Pokemon X and Y: Competitive Gen VI Discussion

[ss118]

I haven't really thought much of making a real team in this game yet, though I do have two pokemon that are definitely going to be on my team: Azumarill(if no one would have guessed) and Lucario(precisely the set I listed). For Azu I feel like CB is best, but I'm going to start out with Belly Drum because it's slightly harder to breed for and it's new so maybe I will like it better. So my team is -

Lucario @ Lucarionite
Ability: Jolly
4 HP, 252 Attack, 252 Speed
Close Combat
Crunch
Stone Edge -> Ice Punch
Bullet Punch

Azumarill @ Leftovers/ Mystic Water / Choice Band
Huge Power: Adamant
248 HP, 252 Attack, 4 Defense, 4 Sp. Defense
Rough Play
Waterfall
Belly Drum / Superpower(probably best now)
Aqua jet

I don't know if either of the cover legendaries will be OU, but if they were I would probably use the Y guy for a cool Choice Scarfer. I do not know if having two pokemon with mega evolutions is a good idea on the same team, but as the third pokemon I will initially run:

Gengar @ Gengarite
Levitate: Timid
4 HP, 252 Sp. Attack, 252 Speed
Shadow Ball
Sludge Bomb/ Sludge Wave
Substitute / Taunt / Something
Pain Split / Destiny Bond / Something

The lack of defensive dark types hurt since steel lost its ghost resistance. Best ones that come to mind are Tyranitar / Umbreon, with a bit of Drapion / Skuntank to the side purely for their typing... I actually like Skuntank. In gen IV I had some set that switched into LO Gengar and Specs Timid Latias(with SS and SR) and forced the 50/50 with Sucker Punch/ pursuit, while outspeeding and KOing standard 248 HP/ 8 Speed Scizor, with Explosion rounding out the set able to just blast Blissey among others... obv if the Explosion nerf is still in effect(probably) it won't work, but damn it was cool to use. That was all with an Expert Belt as well. I'll probably go Umbreon with:

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Synchronize(maybe it gets a better ability): Careful(Impish?)
252 HP, some spread I have to dig up now
Payback(or something else)
Wish
Protect
Curse

I would want SR somewhere, but for now it's a limited move. Could use Smeargle... actually, I'll probably do that.

Smeargle @ Focus Sash / Something
Own Tempo(maybe it has a better ability): Jolly
248 HP, 4 Defense, 4 Sp. Defense, 252 Speed
Spore / Dark Void(when we have access to it, if grass being immune to spore is actually that annoying)
Stealth Rock
Spikes
U-turn

Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Rough Skin(if sand veil is banned still): Jolly
4 HP, 252 Attack, 252 Speed
Outrage
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Fire Blast

Without stone edge you get walled by Togekiss.

Just a spur of the moment team. Probably weak to everything, but I have access to everything in game to make it.

 

[Wave⁂]

Umbreon gets Foul Play, which could be better than Payback. Its damage against Mega Gengar in particular is pretty similar. Payback with 100 base power from Umbreon's base 65 attack, and Foul Play with 95 base power with Megagar's base 60 attack. Less damage against Gengar in particular, but better against like everything else.

Also Skuntank topkek

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

haha that skuntank censor

Personally I've theorized a knock-off set for Umbreon. The buffs that move got this gen are a pretty considerable amount and removing a lot of Pokemon's items is really effective. Also the fact that it probably maintains the double damage on Megamons, given their inability to lose their item, might be a godsend against Pokemon like Gengar or Alakazam.

 

[mood4food77]

he still does piss poor damage and has no way to get past steels and especially with the new fairy types being around, i wouldn't be surprised if he's RU

greninja on the other hand, he's going to be awesome

 

[UltiMario]

btw

Yvetal has 0 chance in OU, 99 speed is still way too good for 131 attacking stats an incredible bulk with an amazing movepool that gets essentially perfect coverage in 3 moves (Dark/Flying/Fighting), a move with 75% recovery, and wall-level bulk.

Xerneas has -1000 chance in OU. It's competing for the next best Pokemon in the entire GAME (It's top 3 at worst, and that's if you include Arceus and +2 Arceus as 2 separate Pokemon).

Zygarde will be in OU though. Maybe BL, 600 BST is great but it's spread so... poorly.

 

[ss118]

Wait, Xerneas is worse than Kyogre, Arceus, mewtwo, deoxys, dialga, palkia, rayquaza...

I didn't think Y was that bulky.

 

[UltiMario]

It's about even with Kyogre (Drizzle nerf makes it less good), arguably not Arceus level, but way better than anything else.

