Potential Roster/Stage Leak Thread

[SSBBphenom]

And again, I've already cautioned you guys on the fact that shot could be from a separate stage of unlocking.

Also, do you think maybe we're focusing on a little too much on the idea that the game is being planned to have DLC? While I don't doubt it will happen at some point, people seem to be thinking that it's being designed with specific plans already in mind.

It could've been from a different stage of unlocking and while nobody really seemed to believe my theory, I still feel that since; 1) it was review footage meant for the ESRB. 2) the CSS arrangement lacks Sakurai's attention to detail/OCD, and 3) any leaks that gave us solid info also point to/hint at 5 more characters means there's a good chance of something more. I know people don't want to think that you'd need to connect the two versions for extra characters, but if you take one of your biggest system sellers and put it on a handheld first that has a waaaay larger install base how do you convince them to upgrade? To buy an entirely new console and another version of the game they have already? HD and an extra mode or two? It'd be a huge incentive for people to buy both if you gave all the 3DS owners a great experience and then later announced cool new modes, connectivity, a few more characters and plenty of new stages, etc. in the definitive version. Get them hooked then move them to something stronger lol.

Regardless I think it's possible the characters in the CSS leak are all that launch on the 3DS version and then the rest either come from Wii U connectivity or just a title update post Wii U launch. Don't they usually have to include all on-disk unlockable characters in their ESRB footage? Plus Sakurai loves surprises...

 

[Stalkos]

If that method of unlocking certain characters through the connection between the 3DS and Wii U is real then I might not be getting the full roster since I don't a Wii U and will never be T^T

It won't be by connecting the 3DS and the WIi U version. They might release the characters together with the WiiU version launch, and you download them in the 3DS via DLC.

Sakurai said so many times that the roster on both version will be the same, so is very unlikely that there will be characters exclusive on one of the versions that needs connection to unlock.

 

[Mod Aure]

Actually, I'm thinking about it, and I believe the lock doesn't give evidence to DLC characters planned after launch, or DLC characters that are planned for DLC but not directly added to the game. It kind of creates a situation where you ask "When do I remove this lock?" with it going to remain there until they get tired of adding DLC characters.... That doesn't seem very likely.

On that note, it's also risky to add character data to the game already, but not activate it until X event. That would leave it vulnerable to hackers who crack open the game and find them, eliminating the hype they're trying to build with it.

I still believe that the PotD makes the 'still more 3DS characters' scenario the most likely one.

 

[strawhatninja]

Why is it even that relevant that you can play All Star before getting all characters? Even if it didn't work like that, I'd assume DLC characters wouldn't be needed to unlock it, that wouldn't make any sense. This pic of the day changes nofin. It makes the leak more believable for people that needed the extra convincing for some reason, I guess.

It was just an argument against why it would be hard to incorporate DLC into All-Star mode.

 

[GunGunW]

I love how the pessimists were the ones who were wrong this time around

 

[Smash G]

Unless I'm missing something there's no proof either way so no way to tell who's wrong. For all we know Nintendo sent the ESRB screenshots taken at different times. One before every character was unlocked and another after. We have no way of knowing (again, unless I'm missing something).

The roster picture COULD have been screenshot'd after all unlockable characters were made while the All-Star Mode could have been screenshot'd before. There's no time stamps . We have no way of knowing anything.

 

[Backgammon]

Unless I'm missing something there's no proof either way so no way to tell who's wrong. For all we know Nintendo sent the ESRB screenshots taken at different times. One before every character was unlocked and another after. We have no way of knowing (again, unless I'm missing something).

It's all compiled into one video. After being involved in game development myself, it is a LOT easier to take these gameplay shots in one go at the same time than it is to space it out over time.

 

[Smash G]

It's all compiled into one video. After being involved in game development myself, it is a LOT easier to take these gameplay shots in one go at the same time than it is to space it out over time.

Still isn't proof of anything. Just predicting odds.

 

[Gold_Jacobson]

Still isn't proof of anything. Just predicting odds.

