Data Prepare Yourself (Ike Match-up thread)

[PyroTakun]

The skill difference is definitely the biggest part, and the fact that he can recover from pretty much anywhere with tornados. And the one time I was about to beat him with a walk-off F-Air to challenge his Side-B, he got a misfire.

Honestly as long as you can avoid the grabs, it's really not that bad. Outside of Fireball and Tornado, Luigi has to be on your nuts, and tornado is pretty punishable if he's just throwing them out there. Luigi's U-Smash is a great OoS option, and it's best not to leave yourself open with any of your laggy moves since Luigis love to punish Ike with Up-B.

I expect most Luigis to play this MU with lots of fireballs and just try to fish for grabs though, in which case you just gotta play smart. So far the best things I found are empty reverse-hops over fireballs and B-Air when you see Luigi going in for grabs, or just empty hops into jab/ grab. Luigi's floatiness and weight make him vulnerable to aerials, Up-Tilt, and Up-Smash.

Also I'd avoid sitting in shield as much as possible this MU cus ya know, grabs.


Boss and I are plannin to go crazy with the update on Wednesday, so I'll update any input on this MU if anything changes.

 

[Trunks159]

As long as you avoid the grabs...

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

The skill difference is definitely the biggest part, and the fact that he can recover from pretty much anywhere with tornados. And the one time I was about to beat him with a walk-off F-Air to challenge his Side-B, he got a misfire.
Honestly as long as you can avoid the grabs, it's really not that bad. Outside of Fireball and Tornado, Luigi has to be on your nuts, and tornado is pretty punishable if he's just throwing them out there. Luigi's U-Smash is a great OoS option, and it's best not to leave yourself open with any of your laggy moves since Luigis love to punish Ike with Up-B.

I expect most Luigis to play this MU with lots of fireballs and just try to fish for grabs though, in which case you just gotta play smart. So far the best things I found are empty reverse-hops over fireballs and B-Air when you see Luigi going in for grabs, or just empty hops into jab/ grab. Luigi's floatiness and weight make him vulnerable to aerials, Up-Tilt, and Up-Smash.

Also I'd avoid sitting in shield as much as possible this MU cus ya know, grabs.

Boss and I are plannin to go crazy with the update on Wednesday, so I'll update any input on this MU if anything changes.

Luigi is always in your nuts, though. Many characters I play against are constantly inside your hitbox and using attacks that are hard to get away from. I feel the best time to go in for kills against Luigi is when he's off-stage. His recovery options are generally so slow that he should be gimp-bait all the time.

Unfortunately, he builds damage like a motherf***er. You can from 0% to 70% in seconds flat.

Also, landing. It's hard to land properly since he's always ready to come get you, and his USmash hitbox is so big that your Nair won't work.

And his dash speed. While the run itself isn't fast, the first two steps he takes from a dash is fast like Sonic, Rosalina, and Fox's way of punishing you immediately.

 

[FirestormNeos]

Any recommendations for counterpicks against this guy?

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Got any tips for Greninja? He's the worst MU for Ike next to Luigi and Sheik.

If he sees you recover high, you get hit with Hydro Pump on Aether. If he sees you go low, he'll dash off-stage and Bair you. Has as much range as you do, disrespects all of your attacks with his priority, projectile game, low stance means hard to hit with Bair, and strong grab game.

 

[WorstGanonWorld]

Got any tips for Greninja? He's the worst MU for Ike next to Luigi and Sheik.

If he sees you recover high, you get hit with Hydro Pump on Aether. If he sees you go low, he'll dash off-stage and Bair you. Has as much range as you do, disrespects all of your attacks with his priority, projectile game, low stance means hard to hit with Bair, and strong grab game.

How does he have more range than Ike? Ike smacks Greninja aslong as he keeps it at midrange.
Hydropump sucks for Ike, when you have to recover with up b go as low as possible and you can avoid it.
Greninja is by no means one of the worst match ups, I think it´s more like 50/50 depending on how well Ike can keep him out with his disjointed hitbox.

 

[GhostUrsa]

Greninja's range is pretty bad compared to Ike in my experience. Only a couple of his moves out range us, like his d-air and u-air, while his smashes and tilts can for the most part be outspaced with Ragnell. On the ground, we clank against most of his attack options and his Shadow Sneak is easily gimp-able (I love counter it, as it almost always give me either a KO or sends them fair for a good offstage fight!) unless it's fired at point blank. Forcing him into a low recovery is almost a guaranteed kill since Hydro pump doesn't cause damage, which is why you see a lot of Greninja players going for a high recovery against Ike.

