Pretty in pink or true in blue, Krystal for Sm4sh!

[IanTheGamer]

But if we threw out all of Command, even the "default" ending, would that not make us just as bad as the genwunners who want to retcon everything after SF64 because it doesn't fit what they want the series to be?

Good point, I can't tell you how much I hate Genwunners, they are the ones who complain the most, Gamefaqs is full of Genwunners,
But back to what I was saying, We should have some elements from Command,
But, not Krystal joining Star Wolf, or Fox kicking her off the team,
I mean that was not Krystal, she'd never do that out of spite, I mean sure she was angry at Fox, but aligning herself with Star Wolf, criminals who are Fox's worst enemies, just seems OOC, as for Fox kicking her off, Fox should know that Krystal is more than capable on her own, and if he did kick her off, he should have told her why, or Krystal could have used her telepathy to figure out why, he lost both his parents because of Venom for crying out loud
Another element that will be retconned is Amanda, I'm sorry, but Krystal already fills the love interest role, and Amanda is useless, at least Krystal is capable of fighting on foot , Slippy doesn't need a love interest, next thing you know, Falco will get one or Wolf will get one, Amanda is not important like Krystal is, no more love interests other than Krystal

 

[Old School Tommy]

Edited in another video link up there. Just had to find it.

Krystal saying "here I go" is kind of a fun responsive taunt to a Fox saying "here I come!" or "come on!"

Since you guys are on the topic of taunts, she also sez "Try me." as well.

 

[jahkzheng]

Since you guys are on the topic of taunts, she also sez "Try me." as well.

She does, but I decided to ignore that one since the very same voice actress says the very same line in Smash 4 already, heh. I figure something original could fill her third taunt space. If she has "here I go" and "you're not ready yet", maybe the third could be just a laugh. I like her laugh. Or maybe one of the other two could be a victory screen and we'd have room for two original taunts. I like to try my best to pull ideas from existing character canon however. I know there's other lines she says throughout the series that could sub as taunt lines. Assault's multiplayer seems like the obvious place to look first, and that's why I did.

 

[Wolfheart07]

Good point, I can't tell you how much I hate Genwunners, they are the ones who complain the most, Gamefaqs is full of Genwunners,
But back to what I was saying, We should have some elements from Command,
But, not Krystal joining Star Wolf, or Fox kicking her off the team,
I mean that was not Krystal, she'd never do that out of spite, I mean sure she was angry at Fox, but aligning herself with Star Wolf, criminals who are Fox's worst enemies, just seems OOC, as for Fox kicking her off, Fox should know that Krystal is more than capable on her own, and if he did kick her off, he should have told her why, or Krystal could have used her telepathy to figure out why, he lost both his parents because of Venom for crying out loud
Another element that will be retconned is Amanda, I'm sorry, but Krystal already fills the love interest role, and Amanda is useless, at least Krystal is capable of fighting on foot , Slippy doesn't need a love interest, next thing you know, Falco will get one or Wolf will get one, Amanda is not important like Krystal is, no more love interests other than Krystal

I agree. What Krystal did there in Command early on, that's not how I would envision her even though the game in general is basically a "What If?" scenario especially with her aligning with the Star Wolf team. Besides, Krystal should always be with Fox. Not only do I have a good feeling that she'll be back in the new SF Wii U game, but also that she will still be part of the team. BTW, I never heard of that term Genwunner? Could somebody fill me in what it is? Curious to know.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Finally got that Krystal icon in my signature. If anyone else wants it, just knock on N3ON's door.

 

[jahkzheng]

I agree. What Krystal did there in Command early on, that's not how I would envision her even though the game in general is basically a "What If?" scenario especially with her aligning with the Star Wolf team. Besides, Krystal should always be with Fox. Not only do I have a good feeling that she'll be back in the new SF Wii U game, but also that she will still be part of the team. BTW, I never heard of that term Genwunner? Could somebody fill me in what it is? Curious to know.

It's exactly what it sounds like when you read it. That's the point of the spelling at least... to mashup a common term, "Gen One-r", into a semi derogatory word to describe people that only like the first generation of anything. Ironically, with Star Fox, most that would be labeled as such are actually "gentooers". The idea in this case though is just to say that they only like or "believe in" the early Star Fox games. Ian is basically describing those people who don't like Adventures, Assault, and Command when he says "genwunners" in this case. Although Command gets a special place for being bad to just about all Star Fox fans.

Similarly, I could use the word to describe any group that liked Metroid up until the Primes, thinking Super Metroid was the last good one.... but a group like that simply doesn't really exist in any notable numbers because most people agree that the Primes were awesome.

The term "genwunner" I most often see used to describe those that played the first generation Pokemon games and know and care about nothing else.

 

[IanTheGamer]

Do you guys agree with me about Amanda being a useless character that deserves to be removed?

 

[jahkzheng]

Do you guys agree with me about Amanda being a useless character that deserves to be removed?

