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Meta Pound 2016 Competitive Impressions

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Luco

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Mega Man is a significantly better character than Pokémon Trainer. This comparison makes no sense.
Totally agree, BUT it might have something to do with people's fallen perception of MM recently and ZeRo putting him as low as like 40th on his 1.1.4 tier list. Obviously you can cite the credibility of that source (Sorry ZeRo, though I do like your videos) but it would definitely affect opinions out there so I can understand why the comparison was made even if I don't agree with it.
 
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bc1910

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This is like saying Genesis 3 was a disappointing tournament for Greninja and clear evidence that he'll never be high tier - of course a character's results look bad when none of their best reps are at a tournament.

Still a little disappointing to see SmashGod leading with Kirby every set smh
Genesis 3 WAS disappointing for Greninja. What's your point? Rep or no rep, results are results. Greninja didn't get away with having "no rep" even though he was clearly a good character and iStudy didn't travel, so I don't see why Corrin should be cut any slack. Not to say Corrin's at this point yet, but you reach a point where "no rep" isn't really an excuse because it's been so long, you have to ask yourself why there's no rep. The Pits and Peach, for example.

Also please bear in mind the characters' different trajectories. Greninja is slowly improving, Corrin started strong and is on the way down. It's still to early to say where she'll end up and there could easily be an upswing in Corrin results, but IMO she doesn't cut it on paper or in practice.
 
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Wintermelon43

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Predictions for top 16:

1st: Dabuz (:rosalina:) Undefeated

2nd: Marrss (:4zss:) Double eliminated by Dabuz

3rd: Ally (:4mario:) Eliminated by Dabuz and Marrss

4th: Tweek ( :4cloud:) Eliminated by Marrss and Ally

5th: Larry Lurr (:4fox::4dk::4sheik:) Double Eliminated by Tweek

5th: Pink Fresh (:4bayonetta:) Eliminated by whoever sent him to losers and Ally

7th: Mr. R (:4sheik:) Double Eliminated by Pink Fresh

7th: Void (:4sheik:) Eliminated by Ally and Larry Lurr

9th: Kidgoggles (:4sonic:) Eliminated by Tweek and Mr. R

9th: Hyuga (:4tlink:) Eliminated by Ally and Pink Fresh

9th: Esam (:4pikachu:) Eliminated by Marrss and Void

9th: Abadango (:4mewtwo:, maybe :4metaknight:) Eliminated by Dabuz and Larry Lurr

13th: Scatt (:4megaman:) Eliminated by whoever sent him to losers and Larry Lurr

13th: Nakat (:4ness::4fox::4lucas::4pikachu::substitute:) Eliminated by Dabuz and Esam

13th: Saj (:4bayonetta:) Eliminated by whoever sent him to losers and Hyuga

13th: K9 (:4sheik:) Eliminated by whoever sent him to losers and Mr. R

This is gonna be a really great and hype top 16 tho. Espicially with Nairo being eliminated already.
 

teddystalin

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Genesis 3 WAS disappointing for Greninja. What's your point? Rep or no rep, results are results. Greninja didn't get away with having "no rep" even though he was clearly a good character and iStudy didn't travel, so I don't see why Corrin should be cut any slack. Not to say Corrin's at this point yet, but you reach a point where "no rep" isn't really an excuse because it's been so long, you have to ask yourself why there's no rep. The Pits and Peach, for example.

Also please bear in mind the characters' different trajectories. Greninja is slowly improving, Corrin started strong and is on the way down. It's still to early to say where she'll end up and there could easily be an upswing in Corrin results, but IMO she doesn't cut it on paper or in practice.
Maybe it's because I play Villager, but I disagree there. The most important thing in terms of results is that when a character's top mains show up, they perform. And when you talk about character's trajectories, you need to bear in mind that there's a fine line between actual historical trends and pure recency bias. We could, for instance, talk about how Ness and Peach had downward trends in results in late 2015, or we could talk about how when FOW/Shaky or SlayerZ came to tournaments, they always made top 16, no matter how stacked the event.

