Possible new arrow AT (discovery in progress)

[O.M.E.G.A]

That is how it's spelled. I changed it because I didn't like it that much

 

[CorruptFate]

You had it spelled a different way each time it was there. Not important.

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

Could you guys try to stick an arrow at New Pork City like how the Falco did and then stand still afterward? This would tell us if the movement of your character is what causes the arrow to disappears since the arrow needs to be in a certain angle after it hits the edge in order to stick.

 

[FzeroX]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SPNKMNpxaY There is the video

This video contains several sticky arrows on Green Greens. Every time the arrow disappears is because it is either hit by a falling block or I got bored and moved it.

Any questions please post, but I am sure you knew that any wayz. XD

 

[Ryanarius]

Could you guys try to stick an arrow at New Pork City like how the Falco did and then stand still afterward? This would tell us if the movement of your character is what causes the arrow to disappears since the arrow needs to be in a certain angle after it hits the edge in order to stick.

I tried but no luck. Pit seems to fire at a slightly higher point then falco so his arrows go over the edge.

 

[kupo15]

Cool vid and here is a guess. I think it has something to do with which frame it hits. The spacing of that green greens looks about the same as my vid. But idk

 

[FzeroX]

I think it has something to do with which frame it hits. The spacing of that green greens looks about the same as my vid. But idk

That is what I have been trying to say, but everyone seems to overlook that. That is why CF and Ryan and the rest of you can't seem to do it.Your spacing is off. Tihe angle is easy to get once you find the spacing but that can be a pain lots of times.

I got the Idea for green greens from you Kupo, I just need to find a better place to do it.

When most ppl talk about frames, they are mentioning a unit of time, which has always implied that you have to time your button inputs. but that is not the case. Projectiles move at a rate of Xunits per frame, meaning that they will skip over some distance per frame.

For ppl that know math, Projectiles are not differentiable, they are not continuous. This means they take small jumps.
(picture coming later cause I have a tourney to attend, this is best representation as of now, lines are the arrows on each consecutive frame)
-----------------------------
As you can see there are small gaps in between the arrows. So the arrows are traveling Xunits in between frames that we cannot see nor the game read.

All in all what I am trying to say is that, precise spacing is required to pull this off consistently, even the slightest change in position will cause the arrow to "appear" inside the stage and register as getting hit and disappearing. That is why I think this is too hard to try to pull of every where.

We may find that there are certain corners that we can set up, like the green greens blocks, so we know we can stick it. But trying to stick it on any corner is probably too hard or too time consuming to master.

 

[Ryanarius]

Alright using green greens I was able to find some of the properties of the arrows.

They do not time out.
You can land multiple arrows on the same ledge.
You can move left and right without removing the arrow.
you can move slightly vertically but to much vertical movement tends to remove the arrow.

Also I'm going to add a how to for green greens on the opening post.

 

[kupo15]

ok cool. I cant believe we figured this one out. Too bad it is so hard to do that the reward isn't quite worth the risk like ART was. But I may have a couple situations where it might work.

 

[Ryanarius]

ok cool. I cant believe we figured this one out. Too bad it is so hard to do that the reward isn't quite worth the risk like ART was. But I may have a couple situations where it might work.

If we can figure out some consistent spacing method to get it on FD while the opponent is dead it'd be no risk and somewhat practical inescapable combos.

I think it still has the potential to be way better then ART. ART gets you about 5 damage with notable risk. This seems like it could get you about 40 damage off of a throw and put the opponent off the edge for potentially more damage in edgeguarding.

edit @ corrupt: Yeah I realize green greens has been banned in every tournament I've been to but I've heard of it being legal before. Anyways the main point of the green greens one is that we can consistently do it there and thus better understand the properties.

 

[CorruptFate]

Ryan's right green greens never comes up in combat but if we could find the spot on FD it could be nice. I like to think of this as a glowing miny mine.

 

[FzeroX]

the funny part is that Green Greens is legal in my tournies,and like half the good ppl pick it as there counter pick, now I have something to test today.