I am indifferent. I wasn't really a fan of the character in Command, but Command is just one game. Could just be a bad first impression.

I'm not too quick to pass out judgement on these things though. Plenty of Adventures haters would say the same of Krystal. Granted, there's many more people who liked that game than liked Command. I think most of the Adventures hate comes from the "but this isn't how Star Fox is supposed to be!" sentiment, which is fairly silly since the game holds up pretty good when you play it without preconceived notions. Command doesn't hold up so great even when you give it the same treatment.

Of course, much of this is subjective in the end and I bet there's a small minority out there that actually liked Command best of the series. It's easily my least favorite however, and that's a pretty popular opinion. I find the whole game story and stuff introduced in it fairly disposable, but I'm not actively hoping it gets disposed of.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

I am indifferent. I wasn't really a fan of the character in Command, but Command is just one game. Could just be a bad first impression.

I'm not too quick to pass out judgement on these things though. Plenty of Adventures haters would say the same of Krystal. Granted, there's many more people who liked that game than liked Command. I think most of the Adventures hate comes from the "but this isn't how Star Fox is supposed to be!" sentiment, which is fairly silly since the game holds up pretty good when you play it without preconceived notions. Command doesn't hold up so great even when you give it the same treatment.

Of course, much of this is subjective in the end and I bet there's a small minority out there that actually liked Command best of the series. It's easily my least favorite however, and that's a pretty popular opinion. I find the whole game story and stuff introduced in it fairly disposable, but I'm not actively hoping it gets disposed of.

My least favorite part about Command is the lack of voice acting.

 

[jahkzheng]

My least favorite part about Command is the lack of voice acting.

Hardware limitations I guess. It went the way of the original Star Fox on SNES.

...

Btw, I keep seeing a link to this survey on different parts of the board and even outside it... and I can't remember if I've actually seen it here in this thread yet...

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/17deELX3QVDofXksu8roKCl_kyREFSThygPSoEVT2eNs/viewform

Linking it all the same. Don't forget to vote Krystal when you get to the "DLC questions" section!

 

[IanTheGamer]

I see, but I believe some of Command could be associated into the new game, such as Fox and Krystal having a falling out and getting back together (but she doesn't join Star Wolf), or Dash Bowman picking up where Andross left off.
I think that Krystal and Katt should be the only love interests in the series. I believe that the 64ers and SNESers, should stop complaining, if they don't like a Star Fox game, don't buy it, or if you do, shut up and play it. I know that Adventures wasn't supposed to be a Star Fox game but that's what it became, the game was pretty good itself, but because some idiot 64ers moaned "That Fox wasn't in the Arwing for 95% of the time", and they assumed it was bad because of that, Adventures was actually a pretty good Zelda clone. It's a shame SF A doesn't get the proper recognition it deserves as one of the better GameCube titles, because of idiots like 90% of the GameFAQs fourms or Jontron. If Krystal debuted in SF64, she wouldn't be hated as much as she is.

 

[IsmaR]

Oh, and I made a new post for this because I thought it was important enough to warrant it.

To everyone that keeps making separate/intentional double posts because you "thought it was worth it," be it for the purpose of notification/being at the top of a new page/because your post was already cluttered, it's still breaking the double posting rule.

Under the circumstances, merging posts/giving no more than a verbal warning this one time. Shouldn't be a problem to begin with, given the "Edit" button exists.

Anyway on the current topic, I was actually one of the few that liked Command. But even I think they shouldn't use any of its continuity/canon. Not to say I would mind if they decided to try and patch-up the story, but for all intents and purposes, leaving it as a bunch of "What-If" scenarios seems like it would end up being less of a hassle to deal with/accept.

If Krystal debuted in SF64, she wouldn't be hated as much as she is.

Arguably, if Dinosaur Planet remained a 64 title and/or if Rare never got bought by MS, the character would probably have radically different reception today. But spending forever lamenting what could have been doesn't really accomplish much now.

People are free to dislike any character/game for any number of reasons. Irksome as some of their reasoning may be, doesn't mean we can't still enjoy them.

 

[jahkzheng]

To everyone that keeps making separate/intentional double posts because you "thought it was worth it," be it for the purpose of notification/being at the top of a new page/because your post was already cluttered, it's still breaking the double posting rule.

Under the circumstances, merging posts/giving no more than a verbal warning this one time. Shouldn't be a problem to begin with, given the "Edit" button exists.

Anyway on the current topic, I was actually one of the few that liked Command. But even I think they shouldn't use any of its continuity/canon. Not to say I would mind if they decided to try and patch-up the story, but for all intents and purposes, leaving it as a bunch of "What-If" scenarios seems like it would end up being less of a hassle to deal with/accept.



Arguably, if Dinosaur Planet remained a 64 title and/or if Rare never got bought by MS, the character would probably have radically different reception today. But spending forever lamenting what could have been doesn't really accomplish much now.