Hydro pump can gimp our Aether recovery, but it only works against one specific option and angle. Mixing up our recovery options to prevent predictability is the best defense against Greninja offstage. I find retreating f-airs, n-airs and a good shield and punish work well against aggressive Greninjas. (Surprisingly enough, Greninja's horizontal control in the air is worse than ours. Saving a second jump for a psych-out and hitting them with a retreating f-air does wonders!)

The big thing with Greninja is, like sheik, he/she has no really killing power against Ike until high %. This allows us to use Rage to our advantage, since Greninja is a middle weight and pretty easy to knock around. With Greninja's usually being scared to go for a deep recovery against Ike, you can condition your target for a specific hydro pump trajectory and return the gimping favor easily.

The low stance does make using b-air on the ground harder, but I find that with our better general aerial mobility we can more easily setup b-airs and such for punishes off ground than on. His grab is fast, and going to a throw/uair combo is good for getting % on us but I find it easy to DI out of compared to Diddy's Hoo-Hah. You want to DI away, as Greninja's speed and vertical lift requires you to go straight up for it to connect.

I'd give the MU a 55/45 against Ike at most, and that is due to those bloody Shurikens. With their changing parameters, you have to be on your toes as to whether to shield, spotdodge or jump when going against a defensive Greninja. (I never recommend countering, even at close range as a half charged or more shuriken will cause multi-hits and potentially interrupt the counter's attack.)

 

[Caryslan]

Anyone got any advice for fighting Meta Knight? I just played a really good one and he utterly wrecked me. Up to the point, I had taken off at least a stock against my oppoent's other characters and I won several matches with Ike.

But when he played Meta Knight, I had trouble. Everything I tried seemed to be unsafe, and Meta Knight was able to rack up insane damage in no time at all. He shut down my attempts at recovery, and I had no answers for anything Meta Knight did.

Meta Knight has to be one of the most one sided matchups I've ever fought besides Shiek players. Any advice on how to deal with him?

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Anyone got any advice for fighting Meta Knight? I just played a really good one and he utterly wrecked me. Up to the point, I had taken off at least a stock against my oppoent's other characters and I won several matches with Ike.

But when he played Meta Knight, I had trouble. Everything I tried seemed to be unsafe, and Meta Knight was able to rack up insane damage in no time at all. He shut down my attempts at recovery, and I had no answers for anything Meta Knight did.

Meta Knight has to be one of the most one sided matchups I've ever fought besides Shiek players. Any advice on how to deal with him?

He can get you on a moment's whim from halfway across the stage. His dash attack is stupid good and hard to punish unless you're facing the opposite direction. Don't stay in the air with him unless you like to eat Up B and die at 95%. Also keep yourself from being grabbed into DThrow and Up B. Use your jabs if you think he's being grab-happy. Never go off-stage with him.

Meta Knight is not that bad comparatively. You can punish his Mach Tornado with Quick Draw. They also love to fly around you, making them one of the more susceptible characters to USmash, which kills him around 85%.

 

[GhostUrsa]

Anyone got any advice for fighting Meta Knight? I just played a really good one and he utterly wrecked me. Up to the point, I had taken off at least a stock against my oppoent's other characters and I won several matches with Ike.

But when he played Meta Knight, I had trouble. Everything I tried seemed to be unsafe, and Meta Knight was able to rack up insane damage in no time at all. He shut down my attempts at recovery, and I had no answers for anything Meta Knight did.

Meta Knight has to be one of the most one sided matchups I've ever fought besides Shiek players. Any advice on how to deal with him?

The thing with Meta knight is that he has almost no killing power and terrible range with his swords. It's why a lot of his specials are also mobility moves, otherwise he'd almost never hit you. He can combo you for quite a bit, but unless he hits you with a smash (The prefer Usmash for the 2 hits for safety, but sometimes f-smash) or his Up-B (That shuttle loop packs quite a wallop if you get hit with both swoops, so DI is VERY important here) he can't follow through with a KO. You can easily survive to 200%+ against him if you play defensively. It is why many Metaknight's will attempt to gimp you offstage, as they have more jumps and recovery options than we do.