You are correct that it isn't secure. Due to the possibility of spaced out pictures.

However this is news that does give hope to more characters. Given that All star mode can exist without having them all unlocked. This is a new variable that no own predicted due to all star mode assumingly working as it did in the past two games.

Now, there was much rejoicing.

 

[Trogdorbad]

I suppose you are either Unaware/Ignoring the fact that Metal Gear has NES roots. Rhythm Heaven had like what 2/3 forgettable games?

No, YOU'RE either unaware of or ignoring the fact that Metal Gear and Snake's Revenge on NES are both non-canon games that weren't even sanctioned by Kojima. Metal Gear has its roots on the MSX. The Gameboy Color game doesn't count either, for the aforementioned fact that Kojima had nothing to do with it and it isn't canon. The only reason Snake made it in was a combination of Twin Snakes and the fact that Sakurai is Kojima's idol. He was a one-shot. There's no changing that.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

No, YOU'RE either unaware of or ignoring the fact that Metal Gear and Snake's Revenge on NES are both non-canon games that weren't even sanctioned by Kojima. Metal Gear has its roots on the MSX. The Gameboy Color game doesn't count either, for the aforementioned fact that Kojima had nothing to do with it and it isn't canon. The only reason Snake made it in was a combination of Twin Snakes and the fact that Sakurai is Kojima's idol. He was a one-shot. There's no changing that.

Sakurai didn't have anything to do with most of the kirby games with Dark Matter but they are still canon in the Kirby universe

 

[TerminalMontage]

this pic of the day info pleases me

 

[Muster]

The cutting to Home run contest at the end of shulk's victory screen in the final leaked video pretty much proves that it was multiple compiled clips. If these clips are from one or more sessions is what matters, and we can't tell that.

 

[AustarusIV]

So what I'm getting from these comments is that some of you want the roster to be final? That's...kind of petty, to say the least.

So far, there hasn't been anything to convince me that the roster is final. Clone section? Then why aren't Toon Link, Ganondorf, and Falco with them? The pictures that were taken were spaced out over time? How exactly can you prove that? They're planned for DLC? It doesn't explain why there would be a padlock in the first place, considering that who knows how long it will actually be implemented.

I don't know how many characters are left to be revealed, as it could be from 3 to 5, or even more. But I'm inclined to believe that the remaining characters are Ridley, Dixie Kong, Mewtwo, Chorus Men, and an unknown newcomer (which I think might be from Zelda). They were part of the extended Ninka leak, and are at the heart of speculation because they were leaked before the Ninka/Vaanrose leaks were ever made known to the public. Their inclusion could also help balance out the roster space and make it fit nicely on the 3DS screen, so long as we moved the clones back to their respective franchises.

But, if it does turn out to be final, which I doubt, then I have to say that's a pretty barebones roster, considering the lack of Mewtwo and Ridley.

 

[SuperNintendoKid]

what if the dlc characters were events like pokemon?

 

[Trogdorbad]

Sakurai didn't have anything to do with most of the kirby games with Dark Matter but they are still canon in the Kirby universe

The difference is, Kojima has disowned the NES games. No such deal with Sakurai and Kirby games. The NES games don't even exist in Kojima's eyes.

 

[TerminalMontage]

what if the dlc characters were events like pokemon?

That would essentially be like on-disc DLC, the very worst kind. The kind most of us hate and do not want. Pokemon can get away with it because it's usually legendary pokemon or pokemon you can already access but with some special move or ability.

 

[SSBBphenom]

what if the dlc characters were events like pokemon?

If need be I would travel the world collecting each one lol

 

[SuperNintendoKid]

That would essentially be like on-disc DLC, the very worst kind. The kind most of us hate and do not want. Pokemon can get away with it because it's usually legendary pokemon or pokemon you can already access but with some special move or ability.

it was just a thought.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

So what I'm getting from these comments is that some of you want the roster to be final? That's...kind of petty, to say the least.