People are free to dislike any character/game for any number of reasons. Irksome as some of their reasoning may be, doesn't mean we can't still enjoy them.

Sorry about that. Wasn't aware this was a recurring problem or that it's strictly enforced. I usually do edit my posts instead 99% of the time. You caught me in my one weak moment I guess. I do hope the regulars of this board, and thread in particular, did check that link out though.

 

[IanTheGamer]

Keep hoping for the best, but because we are being told so little about the new Star Fox, I have a bad feeling about it

 

[CannonStreak]

I know I said this before, but I just want to spread the word.

Well, the Mewtwo DLC is pretty much done, and more details will be released soon. So, with that, I'd like to say this: we should to get as many people as you can that you know to download the Mewtwo DLC, since that may convince Sakurai to make more DLC. He said something about making more DLC if Mewtwo is successful. If that convinces him, maybe he'll make Krystal DLC.

 

[IanTheGamer]

I know I said this before, but I just want to spread the word.

Well, the Mewtwo DLC is pretty much done, and more details will be released soon. So, with that, I'd like to say this: we should to get as many people as you can that you know to download the Mewtwo DLC, since that may convince Sakurai to make more DLC. He said something about making more DLC if Mewtwo is successful. If that convinces him, maybe he'll make Krystal DLC.

Great idea

 

[Wolfheart07]

I know I said this before, but I just want to spread the word.

Well, the Mewtwo DLC is pretty much done, and more details will be released soon. So, with that, I'd like to say this: we should to get as many people as you can that you know to download the Mewtwo DLC, since that may convince Sakurai to make more DLC. He said something about making more DLC if Mewtwo is successful. If that convinces him, maybe he'll make Krystal DLC.

Agreed. But I have a feeling that the Mewtwo DLC will be well received which could give us some more DLC characters. After all, this is the first Smash game to incorporate DLC and as I said before, I don't think that Mewtwo is going to be the only DLC character we are getting and I'm sure that we'll get more. I wonder what the Mewtwo Amiibo will look like.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

I know I said this before, but I just want to spread the word.

Well, the Mewtwo DLC is pretty much done, and more details will be released soon. So, with that, I'd like to say this: we should to get as many people as you can that you know to download the Mewtwo DLC, since that may convince Sakurai to make more DLC. He said something about making more DLC if Mewtwo is successful. If that convinces him, maybe he'll make Krystal DLC.

Depending on whether or not Miyamoto legitimately confirms 2015 as the Year of StarFox, I'm convinced there could be a possibility that they add both Wolf and Krystal as a double play with the new StarFox game, but I could be just flat out wrong.

 

[IanTheGamer]

Agreed. But I have a feeling that the Mewtwo DLC will be well received which could give us some more DLC characters. After all, this is the first Smash game to incorporate DLC and as I said before, I don't think that Mewtwo is going to be the only DLC character we are getting and I'm sure that we'll get more. I wonder what the Mewtwo Amiibo will look like.

I don't think Mewtwo is the only DLC, Sakurai has gone back on his word, hundreds of times before, and the "Withholding Content" excuse is BS, wouldn't Mewtwo DLC, technically be withholding content?

 

[Delzethin]

Depending on whether or not Miyamoto legitimately confirms 2015 as the Year of StarFox, I'm convinced there could be a possibility that they add both Wolf and Krystal as a double play with the new StarFox game, but I could be just flat out wrong.

Star Fox is one of the few series I could see getting two DLC characters if we end up getting extensive enough DLC, mainly because it has two prominent characters who missed the cut, one who was in the previous game and the other who has high demand and even higher moveset potential.

I don't think Mewtwo is the only DLC, Sakurai has gone back on his word, hundreds of times before, and the "Withholding Content" excuse is BS, wouldn't Mewtwo DLC, technically be withholding content?

If they didn't start working on Mewtwo until post-production, then no, it wouldn't be. I wouldn't call Sakurai's fear "BS" so much as "on the irrational side", but I can understand why he might think that way.

That said, though, I wouldn't be surprised if Mewtwo was also a way for them to test their strategy for DLC production so that any future stuff would be easier to make...

 

[IanTheGamer]

Star Fox is one of the few series I could see getting two DLC characters if we end up getting extensive enough DLC, mainly because it has two prominent characters who missed the cut, one who was in the previous game and the other who has high demand and even higher moveset potential.


If they didn't start working on Mewtwo until post-production, then no, it wouldn't be. I wouldn't call Sakurai's fear "BS" so much as "on the irrational side", but I can understand why he might think that way.

That said, though, I wouldn't be surprised if Mewtwo was also a way for them to test their strategy for DLC production so that any future stuff would be easier to make...

Yeah, DLC would also extend the life of the game dramatically, for instance if a new game comes out next year, and introduces a fan favorite, he could be added into S!Smash, it would also take less work for Sakurai, than developing a completely new game

 

[TheRandomCities4]

That said, though, I wouldn't be surprised if Mewtwo was also a way for them to test their strategy for DLC production so that any future stuff would be easier to make...

