Potential Roster/Stage Leak Thread

[Petrichor]

In the recent Smash4 trailers in Japan, they say something like "Play as over 40 characters!". When you think about the fact that the leaked roster+Miis is 49, it seems as though that could be all there is. Because if there were over 50 characters, the trailer would want to boast having over 50 characters instead. It's true that 53 is still over 40, but in advertising, they usually choose the biggest number to claim something is over. It doesn't confirm the roster is final, but it something to consider. The new Potd has made me question things again.

Actually, with Miis it's 51. The three types will almost certainly count as three seperate characters officially, just like transformable characters were officially separate in the past. Since we already have over 50 with the leak, the "over 40 character" bit means nothing.

As for the ads wanting to boast more than 50, the most likely explanation is that the agency making the ads doesn't know how many characters are in the game, only that there are 40 officially confirmed now and more to be revealed. Plus, it's a Smash game. It will sell millions upon millions of copies whether they say "over 40" or "over 50".

 

[uebo7]

While plausible, I honestly don't see that happening, I mean your reasoning is fine and all, but why should we wait for the Wii U release to finally unlock the rest of the roster? It's like Sakurai is saying "hey, you have this padlock that tells you, that you haven't unlocked everything. Oh you've completely unlocked everything and the lock is still there? Guess what? You have to wait until the Wii U release to truly unlock everything! Surprise!"

It's true that it's kind of a mean thing to do. But you have to admit from a company's standpoint, it's a nice way to make money. It's possible Nintendo could have pressured Sakurai to do such a thing even if he didn't like the idea.

 

[Deleted member]

This POTD gave me all the hope I need. Please just give us Mewtwo, Sakurai. That's all I freaking want!

 

[Boofer]

Yes, but that wouldn't have been much different. Well, I guess it's more specific, but typically with these types of phrases, they go by 10s if they can. I see what you're saying, though.

hopefulness = back to pre-POTD levels....

 

[uebo7]

Actually, with Miis it's 51. The three types will almost certainly count as three seperate characters officially, just like transformable characters were officially separate in the past. Since we already have over 50 with the leak, the "over 40 character" bit means nothing.

As for the ads wanting to boast more than 50, the most likely explanation is that the agency making the ads doesn't know how many characters are in the game, only that there are 40 officially confirmed now and more to be revealed. Plus, it's a Smash game. It will sell millions upon millions of copies whether they say "over 40" or "over 50".

Those are some fair points. I guess we don't know for sure if they consider mii's to be three or not, but if they do, then yes it's already over 50. And it's also true that those responsible for the ad might not know everything about the game for the sake of preventing (more) leaks. But I wanted to bring it up as something to consider.

hopefulness = back to pre-POTD levels....

I wouldn't say that just yet. The new PotD is seriously a game changer.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

In one fell swoop Sakurai has smashed the leak apart and made us wonder again. For the first time in a week we don't actually know anymore.

 

[Shariq]

So I see that people are now starting to throw around the idea that the 3DS won't have the full roster available until the Wii U version launches. At first I remember pretty much everyone hated that idea but now people are accepting it? Anyway, it makes sense if they actually do that, but for some reason I don't really like the idea.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

God damn it Sakurai

I know you lurk here

show yourself

 

[Petrichor]

Those are some fair points. I guess we don't know for sure if they consider mii's to be three or not, but if they do, then yes it's already over 50. And it's also true that those responsible for the ad might not know everything about the game for the sake of preventing (more) leaks. But I wanted to bring it up as something to consider.

Fair enough. At this point we know so little that it's worth considering any possibility, even if it doesn't seem likely.

So I see that people are now starting to throw around the idea that the 3DS won't have the full roster available until the Wii U version launches. At first I remember pretty much everyone hated that idea but now people are accepting it? Anyway, it makes sense if they actually do that, but for some reason I don't really like the idea.

I personally don't mind the idea because I'd rather that Sakurai take the extra time to finish some characters and release them as downloads than just drop them completely. As long as they don't require you to buy the Wii U version or pay for characters in the base Wii U version then I think it's just a way of getting a few extra characters that we might not otherwise have had.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

So I see that people are now starting to throw around the idea that the 3DS won't have the full roster available until the Wii U version launches. At first I remember pretty much everyone hated that idea but now people are accepting it? Anyway, it makes sense if they actually do that, but for some reason I don't really like the idea.

Well, I can't say I like it, but as I'm getting both games and will be playing for months from now it's not really a big deal.

 

[DaDavid]

The Wii U version won't be coming out much later than like... a month or two after the 3DS version. Since way back around E3 times they mentioned that all they were really doing between that time and the 3DS launch was work on bugs and balance.

