Potential Roster/Stage Leak Thread

[BombKirby]

I actually doubt these trailers are made all that much in advance, so Dark Pit being teased could have been a perfect hint at the fact that, at that point, maybe they didn't even know if he was going to be put in or not.

I assume they only teased him because they weren't entirely sure on if he'd be a character or alt costume at the time. Similar to Lucina starting as a Marth alt.

 

[Brandon Merriman]

---> Bowser Jr. / Dr. Mario
---> King K. Rool / Impa
---> Ridley / Dark Pit
---> Duck Hunt

---> Chorus Men / Random

This would work too. You just need 5 more characters.

What's shulk doing up there by himself?

 

[Wyntir]

As far as I know, Hyrule Warriors is the first time we've seen Impa fighting. In Ocarina of Time she just teaches Zelda how to fight, but we don't see her do so. And in Skyward Sword she just creates a magical barrier to protect Zelda and Link.

They could create a moveset for her from scratch or just make her a Sheik clone. I hope it's the first one.

I can easily picture her using a staff with a blade on the end

 

[Capt. Butt Stallion]

What's shulk doing up there by himself?

Well trade him with whatever independent character you want. I thought with him being a swordsman it would be fitting to put him near the Fire Emblem guys.

 

[Brandon Merriman]

Well trade him with whatever independent character you want. I thought with him being a swordsman it would be fitting to put him near the Fire Emblem guys.

The lens of this analysis is the pattern of franchises fitting into a chronological order. Shulk fits in perfectly at the bottom where he was, not a third party but the last Nintendo character in chronological order by series.

 

[Wyntir]

Let's just include Bad Mr. Frosty...to hell with the big purple dimwit n call it a day

 

[Wobz]

Would it be likely for two trailers to come out before Japan's release?

 

[SmashBroski]

The lens of this analysis is the pattern of franchises fitting into a chronological order. Shulk fits in perfectly at the bottom where he was, not a third party but the last Nintendo character in chronological order by series.

If that's the case, then why would Falcon come after Pokemon?

Didn't F-Zero come out on the SNES before Pokemon Red/Blue?

 

[Drclaw411]

Guys, do we actually have any reason to think they'll be more characters than the CSS outside of some people thinking the CSS looks weird? I'd say that would be much more plausible if there were characters from the same series on the following row or something. But everybody is lined up correctly. I think it's safe to say CSS is the final roster. I don't like it either guys, but there isn't any evidence pointing anywhere else.

 

[Capt. Butt Stallion]

The lens of this analysis is the pattern of franchises fitting into a chronological order. Shulk fits in perfectly at the bottom where he was, not a third party but the last Nintendo character in chronological order by series.

Yeah, but there's no reason for the roster to be in chronological order.

 

[Brandon Merriman]

If that's the case, then why would Falcon come after Pokemon?

Didn't F-Zero come out on the SNES before Pokemon Red/Blue?

He's in the single character grab-bag along with all the others following the NES crew. You could ask, why isn't game and watch in the top left corner? Mario basically has to be in the top left corner, so there has to be a break in the pattern.

 

[ikemachine]

---> Bowser Jr. / Dr. Mario
---> King K. Rool / Impa
---> Ridley / Dark Pit
---> Duck Hunt

---> Chorus Men / Random

This would work too. You just need 5 more characters.

Replace Chorus Men with Wolf and i would be very happy very happy with this roster

 

[Capt. Butt Stallion]

Replace Chorus Men with Wolf and i would be very happy very happy with this roster

So would I! But there's evidence pointing towards Chorus Men, that's why I threw them in there.

Wolf was one of my favorite characters in Brawl, so yeah...

 

[Brandon Merriman]

Yeah, but there's no reason for the roster to be in chronological order.

You're absolutely right. This is just the way I'm looking at it based on what I feel is prevailing evidence based on the existing layout of the CSS and how it is establishing that pattern. There doesn't seem to be any vertical alignment like Brawl, and there is a precedent for Sakurai arranging things chronologically. For instance, the brawl css was arranged chronologically by character before any unlocks. Unless the final CSS will change dramatically to be out of order, which feels unlikely to me personally, this is reasonable.

 

[Dyguren]

Guys, do we actually have any reason to think they'll be more characters than the CSS outside of some people thinking the CSS looks weird? I'd say that would be much more plausible if there were characters from the same series on the following row or something. But everybody is lined up correctly. I think it's safe to say CSS is the final roster. I don't like it either guys, but there isn't any evidence pointing anywhere else.