*blows off the dust on my Smashboards account*

That seems to be the feeling I got from Sakurai when he said that Mewtwo was going to be a sort-of experiment (or something like that) to see how their "newer content distribution" could work out. It does sound a bit like DLC testing to me...

I was paraphrasing a bit there, so I was going off of memory. Don't quote me on that. xD

It's been a while since I've done Smash research... My Smash 4 development knowledge feels a little rusty. On the bright side, I've managed to come to terms with Smash - which is good (you know, the inevitable upsides and downsides). I don't want to go into too much detail for the silly things I've done in the past here...

...

And here's an interesting video Etika made regarding the status of Takamaru and his consideration in the roster of Smash 4:

The reason why this is interesting is because Etika points out a massive contradiction in the logic from Sakurai towards NOT including Takamaru: Familiarity.

Etika pointed out that Marth and Roy were Japanese only characters at the time Melee was released. Look at where those two characters are now, in terms of popularity in the West, thanks to their Smash Brothers inclusions. It did good for them, did it not?

It ALSO did good for Ness. Smash 64, anyone? No? Anyways... Etika didn't mention Ness - but he'd only strengthen that argument. Lucas, by extension, would too.

Of course there are other characters who fit under this argument too, but you get the point.

I just couldn't help but think at how this MAY (stressing the possibility here) affect Krystal. I know, I know; no one here would want to believe that Krystal could possibly be considered "too unfamiliar of a character for Smash for the general population". My point here is: who even KNOWS how Krystal is considered by Sakurai and those other developers in the East? They never let us on with how she squares up in the situation of Smash. No one here knows that. Ergo, we can't even be sure of something that may seem like it wouldn't apply to her. :/

And I suppose that's my main beef with Smash development. We don't get much insight on character selection for the roster, so we're led to make due with what we have (I mean you can just SEE the flame wars regarding the whole "OH GUIZ DAT CHARACTER TAKES A SLOT AWAY FROM THE CHARACTER I WANT!!!1!1!). And, on top of all that (which we don't know if those things are even accurate measures for character selections in the first place), we're left with lots of seemingly-contradictory tidbits (like the one seen here with Takamaru) by Sakurai and the others in post-development. All-in-all, it can leave us with a bitter aftertaste.

It's not difficult to see why I'm not quite as excited about DLC in Smash as some other people. I mean it can certainly do good for the series, and it would most definitely extend the life of the game itself. Those are good things. But there's always that unknown factor, you know?

 

[IanTheGamer]

*blows off the dust on my Smashboards account*

That seems to be the feeling I got from Sakurai when he said that Mewtwo was going to be a sort-of experiment (or something like that) to see how their "newer content distribution" could work out. It does sound a bit like DLC testing to me...

I was paraphrasing a bit there, so I was going off of memory. Don't quote me on that. xD

It's been a while since I've done Smash research... My Smash 4 development knowledge feels a little rusty. On the bright side, I've managed to come to terms with Smash - which is good (you know, the inevitable upsides and downsides). I don't want to go into too much detail for the silly things I've done in the past here...

...

And here's an interesting video Etika made regarding the status of Takamaru and his consideration in the roster of Smash 4:

The reason why this is interesting is because Etika points out a massive contradiction in the logic from Sakurai towards NOT including Takamaru: Familiarity.

Etika pointed out that Marth and Roy were Japanese only characters at the time Melee was released. Look at where those two characters are now, in terms of popularity in the West, thanks to their Smash Brothers inclusions. It did good for them, did it not?

It ALSO did good for Ness. Smash 64, anyone? No? Anyways... Etika didn't mention Ness - but he'd only strengthen that argument. Lucas, by extension, would too.

Of course there are other characters who fit under this argument too, but you get the point.

I just couldn't help but think at how this MAY (stressing the possibility here) affect Krystal. I know, I know; no one here would want to believe that Krystal could possibly be considered "too unfamiliar of a character for Smash for the general population". My point here is: who even KNOWS how Krystal is considered by Sakurai and those other developers in the East? They never let us on with how she squares up in the situation of Smash. No one here knows that. Ergo, we can't even be sure of something that may seem like it wouldn't apply to her. :/

And I suppose that's my main beef with Smash development. We don't get much insight on character selection for the roster, so we're led to make due with what we have (I mean you can just SEE the flame wars regarding the whole "OH GUIZ DAT CHARACTER TAKES A SLOT AWAY FROM THE CHARACTER I WANT!!!1!1!). And, on top of all that (which we don't know if those things are even accurate measures for character selections in the first place), we're left with lots of seemingly-contradictory tidbits (like the one seen here with Takamaru) by Sakurai and the others in post-development. All-in-all, it can leave us with a bitter aftertaste.

It's not difficult to see why I'm not quite as excited about DLC in Smash as some other people. I mean it can certainly do good for the series, and it would most definitely extend the life of the game itself. Those are good things. But there's always that unknown factor, you know?