There is no way at all that the same amount of time (two months or so) will be spent on anything but debugging the much trickier, larger, HD-ier version of the game, so I seriously doubt they'll actually be developing characters at that point. If somehow the roster is limited until Wii U, it won't be for any awesome reason like that, it'll just be a promotional pay-wall thing.

 

[Dims]

The Wii U version won't be coming out much later than like... a month or two after the 3DS version. Since way back around E3 times they mentioned that all they were really doing between that time and the 3DS launch was work on bugs and balance.

There is no way at all that the same amount of time (two months or so) will be spent on anything but debugging the much trickier, larger, HD-ier version of the game, so I seriously doubt they'll actually be developing characters at that point. If somehow the roster is limited until Wii U, it won't be for any awesome reason like that, it'll just be a promotional pay-wall thing.

You're right. They won't be working on characters in that time. I believe they will do it purely for promotional reasons. They do not want the hype to die down before the Wii U launch. I believe the rest of the roster will be released as free DLC the months after 3DS launch and possibly a little after the Wii U launch as well.

 

[TheUltraDeino]

You're right. They won't be working on characters in that time. I believe they will do it purely for promotional reasons. They do not want the hype to die down before the Wii U launch. I believe the rest of the roster will be released as free DLC the months after 3DS launch and possibly a little after the Wii U launch as well.

Well we don't know what modes the Wii U will have. It could have a better mode than smash run for all we know.

 

[DaDavid]

You're right. They won't be working on characters in that time. I believe they will do it purely for promotional reasons. They do not want the hype to die down before the Wii U launch. I believe the rest of the roster will be released as free DLC the months after 3DS launch and possibly a little after the Wii U launch as well.

Depending on the characters that would rub me sooooo the wrong way... There has got to be some other Wii U exclusive mode or feature that would continue to keep hype high, or at least that Nintendo believes we care about as much as characters. After all, they've been hyping the hell out of Smash Run, and the large majority of us don't care for it the way they seem to think we do. So hopefully something similar will be their tactic, and not some roster limiting thing.

 

[Bassoonist]

I agree that there is no way they could develop characters in that time, however, I wouldn't be too shocked if they had some free DLC characters (for both games, of course) to accompany the Wii U version's release.

It is simply imperative that they have something major to build up hype for the Wii U version, and characters are by far the largest way to increase hype. In fact, I honestly have a hard time understanding how they'll manage it otherwise.

 

[fogbadge]

so there are more characters to come, i guess it wont be to long before we find out for sure

 

[Petrichor]

The Wii U version won't be coming out much later than like... a month or two after the 3DS version. Since way back around E3 times they mentioned that all they were really doing between that time and the 3DS launch was work on bugs and balance.

There is no way at all that the same amount of time (two months or so) will be spent on anything but debugging the much trickier, larger, HD-ier version of the game, so I seriously doubt they'll actually be developing characters at that point. If somehow the roster is limited until Wii U, it won't be for any awesome reason like that, it'll just be a promotional pay-wall thing.

They won't be developing characters at that point, true, but there's always the chance that they had to move into the 3DS version's testing/debug stage before certain characters could be finished. And if that did happen, I'd rather get the characters as DLC than have them struck off completely.

 

[DaDavid]

They won't be developing characters at that point, true, but there's always the chance that they had to move into the 3DS version's testing/debug stage before certain characters could be finished. And if that did happen, I'd rather get the characters as DLC than have them struck off completely.

I suppose that much is possible, but then in all reality we're talking about something entirely separate from the Wii U version. I do feel like Sakurai's isn' the type to do that though. Not that it's anything bad in my opinion, it's like you say, better to get them late than never, but I feel like he might think that people would dislike it.

 

[Petrichor]

I suppose that much is possible, but then in all reality we're talking about something entirely separate from the Wii U version. I do feel like Sakurai's isn' the type to do that though. Not that it's anything bad in my opinion, it's like you say, better to get them late than never, but I feel like he might think that people would dislike it.

He'd be right in a way, in that it could be a very unpopular move if handled badly. If they charge money for characters that are included in the Wii U version, or charge extortionate rates for DLC for both versions, then it would be an extremely unpopular move. Especially since Nintendo are the last of the big console manufacturers to truly shun those kinds of business practices. I don't see them doing those things though, so I hope Sakurai doesn't let stuff like that put him off the idea of DLC completely.

 

[DaDavid]

They've followed good models with FE, Pikmin, and Mario Kart 8 (seriously that price is ridiculously good for what the packs are giving people) so I doubt they'd pull it in a crappy way. Though this issue of two versions of one game does complicate things a bit.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

They've followed good models with FE, Pikmin, and Mario Kart 8 (seriously that price is ridiculously good for what the packs are giving people) so I doubt they'd pull it in a crappy way. Though this issue of two versions of one game does complicate things a bit.