 

[kupo15]

Gasp* better than ART? We will see lol its not like I use ART too much but it looks cool and its easy to do lol

If only you couldn't dislodge it then it would be awesome

 

[FzeroX]

If only you couldn't dislodge it then it would be awesome

I got one to do that, and I was so happy, but I didn't see if it had a hitbox cause I busy busy trying to dislodge it, then I shot four arrows up and it disappeared, that is how I know it counts towards the four arrow limit.

 

[CorruptFate]

To get it to stay stuck don't you have to just wiggle its way in there?

 

[kupo15]

or dont you have to make a sharp joystick movement like arrow looping?

 

[O.M.E.G.A]

At Ryan: Does it also stay until something hits it?



I've tried experimenting on Final Destination But I couldn't get it to stick. I am hoping that once I get it to stick I can take pictures.

 

[CorruptFate]

At Ryan: Does it also stay until something hits it?



I've tried experimenting on Final Destination But I couldn't get it to stick. I am hoping that once I get it to stick I can take pictures.

Ya it'll go away once hit or until you use 4 more arrows.

 

[O.M.E.G.A]

If anyone has a little info on how to do it, It would help me get the pictures.

 

[CorruptFate]

Look at the vids they are all over this thread. Thats the best thing you can do right now to figure it out also read what FzeroX has to say about it, he seems to be the best at doing it right now.

 

[O.M.E.G.A]

ok cool. I cant believe we figured this one out. Too bad it is so hard to do that the reward isn't quite worth the risk like ART was. But I may have a couple situations where it might work.

Like I said before, it's useful for limiting options when getting on the stage. (I think)

 

[O.M.E.G.A]

I think It has to hit the exact edge on final destination or the very thin white part of the stage right before the ledge. However, I'm not sure if you have to hit it at a certain angle.

I came to this by pausing the video of arrow sticking and looking closely at where the tip of the arrow exactly hits.

I'm not an expert at guiding his arrows but if someone has the time (and I've tried for 2 hours and got nothing because I couldn't hit those) Try to do it and tell me what happens.

 

[kupo15]

OMEGA: I think FzeroX has the answer so let me rephrase it.

He claims that it is 90% spacing and where you start it and 10% angle. He claims that anything below 15 degs and above 75 deg wont work. But the main thing is where you are when the arrow is released.

This is the best way to explain it. What you are thinking is that the motion of the arrow is like the pendulum on a Grandfather clock, flowing and continuous when in fact it isn't. Nothing in any computer acts like this since it is digital and NOT analog.

The arrow moves similar to that of moving lights at a boardwalk or Las Vegas. The lights appear to be moving when in fact they are not. They are just standing still and flashing at the right time to give the illusion that it is moving.

What FzeroX is saying is this. You need to hit the corner when the light turns on.

FzeroX also finds that putting your front foot on the second flower in green greens is perfect spacing.

I wonder if the tree will perfectly space you but I have yet to try it.

FzeroX: correct me if I am wrong.

 

[O.M.E.G.A]

OMEGA: I think FzeroX has the answer so let me rephrase it.

He claims that it is 90% spacing and where you start it and 10% angle. He claims that anything below 15 degs and above 75 deg wont work. But the main thing is where you are when the arrow is released.

This is the best way to explain it. What you are thinking is that the motion of the arrow is like the pendulum on a Grandfather clock, flowing and continuous when in fact it isn't. Nothing in any computer acts like this since it is digital and NOT analog.

The arrow moves similar to that of moving lights at a boardwalk or Las Vegas. The lights appear to be moving when in fact they are not. They are just standing still and flashing at the right time to give the illusion that it is moving.

What FzeroX is saying is this. You need to hit the corner when the light turns on.

FzeroX also finds that putting your front foot on the second flower in green greens is perfect spacing.

I wonder if the tree will perfectly space you but I have yet to try it.

FzeroX: correct me if I am wrong.

I see. I wil experiment more tomorrow on green greens.

 

[Yuna]

Would you guys stop developing new weird techniques for Pit? It forces me to, you know, learn them.

Also, yet another AT that's an obvious glitch? Surprise, surprise, another day in Brawl Paradise.