Personally, I bekive Nintendo and Sakurai, should do an official DLC poll, the question is how to keep the idiots from making absurd requests such as Goku or Shrek

 

[Delzethin]

Personally, I bekive Nintendo and Sakurai, should do an official DLC poll, the question is how to keep the idiots from making absurd requests such as Goku or Shrek

The real problem with a DLC poll would be how so much of the fanbase may not realize what potential other characters have. Just look at the unofficial ones, and how overwhelmingly highly ranked veteran characters end up. They focus more on the characters they know that they don't realize what they characters they don't know could bring to the series.

And yet, we have proof (from every single newcomer trailer this time around) that the fans get interested in newcomers, as long as they're done in an interesting and compelling way.

 

[jahkzheng]

Depending on whether or not Miyamoto legitimately confirms 2015 as the Year of StarFox, I'm convinced there could be a possibility that they add both Wolf and Krystal as a double play with the new StarFox game, but I could be just flat out wrong.

Star Fox is one of the few series I could see getting two DLC characters if we end up getting extensive enough DLC, mainly because it has two prominent characters who missed the cut, one who was in the previous game and the other who has high demand and even higher moveset potential.

Totally agree with you both. Star Fox has the best chance at getting DLC for sure.

- Wolf is the new Mewtwo, aka, the most requested vet.
- Krystal is still in demand as well. She was the second most requested newcomer after K. Rool in that Japanese poll... although I think the sample size was only like 200-300. In general, she's top 5 newcomer material in most places.
- Star Fox Wii U is coming this year!
- Star Fox representation in Smash feels low at just two reps, but is poised to grow as a result.

I'm pretty much expecting a DLC character to coincide with Star Fox Wii U's release, but I'm hoping for two. It all depends on how many DLC slots are "available". Could be just the one. Could be ten.

If Hyrule Warriors and Mario Kart are anything to go off of though, we should expect more than just Mewtwo. In terms of characters that are purely paid DLC and not just special weapons or update unlockables, Hyrule Warriors has got three - Twili Midna, Tingle, and Young Link. Mario Kart got six - Tanooki Mario, Cat Peach, Link, Dry Bowser, Isabelle, and Villager. Both games got a ton of other content besides just characters too. Hyrule Warriors in particular had it's replay value grow enormously from DLC. I have high hopes for Smash, and if it manages to equal either of these two games in DLC content... that'll be just plain awesome.

*blows off the dust on my Smashboards account*

That seems to be the feeling I got from Sakurai when he said that Mewtwo was going to be a sort-of experiment (or something like that) to see how their "newer content distribution" could work out. It does sound a bit like DLC testing to me...

I was paraphrasing a bit there, so I was going off of memory. Don't quote me on that. xD

It's been a while since I've done Smash research... My Smash 4 development knowledge feels a little rusty. On the bright side, I've managed to come to terms with Smash - which is good (you know, the inevitable upsides and downsides). I don't want to go into too much detail for the silly things I've done in the past here...

...

And here's an interesting video Etika made regarding the status of Takamaru and his consideration in the roster of Smash 4:

The reason why this is interesting is because Etika points out a massive contradiction in the logic from Sakurai towards NOT including Takamaru: Familiarity.

Etika pointed out that Marth and Roy were Japanese only characters at the time Melee was released. Look at where those two characters are now, in terms of popularity in the West, thanks to their Smash Brothers inclusions. It did good for them, did it not?

It ALSO did good for Ness. Smash 64, anyone? No? Anyways... Etika didn't mention Ness - but he'd only strengthen that argument. Lucas, by extension, would too.

Of course there are other characters who fit under this argument too, but you get the point.

I just couldn't help but think at how this MAY (stressing the possibility here) affect Krystal. I know, I know; no one here would want to believe that Krystal could possibly be considered "too unfamiliar of a character for Smash for the general population". My point here is: who even KNOWS how Krystal is considered by Sakurai and those other developers in the East? They never let us on with how she squares up in the situation of Smash. No one here knows that. Ergo, we can't even be sure of something that may seem like it wouldn't apply to her. :/

And I suppose that's my main beef with Smash development. We don't get much insight on character selection for the roster, so we're led to make due with what we have (I mean you can just SEE the flame wars regarding the whole "OH GUIZ DAT CHARACTER TAKES A SLOT AWAY FROM THE CHARACTER I WANT!!!1!1!). And, on top of all that (which we don't know if those things are even accurate measures for character selections in the first place), we're left with lots of seemingly-contradictory tidbits (like the one seen here with Takamaru) by Sakurai and the others in post-development. All-in-all, it can leave us with a bitter aftertaste.

It's not difficult to see why I'm not quite as excited about DLC in Smash as some other people. I mean it can certainly do good for the series, and it would most definitely extend the life of the game itself. Those are good things. But there's always that unknown factor, you know?

