Possible new arrow AT (discovery in progress)

[Ryanarius]

So I'm changing up this opening post to make this thread similar to the thread that ART was found in.

Name: undeclared

Description: Pit's arrow hits the edge of final d at a low angle, about 20-30 degrees. Instead of just disappearing like the arrow normally would the arrow sticks to the ledge. Currently we believe the arrow will stay there for the entire game if not hit but this is unconfirmed. If the opponent touches the arrow he will take damage and knockback similar to being hit by a normal arrow.

application: It creates a point where your opponent can't go. In addition to that the point is by the edge so it makes it more difficult for the opponent to edgegaurd you and recover. Tapping shield by the arrows will probably make them go away but it still will cause annoyances for your opponent.

To go even further, if you could land multiple arrows on the edge it'd be possible to put a couple arrows on the edge while the opponent is dead. Lets say you kill the opponent vertical and your really good at sticking arrows and get 5 arrows on the ledge. Then from a throw you could probably land an inescapable combo into the arrows. But, lets not stop there, the arrow stun after the throw may work so you can add a fsmash to the combo and it still be inescapable. The throw to four arrows would be about 25 damage (not sure how damage depletion works for simultaneous hits but thats for slightly depleted arrows) also this would refresh your attacks 6 deep. In addition if this can be stringed to a forward smash thats about a 44 damage COMBO. I'm probably overestimating this but I just want to make the value of this clear.

Things we need to find/confirm:

• 
  [*]How exactly do we arrow stick? Currently we believe that its all in spacing and hitting certain ledges an the right angle.
• Where can we arrow stick? So far the edge of final destination and on the blocks on green greens.
  1. The sides of Final Destination? yes
  2. the sides of every map?
  3. on moving platforms?
  4. on any platform?
  5. anywhere?
• What are the properties of the arrows once they are stuck?
  1. Is there damage and knockback the same as a normal arrow? yes
  2. How long do they stay? Until interrupted. Also they can be dislodged by to much vertical movement
  3. Can they only hit a walking opponent or can they hit anything the arrow touches? It currently appears the entire arrow is a hitbox
  4. Can the opponent shield to get rid of them?
  5. How do they affect other projectiles?
• Can we stick multiple arrows? yes
• Can we stick multiple arrows to the same ledge? yes, probably a four arrow limit
• Is this practical?
  

Videos of arrows sticking:

• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-SWCGTz3hA (Me, Ryan!)
• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5T1kdd5teg&fmt=18 (first clip, kupo's montage)
• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcADHkSALRw
• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SPNKMNpxaY (fzero)

How To Arrow Stick:
Green Greens left block side:

• The blocks need to be arranged so that there is one block on the right and none in the middle. It seems to help if there is one on the left but is not needed.... picture:

----X X------

• Really the only needed block is the one towards the center of the stage but the other block pictured will make it easier.
• Stand so that your back foot is near the front of the back flower. This changes depending on camera angle but on a general camera angle this should get you close.
• Fire an arrow as low as you can. Ideally it will stick.
• If the arrow pauses for a second then goes away it means your spacing is close but not perfect.

Green Greens right block side:

• This is similar to green greens left block side except different spacing references.
• Stand so your back foot is at the very front of the back flower.

Theories and anything relevant:

Guys, this seems to be like how Falco can stick his lasers into that one ledge in New Pork City. It is a glitch that allows the straight moving projectile to get stuck on an edge and stay there for the amount of time it normally lasts for. Since Pit's arrows have unlimited range, they basically stick there forever until someone touches it, therefore making them get hit by it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zH7c9LYIqus

- This seems really important. We should see if pit's arrows can stick like falco's in the video.

My best guess at the moment is its just hitting the right point at the right angle although probably not possible to replicate reliably.

Still just guessing but I think it may work because of the weird edge property. Some recoveries (marth comes to mind) can hit the edge in such a way that the character doesn't grab the edge or land on the stage but simply starts to fall again but they can use their up b again as though they had landed on the edge. Maybe its just we have to hit the arrow at this point. Seems difficult still probably to hard to tell how difficult it will be to replicate. Also it'd be nice to know if the arrow would ever go away or if it has to be hit.

