Prepare to be Astounded One Last Time: Wiseguy’s Brawl Predictions THE FINAL VERSION!

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Paper Mario is the most likely Mario series newcomer, regardless of whether you like the idea or not.

You got some excellent support and reasons to back this up? Not attacking you, I'm merely interested.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

i took a look at that video it looks like wario swallows the grenade, and negates its effects. I'm guessing that that is one of his b moves, and works similarly to peachs toad move, in that it absorbs the damage of projectiles.

 

[pineappleupsetshark]

Bowser Jr. is a villain in two games. Paper Mario is the hero of 3 games, each of which were critically and commercially successful. Geno is a supporting character from one game that came out over ten years ago, and is unequivocally third-party.
So, compared to his competition, Paper Mario is most likely.

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

Paper Mario is the most likely Mario series newcomer, regardless of whether you like the idea or not.

It's more along these lines:

B.J. > Paper Mario > Toad > Waluigi > Anyone else...

I just can't see anyone topping B.J. in likelihood. The Mario evidence points to him just like the LoZ evidence points to Midna.

 

[raphtmarqui]

It's more along these lines:

B.J. > Paper Mario > Toad > Waluigi > Anyone else...

I just can't see anyone topping B.J. in likelihood. The Mario evidence points to him just like the LoZ evidence points to Midna.

What about Geno...

 

[Phaazoid]

i would support him, but i don't like the idea of two of the same character in a game. i'd rather have Ridley or Wolf than a second mario. i agree that paper mario is cool, but i disagree that he has much of a chance against geno, who tied with diddy kong, Ike, and ridley on the polls. paper mario didn't even make it too the polls. plus sakurai commented on geno 4 times. (for more info, see mcfoxes geno thread)

 

[OysterMeister]

#5 - Because Pokémon Trainer counts as three, there will be less Pokémon characters
Urk, I've always hated this. People hold a grudge against Pokémon and always claim that it takes up too many slots in Smash. In reality, Pokémon hold great potential as characters whether you like it or not. Five is a good and fair number (including Pokémon Trainer by the way not including his three Pokémon seperately) for one of Nintendo's best-selling franchises. Like it or not.

I agree with your other points, but #5 here...
The idea that Pokemon Trainer should be counted as anything OTHER than three characters is silly. It's essentially saying that the character select screen is more important to gameplay than the actual fighting mechanics that make up a smash bros game. You can't magically make the development time needed for a moveset go away by grouping it with two more movesets on the select screen. Poke Trainer is three characters, each with their own moveset.

Now, that said, it IS silly to say that there will be less Pokemon characters because of Poke Trainer, since his addition means that Jigglypuff and Mewtwo and Pichu can all not return and we'll still have the same number of Pokemon characters in Brawl that we did in Melee.

However, it is a perfectly reasonable stance to say that we won't be getting any more NEW Pokemon characters on account of Poke Trainer. Assuming Mewtwo and Jiggly return and Pichu is cut, we'll have a whopping SIX Pokemon characters in Brawl. Six. I know Pokemon is popular and has great moveset potential, but in a game that's supposed to be a focus on multiple series there is such a thing as overkill. Let's all just be happy with what we've got and move on to other series.

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

What about Geno...

Well, as a third-party Mario character, he is the first one in that "Anyone else" category.

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

However, it is a perfectly reasonable stance to say that we won't be getting any more NEW Pokemon characters on account of Poke Trainer. Assuming Mewtwo and Jiggly return and Pichu is cut, we'll have a whopping SIX Pokemon characters in Brawl. Six. I know Pokemon is popular and has great moveset potential, but in a game that's supposed to be a focus on multiple series there is such a thing as overkill. Let's all just be happy with what we've got and move on to other series.

As the top two selling franchises, I see no reason why Pokemon and Mario shouldn't get six apiece. I can even see Loz getting six (Shiek, Midna, Vaati, and the triforce.)


Oops, my bad. Thought someone else would have posted.

