improve in the future... but having it there at all gives the game more potential options in the future.
I will admit that, in general, I was happier with Brawl's roster when it was revealed than the roster of Smash 4 when it was revealed. I do love many of the newcomers though and I'm not saying I'd rather have Brawl's roster than Smash 4's necessarily. I liked and appreciated the newcomers that came with Brawl better though. And the cuts were deeper and the adoption back into clone characters was a bit of a step backwards imo. Melee had clones to fluff out the roster and I liked how Brawl made these characters more unique. I'd have rather that process continue than introduce more clones. But maybe Smash 4 with be like Melee in terms of roster and content and Smash 5, if it does come, will be like Brawl in that it'll declone and focus on more content. The major difference I hope is that between Smash 4 and 5 they don't mess too much with the physics of the game since it feels like a nice balance right now that doesn't need much work really.
And about cuts like Wolf and Lucas and others people really feel and think were unjust... I can't say what the thought process was or why it was done. A part of me feels that a cut character like this has already had their fate decided, and that thought really is disappointing. I don't hate or distrust Sakurai or the dev team for it... I'm just disappointed and confused why. Not going to lie, trying to represent Wolf and Lucas in customs felt like a way to avoid them in the future, even as DLC. Then there's another much more optimistic part of me that says, "maybe Wolf's not in the game because he's planned DLC to coincide with Star Fox Wii U". If the plan all along was to get mileage out Smash's DLC and cutting Wolf to bring him back later was the strategy along with bringing in other characters with other releases... then that's awesome although a little odd. Not to mention if this is the strategy, it certainly had us wondering with a mix pessimism and optimism about about what this game really could be. DLC now being a thing gives us the rare opportunity to not have a final verdict on a Smash game even after it's release. Whether or not we get anything other than Mewtwo, the fact that DLC now has precedent in the series opens up doors for the series in the future. And frankly, at this point I'd be surprised if all we get is Mewtwo. What or who it is we get additionally, I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
...
Oh, and I really like your optimism about Krystal in Smash Wii U. I really really hope you're right. Just playing Assault recently reminded me how much it did right. I want to see something as involved and even moreso for the Wii U. I don't want a reversion to Star Fox 64 where the characters are only really seen in little portraits in the corner and the game and content practically ends after a short campaign. I want to see the classic rail shooter we all love, but then also a vastly improved, more detailed, and engaging on-foot section. I want the ability to play as any character at any time as an unlock after the main campaign. An option to forgo the dual screen controls and play single screen local co-op with the gamepad would be amazing. Online co-op campaign would be just as awesome if not moreso of course. I want online capabilities but I don't necessarily need large open worlds with multiple players. But I'd at least like to have a more robust Assault-like multiplayer that also uses the improvements to on-foot play. And then just content fluff beyond that. You know, ironically, Kid Icarus Uprising is a similar game that shows a nice amount of content fluff with it's trophies and customizations and difficulty levels. Obviously, the greater processing power of the Wii U will be capable of much more stuff than a game like KI:U or Assault could. One thing from Assault that always kind of annoyed me was that the voice work always seemed really muffled. Not sure why, but some nice clear voice acting in this game and plenty of dialogue for all kinds of situations would be the kind of depth and quality I'd really appreciate.
Okay, okay... I'm done dreaming about all of what Star Fox Wii U could be. Truth is I don't expect this much depth. Miyamoto is more about basic but enjoyable gameplay in his designs with not as much fluff. Sakurai is all about tons of extra content even outside the game. We'll see how the game is handled in the end.
I really like that amiibo idea as well. Hadn't thought of that.
Phew, these textwalls~
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IanTheGamer
Smash Champion
Well Miyamoto worries way too much about the gameplay, he's holding Star Fox back from reaching it's true potential, Star Fox will never be a major IP as long as Miyamoto is developing it, what he doesn't understand is that good story can enhance good gameplay, I do believe that gameplay should come first, but story should have some importance, but unfortunately with SFWii U, I think the plot will be simple, Andross attacks Lylat, Stop Him,
It's a shame when a fan game has a better story than an official game,
Event Horizon has two intertwined stories, it explains Krystal's origins, while a war for Lylat is happening
Oh and that Amiibo idea sounds awesome, Wolfheart, I wish you could unlock Krystal based on the Amiibo
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jahkzheng
Smash Lord
That's fairly true. It's an approach that works for games like Mario, but Star Fox has characters that demand development. Ever since the first Star Fox it's been a game that makes an emphasis on getting to know and like the characters. Not many other 64 games based around Nintendo property could boost the voice acting of Star Fox 64. It's proof that they want to and it was right to go in that direction. Whereas Link will likely always be silent and actual dialogue may not be a thing in a Zelda game, it's important to the Star Fox series that care is taken of the characters, character development, and a proper story to have them interact within, in particular.
My hope is that Miyamoto is the face of the game right now, but is more in a supervisory role with other people deftly handling the finer details while he focuses on his forte of gameplay. Makes sense to me. Still don't expect tons of depth, but at least more than what is typical of a Miyamoto game.