Things to keep in mind when fighting MK would start with his aerial superiority. Avoid spending time in the air if you can help it, as he can out-maneuver you in almost every aspect. His two most reliable kill moves (U-smash and Up-B) are designed to be used against opponents that are above him, so a lot of aerials that we'd use against him are completely unsafe it shielded. (Even lethal!) All of his specials can be blocked (or even clanked, as @ Rango the Mercenary mentioned), which makes punishing him for mistakes much easier. All his specials except Up-B even have a bit of wind-up that makes them counter material! (A counter against his side-b or down-b can be lethal for him once he's in the 100% range) Use Ike's tilts to your advantage, as you WILL out-space him in everything you do. D-tilt is great against a MK that has figured out you are avoiding the air unless you have to, and u-tilt's arc is able to pop him up for a follow up easily if he's trying to stay close. Our jabs have enough speed to keep him from getting grab happy (which he may use to setup a U-B finish), so be mindful once you are above 50% that he may try to attempt this to end the match early.

Meta Knight is a unique MU for Ike because he is (in my opinion) the exact opposite of Ike. Less range but better combos, less weight but more options in the air, better range but more committed during an attack. They are designed to capitalize on most of our weaknesses, but we are able to do the same against them. Keep this in mind as you fight against MK, and you'll improve in no time.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

Just hear to say this... Link wrecks Ike. Ike needs customs to stand a chance against him and even then it's hard. What gets me on this match up is links jab. He can still jab lock you with 1,2,1,2... But yea to me links jab is too much for ike to deal with minus the projectiles which are just as annoying.

 

[GhostUrsa]

Link's jab lock sucks, but other than that He's very manageable with Ike. You can power shield the bow easily, and if you jump over the boomerang but land out of reach you can use it's return trip to push you into Link while smashing or tilting for a good surprise. Things to look out for is that his grab, though terrible with the end lag will have superior reach so what how he likes to do is set you up for a grab and side-step him when he does. (then he'll be at your mercy!)

Try not to challenge his U-tilt or U-smash, as they have power and range much similar to our own. Better to wait him out and run in for the grab or QD him while his animation is finished (depends on distance, etc). His forward smash and dash attacks have enough wind up that you can either shield and punish or Counter them for a good KO potential/fear factor. Unlike Toon Link, most of Link's best KO moves require multiple hits to work and all of them have to connect for best Knockback potential. This means that with Ike's weight, even if you can only dodge/block some of it you'll most likely live to continue pressuring him into something stupid.

If he likes to use his bombs a lot, you'll want to practice your power shielding and spot dodging (a lot of links like to follow up with a grab after throwing the bomb hoping the hit stun or explosion will prevent you from defending yourself) to maximize on your defensive options. I like to mix in some angled shields so I can pop up the bomb for a catch. You can then use it for your own mix ups.

Jab lock is a nightmare when caught in it, but the few times I've suffered it's needle I noticed I could only be permanently stuck in it if I was really close to him. I'm talking like all your hits will sourspot range. We outrange him, so staying farther back so we can either use our sweetspot for KOs or our tip sourspot for setups is more a priority in Melee combat. (He can't reach us unless he goes for a second hit in his F-smash, which is really easy to dodge/counter!) When Link tries to initiate the Jab Lock when I'm farther away, I can DI and move out of it after only a couple of swings. (Takes longer to get the sword's hitbox to intercept my hurtbox that way!)

Hope that helps out a little against Link. His match-up is only slightly in his favor due to his mix-up potential but a smart Ike can bully him into am even playing field by shutting down the effectiveness of one of his ranged abilities.

 

[Mario766]

Link got his best kill options destroyed by the patch, so he has to go for jab 2-3 out of jab 1. Yes he can lock us but it isn't infinite, so it shouldn't keep you locked for very long unless you're caught in the worst situations. It won't lead to a kill option either since you should be able to react to anything out of jab 2 due to IASA frames not being fast enough.p-[

 

[A2ZOMG]

Just hear to say this... Link wrecks Ike. Ike needs customs to stand a chance against him and even then it's hard. What gets me on this match up is links jab. He can still jab lock you with 1,2,1,2... But yea to me links jab is too much for ike to deal with minus the projectiles which are just as annoying.

Technically you can jump out of Jab2 shenanigans if you react really fast, although they're still good for KO setups. Also disagree that Link wrecks Ike. He dies way too easily to juggles and edgeguards, and he has to really respect your grab game. Once you get him offstage with a throw Link has to try really hard to get around Ike's F-air and Eruption, both which will kill him really early.

