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Pokemon X and Y (SPOILERS THREAD)

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mood4food77

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my apologies...

we thought megamawile was gonna have crazy high attack...jeez this thing is ridiculous
 

#HBC | Laundry

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i love and hate this thing simultaneously holy hell

this gen's like "here we're gonna do everything in our power to make stall really ****ing good again"

and then it's like "nvm we're releasing all this **** that can 2shot skarmory and hippowdon with ease but you can only have 1 per team!"
 

The Real Gamer

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Double post but who cares cause we got another Mega... Pinsir!



"Mega Pinsir. It's Bug/Flying-type. Its ability is Aerilate which turns Normal-type moves into Flying-type moves" -Serebii
 

Wave⁂

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Bad news is that Mega Pinsir is probably Bug/Flying. Good news is that you won't eat 50% from SR on your first switch in. Bad news is that you're still Bug/Flying.

Also good news is that this indirectly confirms Mega Heracross, since they're version exclusive counterparts.
 

mood4food77

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why the **** couldn't it have been bug/steel or bug/fighting or bug/dark

SERIOUSLY?!?!? BUG/FLYING!!!!

i'm disappointed, although it's ****ing badass
 

Circa

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I'm actually trading someone a Heracross for Pinsir, due to how much I love Pinsir.

My side of the deal is looking even worse now than it was before.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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If I had been making the game, I would have made him Bug/ Dark

Think about it, his rival is scyther. Scyther got a steel upgrade in gold and silver. The OTHER type added that gen was dark

So he should have been dark
 

PsychoIncarnate

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Does flying help bug in ANY way?

Isn't bug resistant to ground anyway?

What does flying add to bug type?
 

Wave⁂

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STAB Giga Impact

EDIT:
Whimsicott is Grass/Fairy


Mega Heracross confirmed, Bug/Fighting with... Skill Link? The only multi-hit move is gets right now is Fury Attack, so that suggests it might get Arm Thrust, Pin Missile, or something like that.
 

yoonb

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Heracross getting a mega excited me because it's one of my favorite Pokemon, but Skill Link? Eeehhhhh. Hope that ability doesn't flop as hard as it does for Mega Blastoise's Mega Launcher.
 

Wave⁂

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Heracross getting a mega excited me because it's one of my favorite Pokemon, but Skill Link? Eeehhhhh. Hope that ability doesn't flop as hard as it does for Mega Blastoise's Mega Launcher.
I wouldn't be surprised if it got Rock Blast, would be much better than Stone Edge. Icicle Spear is unlikely, but would be powerful. Bug/Fighting/Ice/Rock is amazing type coverage alone, but every move being at or above 120 BP would be insane. I can't think of any Pokemon that commonly runs four moves with such high base power. Special Dragonite is the only Pokemon that comes to mind, actually. Maybe if you count Hydro Pump Cloyster, but that's only three moves.
 

#HBC | Laundry

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so where are people finding leaks now that smogon's thread is closed and i can't access somethingawful

do i just use serebii or what
 

Wave⁂

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Serebii's website still looks like something from 2002

Probably because it is
 

mood4food77

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i saw on reddit that you will be able to catch the starters in the safari zone depending on your friends

which is totally awesome
 

mood4food77

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i see that no mention of being able to catch the starters was made

MY POINT STILL STANDS
 

PsychoIncarnate

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Anyone else hoping that Mega Houndour would have turned out to be a cerberus?

It's just more spikey
 

Wave⁂

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Mega Houndoom gets Solar Power. Judging by what we've seen so far, it's likely that he'll get a giant boost to SpAtk and only a little bit to Speed, which is what he really needs.
 

Circa

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There was some rumor lurking around that you could buy a mega stone for the Gen I starter that was strong against yours for 500k in the evolution stone store at Lumiose City. I don't believe anyone has provided physical evidence of it yet, but it came from a trusted leaker.

The Electrike line is forever going to be deemed as Goku in my games. Dat Mega Manectric.

EDIT: I really need to remember to check in to the most obvious place on Serebii before posting sometimes.
 

Wave⁂

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Gotta say, Mega Manectric looks pretty bad. It's like someone just pulled and stretched his hat back. Almost every other Mega Evolution has been a pretty drastic change, this is just weird.
 

CRASHiC

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They never find themselves below RU because of good movepools and stats. Pokémon like Druddigon and Altaria may not be powerful, but their stats aren't exactly terrible either
Drud has a BST of 485, a speed of 40 and no bulk or priority to justify that either. There's quite simply no way anyone who is compotent at this game could possibly argue that is anything near decent unless you have massive conformation bias.

