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Pokemon X and Y: Competitive Gen VI Discussion

Wave⁂

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Yeah, there's going to be quite a few Megas that get exiled to Ubers because they're head and shoulders above everything that is remotely OU, but are worse than the insane Megas. I'd be tempted to say that they'd have their own BL tier, if Ubers wasn't a tier list so much as a ban list.
 

#HBC | Laundry

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Ubers is supposed to be a banlist? Not sure what you're saying with the second half of your post.

I don't even know. Every time I see these Megas, I think "their stats compensate for the lack of offensive item they can hold" and yet as soon as I think they're okay, people post calcs of them doing insane damage to standard walls and all I can say is "welp somehow this is happening". I know where the power's coming from--there's gotta be a reason to Mega Evolve or else no one would use it--but due to the distribution, it turned good to acceptable pokemon into absolute monsters. I like the concept of making these like super weapons that you have one of because it creates really interesting mindgame scenarios and allows for a new level of strategizing but they just...overdid it. The ones that went to Pokemon that were OU or around it just seem obscene and the ones that weren't just seem lackluster in comparison.
 

Wave⁂

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Ubers isn't like OU, where you have the top X Pokemon used, with some arguably arbitrary cutoff in terms of relative popularity. Ubers is just Pokemon who aren't allowed in OU, like how BL is Pokemon who aren't allowed in UU. That's why nothing will ever get banned from Ubers, because banning from a banlist is silly.
 

mood4food77

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the only two mega evos i see going to ubers are blaziken and gengar

blaziken being uber is going to happen anyways, now that DW abilities can be passed down by the male, so regular DW blaziken with speed boost will be banned, so will mega blaziken

i just think gengar's offensive presence is too good to have shadow tag as an ability, it'll probably last a month in OU before banned (the mega evo that is)

everything else seems fine
 

UltiMario

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mega gar going to ubers is iffy at this point. Shadow tag doesn't have the negative stigma it used to, and there's no turn 0 lock and no choice scarf for you to use, super dampening it. I'd think something like Mega Lucario with 150/150/120 adaptability offenses in addition to having normal LO Gengar (who will for sure be top 10 this gen, mega or not) as a back-up
 

mood4food77

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idk, shadow tag is still pretty broke

i will say though, i'm using helioptile on my in game team and an electric type eith dry skin is pretty dope, that could have some uses
 

#HBC | Laundry

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mega gar going to ubers is iffy at this point. Shadow tag doesn't have the negative stigma it used to, and there's no turn 0 lock and no choice scarf for you to use, super dampening it. I'd think something like Mega Lucario with 150/150/120 adaptability offenses in addition to having normal LO Gengar (who will for sure be top 10 this gen, mega or not) as a back-up
I still think it's likely, given that I think it's also likely that Chandelure ultimately gets banned as well. It was the first thing to go on PO's server way early in Gen 5 (even though it wasn't released) and Megagar, even if it wasn't used for that purpose beforehand, will likely take over and still get banned anyway. It may not happen immediately but I still see it happening in the long run. Also, Chandelure wishes it had that speed stat so it could run other items, especially the capability of switching attacks for when Blissey/Heatran/Gengar come in to absorb Shadow Ball/Overheat/HP: Fighting. Instead, it's practically forced into being scarfed to make use of its power, so that practically ensures Gengar hits harder than it and can still change attacks.

It's just dependent on what you want, really. This is the drawback of Megas on a whole is that you can only have one (thankfully so), so you have to be careful about your choice. Xonar was talking to me yesterday about the strengths of megazard y and I still wouldn't run it over things like Megacham, Megazam, Megagar, Megario, and Megaken.
 

mood4food77

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megablaziken is going straight to ubers, maybe even without testing (and i assume regular blaziken would as well), baton pass on him just takes him way over the top

i don't think megazam will even be used, losing magic guard doesn't seem to be worth it

i wanna see megaskhan in action, it seems unique enough to use moves that we otherwise wouldn't (stat lowering attacks, spite, etc)
 

mood4food77

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we could have a situation where the difference in speed could affect the outcome, while i highly doubt it will, still could bring that possibility

i think those are really the main differences between the mega evos and their counterparts (minus a few of them)
 

Circa

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I know it's still going to be a gimmick, but I'm glad Mega Mawile (and maybe Mega Banette; I haven't seen its base stats yet) gives Trick Room teams something to work with.
 