Don't feel forced to approach. Your goal against Link is to stand outside of his Jab range and pressure him from there. He can't really hurt you with anything except Dashgrab at this range, and Link has the worst throws in the game while Ike in contrast has some of the best throws in the game. Condition him either into blocking against the threat of SH aerials or whiffing grabs to simply contest you in midrange (he will NEED to attempt grabbing if you play solid defense) and let Ike's superior reward carry the match.

I'm also not even sure how you believe Customs make the matchup better for Ike by a significant margin. Yes, custom Ike is generally speaking really amazing, but when I look at this matchup, I honestly believe default Quick Draw may actually be better than Close Combat for escaping juggles and superior reward (unless I'm mistaken, Link has fairly easy ways of punishing Close Combat anyway when he likely won't give you a lot of time to charge it). Maybe Tempest and custom Up-Bs help a little (Aether Wave's projectile is probably pretty useful)? Although I don't think those alone are very huge. At any rate, Ike handles the matchup fine by taking advantage of Link's poor mobility and out-muscling him with superior grab reward.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

So what are the general rules to follow against Luigi and Sheik? I feel that if I could apply these better, these matchups would be less horrendous to deal with?

Oh, and Greninja too. He's a huge pain.

 

[Mario766]

For Luigi I'd stay with using short hop F-Airs for spacing. Don't use N-air if he fireballs, the hitlag from the fireball lets him run in for a possible grab. Jab is key in the match-up because you HAVE to stop the grabs.

Sheik? Watch for an opening and don't get gimped. You should survive till 150+. Her main kill move vs us got destroyed, everything else is avoidable.

Greninja you want to stay on the ground and punish Shuriken throws. When he goes for them, you can SH aerial him if you're close enough. Otherwise, stay defensive and punish him. His moves are pretty laggy but he can wait for you to make a move and punish.

 

[Arrei]

For both Sheik and Luigi, I had to condition myself to shield longer than I initially expected against their aerial approaches. The former because she can fit two aerials into one jump so what looks like an opening often isn't actually one, and the latter because of how quickly his aerial hitboxes come out and how long they last, particularly the cyclone.

 

[PyroTakun]

Is anyone else having a hard time with R.O.B. or is that just me?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Is anyone else having a hard time with R.O.B. or is that just me?

You have to generally play super patient against ROB because you'll have a bad day if you run into lasers/Gyros constantly, meaning it's important to remember to just walk and focus on powershielding to get close. Other than that I would honestly believe the matchup is slight advantage for Ike. Similar range, but Ike does a lot more damage. ROB is also pretty easy for Ike to chase for juggles due to him being really large and floaty. If you can pressure him to be low on fuel, he's also pretty easy to kill with Eruption offstage as well.

 

[GhostUrsa]

With ROB, You'll want to avoid staying either above or below him as his U-air and D-air will outrange our moves. His b-air is designed to beat out punishers with it's delayed fire, but like his d-air is very directional with it's hitbox which allow Ike to come at him from a diagonal using f-air or n-air to disruption.

As @ A2ZOMG mentioned, patience is the big part of the MU. If he's going for a deep recovery, Hold on to Eruption a bit and let it go when you see him trying to go for the snap since his Up-b allows for some aerial mind games. Give yourself a little space when on the ground with him to use the starting lag on his laser and gyro to your advantage (shield and punish or counter, depending).

 

[Mario766]

Im not one for patience. You can go ham on rob if you get up close, Ikes close range is much better if you get past the projectiles. You should win if you dont get gimped or camped out.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

With ROB, You'll want to avoid staying either above or below him as his U-air and D-air will outrange our moves. His b-air is designed to beat out punishers with it's delayed fire, but like his d-air is very directional with it's hitbox which allow Ike to come at him from a diagonal using f-air or n-air to disruption.

As @ A2ZOMG mentioned, patience is the big part of the MU. If he's going for a deep recovery, Hold on to Eruption a bit and let it go when you see him trying to go for the snap since his Up-b allows for some aerial mind games. Give yourself a little space when on the ground with him to use the starting lag on his laser and gyro to your advantage (shield and punish or counter, depending).

R.O.B. is one of the few characters in the game who you can successfully OoS Bair almost every time.

 

[Berserker.]

http://smashboards.com/threads/ike-match-up-thread-the-kid-from-southpark.401186/

If you have some input, feel free to post

 

[GhostUrsa]

Im not one for patience. You can go ham on rob if you get up close, Ikes close range is much better if you get past the projectiles. You should win if you dont get gimped or camped out.