Seems like it may be possible for us to find just some sort or pattern like double jump off of the ledge and then shoot an arrow as low as you can and it will generally stick. Unlikely but worth looking for.

nope, It was between a 35 degree and 40 degree angle when it hit though.

I am pretty sure it has to do with the angle it come in at, I'll see what I can do

EDIT: I am not sure it is angle but it does seem to help. Anyways, I believe it is when the tip of the hitbox, the farthest point in front of the arrow, touches the corner. The game then reads it as hitting something solid because the corner is there but it is not actually touching the ground, there fore it continues to fly but wont move anywhere.
This does involve frames, because the arrow travels a set distance per frame, it must be tangent to the corner on a certain frame. If it goes to far then it will hit the ground.
This can be called an AT but I think it may be too hard to pull of consistently to be practical.

Okay so I did more testing (like an hours worth), and I believe that it can stick to any corner. That is because I got it to stick to the underside corner of PS1 and LC.

It does apply to the four arrow limit. I got bored and decided to arrow rain and the stickied arrow went away at number five. They will last forever, with exceptions (on moving platform corners, since the corner moves the arrow also moves causing it to change angle, therefore having the possibility to unsticky)

It does deal the same knockback/damage that a normal arrow would do (charged does more, obviously).

I got two sticky arrows on the field which does imply that you can have up to four, I didn't try same corner though, I will test that later today.

My name vote goes to sticky arrow. And again I think this is way too hard to apply to a real match, for fun maybe but not tourney play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0Q6OY2UltA&NR=1 Phanna had the first vid of it I beleive, third slip starts at :18

That is what I have been trying to say, but everyone seems to overlook that. That is why CF and Ryan and the rest of you can't seem to do it.Your spacing is off. Tihe angle is easy to get once you find the spacing but that can be a pain lots of times.

I got the Idea for green greens from you Kupo, I just need to find a better place to do it.

When most ppl talk about frames, they are mentioning a unit of time, which has always implied that you have to time your button inputs. but that is not the case. Projectiles move at a rate of Xunits per frame, meaning that they will skip over some distance per frame.

For ppl that know math, Projectiles are not differentiable, they are not continuous. This means they take small jumps.
(picture coming later cause I have a tourney to attend, this is best representation as of now, lines are the arrows on each consecutive frame)
-----------------------------
As you can see there are small gaps in between the arrows. So the arrows are traveling Xunits in between frames that we cannot see nor the game read.

All in all what I am trying to say is that, precise spacing is required to pull this off consistently, even the slightest change in position will cause the arrow to "appear" inside the stage and register as getting hit and disappearing. That is why I think this is too hard to try to pull of every where.

We may find that there are certain corners that we can set up, like the green greens blocks, so we know we can stick it. But trying to stick it on any corner is probably too hard or too time consuming to master.

 

[xeleion]

I've seen that before, but I don't know anything about what causes it. I'm sure someone who posts in this thread will know though.

 

[FzeroX]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4893570#post4893570

that is my theory

 

[CorruptFate]

I can't wait to see how this turns out this could be great for stopping edge gaurding.

 

[Felis]

I thought people knew this already?
It was in Kupo's combo/montage video. I believe it was towards the beginning of the video.

 

[CorruptFate]

We know about it we are seeing if we can replcate it and use it.

 

[Ryanarius]

Has anyone had this affect on anything besides the edge. I think I've heard something about it working on moving platforms.

My best guess at the moment is its just hitting the right point at the right angle although probably not possible to replicate reliably.

Still just guessing but I think it may work because of the weird edge property. Some recoveries (marth comes to mind) can hit the edge in such a way that the character doesn't grab the edge or land on the stage but simply starts to fall again but they can use their up b again as though they had landed on the edge. Maybe its just we have to hit the arrow at this point. Seems difficult still probably to hard to tell how difficult it will be to replicate. Also it'd be nice to know if the arrow would ever go away or if it has to be hit.

