VollrathFGC
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2018
- Messages
- 28
So as you all know, balance patch 2.0 came out last night, adding Piranha Plant and some Lucas Discord admin finding the All Star Save Data Glitch (it would be a Lucas main, i know because I somewhat use Lucas too). But also brought Balance changes to a majority of the cast, so I'm going to give my impression of each character's buffs and nerfs, feel free to discuss in the comments as i would like to see what the conversations lead to. Also keep in mind that I play DBFZ, and that got a huge patch too changing up the mechanics, so my mind isn't exactly 100% on Smash at the moment.
btw before i start, i'm going off of this thread so go check it out: https://smashboards.com/threads/v2-0-0-patch-notes.474149/
Bayo: while not the best buff, these kinds of buffs end up going a long way, she just needs a kill move and she'll be decent as i've mentioned many times before
Bowser: some damage buffs and an increase to dsmash's knockback, fairly solid buffs here i'm not complaining. Plus up b hits multiple times more consistently, I live in STL and while I haven't gone on Twitter basically at all for the past day, I'm sure Quilly is ecstatic rn.
Cloud: While finishing touch isn't the best move in this game, I completely support at least trying to make it usable in this game, won't be much but you'll see it more used as time goes by
Corrin: nothing too special for Mr. and Mrs. Cardboard, just some autocancel buffs
Diddy: still can't really kill, the autocancel doesn't help him one bit
DK: he's still pretty much the same, though Fair can be kinda scary sometimes, so that's going to be big long term I feel
Duck Hunt: yeah i knew this was coming, once you get hit by clay pigeon around a quarter from the ledge, you were pretty much dead, i feel he'll still be solid outside of this though, more just removing a powerful option rather than nerfing everything
Ganondorf: autocancel fair i feel is going to be pretty good in general, not just long term (which I've noticed I'm going to mention a lot as this goes on as this is already the 3rd or 4th time i've said it) but right now as well, Ganondorf players are very committed to this bad character, even if he's fun as hell nobody good is going to use him unless it's a character knowledge pick, which you're going to see a lot of in this game
Greninja: yeah these make sense, get rid of the royzone on his dsmash, that's always a plus that they noticed that, even if I don't know anybody that did know about it. Removing the autocancel on a moving platform/slant also makes complete sense
Ice Climbers: improved Nana's AI, very nice, and made it easier to grab ledge using up b. Some quality of life changes for sure
Ike: ngl this is 100% Chrom's fault, I'll get to him later but overall this doesn't really affect Ike, it's still going to be a momentum cancelling move for him
Incineroar: easily the most buffed character in the patch, he comes out of this a winner for sure (and i hate to say that cause i hate going against grapplers... yay), he can actually edgeguard now too with his buffed recovery, lock outs being shortened, etc.
Inkling: literally just became a little more honest, and i thought they were already a pretty honestly character
Isabelle: shocked it was only nair that got "fixed" but hey i can still mess around with assist trophies if i'm bored
Puff:puff bair is back puff bair is back puff bair is back puff bair is back but in all seriousness, was pretty good for her, especially bair, the only reason it isn't as good as in Melee is because it turns her around, which is for the better, trust me
Dedede: honestly i never had a problem with his gordos, so this honestly is in my favor, though i do know people that struggled to hit them back at times, more of a
'git gud' nerf imo
K. Rool: honestly i never had a problem with him cause I always ended up playing against him as Toon, so I just zone him out and if he tried to canon me i just threw something at him, makes it easier for me ig, overall pretty good matchup for me, now even better. I do 100% agree with the up b hitbox getting shrunk down though
Kirby: don't really feel this is going to get him out of bottom tier but he has a decent tool in ftilt now
Link: you will honestly never use the double arrow thing. But it's a nice touch for casuals and show offs, so that's hype. And I only ever see up air get used for catching landings
Little Mac: Useless buffs still worst in the game imo
Lucario: in fighting games there's always the character that gets overly nerfed for no seemingly good reason, like recently in DBFZ, Android 21 had a Touch of Death (traditional fighter version of a 0-death) so instead of just taking out the ToD, they nerfed her in general, cause the ToD you could get immediately as soon as the match started. But anyways, I feel Lucario got this end of the stick, cause nobody was really doing well with Lucario and the smashes out of Aura Sphere seemed awesome, nope they're gone. He's still solid but it just didn't seem right to me
Lucas: basically got nothing worth talking about
Luigi: his 0-death got nerfed, but Mr. Concon immediately found another, though he got other kill moves buffed in case you miss the 0-death window
Mario: Dash attack got buffed by now hitting at a better angle, bad recoveries rejoice
Mega Man: i had no idea this was a thing, but now that I look at what he could do, good nerf that makes complete sense
Mewtwo: Quality of life changes and dash attack's shieldstun got nerfed, pretty good changes
Mii Brawler: ok i know nothing about Brawler, but they look like good changes to me
Mii Gunner: Ok that looks like it could be a scary buff if short hop fair autocancels now, tbd on how good this is
G&W: meh, nothing eye-popping
Ness: same as G&W
Pac: confusing wording but i THINK it means when fruit is thrown it stays out for longer, but idk
Palu: quality of life changes, both for and against Palu since you don't have to sit in a long combo and get tilted
Peach/Daisy: fixed some jank with umbrella, a good nerf/buff ig
Pika/Pichu: pummels got super buffed good for getting someone into a certain % range to kill
Zard: didn't get what he needed, he needs to have fair autocancel from a short hop, instead he got more kill power, which is nice but necessary
Pit: makes sense but doesn't matter in main events
Ridley: just some quality of life changes, you tired of me saying this yet?