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Luigifan18
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...Aw, now you've made me sad about HudsonSoft and Bomberman again.
Eh, I'm more partial to the idea of summoning a horde of Saurians to stampede across the stage, with CloudRunners being in the mix to mess up people who try to dodge it by staying airborne. As for the Krazoa Spirit thing, I kinda like the idea of Krystal channeling the Krazoa spirit through herself.
I'm pretty sure that's what Andross was using her for in Star Fox Adventures, anyways.
jahkzheng
Smash Lord
Alright, I know this is a silly feeling/opinion that's a bit contradictory, so don't crucify me, heh....
I'm not a huge fan of the Krazoa Spirit Final Smash. It only references one game and it doesn't seem like something Krystal would actually use to cause destruction. I know, I know... "what about the staff?". Don't ask me to explain, but the staff being used is perfectly acceptable to me. Maybe because in my mind it's no different from Fox or Falco's blaster, just with more utility. Also because it's definitely something I could see her using since she did. One thing she never did was use Krazoa spirits to cause destruction. She was just trying to save that world and it doesn't seem in her character to go all Andross on us.
Sadly, I don't have a better idea though. I have ideas about all sorts of things regarding Krystal's moveset, but the Final Smash is just something I don't know. It would be so much easier to think of something original if at least Falco didn't use a Landmaster too. Would be weird to give her the Arwing and not him. I'd rather her Final Smash be the clone and not Falco's. But they aren't going to change that any time soon. If Krystal is going to get into this game and get a unique Final Smash that doesn't necessarily borrow from Adventures too heavy... I guess it would relate to the game in development now.
Speaking of that, so much depends on this Star Fox Wii U game. I really really hope it includes a improved on-foot gameplay. If it does, we might see characters do things we've never seen them do before. Inspiration for a moveset we've not imagined may come from that game. Hard to say. I got to hope that someone or some group on the dev team is laboring away on details and content since Miyamoto is probably stuck on gameplay innovation. I fear if this game was in Miyamoto's hands alone it would play like a really innovativly controlled fighter sim with very little else interesting about it. Assault gave us a proper game from which to jump off from. It had 64's rail shooting and it was good through maybe slightly less exciting but I'd say that's mostly subjective. It had Adventure's on-foot part, kind of, and it wasn't as good as Adventure's. It felt a bit vacant and unremarkable in that part. I think if they improve the on-foot stuff significantly with lots of attention to detail, we're talking about a really engaging game. Treat the on-foot part like it is it's own game so that it can stand on it's own. I'm worried instead they might just avoid it entirely, which would be a step backward. The Wii U has the hardware to really make a game that takes everything 64, Assault, and Adventures did right, and make it even more beautiful, and refined, and full of content and detail. I want to see something glorious. Something that I'll enjoy playing for the pure fun and action of it, but just as much, I'll enjoy playing just to see it and explore it. The rail shooting being mostly the actiony part and the on-foot part being the more explorative and interactive thing.
Can't wait for more news on this game. I'm really close to positive Krystal will make a return, and if they put some nice emphasis on improved on-foot gameplay throughout the game, we may get a chance to see what all the unique individuals of the Star Fox team can do on foot. I'm already imagining unique abilities and attributes to each team member. Some may be better for some missions than others and so on. If this happens, it'll be a huge influence on future iterations of Smash most likely and may even influence DLC for this iteration of Smash.
Uh oh, I textwalled again, didn't I.
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Luigifan18
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Thing is, the idea I have doesn't involve Krystal directly attacking with the Krazoa Spirit, instead empowering herself. It's the Final Smash I picked out for her in the moveset I designed, so check it out if you're interested.
...Speaking of movesets, where the heck is the OP? Isn't it their job to compile the movesets and stuff submitted to the thread?
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jahkzheng
Smash Lord
Just read/skimmed through it since you linked me. I like the details. Not sure where you got those numbers for speed and jump height and such and what they really mean. Moves seem good for the most part in terms of how they look and stuff, at least as I'm picturing what you say. The power is a bit ridiculous though and there's a lot of gimmicky stuff. I understand it's a moveset that's trying to be unique, but there's something to be said about the fundamentals of what makes a good moveset. And of course, this is just a fun speculative exercise and it's not like we're making the character ourselves. If this was a real plan to make a moveset though, I'd keep the design ideas and just make her moves and staleness do normal damage and knockback relative to the rest of the cast and see if there'd be room to innovate from there.
One last gripe though... you kind of made her obnoxious. Her taunts and some of her moves are suggestive and she literally had sexist victory poses, lol. She has a hard enough time with people demeaning her in their own head canons. No need too fully embrace that ridiculousness. I wish for so much more for her character than to be known like that. I imagine she's kind of sassy and fun loving but she keeps it understated. I personally think of her Assault taunts and phrases for taunts. Like the "Here I go." and "You're not ready yet!" Always loved how she said "That's for me!" when she got in a vehicle too, heh.