With 58 characters in this game, looking at tournaments one by one is going to make your perceptions of anyone below the established top tiers shift wildly every month due to the fact that their top players are few and have lives outside of the game. I'm not going to hold Genesis 3 against Greninja because Some and iStudying couldn't get transoceanic flights; why would I? Otherwise you're looking at a popularity contest and can look at the Smashboards rankings for all your tiering needs.
 
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bc1910

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Maybe it's because I play Villager, but I disagree there. The most important thing in terms of results is that when a character's top mains show up, they perform.
I don't disagree with this. But sadly, we have to make do with the results we get because we will probably never get the top mains of every viable character in this game attending the same tournament. Not to mention SMASH G0D is a solid player with a few strong placings under his belt, so he should have been able to do Corrin justice.

And when you talk about character's trajectories, you need to bear in mind that there's a fine line between actual historical trends and pure recency bias. We could, for instance, talk about how Ness and Peach had downward trends in results in late 2015, or we could talk about how when FOW/Shaky or SlayerZ came to tournaments, they always made top 16, no matter how stacked the event.
This is a self-defeating argument. Recent results are by far the most important thing - no-one's worried about how strong Duck Hunt and Bowser were 18 months ago. This might be relevant if we were talking about ~1 month's worth of results (I could see this counting as recency bias), but we're not - there's been a lack of results from Peach, Pit and others for a long time. SlayerZ hasn't been active lately and sure, he could boost Peach's results when he gets back, but right now she doesn't have a strong position in the meta.

Ness is doing okay without FOW/Shaky, and FOW is decently active anyway. I would say we have Ness "figured out" in the current meta as a top 10-15 character who's a significant threat but gets roadblocked by Rosalina.

With 58 characters in this game, looking at tournaments one by one is going to make your perceptions of anyone below the established top tiers shift wildly every month due to the fact that their top players are few and have lives outside of the game. I'm not going to hold Genesis 3 against Greninja because Some and iStudying couldn't get transoceanic flights; why would I? Otherwise you're looking at a popularity contest and can look at the Smashboards rankings for all your tiering needs.
I don't think looking at majors one-by-one is a good way to arrange tier lists either, but this particular tournament still backs up what I already thought about Corrin and I'm not going to ignore that. Also, there aren't that many majors - I think it's fair for each one to have an impact, however small, on tiering considerations.

Trust me, I was there reminding everyone that no good Greninja players were present at Genesis 3, but it didn't stop anyone saying he "placed poorly" or whatever. I'm afraid I'll be giving as good as I get on that front. And I can understand and agree with the thought behind it - when a character starts making waves it is disappointing when they don't perform well at a stacked event, whatever the reason.

I don't disagree with what you're saying by the way, I just think we have to be realistic about how people will perceive results, and indeed the results themselves. "Corrin suffered from a lack of rep, but she performed badly this tournament" might be a better way to phrase what I want to say.

To everyone liking teddy's posts, I hope you remember them next time Greninja fails to place because of no rep :3
 
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ShadowGuy1

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And 1 Bayo left in Winners side and thats Goggles, but he uses Sonic wayyyyy more.
 

Pancracio17

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is it just me or did the recent patches really diversify tournament results, i feel like there are much more characters than a couple months ago.

Edit: The bayo is pink fresh though, not googles.

Edit2: was
 
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Das Koopa

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Marss 3-1 over Pink Fresh

RIP Bayonetta
 

Das Koopa

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Gonna list the predictions I made last night since one prediction end up coming true (Marss > Fresh)

Marss > Pink Fresh
Tweek > KID
Ally > VoiD
Dabuz > Abadango
Larry Lurr > Scatt (13th)
Hyuga > Saj (13th)
ESAM > NAKAT (13th)
Mr. R > K9 (13th)
Larry Lurr > Abadango (9th)
VoiD > ESAM (9th)
Pink Fresh > Hyuga (9th)
Mr. R > KID (9th)
Mr. R > Pink Fresh (7th)
VoiD > Larry Lurr (7th)
Tweek > Marss
Dabuz > Ally
Marss > VoiD (5th)
Ally > Mr. R (5th)
Ally > Marss (4th)
Tweek > Dabuz
Dabuz > Ally (3rd)
Tweek > Dabuz (2nd)
Tweek (1st)

with an alternate bracket being in Dabuz's favor, but I'll go for the upset bracket
 

Smog Frog

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kid goggles :4sonic: really exploiting the lack of tweek :4cloud: landing options on fd. also his movement is hella crisp.
 