R.O.B.: Makes 100% sense I'm alright with this buff, but something that isn't listed is now Marth, Roy, Lucina, and Chrom can grab him out of a dash grab now
Robin: i think it means he grabs the ledge faster when it's behind him, but idk
Rosa: some good buffs in there, makes her more usable for sure
Chrom: I've already said I don't think Chrom is going to last long in the meta, and today is the day he just kinda goes, the thing that made him as good as he was is gone, now like in Awakening, Lucina will proceed to do everything he currently can, but better. It's a shame cause I love Chrom, he's that guy that's constantly making dad jokes, he's great.
Ryu/Ken: these make sense honestly
Samus/Dark Samus: changes that i feel more suit Ultimate's meta along with a Missile that travels farther, so you can now use it to edgeguard and stuff
Sheik: sadly still sucks as nothing too drastic got added to her kit
Shulk: kinda feel this one is a nerf, fair>smash art>uptilt very well might be gone
Snake: that's a pretty big buff imo, even if it's just for a frame it's pretty big cause that's a really good kill option
Sonic: quality of life changes
Toon: quality of life changes
Wario: nothing too significant
Yoshi: nothing too significant
ZSS: like Lucario, she kinda got the short end of the 'not necessary nerfs'
Alright so that's every character, while i don't feel too much was changed, enough was to influence the meta for a good chunk of characters
Although none of this really affects me, I use Lucina and Toon for certain matchups, mostly big boys. The only matchup that really affects me that I play often is Inkling since I can now just hit Roller and cancel it out instead of Jumping in order to get out of there, or shielding and trying to shield grab. Oh, also the R.O.B. thing since I can dash grab him now
What are your opinions on the patch? I'd like to discuss and maybe some things that i think could be insignificant could actually really affect the game
btw before i start, i'm going off of this thread so go check it out: https://smashboards.com/threads/v2-0-0-patch-notes.474149/
Bayo: while not the best buff, these kinds of buffs end up going a long way, she just needs a kill move and she'll be decent as i've mentioned many times before
Bowser: some damage buffs and an increase to dsmash's knockback, fairly solid buffs here i'm not complaining. Plus up b hits multiple times more consistently, I live in STL and while I haven't gone on Twitter basically at all for the past day, I'm sure Quilly is ecstatic rn.
Cloud: While finishing touch isn't the best move in this game, I completely support at least trying to make it usable in this game, won't be much but you'll see it more used as time goes by
Corrin: nothing too special for Mr. and Mrs. Cardboard, just some autocancel buffs
Diddy: still can't really kill, the autocancel doesn't help him one bit
DK: he's still pretty much the same, though Fair can be kinda scary sometimes, so that's going to be big long term I feel
Duck Hunt: yeah i knew this was coming, once you get hit by clay pigeon around a quarter from the ledge, you were pretty much dead, i feel he'll still be solid outside of this though, more just removing a powerful option rather than nerfing everything
Ganondorf: autocancel fair i feel is going to be pretty good in general, not just long term (which I've noticed I'm going to mention a lot as this goes on as this is already the 3rd or 4th time i've said it) but right now as well, Ganondorf players are very committed to this bad character, even if he's fun as hell nobody good is going to use him unless it's a character knowledge pick, which you're going to see a lot of in this game
Greninja: yeah these make sense, get rid of the royzone on his dsmash, that's always a plus that they noticed that, even if I don't know anybody that did know about it. Removing the autocancel on a moving platform/slant also makes complete sense
Ice Climbers: improved Nana's AI, very nice, and made it easier to grab ledge using up b. Some quality of life changes for sure
Ike: ngl this is 100% Chrom's fault, I'll get to him later but overall this doesn't really affect Ike, it's still going to be a momentum cancelling move for him
Incineroar: easily the most buffed character in the patch, he comes out of this a winner for sure (and i hate to say that cause i hate going against grapplers... yay), he can actually edgeguard now too with his buffed recovery, lock outs being shortened, etc.