I think the fact that Star Fox Wii U is coming out soon gives the franchise and it's characters "relevancy points", which Sakurai has also said is important to him. Yes, there's some contradictions among the newcomers in this game to that point too. It seems like a really good business plan though, to plan DLC to coincide with new releases. Star Fox is actually really fortunate and has really good chances if this DLC thing is to continue well beyond Mewtwo. Zelda has a good shot for the same reason at some DLC stuff. And then there's the new games people are anticipating. I hear mention of the Splatoon chatacters more everyday. Personally, I hope for Star Fox or Zelda related DLC long before something Splatoon related, but that's just my preference.

...

Oh, and since we were kind of on the topic of bandwagoning the DLC so Sakurai knows how much we want it... I'll just post this link again as a reminder...

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/17deELX3QVDofXksu8roKCl_kyREFSThygPSoEVT2eNs/viewform

Be sure to vote. I really want to see Krystal for DLC way up there when this poll closes at the end of the month. I'll be disappointed if she's not top 5 of the newcomers.

 

[Wolfheart07]

Star Fox is one of the few series I could see getting two DLC characters if we end up getting extensive enough DLC, mainly because it has two prominent characters who missed the cut, one who was in the previous game and the other who has high demand and even higher moveset potential.


If they didn't start working on Mewtwo until post-production, then no, it wouldn't be. I wouldn't call Sakurai's fear "BS" so much as "on the irrational side", but I can understand why he might think that way.

That said, though, I wouldn't be surprised if Mewtwo was also a way for them to test their strategy for DLC production so that any future stuff would be easier to make...

True. If they can capitalize on it because of its release this year on the Wii U for SF Wii U, then like you said, there's a good chance of Wolf coming back and Krystal making the cut this time around even if she's DLC. Besides, I really like the way how you think of things, Delzethin. But as we all know, the Mewtwo DLC is a test to see how well it works out for a game like Smash 4. Like I said before, I have a feeling that the reception for it will be well received and hopefully prompt Sakurai to continue doing some more DLC characters for Smash 4 and with the Starfox series being relevant once again this year, it could happen.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

And yet, we have proof (from every single newcomer trailer this time around) that the fans get interested in newcomers, as long as they're done in an interesting and compelling way.

To be honest, the fact that those newcomer trailers are really well-done with a lot of effort and style helped people get hyped for the newcomers because that meant we got something fresh and new. The phrase "Character I never knew I wanted" is a line of thinking that does indeed have validity.

 

[IanTheGamer]

The real problem with a DLC poll would be how so much of the fanbase may not realize what potential other characters have. Just look at the unofficial ones, and how overwhelmingly highly ranked veteran characters end up. They focus more on the characters they know that they don't realize what they characters they don't know could bring to the series.

And yet, we have proof (from every single newcomer trailer this time around) that the fans get interested in newcomers, as long as they're done in an interesting and compelling way.

Yeah,

 

[jahkzheng]

The real problem with a DLC poll would be how so much of the fanbase may not realize what potential other characters have. Just look at the unofficial ones, and how overwhelmingly highly ranked veteran characters end up. They focus more on the characters they know that they don't realize what they characters they don't know could bring to the series.

And yet, we have proof (from every single newcomer trailer this time around) that the fans get interested in newcomers, as long as they're done in an interesting and compelling way.

Another huge factor for why vets get votes is because people miss what they once had.

Lets say I took from you a really comfortable coat you owned for a few years. Maybe you didn't love it at first, but you've taken it places and it kind of just fits you better with time. Now it's gone and I'm going to give you the option for a new coat you've never worn or your old loved coat back. Most people would want their old coat back even if the new coat was seemingly better on the surface. We tend to build attachments like this. Of course, some never got too attached to their old coats and are more open to new coats, heh... to continue the analogy.

It works even for characters that aren't even in Smash yet. I'm more interested in seeing newcomers come from games I've played and love. Krystal is one of them. She's an "old coat" so to speak. She hasn't been in a prominent game in a while, but I'd much prefer her to some character from a new franchise I've never played. In general, I have more "wants" for DLC from older franchises that already have reps than I do from franchises that are newer and/or unrepped. It's not that I dislike these things, I'm just not attached to them. It really is a strong influence.

 

[IanTheGamer]

Another huge factor for why vets get votes is because people miss what they once had.

Lets say I took from you a really comfortable coat you owned for a few years. Maybe you didn't love it at first, but you've taken it places and it kind of just fits you better with time. Now it's gone and I'm going to give you the option for a new coat you've never worn or your old loved coat back. Most people would want their old coat back even if the new coat was seemingly better on the surface. We tend to build attachments like this. Of course, some never got too attached to their old coats and are more open to new coats, heh... to continue the analogy.