Seems like it may be possible for us to find just some sort or pattern like double jump off of the ledge and then shoot an arrow as low as you can and it will generally stick. Unlikely but worth looking for.

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

Guys, this seems to be like how Falco can stick his lasers into that one ledge in New Pork City. It is a glitch that allows the straight moving projectile to get stuck on an edge and stay there for the amount of time it normally lasts for. Since Pit's arrows have unlimited range, they basically stick there forever until someone touches it, therefore making them get hit by it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zH7c9LYIqus

Here is the link to the video of how this works for Falco's lasers. I'm sure it works the same for anyone's projectile that defies gravity and that doesn't explode on contact with a wall.

This also occurs on the first instant of Kupo's combo video at 0:02

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5T1kdd5teg&fmt=18

I first wondered what that was on kupo's video until I remembered the Falco's Laser glitch video that I first saw.

 

[kupo15]

cool that proves the hitbox is still there. I think we should compile a lot of footage of this happening. So far I count three: My combo vid, this one, and I have one sagemoon sent me on one of green greens blocks

 

[CorruptFate]

Ya get all the footage and working theories on the OP so we can try and see if it can be done it. This shouldn't be to hard ART was descovered like this and it went fast. We have some ideas on how it is done so lets try those first.

 

[kupo15]

ok so I guess this will be the official thread even though it has been found by multiple users.

 

[Ryanarius]

ok so I guess this will be the official thread even though it has been found by multiple users.

Opening post is pretty now. Lets figure out how to do this then we can figure out the silly things like credit and name.

 

[kupo15]

ok here is mine in my opening clip of my first combo vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5T1kdd5teg&fmt=18

I would post sage's but I am in the middle of finishing up my second combo vid I can't use windows movie maker right now

 

[CorruptFate]

Nothing is know for sure but I would say that the arrows have the same damage, knockback and you can only have 4 arrows on the stage right? thats what I've heard. So odds are this will be one of your 4 arrows.

 

[FzeroX]

Okay so I did more testing (like an hours worth), and I believe that it can stick to any corner. That is because I got it to stick to the underside corner of PS1 and LC.

It does apply to the four arrow limit. I got bored and decided to arrow rain and the stickied arrow went away at number five. They will last forever, with exceptions (on moving platform corners, since the corner moves the arrow also moves causing it to change angle, therefore having the possibility to unsticky)

It does deal the same knockback/damage that a normal arrow would do (charged does more, obviously).

I got two sticky arrows on the field which does imply that you can have up to four, I didn't try same corner though, I will test that later today.

My name vote goes to sticky arrow. And again I think this is way too hard to apply to a real match, for fun maybe but not tourney play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0Q6OY2UltA&NR=1 Phanna had the first vid of it I beleive, third slip starts at :18

 

[kown]

hmm i used to like sticky arrow but now i like The Sticky Blue Arrow better heh.

 

[CorruptFate]

So FzeroX can you replicate it? It sounded like you were doing it constitantly or at least often enough to get an idea of what needs to be done.

 

[kupo15]

they go away after like 5 secs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcADHkSALRw

 

[Crystanium]

they go away after like 5 secs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcADHkSALRw

How certain are you about that? The block fell right onto the arrow.

 

[kupo15]

very certain. The video doesn't go with the words. It went away from my combo vid

 

[CorruptFate]

In FzeroX posts he says they stay until you use your 5th arrow or it gets hit.

 

[Crystanium]

very certain. The video doesn't go with the words. It went away from my combo vid

I don't understand what you mean by, "The video doesn't go with the words." Please consider your video again. If you hit those blocks with the arrows, they break. Notice how the arrow that is fired remains in the center. It only goes away when the block from the sky falls onto it. You'll also notice that the block that falls on it does not break, but the one right next to it on the left does. That is because the block interfered with something that was keeping the arrow there.

I copied the video that you offered here, but I haven't been able to produce the same results.