 

[kupo15]

lol ^_^ Pit sucks so much he needs these to compete. But idk about this one. It seems to hard or impractical to use unless someone shows us the best way to use it. ^_^

 

[FzeroX]

I dont see this as being used in competitive play, that is unless we find some more sweetspots like on Green Greens.

 

[Ryanarius]

Would you guys stop developing new weird techniques for Pit? It forces me to, you know, learn them.

Also, yet another AT that's an obvious glitch? Surprise, surprise, another day in Brawl Paradise.

Actually sticking the arrow is obviously a glitch but it seems like the use of the stuck arrow could be justified as an AT. Meh, maybe I screwed up the definition doesn't really matter.

Also I have to say fzero is right unless you just have perfect spacing and can simply jump out and space the arrow right every time we'll need at least a pattern you could follow to stick the arrow.

 

[CorruptFate]

Would you guys stop developing new weird techniques for Pit? It forces me to, you know, learn them.

Also, yet another AT that's an obvious glitch? Surprise, surprise, another day in Brawl Paradise.

That feels good. My bro was just telling me about how he hates how fast we all work together to find these out.

 

[kupo15]

Its amazing what gets accomplished when you dont flame. The Pit forums rule lol ^_^

 

[CorruptFate]

Is true one of us finds some small little thing that doesn't do anything really, then we build on it. Thats how Angelic step was found.

 

[WolfCypher]

lol ^_^ Pit sucks so much he needs these to compete. But idk about this one. It seems to hard or impractical to use unless someone shows us the best way to use it. ^_^

You, of all people, say Pit sucks?

Well, I've noticed that any AT that involves Pit's Arrows are never actually practical or even remotely useful (prove me wrong with looping, but I find that to be very useless in battle). So seeing this gave me hope. Though this AT falls in the category of impractical.

 

[CorruptFate]

He's saying Pit sucks because of how he is doing in tournies. Arrow looping isn't the best AT but it is great for mind games, and if done right is a great set up.

 

[kupo15]

Now that isn't the attitude we like to see. Check out both of my combo vids. Oh and btw. Here was my friends reaction to arrow looping "Hmm, so I either get hit by the arrow or get hit by you"

Of course, if you overuse it, it isn't as effective.

Yes I do in a way. He doesn't have the natural talent of lets MK or snake or even the brokenness of them. So just to compete with them, you need these AT's just to get up to par with those characters WITHOUT them using their glitches

 

[WolfCypher]

Well...I have to say, I loved seeing (in that video) Falco getting Arrow Looped...I guess I have to learn that if you use it (I have respect for you, Kupo). Your playstyle is very aggressive.

So at the beginning of that video the very 1st thing I saw was Arrow Sticking. Was that by accident or are you good at that too?

 

[O.M.E.G.A]

Do I even help in any way with this new possible AT? I feel like I'm just posting useless nonsense in this thread.


Also, I really hope this is as useful (If we can do it) as the meteknight AT.

 

[CorruptFate]

Thats the vid that started all this. I was asking about how he did that.

Its not as good as the new MK AT that one will most likly get banned (don't start this debate here) this is most likly impractical and won't be used.

Just test ideas and come up with new ones it could really help find them out.

 

[O.M.E.G.A]

Well...I have to say, I loved seeing (in that video) Falco getting Arrow Looped...I guess I have to learn that if you use it (I have respect for you, Kupo). Your playstyle is very aggressive.

So at the beginning of that video the very 1st thing I saw was Arrow Sticking. Was that by accident or are you good at that too?

I think every AT is discovered by accident.

 

[CorruptFate]

Most but not all are by accident. WoI was by accident and arrow looping wasn't.

 

[WolfCypher]

I must say, I found Looping to mostly for show. I stand corrected. Well, between Wing Refreshing/Renewal, Wingdashing (which I still haven't gotten done perfectly), and Arrow Looping (which I'll get to learning later tonight), I'm very happy with whatever you guys find. I just wish Arrow Sticking was something that can be reproduced on command. That's what I was saying.