There is no evidence pointing the opposite either, anything can be done

 

[Chihiro Fujisaki]

Here's a crazed analysis I did of a new build and the leak. Most probable result is Lucas, Ridley, and a new zelda and dk rep. Unless Sakurai adds another rep to a franchise we aren't expecting, this should be it.

you have restored my faith in my main man lucas.... thank u

 

[CaptainCC]

Ok so the text debunks were good on the Ridley thing and I have gone back to watch the 4/8 Direct. Pretty clear Ridley is a boss. It could still be a Sakurai troll and the boss was meta Ridley the whole time, but I'm now leaning heavily against the posibility of Ridley. Back to lurking for my DHD trailer or info. Once I get that, I may not open this forum for six years like last time.

*sinks to the depths to lurk*

 

[SCF]

Going off of Merriman's build with Ridley, I put in my two cents of how it might work out...

First, you move the Zelda reps over 1 which leaves spaces for a Donkey Kong Rep. This leaves one space at the end for a Zelda Rep and it is neat/organized. Next, you either need to find a character that can represent themselves or Metroid. If they represent themselves, they should go in order of release if possible. With this in mind, I moved the Metroid characters over and placed in Ice Climbers, which came out 1 year before Metroid. (Plus it is also fitting because Kid Icarus started as a game inspired by Metroid.)

The characters I decided to place in for a DK or Zelda rep may have a bit of bias (I put Groose in because why not...), but with this line of thinking... It is completely possible.

Also this is my first post on Smashboards. Hello people.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I like these analysises, but my only problem is how single franchise reps are being flung around all over the roster, throughout the Smash series they as well as all franchise reps have stayed consistently at the same spot on the roster in relation to other characters no matter how many are unlocked, you can't just throw G&W several rows down. In fact that's the primary reason I believe what we have is the final roster, G&W and Little Mac's positions would heavily skew the roster if anymore characters are put before them, it'd only create an even bigger mess than what we have. Sure, it could happen that G&W is just randomly thrown down, but that begs the question why he wasn't down there to begin with, in the past it has never been of concern that the roster looked like a mess when it was still being unlocked, so I don't consider it likely at all.

 

[Luigi-man]

Guys, do we actually have any reason to think they'll be more characters than the CSS outside of some people thinking the CSS looks weird? I'd say that would be much more plausible if there were characters from the same series on the following row or something. But everybody is lined up correctly. I think it's safe to say CSS is the final roster. I don't like it either guys, but there isn't any evidence pointing anywhere else.

Another reason is that the All-star mode was locked in the leak, so people still have a reason to belief the current CSS is not the final one.

 

[Brandon Merriman]

I like these analysises, but my only problem is how single franchise reps are being flung around all over the roster, throughout the Smash series they as well as all franchise reps have stayed consistently at the same spot on the roster in relation to other characters no matter how many are unlocked, you can't just throw G&W several rows down. In fact that's the primary reason I believe what we have is the final roster, G&W and Little Mac's positions would heavily skew the roster if anymore characters are put before them, it'd only create an even bigger mess than what we have. Sure, it could happen that G&W is just randomly thrown down, but that begs the question why he wasn't down there to begin with, in the past it has never been of concern that the roster looked like a mess when it was still being unlocked, so I don't consider it likely at all.

Brawl looks VERY messy halfway through unlocking because of the vertical alignment it ends up with. Similar to how this looks weird with little mac and g&w on the sides.

 

[Meta_Ridley]

Guys, do we actually have any reason to think they'll be more characters than the CSS outside of some people thinking the CSS looks weird? I'd say that would be much more plausible if there were characters from the same series on the following row or something. But everybody is lined up correctly. I think it's safe to say CSS is the final roster. I don't like it either guys, but there isn't any evidence pointing anywhere else.

We still have the possibility of All-Star Mode being locked, what's left of the Gematsu leak (Chorus Men), and the possibility that not all of the characters were finished (seeing as the ESRB footage was from months ago).

Of course, All-Star Mode can go either way since we don't know the chronology of the video, and Gematsu could be wrong or had old information. As for the last point, some have argued that all characters would have been done by then, but I don't think that's necessarily the case. There's a chance that a few more characters were included or at least worked on, that hackers will find bits and pieces of characters a la Brawl's Forbidden 7 (heck, Brawl's Forbidden 7 could point to Dixie Kong, though I would think that Sakurai would've revealed her by now).

I'm still hopeful that we'll have some more, or even some DLC later on. Either way, I'm totally content with the roster. If Ridley's a stage boss, I'm cool with it. We'll see more of him than we did in Brawl, at least.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Brawl looks VERY messy halfway through unlocking because of the vertical alignment it ends up with. Similar to how this looks weird with little mac and g&w on the sides.

This roster is aligned horizontally though, so it's not really comparable. G&W and Little Mac can't just jump across half the roster, they have to stay relative to the other characters, G&W will always need to be between Wario and DK and Little Mac can't jump away from Meta Knight and Fox. Characters can come in between Little Mac and Fox of course, but he'll always have to be placed before Fox and after Meta Knight, simple as that, otherwise his roster placement would have been different right from the start.