Every single pokemon with his BST total is NU with the exception of Spirtomb and Cryonogal is NU, and Cry is only picked because of his use for rapid spin.
Yet this pokemon not only overcomes his BST to particpate in the tier, he DEFINES the tier. He is the dominate threat despite being below the tier's average BST. He has no move like Spore to justify it, he has no obscene stat to justify it. All he has is the undisputed most powerful STAB in the game.

Even outside of our own metagame, if you simply run the numbers on what types are objectively strong beitof themselves, dragon comes out on top both offensively AND defensively. If you then weight those numbers by what is strong on the other end, dragon again comes out on top. (And as a note, if you make a type that hits everything neutral, it comes out on top.)

I've spent the last summer with Ulti looking into stuff like this (given he's done all the hard work and math and graphs) and I can easily provide those, but for something as blatently obvious as this, it shouldn't be needed.


Physical/Special split was the best thing to ever happen to this game
Physical Special was horrible handled and destroyed as many pokemon as it saved. It was nothing more than a redistribution of power, not the creation of.
EVs force you to walk a tightrop, and up until the upcoming gen, they were so poorly implemented it's unreal. They were hidden specific values that needed absolute precision control on the part of the trainer, thus causing an incredibly bizarre type of grind that did absolutely nothing to improve the overall experience over just letting you assign the EVs. Looks like they're fixing that at least. Still, EVs are far too limited to really allow players to take advantage of say, more evenly distributed stats, thus driving the metagame to extremes, Hyper speed, hyper offence, hyper this hyper that, there's always going to be a lean towards a certain tactic, but the fact that you're so pigeonholed is frustrating.
Again, none of what you say here is true.
What setbacks EV training may have on the players is greatly outweighed by the flexibility it offers to the player. When you compare the number of viable sets then to now you see the benefit this has brought competitive play.


http://www.smogon.com/gs/pokemon/gengarhttp://www.smogon.com/rs/pokemon/gengar

Third and Fourth gen were some of the most balanced in reguards to playstyle despite being the dawns of EVs. The only reason for our hyper offense game right now is simply too much power creep in offense. There was a deliberate effort here to make the game more offensive and unfortunately for singles it was unneeded.

Oh I'm sorry I don't keep up to date with the metagame of glorious Nippon (banzai), and that I also expect them to only cater to one facet of their own ****ing game. Yes it's called whining and moaning when I expect them to make sure ALL aspects of the design are sound. What a ******** argument that is, were you born in Snap City? "Oh they're not trying to design the game properly so you shouldn't complain!"

That's piss poor.
You can design for them.
You can make them function.
However you can NEVER balance two games internally with shared resources at once.

Have you ever even worked on a game before? Balancing one is a near impossibility. Balancing two simultaneously is impossible.
Guild Wars 1 collapsed because of this.
From Magic to League, every community that has to work with these institutes banlilst balance changes for these different environments to make them adjust.




"Debate Hall rhetoric"



You can report me to whomever you want, and they aren't gonna do ****.
Maybe its changed since I was permabanned from Smashboards but it was always told that you must uphold debate hall standards to all sections of the site.
 

Fluttershy

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it looks like someone fused it with one of Zeus' lightning bolts

whimiscott is grass/fairy? YES! but it could have been a better pokemon imo...
 

Knight Dude

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Anyone else hoping that Mega Houndour would have turned out to be a cerberus?

It's just more spikey

Not really. I like how Houndoom's new form turned out. I we get a Cerberus Pokemon, It should be a full three-stager. Something along the lines of Deino, Zweilous, and Hydreigon, so that each form adds a head. But the Cerberus Pokemon should have Fire as its primary type.
 

Teran

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Drud has a BST of 485, a speed of 40 and no bulk or priority to justify that either. There's quite simply no way anyone who is compotent at this game could possibly argue that is anything near decent unless you have massive conformation bias.

Every single pokemon with his BST total is NU with the exception of Spirtomb and Cryonogal is NU, and Cry is only picked because of his use for rapid spin.
Yet this pokemon not only overcomes his BST to particpate in the tier, he DEFINES the tier. He is the dominate threat despite being below the tier's average BST. He has no move like Spore to justify it, he has no obscene stat to justify it. All he has is the undisputed most powerful STAB in the game.
He has everything laid out just right for him, but he's not even UU. The fact of the matter is, he's reasonably bulky and has a meaty attack stat. Couple that with a perfectly respectable movepool in a tier where Pokémon aren't all that tough, and he does more than okay. 90 in the defences and 120 attack is pretty respectable for RU/NU, and B/W doesn't even favour blazing speed thanks to all its priority spam (not to mention Drugddigon can learn Sucker Punch too).