 

[HulkingRage]

even though geno is poplular, like ferro de lupe said, all of these other characters have more importance to the series, and have bigger roles
pinappleupsetshark is also correct, he has only been in one game as a support character, that is very old

geno has a very low chance of being in brawl

 

[jimmysilverrims]

Wow, have not been here for a while.

Soo... first of all, like my image?

Dear god, it's the future of Brawl! Meet Super Smash Bros. Crossword!!

Paper Mario is the most likely Mario series newcomer, regardless of whether you like the idea or not.

'Fraid not. I really like PM, but he's just too much of a stretch (actually, a flattening, but I digress) He's another Mario and even if he can become nothing like the Mario we know, I feel that he won't come before some of the more popular Mario characters: Bowser Jr. Toadsworth.

I really hope that PM makes it, but saying that he's the most likely Mario newcomer weather someone likes it or not is not only biased, but ignorant. I'm sorry, but you need to open your eyes to the bigger picture. We all may love Paper Mario, but that doesn't mean diddly squat if you look at the facts:

Paper Mario hasn't had an AT, Item, Stage, Music or any other hints to his inclusion on the Dojo. Bowser Jr. and Toadsworth have the whole Super Mario Sunshine thing, it may not be difinitive proof, but it is an inkling.

Now you may say say: But jimmy, what about Doctor Mario, he was a Mario variant, why not Paper Mario? My answer is diversity, Brawl wants to have not only movesets unique, but visually diffrent. Now you'll say: But jimmy, Paper Mario is 2-D, he is visually diffrent. To that I say GaW was a kind of one time character, having two 2-D characters might be a smidgen of overkill. I mean, there aren't any character like Ice Climbers because that's what keeps them unique, and making something like this would take away from GaW's individuality.

The next thing in your mind might be: Jimmy, if you say you like Paper Mario, why are you against him? Well, I'm not against him, it's just that it seems that he has less of a chance than say Bowser Jr., and trust me, I do not/i] want to see over five Mario characters, sure Nintendo loves Mario, but having Mario characters dominate the roster is definitely not what I'm, and surely Sakurai wants.

Basically what I'm saying is, don't just say someone's getting in without looking at all of the facts.

'Nuff said.

 

[Legolastom]

As the top two selling franchises, I see no reason why Pokemon and Mario shouldn't get six apiece. I can even see Loz getting six (Shiek, Midna, Vaati, and the triforce.)


Oops, my bad. Thought someone else would have posted.

Honestly i can see Zelda getting only 4 or 5... Tri3 and WW Link... and maybe Vaati as well.

 

[OysterMeister]

As the top two selling franchises, I see no reason why Pokemon and Mario shouldn't get six apiece. I can even see Loz getting six (Shiek, Midna, Vaati, and the triforce.)

No no, I said that Pokemon WILL have six characters in Brawl, seven in the unlikely event that Pichu returns. What I meant was that having six playable pokemon characters in Brawl, and then expecting EVEN MORE, is going a little overboard. Seriously, six is plenty, and I just think it's unrealistic to expect more than three newcomers and six to seven representatives for any series in Brawl.

 

[jimmysilverrims]

No no, I said that Pokemon WILL have six characters in Brawl, seven in the unlikely event that Pichu returns. What I meant was that having six playable pokemon characters in Brawl, and then expecting EVEN MORE, is going a little overboard. Seriously, six is plenty, and I just think it's unrealistic to expect more than three newcomers and six to seven representatives for any series in Brawl.

Don't you think that having six characters in any franchise, let alone Pokemon is a tad too much when Yoshi, Wario, and Capt. Falcon's frenchises only have one representative? I mean, c'mon. Pokemon may be a great selling game, but a host of fighters that don't look corny it is not. I think that with PT and possibly Lucario they've filled their quota of super powered animals, don't you think?