So far, there hasn't been anything to convince me that the roster is final. Clone section? Then why aren't Toon Link, Ganondorf, and Falco with them? The pictures that were taken were spaced out over time? How exactly can you prove that? They're planned for DLC? It doesn't explain why there would be a padlock in the first place, considering that who knows how long it will actually be implemented.

I don't know how many characters are left to be revealed, as it could be from 3 to 5, or even more. But I'm inclined to believe that the remaining characters are Ridley, Dixie Kong, Mewtwo, Chorus Men, and an unknown newcomer (which I think might be from Zelda). They were part of the extended Ninka leak, and are at the heart of speculation because they were leaked before the Ninka/Vaanrose leaks were ever made known to the public. Their inclusion could also help balance out the roster space and make it fit nicely on the 3DS screen, so long as we moved the clones back to their respective franchises.

But, if it does turn out to be final, which I doubt, then I have to say that's a pretty barebones roster, considering the lack of Mewtwo and Ridley.

Seriously, these are my thoughts as I read through some of these threads.
It really seems like some people are extraordinarily against having any other characters added to the roster for some strange reason.... They may say they support certain characters, but if they're trying to disprove them, then they seriously have a lack of knowledge on what "support" means.
It's rather selfish, imo, to try to make people feel as if their characters will not make it when Sakurai is literally throwing us a bone to inform us that it's not over yet, yet still, people are being too stubborn on the matter and refuse to believe so.

Point is: If you're saying the roster is finished, then you need to remove the Ridley, King K. Rool, and Mewtwo support banners from your signature, ASAP. >.>

 

[Beatness]

First of all, I don't think Sakurai would keep some characters unavailable until the Wii U launch or save space on the css screen for dlc characters. Sakurai likes to release full, complete games instead of hiding things for later. I think that those empty spaces on the css will be filled by launch of the 3ds version.

I think today's POTD was a way of Sakurai acknowledging the leak, but also saying that there are still more unknown characters to keep up the hype.

 

[KingBroly]

I think it's more he may have to do it and less he doesn't want to do it. Smash 4 is kind of on a timetable. It HAS TO release this holiday, this calendar year, not 2015. Not only for their systems' sake, but Amiibos as well.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

So far, there hasn't been anything to convince me that the roster is final. Clone section? Then why aren't Toon Link, Ganondorf, and Falco with them?

I can answer this question, since I have done so when explaining that Dark Pit most likely has his Dark Pit Staff in the leaked image of him.

Dark Pit, Dr. Mario, and Lucina have one distinct difference from other clone characters. Unlike Ganondorf/Toon Link/Falco/etc, Dark Pit/Dr. Mario/Lucina all could have been alternate costumes that were later remade into being full seperate characters.

Even then, this does not mean that these three characters would be full clones of their counterparts. At least in regards to Dark Pit anyways. Since Dark Pit most likely has his Dark Pit Staff, as I have pointed out, his moveset could differ from Pit's much like how Wolf's differs from Fox's. Currently, there is not enough evidence to prove or deny this, but the possibility is there.

Granted, alternate costume characters being grouped together would be kind of stupid...but it would explain why the other clone characters are not grouped with them.


In regards to today's PotD, anything can happen at this point. As for me, I am going to be cautiously optimistic about it. We do know that the leak is real, so we can definitely expect DHD/Bowser Jr/Dark Pit/Dr. Mario to be in the game, as well as the returning vets on the leaked CSS. In regards to any other possible character additions, I am hoping there's more. But I am going to hold my breath, and not get my hopes up too high. Plus, as it stands, I am happy with the leaked roster. (The CSS itself looks ugly though)

If I were to take a guess though, I would say that these characters have a very likely chance of showing up: Ridley, Chorus Men, Ice Climbers.