The patience is more for when going for the kill in my experience, as his recovery is much better than most heavies. First instinct against heavies is to go for the gimp, but ROB is hard to do this due to the maneuverability given with his rockets. It's similar to fighting DeDeDe in a way, since offstage is where they seem to have a good comeback chance compared to us.

 

[NeoArcadiaX_SM]

I got 9th/34 yesterday at a stacked tourney, ZeRo was there. Some Olimar took me out, he isn't active too much. I ended up going Mario but lost anyways 1-2 (I know the mistakes I made after the set). But this post is in regards to how Ike can handle Olimar. I have played Rich Brown multiple times and can never figure out how to manipulate the pace of the MU. My fellow Ikes, help a brother out xD.

 

[Mario766]

Good luck is my advice. Oli's grab range kills us like in Brawl

 

[A2ZOMG]

Vs Olimar to my recollection is basically identical to Link, just you have to watch for when he has Purple Pikmin tosses available. The key thing is calling out when he wants to shieldgrab and looking for opportunities to pressure him with grabs and killing him really early with Eruption once he's offstage.

This is a really old 3DS era video I saved from a Japanese player, but I think it demonstrates the matchup pretty well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Pqq7GHHLhg

 

[NeoArcadiaX_SM]

Vs Olimar to my recollection is basically identical to Link, just you have to watch for when he has Purple Pikmin tosses available. The key thing is calling out when he wants to shieldgrab and looking for opportunities to pressure him with grabs and killing him really early with Eruption once he's offstage.

This is a really old 3DS era video I saved from a Japanese player, but I think it demonstrates the matchup pretty well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Pqq7GHHLhg

Thanks for the video, but to be honest that Olimar wasn't playing the MU right as well. I have actually been playing similiar to that Ike against Olimar and it doesn't work out for me. What I have learned is that it is actually best to stay grounded against him and approach him with shield. Going for jabs, dtilts, and grabs also seem to be ideal rather than just spacing him out with aerials. When I would try to space him out with aerials, pivot grabs would get me. Also I learned that it's best to keep the red and blue pikmin attached to us to limit his options of picking up more Pikmin, they also don't do that much damage. Powershield all the pikmin he's throwing and get right into his face seems to be the key in this MU. I prefer Mario in this MU mainly because he can cape Olimar's smash attacks right back at him, but I'll continue it with Ike and test things out. Thanks for the feedback

 

[san.]

In Brawl vs. Olimar, Ike relied on mixing up jab1 and 2 and pressured olimar's grabs. Jab 2 was especially important. As long as Ike hit olimar first, the grab would get interrupted.

In Smash 4, I imagine it's the same with jabs being a little more punishable and dtilt working out better more often. 1 fair seems to destroy pikmin pretty easily. As long as pikmin aren't racking damage, his range game isn't going to be very potent. Nair isn't as good as it seems since it misses pikmin on your arm and causes more hitlag.

Seems like a match where you do rely on spacing bair and ground moves. Fair and bair help remove pikmin and fair/nair become useful again when Oli is in the air.

 

[-RedX-]

Bthrow dash attack was so amazing vs Oli in Brawl. The matchup seems terrifying just from the loss of that + Oli's buffed recovery but I haven't played any so far. I'm hoping to play Dabuz sometime when I come back to tournaments in the summer.

 

[pinkdeaf1]

From my experience, against olimar, we should make use of a lot of full hops in, and double jumps back out, or fast fall a fair or nair. Empty approaches can really condition the olimar to watch out and whiff moves.
Then when we actually attack, we can fast fall fair, or falling nair. If we space our fair right, we can't be punished. I think the same goes for nair.
A lot of empty hops to grabs have really helped me out as Ike when they shield. And I typically cross up shield when they stay in shield too long. Ike has done half the battle if he can force the olimar to shield so we can simply hop around them and fish for that grab. Then again, this does not work against brave olimars who will not stay in shield. As for that, I'm sure we will get camped pretty hard from that point on, so avoiding unnecessary damage would be ideal, with a whole lot more of those empty jumps. So long as we can establish stage control, a campy olimar just requires us to play patient and bait something unsafe. Hell. If we have the lead, we could just run away, and when they get too overzealous chucking pikmin, so long as it isn't purple, they might just slip up and put themselves in lag when we are close enough to punish. It might do us well to keep our backs to olimar so that we can respond with a bair if we get the chance.

