Post-Patch Day 1 Analysis

[VollrathFGC]

So as you all know, balance patch 2.0 came out last night, adding Piranha Plant and some Lucas Discord admin finding the All Star Save Data Glitch (it would be a Lucas main, i know because I somewhat use Lucas too). But also brought Balance changes to a majority of the cast, so I'm going to give my impression of each character's buffs and nerfs, feel free to discuss in the comments as i would like to see what the conversations lead to. Also keep in mind that I play DBFZ, and that got a huge patch too changing up the mechanics, so my mind isn't exactly 100% on Smash at the moment.

btw before i start, i'm going off of this thread so go check it out: https://smashboards.com/threads/v2-0-0-patch-notes.474149/

Bayo: while not the best buff, these kinds of buffs end up going a long way, she just needs a kill move and she'll be decent as i've mentioned many times before

Bowser: some damage buffs and an increase to dsmash's knockback, fairly solid buffs here i'm not complaining. Plus up b hits multiple times more consistently, I live in STL and while I haven't gone on Twitter basically at all for the past day, I'm sure Quilly is ecstatic rn.

Cloud: While finishing touch isn't the best move in this game, I completely support at least trying to make it usable in this game, won't be much but you'll see it more used as time goes by

Corrin: nothing too special for Mr. and Mrs. Cardboard, just some autocancel buffs

Diddy: still can't really kill, the autocancel doesn't help him one bit

DK: he's still pretty much the same, though Fair can be kinda scary sometimes, so that's going to be big long term I feel

Duck Hunt: yeah i knew this was coming, once you get hit by clay pigeon around a quarter from the ledge, you were pretty much dead, i feel he'll still be solid outside of this though, more just removing a powerful option rather than nerfing everything

Ganondorf: autocancel fair i feel is going to be pretty good in general, not just long term (which I've noticed I'm going to mention a lot as this goes on as this is already the 3rd or 4th time i've said it) but right now as well, Ganondorf players are very committed to this bad character, even if he's fun as hell nobody good is going to use him unless it's a character knowledge pick, which you're going to see a lot of in this game

Greninja: yeah these make sense, get rid of the royzone on his dsmash, that's always a plus that they noticed that, even if I don't know anybody that did know about it. Removing the autocancel on a moving platform/slant also makes complete sense

Ice Climbers: improved Nana's AI, very nice, and made it easier to grab ledge using up b. Some quality of life changes for sure

Ike: ngl this is 100% Chrom's fault, I'll get to him later but overall this doesn't really affect Ike, it's still going to be a momentum cancelling move for him

Incineroar: easily the most buffed character in the patch, he comes out of this a winner for sure (and i hate to say that cause i hate going against grapplers... yay), he can actually edgeguard now too with his buffed recovery, lock outs being shortened, etc.

Inkling: literally just became a little more honest, and i thought they were already a pretty honestly character

Isabelle: shocked it was only nair that got "fixed" but hey i can still mess around with assist trophies if i'm bored

Puff: puff bair is back puff bair is back puff bair is back puff bair is back but in all seriousness, was pretty good for her, especially bair, the only reason it isn't as good as in Melee is because it turns her around, which is for the better, trust me

Dedede: honestly i never had a problem with his gordos, so this honestly is in my favor, though i do know people that struggled to hit them back at times, more of a
'git gud' nerf imo

K. Rool: honestly i never had a problem with him cause I always ended up playing against him as Toon, so I just zone him out and if he tried to canon me i just threw something at him, makes it easier for me ig, overall pretty good matchup for me, now even better. I do 100% agree with the up b hitbox getting shrunk down though

Kirby: don't really feel this is going to get him out of bottom tier but he has a decent tool in ftilt now

Link: you will honestly never use the double arrow thing. But it's a nice touch for casuals and show offs, so that's hype. And I only ever see up air get used for catching landings

Little Mac: Useless buffs still worst in the game imo

Lucario: in fighting games there's always the character that gets overly nerfed for no seemingly good reason, like recently in DBFZ, Android 21 had a Touch of Death (traditional fighter version of a 0-death) so instead of just taking out the ToD, they nerfed her in general, cause the ToD you could get immediately as soon as the match started. But anyways, I feel Lucario got this end of the stick, cause nobody was really doing well with Lucario and the smashes out of Aura Sphere seemed awesome, nope they're gone. He's still solid but it just didn't seem right to me