Unlike other characters, these characters have been hinted towards at least once. Ridley in particular having several "hints" in PotDs and in one instance "shown" in a direct. Chorus Men and Ice Climbers having Smash Run enemies (Sneaky Spirit and the Polar Bear). Ice Climbers specifically being mentioned by Sakurai himself, even though he said that there was complications for trying to add the characters to the 3DS version. And the pink stage on the leaked SSS possibly being a Rhythm Heaven stage, though it has also been speculated as a Mother stage.

I also get the feeling that Wolf and Lucas won't be cut, as well. The only other character I am hoping for after that is Mewtwo. Personal opinions aside, there's no real evidence to point towards the inclusion/absence of these characters at this point.


The good thing is that we won't have to wait much longer until all of our questions are answered

 

[TheAnvil]

DLC won't factor in to the lock. DLC characters aren't unlockables, when you buy them they'll be added to the roster straight away. The lock would be nonsensical in that scenario. The lock indicates that not all characters are unlocked. It's pretty straight forward.

We've already had plenty of evidence to suggest that the CSS screen wasn't the full, final roster. This is just the icing on the cake, word from the man himself.

I see today's POTD as Sakurai telling us that the leak wasn't the final roster.

 

[Thessbmzocker]

Actually, I'm thinking about it, and I believe the lock doesn't give evidence to DLC characters planned after launch, or DLC characters that are planned for DLC but not directly added to the game. It kind of creates a situation where you ask "When do I remove this lock?" with it going to remain there until they get tired of adding DLC characters.... That doesn't seem very likely.

On that note, it's also risky to add character data to the game already, but not activate it until X event. That would leave it vulnerable to hackers who crack open the game and find them, eliminating the hype they're trying to build with it.

I still believe that the PotD makes the 'still more 3DS characters' scenario the most likely one.

Hackers can not find out everything. No hacker has found out that there will be Mega Evolutions for all 3rd gen Starter. But as usual the main Pokémon game of the generation will be able to connect to the remake game in that generation. So X and Y need the models for all the new Megas. They will get them through Updates. Yes, they are just models with some animations, but what if Nintendo can do more than just update certain data and insert some datat, which wasn't in the game do begin with? Like new characters. I wouldn't say that hackers will find out everything...

 

[cochiseSMASH]

Dark Pit, Dr. Mario, and Lucina have one distinct difference from other clone characters. Unlike Ganondorf/Toon Link/Falco/etc, Dark Pit/Dr. Mario/Lucina all could have been alternate costumes that were later remade into being full seperate characters.

This right here is actually why I think we are getting more characters. We already know that characters will have custom moves, would it really have been that different if Marth had alternate moves that shift the balance of his sword attacks (with Lucina as an alternate costume)? IMO not really.

ZSS and Sheik made sense to separate out because they really are two unique characters. But separating out characters because they have slightly altered movesets really seems like overkill to me. The only reason I can think of to do it would be to fill out the 3DS CSS entirely without adding on the development cost of additional brand-new characters.

The other question I would have is when were these three finalized for being part of the game? I'd guess fairly late in the process, perhaps even to replace characters that were difficult to integrate (IC unfortunately) or that could not be balanced properly.

All speculation on my part, for sure, but I hope someone asks Sakurai these questions after the fact to shed more light on their creative process. I think a lot of the complaining would go away because I do believe the team goes above and beyond in their efforts and likely explored using most, if not all, of the characters people wanted here.

 

[Meta_Ridley]

So what I'm getting from these comments is that some of you want the roster to be final? That's...kind of petty, to say the least.

So far, there hasn't been anything to convince me that the roster is final. Clone section? Then why aren't Toon Link, Ganondorf, and Falco with them? The pictures that were taken were spaced out over time? How exactly can you prove that? They're planned for DLC? It doesn't explain why there would be a padlock in the first place, considering that who knows how long it will actually be implemented.

I don't know how many characters are left to be revealed, as it could be from 3 to 5, or even more. But I'm inclined to believe that the remaining characters are Ridley, Dixie Kong, Mewtwo, Chorus Men, and an unknown newcomer (which I think might be from Zelda). They were part of the extended Ninka leak, and are at the heart of speculation because they were leaked before the Ninka/Vaanrose leaks were ever made known to the public. Their inclusion could also help balance out the roster space and make it fit nicely on the 3DS screen, so long as we moved the clones back to their respective franchises.