And that goes for Zelda too. Yeah, I see the tri and Midna and WW Link, but no Sheik and certainly no Vaati. I mean, c'mon! He's a head with tentacle for cryin' out loud, take a look at this guy:

How on f***ing earth can he be a playable character!? Even with that, he's only been in one bloody good game! to me the whole four swords thing was just a fad, something to ride the 'Celda' wave of populairity. Only MC would put him on top and that was lame. I think that if a Zelda character's getting in Brawl he/she/it/potato should be in at least one 3D game.

'Nuff said.

 

[Arteen]

And that goes for Zelda too. Yeah, I see the tri and Midna and WW Link, but no Sheik and certainly no Vaati. I mean, c'mon! He's a head with tentacle for cryin' out loud, take a look at this guy:

<snip>

How on f***ing earth can he be a playable character!? Even with that, he's only been in one bloody good game! to me the whole four swords thing was just a fad, something to ride the 'Celda' wave of populairity.

Do research. It took me one second to do a Wikipedia search on Vaati.
"Vaati, the Wind Mage, is the main antagonist of Four Swords, The Minish Cap and Four Swords Adventures."

He doesn't look unreasonable with that appearance.

 

[Phaazoid]

hey, this pic is for wiseguy because i know he likes the whole monty python holy grail thing.

there ya go!

 

[jimmysilverrims]

Yeah, I saw that guy and thought that he wouldn't make it even if he had a secondary form. He's just one of those characters that when someone tells you about it you say: "Who's he?" just like the lesser known Geno Vaati is one of the least known Zelda characters ever. I mean, when I say: 'Zelda' you immediately think Zelda (Duh!), Link, Ganondorf, and maybe even WW Link or Wolf Link. But Vaati, c'mon. He's never ever been in a game in 3D. What does that tell you? It says that he's a throwaway villian, no more important than Agnaheim (Anaghiem, Aghneim, Agagiggy?) He's about as much of a villian to Link as say, any of the CD-i games. He might make it in as an AT, but I think he won't get in before Midna, WW Link, heck, I'd probably see Tingle or even Skullkid before Vaati.

Oh, Dueling Analouges, what hilairities can't you bring?

'Nuff said.

 

[jimmysilverrims]

Sorry for the double post, but here's another Mony Python refrencing strip (alibeit a small one)

 

[Shuma]

Vaati Pft? I agree who the hell is he? he looks like a filler villain, like Skull kid.

 

[raphtmarqui]

I agree about Vaati too. I would much rather see Midna any day.

 

[Phaazoid]

i saw that one too jimmy. funny site, no?

 

[Legolastom]

Eaugh. Vaati > Midna.

Seriously he could easily be used to rep the lighter side of the series... he isnt the greatest character but ****ing hell... he is better than midna.

 

[jimmysilverrims]

i saw that one too jimmy. funny site, no?

Ah, but it is no Ctrl+Alt+Del. Like the Nutter Butter, it is great, but underappreciated. *Sigh*

Oh well, looks like we're all in agreement on the Vaati-Midna argument, but let's tackle some of the more big topics. Let's baby-step. How do you guys feel about the whole Sheik v. WW Link v. Midna fight? Personally, I see Sheik as dead, but hey.

Eaugh. Vaati > Midna.

Seriously he could easily be used to rep the lighter side of the series... he isnt the greatest character but ****ing hell... he is better than midna.

Woah, perhaps I spoke too soon. What makes Vaati so special?

 

[raphtmarqui]

Midna and Wolf Link would bring more innovation to the table...
At least it would be another quadruped.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

i think that all three will make it. I think all three of them are deserving enough to have their own move set and plus they represent three parts of the zelda series, cel-shaded, old school, and new school

 

[Wiseguy]

Guess who's not dead! That would be me.

Check it out! I've updated my 3rd party runner up list. It's a minor update really, but an update nevertheless. If you were to read this update, you might discover a link to a new character support thread. Click on this link, and all your wildest dreams will come true.

Wow, have not been here for a while.

Soo... first of all, like my image?