Lucas: basically got nothing worth talking about

Luigi: his 0-death got nerfed, but Mr. Concon immediately found another, though he got other kill moves buffed in case you miss the 0-death window

Mario: Dash attack got buffed by now hitting at a better angle, bad recoveries rejoice

Mega Man: i had no idea this was a thing, but now that I look at what he could do, good nerf that makes complete sense

Mewtwo: Quality of life changes and dash attack's shieldstun got nerfed, pretty good changes

Mii Brawler: ok i know nothing about Brawler, but they look like good changes to me

Mii Gunner: Ok that looks like it could be a scary buff if short hop fair autocancels now, tbd on how good this is

G&W: meh, nothing eye-popping

Ness: same as G&W

Pac: confusing wording but i THINK it means when fruit is thrown it stays out for longer, but idk

Palu: quality of life changes, both for and against Palu since you don't have to sit in a long combo and get tilted

Peach/Daisy: fixed some jank with umbrella, a good nerf/buff ig

Pika/Pichu: pummels got super buffed good for getting someone into a certain % range to kill

Zard: didn't get what he needed, he needs to have fair autocancel from a short hop, instead he got more kill power, which is nice but necessary

Pit: makes sense but doesn't matter in main events

Ridley: just some quality of life changes, you tired of me saying this yet?

R.O.B.: Makes 100% sense I'm alright with this buff, but something that isn't listed is now Marth, Roy, Lucina, and Chrom can grab him out of a dash grab now

Robin: i think it means he grabs the ledge faster when it's behind him, but idk

Rosa: some good buffs in there, makes her more usable for sure

Chrom: I've already said I don't think Chrom is going to last long in the meta, and today is the day he just kinda goes, the thing that made him as good as he was is gone, now like in Awakening, Lucina will proceed to do everything he currently can, but better. It's a shame cause I love Chrom, he's that guy that's constantly making dad jokes, he's great.

Ryu/Ken: these make sense honestly

Samus/Dark Samus: changes that i feel more suit Ultimate's meta along with a Missile that travels farther, so you can now use it to edgeguard and stuff

Sheik: sadly still sucks as nothing too drastic got added to her kit

Shulk: kinda feel this one is a nerf, fair>smash art>uptilt very well might be gone

Snake: that's a pretty big buff imo, even if it's just for a frame it's pretty big cause that's a really good kill option

Sonic: quality of life changes

Toon: quality of life changes

Wario: nothing too significant

Yoshi: nothing too significant

ZSS: like Lucario, she kinda got the short end of the 'not necessary nerfs'

Alright so that's every character, while i don't feel too much was changed, enough was to influence the meta for a good chunk of characters

Although none of this really affects me, I use Lucina and Toon for certain matchups, mostly big boys. The only matchup that really affects me that I play often is Inkling since I can now just hit Roller and cancel it out instead of Jumping in order to get out of there, or shielding and trying to shield grab. Oh, also the R.O.B. thing since I can dash grab him now

What are your opinions on the patch? I'd like to discuss and maybe some things that i think could be insignificant could actually really affect the game

 

[Bleudreams]

Im pretty okay with most of the patch. I was really hoping to see Simon and Richter nerfed. I was also hoping that young link would be given more launch power. But, maybe next time.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Still waiting for decent Kirby and Dedede buffs.

 

[Rocketjay8]

Chrom: I've already said I don't think Chrom is going to last long in the meta, and today is the day he just kinda goes, the thing that made him as good as he was is gone, now like in Awakening, Lucina will proceed to do everything he currently can, but better. It's a shame cause I love Chrom, he's that guy that's constantly making dad jokes, he's great.