It works even for characters that aren't even in Smash yet. I'm more interested in seeing newcomers come from games I've played and love. Krystal is one of them. She's an "old coat" so to speak. She hasn't been in a prominent game in a while, but I'd much prefer her to some character from a new franchise I've never played. In general, I have more "wants" for DLC from older franchises that already have reps than I do from franchises that are newer and/or unrepped. It's not that I dislike these things, I'm just not attached to them. It really is a strong influence.

Like the Roy supporters?

 

[jahkzheng]

Like the Roy supporters?

That's a pretty good example since there's little reason to want Roy other than really liking him in Melee. His game wasn't that popular and he was a Melee clone. He was fun to use and stuff, but I felt Ike was an upgrade in just about every way. He took Roy's attribute of being the more brutish and hard hitting of the Melee FE sword users, and made it completely original and even more superlative. And then with Smash 4 we got Lucina, who is basically Roy without the fire and power. Smash 4 has Ike for those that miss an FE rep with hard hitting indelicate attacks and Lucina for those who miss having a Marth clone with non-tipper properties. In fact, Roy's demand went down with Ike, and even more with Lucina. He still has supporters of course, but there's a lot of FE representation that already fulfills what he'd bring to the game. Roy might still be the first name off people's lips when talk of another FE rep comes up, but that has more to do with familiarity and attachment than it has to do with what extra character would add something to the FE representation. There's the argument that he represents his own special corner of the FE universe that no other character can claim... but other than his familiarity and people liking him in Melee that's about all he has going for him argument-wise. Now, they could bring him back with a much different moveset, but it's hard for me to say how they could do that without him still feeling like a character sitting somewhere between Ike and Lucina in terms of playstyle.

Of course, this same argument can be made against Wolf. Thing with Wolf though is...

- He was already a quite unique character in Brawl.
- He was in Brawl and is still more fresh in most people's memories.
- He's a potential third rep for a franchise with just two reps this time around, as opposed to a potential fifth rep for a franchise with four reps already.
- Star Fox being a series that doesn't hop around to different protagonists in different times means the main cast of characters is always relatively relevant.

Still, I'd want Roy too if Ike and Lucina didn't exist. (I will admit however, with how Lucina plays in this game, that I'd rather have had Roy in her place because he actually manages to be more original than her. The clones in this game are really blatant sadly.) And a part of me wouldn't mind having him playable in this game even with Ike and Lucina already in, but his priority is really low. There's many other characters I'd rather see become playable instead. The fact is, we can only expect so many extra DLC characters in this game, and Roy doesn't make the short list for me. FE already has 4 reps and one of them is sadly a clone that plays fairly close to how Roy did. Even if Roy could be made unique, those 4 reps already seems like enough when franchises like Star Fox and Donkey Kong are stuck at two. They get priority for me for sure. I'd say Metroid too, but I don't have a strong desire for any third rep that isn't Ridley and he isn't happening this gen at least.

 

[IanTheGamer]

That's a pretty good example since there's little reason to want Roy other than really liking him in Melee. His game wasn't that popular and he was a Melee clone. He was fun to use and stuff, but I felt Ike was an upgrade in just about every way. He took Roy's attribute of being the more brutish and hard hitting of the Melee FE sword users, and made it completely original and even more superlative. And then with Smash 4 we got Lucina, who is basically Roy without the fire and power. Smash 4 has Ike for those that miss an FE rep with hard hitting indelicate attacks and Lucina for those who miss having a Marth clone with non-tipper properties. In fact, Roy's demand went down with Ike, and even more with Lucina. He still has supporters of course, but there's a lot of FE representation that already fulfills what he'd bring to the game. Roy might still be the first name off people's lips when talk of another FE rep comes up, but that has more to do with familiarity and attachment than it has to do with what extra character would add something to the FE representation. There's the argument that he represents his own special corner of the FE universe that no other character can claim... but other than his familiarity and people liking him in Melee that's about all he has going for him argument-wise. Now, they could bring him back with a much different moveset, but it's hard for me to say how they could do that without him still feeling like a character sitting somewhere between Ike and Lucina in terms of playstyle.

Of course, this same argument can be made against Wolf. Thing with Wolf though is...

- He was already a quite unique character in Brawl.
- He was in Brawl and is still more fresh in most people's memories.
- He's a potential third rep for a franchise with just two reps this time around, as opposed to a potential fifth rep for a franchise with four reps already.
- Star Fox being a series that doesn't hop around to different protagonists in different times means the main cast of characters is always relatively relevant.

Still, I'd want Roy too if Ike and Lucina didn't exist. (I will admit however, with how Lucina plays in this game, that I'd rather have had Roy in her place because he actually manages to be more original than her. The clones in this game are really blatant sadly.) And a part of me wouldn't mind having him playable in this game even with Ike and Lucina already in, but his priority is really low. There's many other characters I'd rather see become playable instead. The fact is, we can only expect so many extra DLC characters in this game, and Roy doesn't make the short list for me. FE already has 4 reps and one of them is sadly a clone that plays fairly close to how Roy did. Even if Roy could be made unique, those 4 reps already seems like enough when franchises like Star Fox and Donkey Kong are stuck at two. They get priority for me for sure. I'd say Metroid too, but I don't have a strong desire for any third rep that isn't Ridley and he isn't happening this gen at least.