 

[Wobz]

I like these analysises, but my only problem is how single franchise reps are being flung around all over the roster, throughout the Smash series they as well as all franchise reps have stayed consistently at the same spot on the roster in relation to other characters no matter how many are unlocked, you can't just throw G&W several rows down. In fact that's the primary reason I believe what we have is the final roster, G&W and Little Mac's positions would heavily skew the roster if anymore characters are put before them, it'd only create an even bigger mess than what we have. Sure, it could happen that G&W is just randomly thrown down, but that begs the question why he wasn't down there to begin with, in the past it has never been of concern that the roster looked like a mess when it was still being unlocked, so I don't consider it likely at all.

It just dosn't seem to be the final roster with All Star Mode locked

 

[Brandon Merriman]

Going off of Merriman's build with Ridley, I put in my two cents of how it might work out...

First, you move the Zelda reps over 1 which leaves spaces for a Donkey Kong Rep. This leaves one space at the end for a Zelda Rep and it is neat/organized. Next, you either need to find a character that can represent themselves or Metroid. If they represent themselves, they should go in order of release if possible. With this in mind, I moved the Metroid characters over and placed in Ice Climbers, which came out 1 year before Metroid. (Plus it is also fitting because Kid Icarus started as a game inspired by Metroid.)

The characters I decided to place in for a DK or Zelda rep may have a bit of bias (I put Groose in because why not...), but with this line of thinking... It is completely possible.

Also this is my first post on Smashboards. Hello people.

I like this idea, but if we're going to put IC up there, we've got to re-arrange falcon too.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

It just dosn't seem to be the final roster with All Star Mode locked

That's really the only thing that implies otherwise yeah, but it's possible that the trigger to activate All-Star has been skipped over by unlocking the whole roster via debugging. Of course that's just a guess, mine is only as good as anyone's on that front.

 

[Wobz]

This roster is aligned horizontally though, so it's not really comparable. G&W and Little Mac can't just jump across half the roster, they have to stay relative to the other characters, G&W will always need to be between Wario and DK and Little Mac can't jump away from Meta Knight and Fox. Characters can come in between Little Mac and Fox of course, but he'll always have to be placed before Fox and after Meta Knight, simple as that, otherwise his roster placement would have been different right from the start.

Pikachu jumped to the other side of the roster in Melee after unlocking Pichu

 

[SCF]

I just put in Ice Climbers to fill the 1 character gap in between either Zelda and Metroid or Metroid and Kid Icarus. Either that or adding another Metroid character is possible... But I think we have the only ones that are nearly important enough.

 

[Brandon Merriman]

This roster is aligned horizontally though, so it's not really comparable. G&W and Little Mac can't just jump across half the roster, they have to stay relative to the other characters, G&W will always need to be between Wario and DK and Little Mac can't jump away from Meta Knight and Fox. Characters can come in between Little Mac and Fox of course, but he'll always have to be placed before Fox and after Meta Knight, simple as that, otherwise his roster placement would have been different right from the start.

That stands to reason. I hadn't thought of G&W sitting by himself because he comes first chronologically too, so coming after mario is OK in my book too. I might revisit this with that in mind. Little Mac still boggles me though, as well as the characters that look out of place at the bottom, lucina dr mario and dark pit.

I was convinced mac is only there because he starts there, not being unlockable and just fitting there aesthetically at the beginning. He'a not chronologically fitting like g&w.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Pikachu jumped to the other side of the roster in Melee after unlocking Pichu

Yeah, but that's the only time that's happen, and that's arguably only because the clones had to be at the sides of the roster to indicate that they're just that, so of course Pikachu had to accompany his buddy at some point. There's not really anything like that this time.

That stands to reason. I hadn't thought of G&W sitting by himself because he comes first chronologically too, so coming after mario is OK in my book too. I might revisit this with that in mind. Little Mac still boggles me though, as well as the characters that look out of place at the bottom, lucina dr mario and dark pit.

I was convinced mac is only there because he starts there, not being unlockable and just fitting there aesthetically at the beginning. He'a not chronologically fitting like g&w.

Actually, Little Mac does fit in chronologically. Multiple rep franchises and single rep franchises are seperated in that regard, they're only placed chronologically in relation to each other, so Mario only has to stay in place in relation to DK, Zelda, Metroid, etc, while G&W has to be before Little Mac, DHD, R.O.B, etc. Little Mac made his debut in arcades in 1984, so it fits that he's after G&W but before DHD. Only exceptions to this rule are of course the 3rd parties and clones.

 

[KokiriKory]

Everybody's going bonkers and I love it

This is the pre-release stage where people are in their garage with the charts and newspaper clippings up on the wall, strings tying clues together

The yellow king in carcosa man!