Well, since it'd be tied to your Nintendo ID through the Eshop that should allow you to pay once and download for both, right?

 

[Fang3207]

I wouldn't feel right with DLC in Smash.
The main shtick is unlocking characters, buying them would feel unsettling for me.

 

[Werner Herzog]

Hey everybody, I've been lurking around here lately, obsessing over this roster like all the rest of you. Sorry for how long-winded this will be. For awhile I was convinced that the leak might just be the final roster. I'd be perfectly happy if it is, but the potential of those empty slots has been maddening. I've been trying out different combinations of newcomers to make it work and I just couldn't get anything to make sense without destroying the layout. There's simply no room for the likes of Ridley, Dixie, Impa or whoever without moving characters around, and the Japanese eShop roster strongly implied that every character should slide into place and that they can't just force someone else to move entirely.

In light of this PotD, however, I took another crack at the final CSS, using the assumed layout rules and applying them to the (admittedly extremely unreliable) leaker's suggestion that the last five were Impa, Ridley, Dixie, Mewtwo and Mach Rider. What's been bothering me about the leaked roster's layout is the placement of the three "clone" characters. It's an awkward spot for them, and the only logic I've been able to justify is that Sakurai is treating these characters as bonuses. It's an acknowledgment of their at-least-semi-clone status and a way to keep the grid from getting thrown off balance. Also importantly, all three characters are newcomers relative to Brawl. Dr.Mario was in Melee of course, but he's basically born-again this time around. So, applying this logic to the suggested five, I whipped this up:

So Mach Rider gets slotted next to DHD in NES revival zone and R.O.B gets bumped next to Ness, then things get weird. The idea is that Dixie is a clone (or even just semi-clone) of Diddy and Impa of Sheik. As for Ridley, I've long thought that if he made it in he would share some moves with Charizard. I have absolutely nothing to back this theory up, other than the logic of the two winged monsters sharing enough similarities to justify some copied design. As for Mewtwo, I put him there because it felt right, but he could easily be moved into the Pokemon lineup - knocking Mach Rider down to wherever - without ruining anything.

BUT HERE'S ANOTHER THEORY - every leak beyond the proven video roster has been false, and the supposed cuts everyone has been assuming are just educated guesses like any other. In that case you end up with this...

...And it looks pretty nice, right?. This will be a long two weeks.

 

[JLU51306]

The last thing I want to be is a downer, but the starting roster is 36. The grid used for 'Defeated Foes' in the All-Star Mode picture is 6x6, or 36 spaces. If you let it scroll, and go 6x7, it's 42, and one more row and it's 48, the exact number of characters in the ESRB roster.
If you go 6x9, and you've got 54. Not so bad? But the rumored full grid roster is 54, with one of those being a Random Select slot, so 53, 1 too many. If you squeeze in another character per row, and do 7x7, that's again, one slot too many for the ESRB roster as final, and 3 to little for the projected roster.

The ONLY way it'd work is if you did 7x8, giving you 56. Add in the three different Mii's and it all works out, save for a discrepancy with the primary CSS, where the Mii's may not even factor into. That particular discrepancy isn't world-shattering, as it's still possible they could share such a difference. Who knows.


Just don't set your hopes above 48, and if it's more, you're surprised, if it's 48, be happy!

 

[KingBroly]

I think that today's PotD confirms (to me, anyway) that you'll need both versions of the game to have a complete roster (and maybe stage layout). All-Star isn't locked behind its usual requirements anymore, and that means you can still play it without a complete roster. There's probably more unlocks and thinking between the two versions like this as well.

 

[Staccato]

I think that today's PotD confirms (to me, anyway) that you'll need both versions of the game to have a complete roster (and maybe stage layout). All-Star isn't locked behind its usual requirements anymore, and that means you can still play it without a complete roster. There's probably more unlocks and thinking between the two versions like this as well.

I hope this is not the case. It would be incredibly unfair towards those who don't have a WiiU or a 3DS.
Unless of course you don't mean we'll have to wait for the WiiU version to be out in order for the 3DS to be upgraded, in that case I'm totally okay about it.

 

[KingBroly]

I hope this is not the case. It would be incredibly unfair towards those who don't have a WiiU or a 3DS.
Unless of course you don't mean we'll have to wait for the WiiU version to be out in order for the 3DS to be upgraded, in that case I'm totally okay about it.

No, I think you'll need to connect the Wii U and 3DS versions to get specific unlocks to complete things, like All-Star Mode. Each version is essentially one half of a whole.

 

[DuckHuntFTW]

OMG OMG OMG video footage from japanese game on youtube...Mewtwo and Ridley are in holy crapola. Sure hope they dont take this down so people get to see it.