Inkling: literally just became a little more honest, and i thought they were already a pretty honestly character
Isabelle: shocked it was only nair that got "fixed" but hey i can still mess around with assist trophies if i'm bored
Puff:
Dedede: honestly i never had a problem with his gordos, so this honestly is in my favor, though i do know people that struggled to hit them back at times, more of a
'git gud' nerf imo
K. Rool: honestly i never had a problem with him cause I always ended up playing against him as Toon, so I just zone him out and if he tried to canon me i just threw something at him, makes it easier for me ig, overall pretty good matchup for me, now even better. I do 100% agree with the up b hitbox getting shrunk down though
Kirby: don't really feel this is going to get him out of bottom tier but he has a decent tool in ftilt now
Link: you will honestly never use the double arrow thing. But it's a nice touch for casuals and show offs, so that's hype. And I only ever see up air get used for catching landings
Little Mac: Useless buffs still worst in the game imo
Lucario: in fighting games there's always the character that gets overly nerfed for no seemingly good reason, like recently in DBFZ, Android 21 had a Touch of Death (traditional fighter version of a 0-death) so instead of just taking out the ToD, they nerfed her in general, cause the ToD you could get immediately as soon as the match started. But anyways, I feel Lucario got this end of the stick, cause nobody was really doing well with Lucario and the smashes out of Aura Sphere seemed awesome, nope they're gone. He's still solid but it just didn't seem right to me
Lucas: basically got nothing worth talking about
Luigi: his 0-death got nerfed, but Mr. Concon immediately found another, though he got other kill moves buffed in case you miss the 0-death window
Mario: Dash attack got buffed by now hitting at a better angle, bad recoveries rejoice
Mega Man: i had no idea this was a thing, but now that I look at what he could do, good nerf that makes complete sense
Mewtwo: Quality of life changes and dash attack's shieldstun got nerfed, pretty good changes
Mii Brawler: ok i know nothing about Brawler, but they look like good changes to me
Mii Gunner: Ok that looks like it could be a scary buff if short hop fair autocancels now, tbd on how good this is
G&W: meh, nothing eye-popping
Ness: same as G&W
Pac: confusing wording but i THINK it means when fruit is thrown it stays out for longer, but idk
Palu: quality of life changes, both for and against Palu since you don't have to sit in a long combo and get tilted
Peach/Daisy: fixed some jank with umbrella, a good nerf/buff ig
Pika/Pichu: pummels got super buffed good for getting someone into a certain % range to kill
Zard: didn't get what he needed, he needs to have fair autocancel from a short hop, instead he got more kill power, which is nice but necessary
Pit: makes sense but doesn't matter in main events
Ridley: just some quality of life changes, you tired of me saying this yet?
R.O.B.: Makes 100% sense I'm alright with this buff, but something that isn't listed is now Marth, Roy, Lucina, and Chrom can grab him out of a dash grab now
Robin: i think it means he grabs the ledge faster when it's behind him, but idk
Rosa: some good buffs in there, makes her more usable for sure
Chrom: I've already said I don't think Chrom is going to last long in the meta, and today is the day he just kinda goes, the thing that made him as good as he was is gone, now like in Awakening, Lucina will proceed to do everything he currently can, but better. It's a shame cause I love Chrom, he's that guy that's constantly making dad jokes, he's great.
Ryu/Ken: these make sense honestly
Samus/Dark Samus: changes that i feel more suit Ultimate's meta along with a Missile that travels farther, so you can now use it to edgeguard and stuff
Sheik: sadly still sucks as nothing too drastic got added to her kit
Shulk: kinda feel this one is a nerf, fair>smash art>uptilt very well might be gone
Snake: that's a pretty big buff imo, even if it's just for a frame it's pretty big cause that's a really good kill option
Sonic: quality of life changes
Toon: quality of life changes
Wario: nothing too significant
Yoshi: nothing too significant
ZSS: like Lucario, she kinda got the short end of the 'not necessary nerfs'
Alright so that's every character, while i don't feel too much was changed, enough was to influence the meta for a good chunk of characters
Although none of this really affects me, I use Lucina and Toon for certain matchups, mostly big boys. The only matchup that really affects me that I play often is Inkling since I can now just hit Roller and cancel it out instead of Jumping in order to get out of there, or shielding and trying to shield grab. Oh, also the R.O.B. thing since I can dash grab him now
What are your opinions on the patch? I'd like to discuss and maybe some things that i think could be insignificant could actually really affect the game
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