But, if it does turn out to be final, which I doubt, then I have to say that's a pretty barebones roster, considering the lack of Mewtwo and Ridley.

I don't think many people want the roster to be final as much as they don't want to get disappointed like they did with Brawl. I dunno if you were around at that time, but when the 35-character roster with ROB, Wolf, and yet no Ridley or Mewtwo was leaked, everyone was absolutely convinced there were more characters, and were then crushed.

Somebody already answered the clone section part. As for the "spaced over time" argument, one image from the video shows only 11 trophies unlocked, whereas all of the other trophy images show 686.

5 is everyone's hope, given the encrypted 4chan leak, plus the would-be neatness of the CSS (not in terms of placement but in terms of filling out the screen). A full CSS has been thoroughly theorized by many people, and very few have come up with one where everything fits perfectly without bending any rules.

This roster is in no way barebones. As a huge Ridley and Mewtwo supporter (mostly Ridley), I would still say that this is by far the greatest roster we've had yet.

On the topic of Ridley supporters being one of the main groups to disprove things, part of that is we don't want to be easily fooled and look like idiots. We're not going to cling to some false hope. The "leaked" Ridley images we've seen have all been proven false. This possibility of more characters is one of the actual hopes we have.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

Unless I'm missing something there's no proof either way so no way to tell who's wrong. For all we know Nintendo sent the ESRB screenshots taken at different times. One before every character was unlocked and another after. We have no way of knowing (again, unless I'm missing something).

The roster picture COULD have been screenshot'd after all unlockable characters were made while the All-Star Mode could have been screenshot'd before. There's no time stamps . We have no way of knowing anything.

This. I feel like most of you guys aren't accepting the fact that the Allstar lock pick and the roster pic could have been taken at different times. Given how other pictures were clearly taken at different times, the lock proves absolutely nothing.

 

[Gold_Jacobson]

This. I feel like most of you guys aren't accepting the fact that the Allstar lock pick and the roster pic could have been taken at different times. Given how other pictures were clearly taken at different times, the lock proves absolutely nothing.

That is the biggest argument against Ridley and more characters.

It can't be countered but it is possible that the pics weren't taken at different times. So, on that, we just have to wait.

 

[ToddCam]

Not to get too pop-psychological on everybody, but it's pretty well known that generally we humans have a desire for other people to agree with us. If they don't, it somehow makes us feel like our opinions are invalidated. It's why religions are always warring against infidels.

On the topic of the leak and today's PotD, I am cautiously optimistic about the DLC hypothesis. I think that I am prepared for this to be the final roster, and accept the disappointment that comes with it while still being very excited.

One of the things I observe here is some sort of appeal to "fairness" when it comes to DLC, as if it were unfair to people who can't afford DLC or who lack internet access, or people who can't afford a Wii U if it requires connectivity. I don't know why anyone would think this is a reasonable argument. Nintendo is a for-profit company. Video games are a luxury item. There have been times I can't afford games, or comics, or access to TV. Why should Nintendo not make those things because somebody can't afford it? It's silly. The idea that forcing you to buy a second product for access to a complete product is not against what Nintendo stands for. The Pokémon games two versions are already evidence against such a claim.

 

[strawhatninja]

All I'm saying to the people who insist that the roster is final is there is more proof pointing toward there being more characters. Yes I know it isn't 100% proof because he could've taken it at a different time, but that is harder to believe because as others have mentioned it is easier to just upload everything at the same time. Of course you can believe whatever you want, but I just find the odds in the favor of more characters.

 

[König Nickerchen]

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nhygkmysy1wzenr/AADxX8yrwbuOg0eccQ1CCvZia?dl=0#/
Here you see it´s locked :D

 

[Meta_Ridley]

This. I feel like most of you guys aren't accepting the fact that the Allstar lock pick and the roster pic could have been taken at different times. Given how other pictures were clearly taken at different times, the lock proves absolutely nothing.