 

[Werner Herzog]

The last thing I want to be is a downer, but the starting roster is 36. The grid used for 'Defeated Foes' in the All-Star Mode picture is 6x6, or 36 spaces. If you let it scroll, and go 6x7, it's 42, and one more row and it's 48, the exact number of characters in the ESRB roster.
If you go 6x9, and you've got 54. Not so bad? But the rumored full grid roster is 54, with one of those being a Random Select slot, so 53, 1 too many. If you squeeze in another character per row, and do 7x7, that's again, one slot too many for the ESRB roster as final, and 3 to little for the projected roster.

The ONLY way it'd work is if you did 7x8, giving you 56. Add in the three different Mii's and it all works out, save for a discrepancy with the primary CSS, where the Mii's may not even factor into. That particular discrepancy isn't world-shattering, as it's still possible they could share such a difference. Who knows.


Just don't set your hopes above 48, and if it's more, you're surprised, if it's 48, be happy!

I'm definitely not trying to get my hopes up - if the roster we have is final, I'll still be ecstatic. That said, if the Miis are counted as one character, then they just replace that random button and you do ultimately have 54. One fight with one or all three of them would make more sense anyway - they're treated as one entity on the official site, and don't really justify three individual fights in a row wedged late into All-Star.

 

[KingBroly]

OMG OMG OMG video footage from japanese game on youtube...Mewtwo and Ridley are in holy crapola. Sure hope they dont take this down so people get to see it.

what? where's your proof?

 

[Bassoonist]

OMG OMG OMG video footage from japanese game on youtube...Mewtwo and Ridley are in holy crapola. Sure hope they dont take this down so people get to see it.

You can't troll us that easily, my friend.

 

[Graizen]

OMG OMG OMG video footage from japanese game on youtube...Mewtwo and Ridley are in holy crapola. Sure hope they dont take this down so people get to see it.

Link?

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

OMG OMG OMG video footage from japanese game on youtube...Mewtwo and Ridley are in holy crapola. Sure hope they dont take this down so people get to see it.

Stop playing with emotions.

 

[gamer8]

OMG OMG OMG video footage from japanese game on youtube...Mewtwo and Ridley are in holy crapola. Sure hope they dont take this down so people get to see it.

Seems legit.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

No, I think you'll need to connect the Wii U and 3DS versions to get specific unlocks to complete things, like All-Star Mode. Each version is essentially one half of a whole.

That's ridiculous. Not only did Sakurai confirm that both games would have the same roster, but to develop them specifically to require both for 100% completion goes against everything Nintendo stands for.

If you have something to back up this unlikely hypothesis I'd be more than happy to reconsider, but I cannot accept right now that the games would work like this.

 

[JLU51306]

I'm definitely not trying to get my hopes up - if the roster we have is final, I'll still be ecstatic. That said, if the Miis are counted as one character, then they just replace that random button and you do ultimately have 54. One fight with one or all three of them would make more sense anyway - they're treated as one entity on the official site, and don't really justify three individual fights in a row wedged late into All-Star.

Hmm. That is a good point. Though you will still have the discrepancy that 54 spaces are used in All-Star Mode, with the Mii's being the 54th, and having 53 playable slots in the CSS, where the Mii's appear. It would be odd for it to work like that, but certainly not impossible.

For what it's worth, I love the second roster layout you did. It's perfect!

 

[Staccato]

No, I think you'll need to connect the Wii U and 3DS versions to get specific unlocks to complete things, like All-Star Mode. Each version is essentially one half of a whole.

If this turns out to be the case, I won't buy the game, since I don't have a WiiU and I certainly won't buy it just for Smash.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Guys, we really need to stop with this whole business about Miis replacing the random button. Sakurai already confirmed the random button is here to stay (not to mention it's got a design and is traiditional in smash.)

 

[KingBroly]

That's ridiculous. Not only did Sakurai confirm that both games would have the same roster, but to develop them specifically to require both for 100% completion goes against everything Nintendo stands for.

If you have something to back up this unlikely hypothesis I'd be more than happy to reconsider, but I cannot accept right now that the games would work like this.

And how, specifically, would having both versions and linking them mean the games have a separate roster? I'm not saying that Wii U will have a different roster from 3DS and vice versa, but the unlocking method for these final 4-5 characters dependings on this linking between the two versions.

 

[JLU51306]

Guys, we really need to stop with this whole business about Miis replacing the random button. Sakurai already confirmed the random button is here to stay (not to mention it's got a design and is traiditional in smash.)

That wasn't really what was being discussed. It was that in the 'Defeated Foes' grid of All-Star Mode, a 6x9 grid would be 54, and Werner was just saying the 54th spot on the 'Defeated Foes' grid could be Mii's. Not that it would take up the random slot on the CSS.