It's the current Brawl line-up. Conveniently made up to be aesthetically-pleasing as well as easy to add to for all franchises at the off-chance (or likely-chance) of more additions. I'll probably be using it as a guide some point in the future so its mine, all MINE, gorrit?

So, to summarise, just who do we have so far?

1. Mario
2. Peach
3. Bowser
4. Donkey Kong
5. Diddy Kong
6. Yoshi
7. Wario
8. Link
9. Zelda
10. Kirby
11. Meta Knight
12. Pikachu
13. Pokémon Trainer -- Squirtle / Ivysaur / Charizard
14. Fox
15 & 16. Samus / Zero Suit Samus
17. Ike
18. Lucas
19. Ice Climbers
20. Pit
21. Snake

Blimey mac-wimey! That's 21 character right there ready to go not to mention a couple of shoe-ins (who are much less clear than we realise). Now, let's do some simple arithemetic taking your guess of 40:

40 - 21 = 19

Nineteen characters left to be revealed? Are we really over half way there? Or is it even less than we thought.

Y'know what I think? I think it's more than we though. Scoff at me if you will but this is a culmination of Sakurai's efforts, he's been working at it for a very long time now and I really could see 45 characters in the final game. Overkill? Oh no, not at all... simply the best gift a Nintendo-gamer could have.

I dunno man. We have less than two months until Brawl's release (ie: less than 40 updates) so unless we start getting a flood of character updates, I think a 40 character roster is downright optimistic.

In theme with my optimism let's debunk a couple of debunkers and defeatist rumours.

#1 - The only Animal Crossing character left is the human character
WRONG!!!!!! C'mon, let's think out of the box here. Tom Nook and KK. Slider still have as larger chances as they ever did. Admittedly Mr. Ressetti has lost his chances being an Assist Trophy but Nook and Slider, despite appearing in the background still have good chances. Play the stage at 7pm on Saturday? Well, Sakurai's too excited to talk about it. Maybe it's something a little bit more than just listening to K.K Slider. Could it be the way to unlock him?

Riddle me this Batman: if Sakurai has been working on a playable moveset for Nook or Slider, why would he lead everyone astray by purposely showing them as part of the background of Smashville? And the 7pm thing is so awesome in and of itself that I can barely talk about it myself...

#2 - Miis are out because they can be avatars in wi-fi
Err... why? Seriously, though, they could be avatars as well as fighters y'know. Maybe those Miis in that great update were actually a hint that Miis were a character. It's actually what first came to mind when I saw it. Their avatars were amongst other characters in the game's profiles after all. There's still hope for a Jesus vs. Chuck Norris fight, yet.

Oompa loompa doompety doo
I've got a perfect puzzle for you:

See those neat little boxes around the pictures of the playable characters like Mario? If Sakurai has a playable Mii moveset in the works, are Miis without that little box? My guess: they are not playable characters. Hopefully, I'm wrong because Miis seriously own!

#3 - There are only going to be 2 or 3 third party characters
Wiseguy now thinks there's only going to be one and I'll get to that in a second. Puh-lease, Sakurai may have said this but he said it before he'd even officially started developing the game and things can change. End of, stop using it as an excuse.

I agree with you there. There is no evidence how many 3rd party characters will make the cut. 2-3 is not a confiramtion of zilch.

#4 - Snake is going to be the only third party character now
I'm guessing it's because Snake's getting this half-tongue in cheek, half-awesomeness treatment that you're all thinking this. Playing his stage with the man himself allows you to somehow access absolutely hillarious videos and how could any other character top that because Snake really is getting preferential treatment. Right? Wrong! There's absolutely nothing to suggest that Snake's the only third-party, expect to see some other megat0ns raise their heads BEFORE the game is released. Sonic's far too obvious (though he's probably in it too), let's think absolutely ingenius and bizarre, shall we?