Fairy type is ridic in Ubers (say hello to being immune to the STABs of half the meta), and on top of that Geomancy provides +2 SpA +2 SpD +2 Spe. 99 Spe even unboosted still outpaces most the tier...

Combine that with Moonblast, Psyshock, and Focus Blast and Ubers as a whole gets destroyed after SR and 2 layers of Spikes. I admit, that's a bit hard to get, but it's much more realistic to just flatten everything late game after stuff has had chunks taken out of them.

 

[ss118]

I don't see it honestly. I'm going to assume you mean the power herb set, since you talk about geomancy. It's a ****ty move otherwise.

I am secretly betting that Kyogre and Groudon get new abilities that retain permanent weather. They deserve it.

 

[Kuraudo]

Say out of curiosity, I've always wanted to make Charizard competitively viable (yes, I know he's NU thanks to his 4x rock weakness. Stealth Rock can die in a ****ing fire), and with the help of Pokémon X, I think there's a chance for him since it looks as if Mega Charizard X is the more valuable one. It sucks that Charizard still can't get Dragon Dance (if he did, that'd boost him big time), but what would you guys think of these two builds? I haven't picked up my Charmander yet in the game, but yeah,

Mega Charizard X (Mixed Sweeper)

Item Held: Charizardite XNature: Naive/ Naughty
EV Spread: 252 Speed / 124 Attack / 124 Special Attack / HP 4
Moveset:

• Flame Charge (for the speed boost and to take advantage of physical attacks being boosted in X form)
• Heat Wave/Fire Blast
• Dragon Tail/Dragon Claw/Flare Blitz
• Power-Up Punch/Brick Break (Power-Up Punch for another attack boost and Brick Break for breaking walls)

Or perhaps to go all out on physical,

(Physical Sweeper)

Nature: Adamant/Jolly
EV Spread: 252 Speed / 252 Attack / 4 HP
Moveset:

• Flame Charge
• Dragon Tail/Dragon Claw
• Brick Break/Power-Up Punch
• Flare Blitz/Shadow Claw
--
Kinda cheated with putting all sorts of moves in, but 100 base speed, while great, will get him licked by some others so Flame Charge I think is a vital part of Charizard since he has no access to Dragon Dance. If he could use Dragon Dance, he'd be OP if he avoids a Stealth Rock. A lot of these moves are gonna get the STAB bonus along with the ability "Tough Claw" bonus in the first place. Thoughts? Has Charizard dug himself out of NU if he can dodge stealth rock?

 

[choknater]

i'm using this team and i win about 50% of games

prankster team

LMAO

mega-banette - sub, cotton guard, sucker punch, destiny bond
ferrothorn - SR, twave, spikes, leech seed
gothitelle - trick scarf, torment, protect, rest
murkrow - sub/swag/foulplay, roost
liepard - sub/swag/foulplay, twave
sableye - sub/swag/foulplay, wisp

basically i lead with mega banette and bait them to attack me, then trade with destiny bond

then choose either ferro or goth gain myself momentum. ferro suicides while setting up seed and/or hazards, so that i can subseed with a prankster pokemon.

idk why my goth set hasn't caught on yet, but it's basically a free kill if you trick at the right time. they get stuck into alternate struggles because of torment, and u can protect if they're attacking and rest if they're not. my favorite gothitelle trap set

then if i have momentum i basically sub/swag until they die LOOOOOL

even if i don't have momentum... a lucky swagger can turn an entire game around

i made this team because of aegislash. i realized liepard pretty much always beats aegislash, then i realized how cool swagger is. high risk high reward

if i were to RMT, i'd give this team 10/10

 

[Wave⁂]

Wow that's kind of **** team man

 

[choknater]

well today my win rate was 90%

because of forfeits

 

[The Real Gamer]

Prankster Swagger team... Yeah I'd forfeit too.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

you are the biggest ******* and i love you for it but please do me the favor of never fighting me

 

[choknater]

haha

i have always loved playing games in a way where i can devise a strategy where i don't have to think very much and win in a cheap, easy way. there is certainly a satisfaction in reading/outplaying your opponent, and there is another kind of satisfaction where you planned so well that you don't have to...

and then there is the satisfaction in straight up GAMBLING

that's what swagger is

this team would probably get exposed by a lot of things (taunt, own tempo) but so many people are trying out gen 6 pokes and especially aegislash, that their own teams are getting exposed lol.

 

[Wave⁂]

haha

i have always loved playing games in a way where i can devise a strategy where i don't have to think very much and win in a cheap, easy way.