Das Koopa

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Tweek 3-1 KID Goggles, but a lot of close games. Ally vs. VoiD now.
 
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Charoite

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Actually Greninja :4greninja: perfomance was more disappointing that :4corrinf:

Then you look at :4tlink: who got top 16 with only have hyuga.

There was Techei, Amsa and iStudying, but the character didn't got to top 16, its not like these players arent bad, but compared to corin who only have SmashGod and promeaelia as her represent, the comparison is misleading i would agree with you if Ryuga or cosmic cosmos were in the tournement and she didn't placed well, but without her best players playing in the tournament i cant go to a conclusion, if there was more tournaments and this placement is still bad then i would agree that she has no results to be called a high tier character.
 

TurboLink

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Looks like Void is the best post-patch Sheik so far.

Ally turned to R.O.B.
 
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D

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Ally just picked R.O.B... did he throw the set away?

EDIT: Ally lost to VoiD 3-0. I actually thought he was gonna connect the Beep Boop on him last game LOL
 
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Das Koopa

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ROB was a good effort (better result than Mario) but VoiD is on-point today.
 
D

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Abadango vs. Dabuz! Let's go!

HE'S GOING :4metaknight:!
 
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Das Koopa

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As expected, Abadango going Meta Knight.

ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ raise your abadongers ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ
 
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Luco

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And yet he evens it up as if the ladder combo was never nerfed. :laugh:

EDIT: AND he does it again in game 3 for stock 1!

Of course I realise it still works on Rosa but still. :p

EDIT2: Andddddd game 3 to 2 ladders by Abadango.
 
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Das Koopa

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Game 3 was a total blowout. Aba up 2-1.
 
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bc1910

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Not sure how to feel about that ROB pick. He looked pretty scary with the beep boops though.

Abadango making it look like MK wasn't nerfed.
Actually Greninja :4greninja: perfomance was more disappointing that :4corrinf:

Then you look at :4tlink: who got top 16 with only have hyuga.

There was Techei, Amsa and iStudying, but the character didn't got to top 16, its not like these players arent bad, but compared to corin who only have SmashGod and promeaelia as her represent, the comparison is misleading i would agree with you if Ryuga or cosmic cosmos were in the tournement and she didn't placed well, but without her best players playing in the tournament i cant go to a conclusion, if there was more tournaments and this placement is still bad then i would agree that she has no results to be called a high tier character.
I think Greninja's performance was disappointing as well. But only insofar as I think he's a better character than character than Corrin (and indeed others who outplaced him) so he should have done better. The raw result was still way more impressive for Greninja than Corrin.
 
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Luco

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THAT SD THOUGH.

Also rofl at "Abadango has lost more stocks to himself than Dabuz at this point...?"

He almost got it again btw. That Luma respawn and it's 2-2.
 
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Das Koopa

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when anybody asks what "jank" is I'm just gonna link this set

this is a trainwreck for everyone involved lol
 

EnhaloTricks

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Aba doing ladder combos like this is pre-patch. Dabuz SERIOUSLY seeds to lab this MU out in 1.1.5.

But Dabuz takes game 4. Poor Aba having 2 LOW % SD's though lol
 

Smog Frog

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at this point it's abadango vs himself

dabuz would be in losers already if aba hadnt give charity stocks
 

Luco

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Luma has the average lifespan of an ant right now.

This is bonkers.

And in a stupidly close finale Aba finally takes it.
 
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Djent

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Winning a +2 MU against someone who you've beaten even before that isn't much of an upset. But I'm super hyped to see Abadango vs. VoiD.
 
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