Even outside of our own metagame, if you simply run the numbers on what types are objectively strong beitof themselves, dragon comes out on top both offensively AND defensively. If you then weight those numbers by what is strong on the other end, dragon again comes out on top. (And as a note, if you make a type that hits everything neutral, it comes out on top.)

I've spent the last summer with Ulti looking into stuff like this (given he's done all the hard work and math and graphs) and I can easily provide those, but for something as blatently obvious as this, it shouldn't be needed.
There was never any doubt that Dragon is a superior typing, but that was inherently part of its design, but also could be mitigated by stat restrictions, movepool restricitons, secondary typings etc, but GF decides that every generation instead of performing sensible tweaks, they'll throw another spanner into the works to completely throw everything off. If they were so smart and knew what they were doing, they wouldn't be ****ing things up harder with each release.

Physical Special was horrible handled and destroyed as many pokemon as it saved. It was nothing more than a redistribution of power, not the creation of.
It opens up every pokémon to make good use of its STAB and its offensive stats, the only reason you have that complaint is because GF were dumb enough not to create enough parallel moves.


Again, none of what you say here is true.
What setbacks EV training may have on the players is greatly outweighed by the flexibility it offers to the player. When you compare the number of viable sets then to now you see the benefit this has brought competitive play.


http://www.smogon.com/gs/pokemon/gengarhttp://www.smogon.com/rs/pokemon/gengar

Third and Fourth gen were some of the most balanced in reguards to playstyle despite being the dawns of EVs. The only reason for our hyper offense game right now is simply too much power creep in offense. There was a deliberate effort here to make the game more offensive and unfortunately for singles it was unneeded.
You're completely ignoring the fact that later gens added a lot more moves, stat exp if anything allows for more moveset flexibility than EVs. Again I'm not saying EVs are a terrible idea, but they are more restrictive than they need to be (and up until now had the worst implementation of any mechanic I have ever seen).




You can design for them.
You can make them function.
However you can NEVER balance two games internally with shared resources at once.

Have you ever even worked on a game before? Balancing one is a near impossibility. Balancing two simultaneously is impossible.
Guild Wars 1 collapsed because of this.
From Magic to League, every community that has to work with these institutes banlilst balance changes for these different environments to make them adjust.

I agree with all of this, which is why I constantly fault GF for constantly adding a **** ton of stuff at once. which is exactly what they're doing here, and trust me neither Singles nor Doubles will be balanced, although Doubles is always inherently easier in that two pokémon synergy allows for a lot of mitigation of weak points, and really brings out the strengths of each individual.


Maybe its changed since I was permabanned from Smashboards but it was always told that you must uphold debate hall standards to all sections of the site.
The Debate Hall is a complete and utter fossil. Nobody gives a **** about it, I only even joined back in 09 because Zero Beat asked me to. I never cared for the place, and I never cared for the Debaters, I thought they all cared too much about a place that meant too little. You may be right about that rule that they had, but whatever significance that place had has long since dissipated into the ether of history.
 

#HBC | Laundry

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kinda fun watching it but competitive thread would be better kinda sorta

mega zam looks bonkers from a statpoint alone. at first i thought it'd be trash cause it lost magic guard. now i realize that was a balancing move.
 

yoonb

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mega Alakazam reminds me of yugiohs dark ancient magician or whatever it was called...
It's just Dark Magician. :p

By the way, in terms of moveset changes, Flareon apparently gets Flare Blitz now!

I'm surprised Dragonite and Salamence Mega Evolutions haven't been found yet, I would assume they would get the same treatment as the other Psuedos. And I'm still hopeful for a Yanmega Mega Evolution, maybe making it Bug/Dragon like an actual dragonfly.
 

Teran

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So my brother just managed to pick up Y today.

Mad as ****, but I've been able to watch him play at least, seems really cool.
 

#HBC | Laundry

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stats:
HP: 70
ATK: 150
DEF: 140
SPA: 65
SPD: 100
Speed: 75

i actually kinda wanna use him. ryker was mentioning he would get defensive rather than offensive stat buffs and i was like "he'd be the bulky offensive pivot that lando-t always wished he was"

welp
 
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