Oh man, I totally agree, that's why I play marth

 

[TL?]

i'm using this team and i win about 50% of games

prankster team

LMAO

mega-banette - sub, cotton guard, sucker punch, destiny bond
ferrothorn - SR, twave, spikes, leech seed
gothitelle - trick scarf, torment, protect, rest
murkrow - sub/swag/foulplay, roost
liepard - sub/swag/foulplay, twave
sableye - sub/swag/foulplay, wisp

basically i lead with mega banette and bait them to attack me, then trade with destiny bond

then choose either ferro or goth gain myself momentum. ferro suicides while setting up seed and/or hazards, so that i can subseed with a prankster pokemon.

idk why my goth set hasn't caught on yet, but it's basically a free kill if you trick at the right time. they get stuck into alternate struggles because of torment, and u can protect if they're attacking and rest if they're not. my favorite gothitelle trap set

then if i have momentum i basically sub/swag until they die LOOOOOL

even if i don't have momentum... a lucky swagger can turn an entire game around

i made this team because of aegislash. i realized liepard pretty much always beats aegislash, then i realized how cool swagger is. high risk high reward

if i were to RMT, i'd give this team 10/10

I love these types of gimmicky and/or unconventional teams.

 

[IC3R]

he still does piss poor damage and has no way to get past steels and especially with the new fairy types being around, i wouldn't be surprised if he's RU

greninja on the other hand, he's going to be awesome

Yeah, Dark-types overall might take a minor hit due to some Fairy-types and a decent distribution of Dazzling Gleam via TM, but we'll have to wait until everything is sorted out, regarding the updated movepools of 718 Pokemon. Considering most Fairies are rather physically frail, Dark 'mons like Tyranitar will still remain very dominant from the sheer amount of bulk and power it offers, especially with the neutrality gained versus Steels.

As for Greninja: the bubble frog has quite a lot of sweeping potential, despite the lack of reliable boosting moves, with the simple fact it gets STAB on everything. The ninja also carries an enormous amount of utility, but its viability is highly dependent on the distribution of Defog. I've already thought out several sets I could use, depending on what my team needs; my favorite is the standard Protean hole-puncher:

Greninja @ Life Orb / Expert Belt
Protean / Timid, Naive, Hasty
EVs - 252 SpA, 252 Spd, 4 HP or 4 Atk
~ Hydro Pump / Surf
~ Ice Beam
~ Grass Knot
~ Hidden Power [Fire] / U-Turn

Standard special set; Speed stat will be adjusted according to the popularity of Pokemon in the metagame, or the competitive relevance of Pokemon like Therian Tornadus, should it return to OU. Maintains an incredible amount of coverage, threatening to OHKO or 2HKO many common switch-ins, if one is able to aptly predict your opponent's moves (much like a "real" ninja!). Did you know this thing's Ice Beam OHKO's 252/252 +natured Multiscale Dragonite, and Hydro Pump or Grass Knot 2HKO 252/252 +natured Tyranitar in sand (without Assault Vest)? Yeah, it's that strong. Unfortunately, I hear HP Fire is incredibly difficult to obtain in-game along with perfect IVs, thus U-Turn is selected as a backup move, allowing Greninja to function as a powerful offensive scout and pivot.


We also have the rather interesting Gem Pivot:

Greninja @ Fighting Gem / Flying Gem
Protean / Jolly, Naive, Hasty
EVs - 252 Atk, 252 Spd, 4 HP
~ Waterfall
~ Acrobatics
~ Power-Up Punch / U-Turn
~ U-Turn / Night Slash / Rock Slide


Power-Up Punch, when combined with a Fighting Gem, becomes a 90 BP attack that provides a free Attack boost. Afterward, Acrobatics and Waterfall hit incredibly hard, and U-Turn provides an easy way out in case a massive physical wall shows its face (like what, I don't even know lol). The alternative Night Slash provides near-perfect coverage in tandem with Acrobatics and Power-Up Punch, while Rock Slide strikes particular threats super-effectively. It is unknown if Froakies can be taught Ice Punch, so I left it out.


Finally, we have the probably-not-as-useful-but-still-a-cool-idea Utility Scout-Lead:

Greninja @ Leftovers
Protean / Naive, Timid
EVs - 240 HP, 252 Spd, 16 SpA
~ Scald
~ Taunt
~ Spikes / Toxic Spikes
~ U-Turn / Substitute

An unusual set, but this frog provides good team support. Massive speed allows for quick hazard-setting, while Taunt prevents enemy hazards from ever going up, in addition to preventing Defog from hitting the field and clearing the way; Scald for the primary damage move, hoping for burns on their physical sweepers so that it may make the opponent as miserable as possible. Finally, the choice between U-Turn and Substitute stems from what your team is prepared to handle: U-Turn allows the switch to a proper check or counter, while Substitute allows Greninja extra time for hazards and burns, proving difficult to take down simply due to its massive speed stat.