Gotacha.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=119498

#5 - Because Pokémon Trainer counts as three, there will be less Pokémon characters
Urk, I've always hated this. People hold a grudge against Pokémon and always claim that it takes up too many slots in Smash. In reality, Pokémon hold great potential as characters whether you like it or not. Five is a good and fair number (including Pokémon Trainer by the way not including his three Pokémon seperately) for one of Nintendo's best-selling franchises. Like it or not.

3 playable movesets take the same ammount of time to program into the game whether they hae their own spot on the selection screen or not. With 6 playable Pokemon, Sakurai has already been more than generous to the series.

And I'm not just saying that because of my grudge against the series. Just mostly.

#6 - Sakurai's easy to predict
Oh no he's not!

You've got me there.

... er, when did I say that?

My next post will involve retaliations to people's complaints towards my views as well as a full character list. Look forward to it!

I shall. Unfortunately, I might be too busy to respond. Thanks for the intellegent input, Smile Guy.

hey, this pic is for wiseguy because i know he likes the whole monty python holy grail thing.

there ya go!

Awesome!

Sorry for the double post, but here's another Mony Python refrencing strip (alibeit a small one)

The first robot's line is hilarious, but I'm not getting the Monty Python referance. Maybe I have to know more about Megaman.

******************************************************************************

So what updates do you think we'll see this week guys? I'll bet money that a certain staff-weilding cat from the Starfox series is revealed this week. Call it a hunch.

 

[Shuma]

Well, we have a number of people running around saying we'll get a new Trailer and Sonic... but my bet is on Ridley, since we started with a Metroid Update.


Of course... they don't call me optimistic for nothing.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

The wise one returns!

im hoping my fav character makes his triumphant return. hopefully you guys can tell who im talking about

 

[Wiseguy]

The wise one returns!

im hoping my fav character makes his triumphant return. hopefully you guys can tell who im talking about

Pichu?

(I kid, I kid.)

 

[Shuma]

That was not funny! you almost got me there, seriously dude.

 

[hojiky]

I dunno man. We have less than two months until Brawl's release (ie: less than 40 updates) so unless we start getting a flood of character updates, I think a 40 character roster is downright optimistic.

Did Sakurai ever say that he would reveal ALL the characters before brawl's release? Sakurai seems more like the kind of guy who would tell everyone most of the characters and then, when we all get the game and find the characters, we'll still be able to say "OH MY GOD!" when we find a new, unmentioned character.

Riddle me this Batman: if Sakurai has been working on a playable moveset for Nook or Slider, why would he lead everyone astray by purposely showing them as part of the background of Smashville? And the 7pm thing is so awesome in and of itself that I can barely talk about it myself...

This goes back to my previous statement. How psyched would you be if suddenly, when you think you've gotten all the characters,

WARNING: NEWCOMER APPROACHING

Slider suddenly jumps out from the background to fight? That might just blow my mind.

The first robot's line is hilarious, but I'm not getting the Monty Python referance. Maybe I have to know more about Megaman.

Sir "Not-seen-in-this-film" (or something like that) is a joke used in Holy Grail when they introduce the knights of the round table.

 

[jimmysilverrims]

Guess who's not dead! That would be me.

****, missed, I mean... Great! You're back!

The first robot's line is hilarious, but I'm not getting the Monty Python referance. Maybe I have to know more about Megaman.

No, you don't need to know more about Megaman, it's really a small one (Sir Not-Appearing- In-This-Film/ Man Not-Appearing-In-This-Game). Ni!

So what updates do you think we'll see this week guys? I'll bet money that a certain staff-weilding cat from the Starfox series is revealed this week. Call it a hunch.

*Snif**Snif* Do I smell Olimar? I hope so, or Ridley, or Midna, or... ah, who am I kiddin'? We're gettin' another returning character.

But can you imagine the awesomeness that would be my fabled character-tacular!? An entire week solid of characters!?

 

[Numa Dude]

Did Sakurai ever say that he would reveal ALL the characters before brawl's release?

I think I heard somewhere that he will reveal all of the playable characters the day it comes out in Japan because he knows the internet will spoil it anyway.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Wisey lives!

Hooray!