I may do my own moveset thing eventually, but I have this grand notion that I'll draw the whole thing out. I'm capable with a pencil but it's been a while since I've done anything significant. I feel if I'm motivated enough I could do something that would be legitimately fun to look at even if not everyone liked my move choices.
...
About the OP handling movesets. Not sure how seriously that's taken. Just so happens that a couple movesets were mentioned early in the threads life. Since then I'm sure many, many movesets have been mentioned but they just sit where they sit on the thread. And that's fine I think. You could ask IsmaR about this though, since I'm just speculating. Also, the original OP that made this thread is no longer with us so management may have changed since the beginning too.
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Luigifan18
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I was wondering when someone would ask what the attributes meant. Basically, they're the raw numbers displayed in the charts for Smash Wiki's character attribute pages (like walking, dashing, et cetera). In the game code, they define a character's basic capabilities. For instance, Fox's dashing speed in Smash 4 is 2.184, so I intentionally made Krystal's dashing speed a little lower than that (but higher than 2.1, the dashing speed of the next-fastest character. In case you're wondering, that would be Greninja.) I haven't filled in all of the attributes because Smash Wiki doesn't have data for all of them, and I'm trying to deliberately pick numbers with a deliberate sense of balance relative to the rest of the cast. In Krystal's case, her speed is just a touch below Fox's in most respects (I actually gave her slightly better walking and air speed), and her jumping abilities are a bit better than Fox's but nowhere near Falco's. (Jump force alone doesn't define jump height; falling speed and falling speed acceleration (a.k.a. gravity) also play a role (specifically working against the jump force... I think...), and because I don't know the precise details of the relationship, I'm not really sure what the jump force should be.)
Also, when I came up with Krystal's lines, "sassy" is what I was going for; I was trying to convey her personality from Assault, with a little influence from Command. Krystal is a character with a lot of sex appeal (the scene where Fox sees her in person for the very first time in Star Fox Adventures comes to mind), and I wanted to have that reflected in her moveset and lines, but I didn't want to go overboard; I just wanted her to be a little flirty. At the same time, her lines are intended to present her as a strong and capable person not defined by her gender, who openly challenges traditional gender roles; the "too much time in the kitchen" line criticizes traditional passive femininity, while the "You men think you're so tough!", "Don't understimate me because I'm a woman!", and "I'm more than just a pretty face" lines are meant to make the point that a woman can be just as capable of fighting as a man. ("Don't sneak up on a lady" and "Did I rough you up too badly?" have no such excuse - those lines are just intended to be humorous trash talk.) If there are other things she could say that would make the same points while coming across as less sexist, while still sounding snarky enough to be something that Krystal would believably say, I'm open to changing her lines.
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TheDarkKnightNoivern
Smash Master
No offence or anything but I hate the lines, the idea of Krystal becoming more of a sex symbol than she already is, is just terrible and the way you made her constantly talk about her gender makes her come off as obnoxious and like there's nothing else to her besides her gender. Where's the kindness yet stubborness assault claimed to have (I really can't remember much of assault)
I feel more fitting lines would be things like "All right, that's enough boys!" or "it's not over, yet" both quotes from Assault. I'm fine with giving Krystal a little sass but that's a little much
Here's the assault script btw http://starfox.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Fox:_Assault/Script
Also here's my idea for taunts
1) Krystal spins her staff before stabbing it into the ground then striking this pose saying "All right, that's enough"
2) Krystal will place her right hand on her hip and brush her hair back with her left saying "It's not over, yet"
3) Krystal will stretch her arms behind her back and say "Is that all you've got?"
and victory animations
1) Krystal will fly in on the dinosaur from the beginning of adventures and say "Thanks for helping me. I can take it from here" (Quote from Adventures) before jumping off and waving to it as it flies away
2) Krystal will slam her staff into the ground while standing next to tricky, she'll then kneel down and pet him
3) Krystal will throw her staff into the air and catch it before saying "I didn't hurt you too badly, did I?" in a sassy tone while also showing her caring side
Also, her intro should be the dinosaur from the beginning of Adventures too
You know what, I feel like making my own moveset, why not
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Luigifan18
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...Is the moveset I designed really that sexual? I don't recall giving her a pole dance taunt or anything... did I? I designed the moveset in 2006 or 2007 (it was originally for Brawl), so I might not have considered certain... implications.
I like the ideas you came up with; I think I'll try replacing some of mine. Also, as I already said, when Krystal brings up her gender in the lines I wrote, she's basically making the point that it's irrelevant to her fighting ability (except "don't sneak up on a lady", that's inexcusable).
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TheDarkKnightNoivern
Smash Master
I don't know, it seems like you tried to make her seem like a very sassy, feminine character yet still having power kinda bayonetta-esque but it just came off as obnoxious more than anything. Like, we get it, you're a girl. You just overdid it a litte