The majority of the trophy pictures were the 686 ones. 12 trophies, in fact, as opposed to the one (Barbara) that had only 11 unlocked (interestingly enough, Barbara's was also the only one with no text). If we can regard that as a valid sample, then statistically speaking it is very safe to say that the All-Star mode picture was at the same time as the CSS.

You can make the counter-argument that of course the trophies had to all be unlocked in order for the questionable ones to be viewed. But then we can also make the counter-argument that it is much easier to do everything at the same time, as opposed to doing it at different times. For all we know, the Barbara trophy could have been from an end-of-level loot screen, which would explain the lack of text as well as only 11 trophies.

There's also the fact that Sakurai chose to address this in the PotD. I guess we're not too bored with menus now, are we? :P I would like to think that the PotD alludes to more characters. But if it doesn't, oh well.

Edit: Here's a link to all of the pictures, btw: http://imgur.com/a/PzeCw#sDjoQb8

 

[Drclaw411]

I've been in class all day....I feel like I missed something. What's happening?

 

[Zango]

I almost believe at this point that Sakurai orchestrated the leak himself. I can't fathom any other reason why he would've released that POTD now; not just "acknowledging" the leak, but hyping it up. In essence, he's utilizing the leak to advertise, and that seems very un-Sakuraiish given his attitude towards leaks.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

The majority of the trophy pictures were the 686 ones. 12 trophies, in fact, as opposed to the one (Barbara) that had only 11 unlocked (interestingly enough, Barbara's was also the only one with no text). If we can regard that as a valid sample, then statistically speaking it is very safe to say that the All-Star mode picture was at the same time as the CSS.

You can make the counter-argument that of course the trophies had to all be unlocked in order for the questionable ones to be viewed. But then we can also make the counter-argument that it is much easier to do everything at the same time, as opposed to doing it at different times. For all we know, the Barbara trophy could have been from an end-of-level loot screen, which would explain the lack of text as well as only 11 trophies.

There's also the fact that Sakurai chose to address this in the PotD. I guess we're not too bored with menus now, are we? I would like to think that the PotD alludes to more characters. But if it doesn't, oh well.

Edit: Here's a link to all of the pictures, btw: http://imgur.com/a/PzeCw#sDjoQb8

Right, and I accounted for all of that. It just doesn't sit right with me to assume that the roster isn't final because it is likely that the pics were taken at the same time. I don't want to be that guy that wakes up on the 13th and finds out that there aren't more characters and have my expectations not met because of this whole fiasco.

 

[Pizzanigs]

I've been in class all day....I feel like I missed something. What's happening?

The PotD happened. Controversy at its finest.

 

[Dims]

I almost believe at this point that Sakurai orchestrated the leak himself. I can't fathom any other reason why he would've released that POTD now; not just "acknowledging" the leak, but hyping it up. In essence, he's utilizing the leak to advertise, and that seems very un-Sakuraiish given his attitude towards leaks.

That is one possibility.

I just figured he thought: why the heck not, someone is filling coal on the hype train for me and I might as well take control this time!
All aboard The Hype Train! CHOOCHOO!

 

[Zango]

That is one possibility.

I just figured he thought: why the heck not, someone is putting coal on the hype train for me and I might as well take control this time!
All aboard the Hype Train! CHOOCHOO!

It's just... too perfect.

As some people have mentioned, the ESRB gave Smash 4 its rating in late June; why would the leaker have been sitting on this for two and a half months?


Because we still had the Shulk reveal coming to amp people up, so we throw the leak just before to get people ready, then we give 'em the big shebang, let them fight amongst themselves until they kill their own hopes for more characters, and then...

There's just too many coincidences here.

 

[---]

It could be the final roster, but from what is known, the chance that it isn't is a better bet IMO. Same goes for the leaked stages.