Agreed, Fire Emblem should have gotten two reps at most, and as much as I hate it Kirby and kid Icarus are probably going to get DLC reps, even though KI doesn't deserve three, because of Sakurai bias

 

[Delzethin]

Agreed, Fire Emblem should have gotten two reps at most, and as much as I hate it Kirby and kid Icarus are probably going to get DLC reps, even though KI doesn't deserve three, because of Sakurai bias

Careful. Distilling it down to how many "reps" a series "deserved" is looking at it the wrong way. Most of the newcomers this time around are, first and foremost, characters who bring something unique and interesting to the roster. Being well known is a plus, of course (sorry, Takamaru, maybe next time?), but popularity or bandwagon support alone doesn't make them "deserve" to be in Smash...as we found out last July. The developers aren't asking what characters "deserve" the honor of being in Smash, they're looking to see what prominent characters that aren't already in and what characters that didn't exist at the time of the previous game could bring in something thematically compelling.

Of course, Krystal would naturally lean toward being thematically compelling, so it still helps us.

We have no clue how they'll handle DLC characters, or even if we'll see any beyond Mewtwo. Odds are, though, they'll follow the same process as before and favor interesting characters with moveset potential over older or previously prominent characters who might not be very unique or for who they might have to really reach to give them a moveset that doesn't feel stale or redundant. Odds are they'd favor series who haven't had newcomers yet or who have a lot of characters who'd make for interesting newcomers (Star Fox and Pokemon are good examples!), or maybe they'll focus on the characters who missed the initial cut and aren't already in the game in some form other than a trophy (sorry again, Takamaru).

It's easy to call Sakurai bias on something, but the truth is usually more complicated and much less biased. And dammit, the clones were bonuses that started as alternate costume sets.

 

[jahkzheng]

Agreed, Fire Emblem should have gotten two reps at most, and as much as I hate it Kirby and kid Icarus are probably going to get DLC reps, even though KI doesn't deserve three, because of Sakurai bias

I don't mind FE getting 4 reps... I'm just a bit disappointed that one is a clone character, and that a franchise like Star Fox or Donkey Kong still have just two.

Worse yet is that Star Fox had three but one of the characters was cut. One franchise doubled it's reps and the other lost one. Granted, Awakening has those relevancy points and it was quite popular too. And, to be fair, it's more like FE has 3 and a half reps since the clone kind of feels like a half empty slot.

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

It's been a while, but I'll just take the opportunity to say that I am now in support for Krystal as a fighter in Smash Bros, especially if she were to be in a Star Fox X Smash Bros DLC pack with Wolf.

 

[Wolfheart07]

I don't mind FE getting 4 reps... I'm just a bit disappointed that one is a clone character, and that a franchise like Star Fox or Donkey Kong still have just two.

Worse yet is that Star Fox had three but one of the characters was cut. One franchise doubled it's reps and the other lost one. Granted, Awakening has those relevancy points and it was quite popular too. And, to be fair, it's more like FE has 3 and a half reps since the clone kind of feels like a half empty slot.

Agreed. To be honest, the FE roster should have been better off with 3 at the moment there which would have been Marth, Ike and Robin and there you have it. That other slot should have been for someone else because having Lucina to be the clone of Marth with all the moves there including the Final Smash, that was a bit ******** in Sakurai's part. As for Starfox, as I said before, that was no excuse for him to remove Wolf from the roster and give some of Wolf's moves for Fox's customs and his grey palette swap was lame. Wolf has to come back for DLC and to hopefully include Krystal(want the most of all).

 

[Wintropy]

Question arose earlier:

Who's more important to the Star Fox canon, Falco or Wolf? Or are they both of equal necessity?

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Question arose earlier:

Who's more important to the Star Fox canon, Falco or Wolf? Or are they both of equal necessity?

I'd probably say Wolf, Falco is really just a more helpful slippy, he doesn't really add anything except for him being part of the Star Fox Team

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Question arose earlier:

Who's more important to the Star Fox canon, Falco or Wolf? Or are they both of equal necessity?

Falco. Wolf had no role in StarFox or StarFox Adventures, and Falco's basically Fox's second in command.

 

[IanTheGamer]

Agreed. To be honest, the FE roster should have been better off with 3 at the moment there which would have been Marth, Ike and Robin and there you have it. That other slot should have been for someone else because having Lucina to be the clone of Marth with all the moves there including the Final Smash, that was a bit ******** in Sakurai's part. As for Starfox, as I said before, that was no excuse for him to remove Wolf from the roster and give some of Wolf's moves for Fox's customs and his grey palette swap was lame. Wolf has to come back for DLC and to hopefully include Krystal(want the most of all).

I know