 

[Circa]

I like how Delphox was given solid stats for OU potential, and then they shafted it by not allowing any sort of Fighting or Fairy-type moves for full type coverage, or even Nasty Plot to cover up those coverages (I guess it does get Calm Mind...but still).

They also didn't give it Fling. They didn't give Fling to either of the Pokemon that have Magician, in fact. I'm very, very sad by that. It would have been a really cool gimmick.

 

[mood4food77]

it doesn't get calm mind by TM at least, i was disappointed, i'm fairly certain it might be the only psychic type outside of wynaut and wobbuffet to not get focus blast

there's always using a gem set to make magician work, like fire gem to power up fire blast, too bad her speed stat is quite disappointing

 

[UltiMario]

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/pokebankoubeta-58298040

Idk I heard I was ok at Pokemon guys

Also half the **** on my team will eventually be ubers but that's beside the point

 

[mood4food77]

why the **** did he waste so many turns recovering when he could have straight up killed garchomp after like...one use

that was infuriating

 

[UltiMario]

he wanted as much health as possible while chomp was dead to try and deal with Gene

That obviously wasn't going to work out either way, though.

 

[IC3R]

it doesn't get calm mind by TM at least, i was disappointed, i'm fairly certain it might be the only psychic type outside of wynaut and wobbuffet to not get focus blast

there's always using a gem set to make magician work, like fire gem to power up fire blast, too bad her speed stat is quite disappointing

Delphox has been confirmed to learn Calm Mind via TM04, and I am quite disappointed with the neglecting of Focus Blast in its movepool, robbing the magical vulpine of a powerful coverage move.

 

[mood4food77]

then it's 2nd form couldn't

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I'm interested in trying a protean Greninja since he's all the rage but I don't have a friend safari with him

 

[choknater]

noooo!!! mega-banette with destiny bond is illegal. scrapping the team~ lol

 

[mood4food77]

why is mega-banette illegal with destiny bond?

 

[UltiMario]

It isn't you can just breed a female shuppet with a male wobbuffet and you get it.

 

[choknater]

apparently the banette needed to mega evolve is an event banette that has cursed body? so it can't breed

something like that idk

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Why wouldn't ANY banette be able to mega evolve?

 

[UltiMario]

Any banette can mega evolve into mega, regardless of ability. Chok you're believing stuff like this is the kindergarten playground or something.

 

[choknater]

ah man

but what's wrong with a kindergarten playground?

 

[UltiMario]

It's full of lies, chok, LIES.

 

[choknater]

hehe. oh well

even with the rest of the strategy, i still literally lost to a guy named pikachuslayer69 with 1200 ELO

using a way more solid team now haha

 

[Gamegenie222]

So what pokes are looking hot and cheap right now for X/Y for the meta I haven't got the game yet and was curious about this? Also whats the status on mega-evolution cause I wanna use Mega-Blaziken with that speed boost since I wasn't able to in 5th gen before it got sent to Uber?

 

[UltiMario]

It already got sent to Ubers. It was only available for play yesterday and a little bit earlier today, by this afternoon (EST) it was banned.

 

[Wave⁂]

OFFICIAL MEGA EVOLUTION TIER LIST

APPROVED BY SMOGON, NINTENDO OF AMERICA, AND /VP/

Top Tier:
MEGA AGGRON

Bottom Tier:
EVERYONE ELSE

 

[UltiMario]

If we're talking badassery then yes

If we're talking goodness after lucarionite and gegarite get banned, also yes

 

[choknater]

unfortunately mega-blaze is already uber on PO. LOL. too late bro!

right now out of the new stuff, aegislash is looking pretty good, albeit predictable. the new legendaries zygarde and yveltal are pretty good, though i don't know if they will be sent to uber (or if they already are?) florges and goodra are great new special walls who can do cool things

overall adjusting to the new type chart has taken some time, but i like it now that i've gotten used to it. buffs to electric, grass, poison and ghost. nerfs to dragon, and tweaks to dark/steel.

weather nerfed

right now everything seems to have counters and all the stuff that was good in gen 5 is still pretty good, except outrage spam was hit pretty hard by the fairy type

also:

right now i'm using SD toxicroak. it seems to be able to handle all the new trends! i'm also using my prankster murkrow which counters aegislash (most of the time!), and it can also swagger malamar to lower it's attack. LOL!