 

[Meta_Ridley]

Yeah, but that's the only time that's happen, and that's arguably only because the clones had to be at the sides of the roster to indicate that they're just that, so of course Pikachu had to accompany his buddy at some point. There's not really anything like that this time.



Actually, Little Mac does fit in chronologically. Multiple rep franchises and single rep franchises are seperated in that regard, they're only placed chronologically in relation to each other, so Mario only has to stay in place in relation to DK, Zelda, Metroid, etc, while G&W has to be before Little Mac, DHD, R.O.B, etc. Little Mac made his debut in arcades in 1984, so it fits that he's after G&W but before DHD. Only exceptions to this rule are of course the 3rd parties and clones.

Maybe we'll get a Baby Yoshi which moves Yoshi over :P

 

[Rakath]

And the issue with this completely rearranging of the roster to try to make your characters fit is the CSS from Melee was never that complex, and the Brawl one was a mess because the order never changed.

Alright, the roster makes no sense, because we're looking at a 8x3 rendition of a roster that is suppose to make sense as a 9x4. But Pikachu doesn't jump after Diddy Kong, and nobody is sliding around like the one example in the Melee Roster (Pikachu being placed between Mario and Peach, so that when Luigi or Pichu unlocked he dropped to the bottom row). If they planned to shift around the roster the way @ Brandon Merriman seems to be suggesting, they would have grouped the franchises differently to start with (as we can see in the Wii-U roster, which is grouped differently from the 3DS version).

I'd love to see Ridley in, but the evidence doesn't support it.

If the roster is (mostly) Chronological, the only breaks to that are when it comes to row allignments and keeping casts together. The starting roster screen doesn't break any casts up. There might be room for shifting franchises around if we see intermediary unlocking shifts (Little Mac jumping to the top row when you unlock a Mario character so DK and Diddy are together). But that's a lot of coding to work into it.

 

[Stalkos]

Oooh boy, I see many suggested roster, and all seems very good, but none of them are perfect.

Some adds Lucas, but there is no Wolf. Other have IC, but no Lucas. All of them have Ridley. Our bias is showing up, and with reason I guess.

I'm thinking that there will be no happy ending for everyone after the full roster is revealed (it there is more to show).

But then again, this will last for 1~2 months when everyone is astonished with DHD or maining Dark Pit to remember the downs.

 

[Sehnsucht]

Everybody's going bonkers and I love it

This is the pre-release stage where people are in their garage with the charts and newspaper clippings up on the wall, strings tying clues together

The yellow king in carcosa man!

The tape Marty watched was the ESRB leak video.

 

[KokiriKory]

The tape Marty watched was the ESRB leak video.

It's been a while since I used this one:

roflmfao!

 

[Brandon Merriman]

And the issue with this completely rearranging of the roster to try to make your characters fit is the CSS from Melee was never that complex, and the Brawl one was a mess because the order never changed.

Alright, the roster makes no sense, because we're looking at a 8x3 rendition of a roster that is suppose to make sense as a 9x4. But Pikachu doesn't jump after Diddy Kong, and nobody is sliding around like the one example in the Melee Roster (Pikachu being placed between Mario and Peach, so that when Luigi or Pichu unlocked he dropped to the bottom row). If they planned to shift around the roster the way @ Brandon Merriman seems to be suggesting, they would have grouped the franchises differently to start with (as we can see in the Wii-U roster, which is grouped differently from the 3DS version).

I'd love to see Ridley in, but the evidence doesn't support it.

If the roster is (mostly) Chronological, the only breaks to that are when it comes to row allignments and keeping casts together. The starting roster screen doesn't break any casts up. There might be room for shifting franchises around if we see intermediary unlocking shifts (Little Mac jumping to the top row when you unlock a Mario character so DK and Diddy are together). But that's a lot of coding to work into it.

Part of my reasoning is the jump from the first picture in my graphic from a recent build to the leak. You see the characters move the way I described, left to right always.

 

[Brandon Merriman]

Actually, Little Mac does fit in chronologically. Multiple rep franchises and single rep franchises are seperated in that regard, they're only placed chronologically in relation to each other, so Mario only has to stay in place in relation to DK, Zelda, Metroid, etc, while G&W has to be before Little Mac, DHD, R.O.B, etc. Little Mac made his debut in arcades in 1984, so it fits that he's after G&W but before DHD. Only exceptions to this rule are of course the 3rd parties and clones.

Interesting theory, but I'm still really unsatisfied leaving clones sitting at the bottom.

 

[EmceeEspio]

Oh we're, uh. We're talking about the select screen and things that impact the roster... at the uh, same time.

*Ahem* so, how about that Ridley Leak?

 

[TerminalMontage]

Oh we're, uh. We're talking about the select screen and things that impact the roster... at the uh, same time.

*Ahem* so, how about that Ridley Leak?

What leak?