 

[kupo15]

i mean that my reasoning is not backed up by the video I submitted in that post.

Ryan should be posting the full version of it to replace that which was in my combo vid. and it shows it disappearing.

here is my guess as to why it disappeared. It was going in a side and down direction and this is a glitch so maybe the game read that the arrow was passing through the stage in which case it would disappear when it reached the end of the stage. If we can do the glitch and pretend we loop it straight in the air after it sticks, it will go forever. That arrow lasted about as long as it would if you fired it across the stage.

This could explain why FzeroX says it goes away after the 5th arrow. Idk what his looked like but maybe he did it so that the arrow faced up even if the graphics didn't show it going in that direction. Then it disappears after the 5th arrow which we knew from Arrow swarming

 

[Ryanarius]

Another video. This is kupo's stick again except the entire vid. Also I slowed it down to 1/4th speed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABk_YPKwGBQ

Notice how the arrow disappears right when kupo rolled. This gives me the impression that he could still control the arrow and when he pressed the direction to roll it unstuck the arrow.

 

[CorruptFate]

The arrow did go the same direction that he rolled at the same time. If the arrows are still controlable after being stuck then I don't think this could have any true use as you would have to stay still.

 

[Ryanarius]

Its possible that just the angle his stuck at made it easy to have it get dislodged. Really we just need to figure out to replicate this more consistently. At the moment its looking like this is simply to hard to replicate to be practical. Hopefully we'll find a trick to timing/spacing this or maybe we are missing something.

 

[FzeroX]

I thought pplz knew that you could control the arrows when they are stuck, silly me for assuming that ppl knew that.

They will last forever if you do not unstick them, I have also got one arrow stuck to where it wouldn't move at all, no idea how it happened, absolutely zilch.

Also I only got like 15 arrows stuck in like an hour, and i can't seem to double stick.

 

[Ryanarius]

Also I only got like 15 arrows stuck in like an hour, and i can't seem to double stick.

Thats way better then me. Any tip for sticking them?

 

[kupo15]

i still dont believe you can control them the way you are saying you can. I think that it is just like arrow looping. you cant do sharp turns or else you will lose it. I would very much like to see an arrow go stick forever.

 

[FzeroX]

well i will see what i can do, i can never seem to stick it when I am recording.

 

[Crystanium]

I would sure like to be able to do this like everyone else is. I didn't get any results when I tested it out as seen in the video from kupo15.

 

[CorruptFate]

Ya in all my attempts and playing around i've never stuck an arrow it makes me cry.

BTW dryn you live where I was born.

 

[kown]

heh mucho props to ever finds out how to do this consistently.

in the meantime ill go learn how to do mindgames.

 

[kupo15]

this is weird. If you look at sage's clip I dont understand why the block he destroyed didn't get an arrow stick. it looks to be the same angle and everything.

Corrupt check the social

 

[CorruptFate]

Checked now its your turn.

I gota go start siding with kown and some of the others on this. Ill keep trying but doesn't seem to useful I mean if you put it on the edge it can hit them as they recover then the just recover again.

 

[kupo15]

yea i dont think this is useful either. the auto snap ledge thing will protect anyway. Ill keep it on the back burner.

 

[O.M.E.G.A]

I paused the three videos right when the arrows hit. I think it can be allowed to hit right on the edge or a millimeter (or something like that) on the stage. I don't know if that helps but I'm hoping it does.

 

[Ryanarius]

Really I don't see it being used for edgegaurding but for comboing.

I mean we know that the following combos:

Loop arrow, B-throw > arrow hit > Jab x3
Loop arrow, F-smash > arrow hit > F-smash

It seems like if we stick an arrow while the opponent is dead we could achieve a similar combo.

 

[O.M.E.G.A]

It is useful for getting rid of some choices for getting on the stage. It eliminates there chances of ledge attacks or just pressing forward to get back on.

 

[CorruptFate]

Thats true like I said ill keep trying but I still don't know.

@ Omega good to see you back I thought I might have scared you off lol. And yo have a typo on David's last name in your sig I think.