Sorry about the flame war against Luke a little while ago. He was being an *** and I had to call him out on it. Anybody who says "trolling isn't a bad thing" needs to be knocked down a couple of pegs.

And I am seriously in doubt about Krystal being revealed at some point this week. I'm under the impression that she'll be revealed in a month or so.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Legolastom]

Hey his is banned anyways so what does it matter?

Anyways we are in need of a stage this week... maybe the Mario kart one? (O NVM we got a stage last week)

But seriously imagine what a surprise it would be if he just randomly updates with a third party character on a Tuesday it would give some people a heart attack.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

I GOT'S A WII!!!

Okay, that was off topic. Like...seriously. But anyways, a solid week of characters would be nothing short of...well, for lack of a better term, orgasmic.

(P.S. If that word is frowned upon by the mods in the forum, lemme know and I'll edit it out. Some people are...PICKY. Ya.)

 

[jimmysilverrims]

Well, whatever we get ot of that grab bag that is the Dojo, we can only hope that the updates we see will be TOTALLY ****ING AWESOME!!! Ahem, sorry.

And a synonym for FDO's word can be: awespecterrifantasuperifficoolocity

 

[Wiseguy]

Did Sakurai ever say that he would reveal ALL the characters before brawl's release? Sakurai seems more like the kind of guy who would tell everyone most of the characters and then, when we all get the game and find the characters, we'll still be able to say "OH MY GOD!" when we find a new, unmentioned character.

Actually, he said just that. Saumerai Panda's translation thread contains a quote where Sakurai says something to the effect that he would reveal all characters prior to release, because the entire roster will probably be leaked by that point.

This goes back to my previous statement. How psyched would you be if suddenly, when you think you've gotten all the characters,

WARNING: NEWCOMER APPROACHING

Slider suddenly jumps out from the background to fight? That might just blow my mind.

I'd be pretty phsyched. Slider is way cooler than the SC character. I just don't think it's very likely.

Sir "Not-seen-in-this-film" (or something like that) is a joke used in Holy Grail when they introduce the knights of the round table.

No, you don't need to know more about Megaman, it's really a small one (Sir Not-Appearing- In-This-Film/ Man Not-Appearing-In-This-Game). Ni!

Oh yeah! I can't believe I missed that!

*Snif**Snif* Do I smell Olimar? I hope so, or Ridley, or Midna, or... ah, who am I kiddin'? We're gettin' another returning character.

But can you imagine the awesomeness that would be my fabled character-tacular!? An entire week solid of characters!?

Both of those scenarios would rock, I must say. Every morning I pray for an Olimar update.

Wisey lives!

Hooray!

Sorry about the flame war against Luke a little while ago. He was being an *** and I had to call him out on it. Anybody who says "trolling isn't a bad thing" needs to be knocked down a couple of pegs.

And I am seriously in doubt about Krystal being revealed at some point this week. I'm under the impression that she'll be revealed in a month or so.

Smooth Criminal

Don't worry about it, my friend. Flame wars just seemed to follow that Luke guy around.

The reason I think this is Krystal's time is because Star Fox is the only major series with only one rep. Also, because it seems like the kind of unexpected move that Sakurai seems to like. Still, it's just a feeling.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Ah, Holy Grail...good times...

'Course they have passed for me...Now I don't know anyone who even knows who Monty Python is...

 

[jimmysilverrims]

*holds envelope to head*

Me: I'm seeing... a character, yes... something, something purple...

You: So, who is it?

Me: Guess we won't know.

*Throws envelope in fire*

You: NOOOOOOO!!!

Darth Vader: NOOOOOOOO!!!

William Shatner: KAAAAAAAN!!!

Rabbid: WIIIIIIIIII!!!

Is that one too off topic? But seriously, I think that the next update will be a purple character from a shared franchise. (Notice how both Krystal and Ridley are purple? I thought that out.)

EDIT: Never fear, MPatHG fan, you are not alone!

Black Knight: Tis but a scratch!