 

[PyroTakun]

I can get in on Link/ Tink, Duck Hunt, and Villager, but for some reason Mega Man is giving me all sorts of problems. Anyone got advice for this MU?

 

[WorstGanonWorld]

I can get in on Link/ Tink, Duck Hunt, and Villager, but for some reason Mega Man is giving me all sorts of problems. Anyone got advice for this MU?

I don´t have too much experience with this MU but I´d say go for lots of shield, Ragnell can also be used to destroy Megaman´s projectile´s (Except for sidesmash). Actually, I don´t have that much trouble, his lemons are rather annoying, but they are not a real threat at all. You can also try to grab the next Metal Blade he´s gonna throw at you to limit his pressure options. Also be careful of his dair knuckle, since Ike is not really immune to gimps, his bair can be annoying too. Megaman doesn´t kill very well (except for edgeguards) and his killmoves are all highly punishable (Utilt,Smashes). Also, he´s Eruption bait which helps aswell.

 

[Arrei]

I've only faced one really good Mega Man who gave me a hell of a fight, but I was using Pikachu and they left after I barely won the match. If the Megas giving you trouble are the ones who do as this guy did then shielding is definitely your best tool. The Mega I faced combined aerial and ground lemons to wall me out, so trying to jump over ground shots just gets you hit by an air one. But aside from that, Mega Man's close range moves are also very unsafe on shield, including Dtilt, Utilt, dash, aerials, and smashes, so as long as you don't let him grab you, you have the advantage.

 

[Linkmario00]

So, what about the Shiek MU? I fought some these days and I have quite trouble beating her. Do we have any chance to win? It seems I just can't obtain the spacing that I want vs Sheik

 

[Arrei]

As one of our worst matchups, Shiek fights generally involve us preferring to stay on the ground, shielding a lot and trying to get jabs or grabs on her, since the speed of her air movement and aerials gives her the ability to easily challenge our aerial approaches, though retreating aerials can still work on her. As long as you avoid her smashes and don't get gimped, Shiek will need a very long time to kill us, giving us chances to rack up damage on her. That coupled with rage means that even when she holds the advantage she could get killed with one wrong move, so just always stay patient and look for openings you can take advantage of. If push comes to shove and you just can't get in on her with a kill move, you might just need to rack up some more damage and kill her with a Dthrow.

And don't think you have an opening and drop your shield after she uses one aerial, she can fit two into her jump.

 

[PyroTakun]

I've only faced one really good Mega Man who gave me a hell of a fight, but I was using Pikachu and they left after I barely won the match. If the Megas giving you trouble are the ones who do as this guy did then shielding is definitely your best tool. The Mega I faced combined aerial and ground lemons to wall me out, so trying to jump over ground shots just gets you hit by an air one. But aside from that, Mega Man's close range moves are also very unsafe on shield, including Dtilt, Utilt, dash, aerials, and smashes, so as long as you don't let him grab you, you have the advantage.

Idk if anyone has heard of Golden Joe, but he's a very good Mega Man. At first I just thought I had a hard time cus I didn't have any MU experience, but this guy has been beating me for weeks now.

I'll give it a shot next week and see how it goes.

 

[the king of murder]

About Shiek, while patience is key in this MU, you don't want to be too immobile. You sitting in your shield for too long is exactly what Shiek wants and she will continue harassing you while you miss opportunities to punish her. Obviously you want to shield her Needles and stuff but don't hold shield for too long. Moving around a lot and using Ike's superior range helped me a lot in the MU. Jab and D-tilt are our bread and butter obviously. Bouncing Fish and Fair offstage are easy to see coming and airdodge but saving your double jump is the most important thing to keep in mind offstage.

 

[WorstGanonWorld]

Yeah, shield does almost nothing for us as most of her moves are safe on shield with decent spacing. You´ll just get your shield damaged for free. Avoid getting grabbed as much as you can, that´s how Sheik gets the chance slap you with fairs all the way to offstage and then possibly K.O you at early percents. Sheik´s in big trouble if we get to the 150% mark which is certainly possible due to Sheiks lack of finishers that aren´t smash attacks.

I´ve got a question though : If you know a Bouncing Fish is coming, how do you react to it? Counter is too slow to hit her back, do Fair/Nair work?

 

[Squidrift]

Does anyone know how to handle the ditto?

Surprisingly, Ike has an easy time comboing himself. Bair, D-tilt, and counters work really well also.