Apparently, chromicide still kills the opponent first, just not on/ above the stage.

alright i was scared since they said chrom's up b always KOs him first but it seems they just made it always KO chrom if he starts up b on/above the stage, he can still kill you first if you try to gimp him and get caught in his up b

PHEW that was scary we livin bois

— james (@Rivers3k) January 30, 2019

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Apparently, chromicide still kills the opponent first, just not on/ above the stage.

alright i was scared since they said chrom's up b always KOs him first but it seems they just made it always KO chrom if he starts up b on/above the stage, he can still kill you first if you try to gimp him and get caught in his up b

PHEW that was scary we livin bois

— james (@Rivers3k) January 30, 2019

A lot of people are still royally pissed about it, though. The main issue is that you can no longer get cheesy on stage stocks.

 

[PsySmasher]

Still waiting for a buff.

But overall, I'm cool w/ most of the buffs/nerfs in this patch.

 

[MalanoMan]

Hey so I know OP talks mostly about the character changes in this patch but what about the general changes? How about the change to short hopping! First time in the series history that short hop now has its own button! (Or i should say, 2 buttons!) The patch explains that if you press any 2 jump buttons at the same time (regardless of controller layout) you will short hop instead of full hop.

I think that's way cool and it should change the meta for a lot of semi-competitive players, such as myself!

 

[VollrathFGC]

Im pretty okay with most of the patch. I was really hoping to see Simon and Richter nerfed. I was also hoping that young link would be given more launch power. But, maybe next time.

Simon and Richter are good as is imo, get them offstage and get in their face and they can't really get back, I know that's a cliche answer but since you have Link as your pfp, you can just throw out a bomb and you're good, if they try just detonate

A lot of people are still royally pissed about it, though. The main issue is that you can no longer get cheesy on stage stocks.

i don't think it's that bad now, if he's under the stage he's probably not making it back anyways so why are you down there in the first place? but it can still be a good momentum killer if you know it'll kill or a suicide if you're up a stock like with Ike

Hey so I know OP talks mostly about the character changes in this patch but what about the general changes? How about the change to short hopping! First time in the series history that short hop now has its own button! (Or i should say, 2 buttons!) The patch explains that if you press any 2 jump buttons at the same time (regardless of controller layout) you will short hop instead of full hop.

I think that's way cool and it should change the meta for a lot of semi-competitive players, such as myself!

i think it's supposed to mean 2 jump buttons, i'm not 100% sure though, i know it'll mess me up if that's the case cause i have Y on my Gamecube controller set to grab, and I have pretty long fingers, so hopefully it's if you have jump buttons set

 

[DeKu Skrub]

A character that can put a damage multiplier on you and have a stupid good recovery while being a middle weight is not honest

 

[Perfect patricia]

I was hoping for a some arc fire buffs that will make it faster,not disappear if somebody attacks it,people don’t fall out, and less end lag because it’s so bad in neutral

 

[MalanoMan]

I was hoping for a some arc fire buffs that will make it faster,not disappear if somebody attacks it,people don’t fall out, and less end lag because it’s so bad in neutral

I think you could make the argument to make it a faster move. It should still disappear if someone attacks it. That happens with all projectiles (someone correct me if im wrong). Less end lag would probably be a fair buff too.

 

[VollrathFGC]

A character that can put a damage multiplier on you and have a stupid good recovery while being a middle weight is not honest

But also struggles with killing as they need a kill set up or to gimp you, otherwise you’re living until the high hundreds, honestly the most tame “best character in the game” imo

 

[DeKu Skrub]

But also struggles with killing as they need a kill set up or to gimp you, otherwise you’re living until the high hundreds, honestly the most tame “best character in the game” imo

Gimping with them is easy when their up special goes 4 miles in the direction you point it

 

[Luigifan18]

But also struggles with killing as they need a kill set up or to gimp you, otherwise you’re living until the high hundreds, honestly the most tame “best character in the game” imo

Does "high hundreds" mean 175% or something like 600%?

 

[Fell God]

Gimping with them is easy when their up special goes 4 miles in the direction you point it

Sure Inkling is annoying, no doubt about that. But there are much bigger problems out there. They went after Chrom and Inkling in spite of the fact that neither truly needed nerfs, only got them because they're slightly easier to play than the true top tiers.

 

[DeKu Skrub]

Sure Inkling is annoying, no doubt about that. But there are much bigger problems out there. They went after Chrom and Inkling in spite of the fact that neither truly needed nerfs, only got them because they're slightly easier to play than the true top tiers.

Yeah, they shouldve left Chromiside in