UltiMario

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apparently Litwick's DW ability is now infliltrator

rip chandelure
 

mood4food77

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i think some pokes got a 4th ability

scoilipede has speed boost

for whatever reason, helioptile learns surf
 

UltiMario

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nah, old DW abilities are retconned

Scolipede can now only get Quick Feet from Gen 5

Since ST Chandy was never released, it flat out never gets ST ever.
 

mood4food77

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welllll...thats dumb, what about the starters?

so nuzzle over twave seems like a pretty cool option, deal damage and paralyze? why not
 

mood4food77

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i was going to teach my greninja surf and then i saw that helioptile could learn it

so let's see if it'll learn flamethrower
 

UltiMario

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On the other hand, Contrary Serperior showed up.

Also noting that some Pokemon got minor stat changes, we're not sure if they're accidental or not though.
 

Circa

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Is there a list compiled of said Pokemon? I saw that it was announced, but I didn't see any list of what Pokemon.
 

The Real Gamer

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I just realized a Return from Mega Khangaskhan is the equivalent of using a 306 Base Power move (yes 306 that's even stronger than a STAB Hyper Beam).

Return = 102 base power at max happiness + STAB (102/2 = 51) = 153 base power + parental bond ability (x2) = 306 base power.

That... That's just nuts.

EDIT: So apparently the 2nd attack is weakened by a certain amount... Still stronger than a STAB hyper beam.
 

choknater

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aegislash and contrary malamar is super good

and i thought toxicroak was a hard counter to greninja, but greninja gets extrasensory. greninja is a pretty great spiker haha.
 

Wave⁂

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Yeah, one of the earlier Mega reveal videos that showcased Megakhan showed that the second hit does considerably less damage.

I'm mostly interested in Megakhan not just for the power boost, but any possible abuse of the pseudo-Serene Grace effect.
 

Circa

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So...something like 105/100/100 defenses with 125 Ark and 100 Speed, and it's getting the equivalent of a Choice Band attached to it where every move in its arsenal can now hit through subs and activate twice?

What the ****?
 

The Real Gamer

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So...something like 105/100/100 defenses with 125 Ark and 100 Speed, and it's getting the equivalent of a Choice Band attached to it where every move in its arsenal can now hit through subs and activate twice?

What the ****?

Welcome to the world of Mega Evolution.

Please enjoy your stay.
 

Plum

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So MegaKhan gets to turn Power-Up Punch into a 60 BP Swords Dance? That sounds pretty sweet.
Looks like you don't get the phazing on both attacks if you double up on Circle Throw which is a shame. I would have loved to just force constant entry hazard damage...

Also find it funny that it has a pseudo Serene Grace. Stomp + Body Slam for ParaFlinch rage. Although that does leave you very vulnerable to ghosts. Then again, if you run Scrappy as your non-Mega ability you might be able to just get them by not evolving right away. Although coming off its base 95 attack without evolving I can't imagine it hurting too much, especially when it can't have a band or orb.
It's a shame he's just normal typing though. I feel like fighting types are still just going to walk over him in general.

So far the megas that are impressing me are Scizor for the bulky Swords Dance potential, Blastoise for a spinner that dumps on blockers with the Mega Launcher boosted Dark Pulse, Lucario getting some crazy high mixed offensive stats plus a lot of speed along with Adaptability to help make up the loss of its item seems very strong.
I'm not sure about Blaziken, Gyaradose, maybe Venusaur.
The Mega Zards would be good if it weren't for Stealth Rock basically. They both probably require too much support to really be worth it.
Mega Gengar looks overhyped to me. Yeah, Shadow Tag is a great ability, but they still have the chance to switch in before you actually get to use Shadow Tag. It also takes super effective damage from ground again which is a big deal.
I think Gengar is still hella good and will be as fantastic as he's been, but Mega Gengar I'm iffy on.

I really didn't like Gen V for a lot of the changes it made, but so far I'm really liking what GameFreak has done with Gen VI. It seems like there was actually a decrease in power. Don't know if that's true or not, but to me it feels like it is. No more permanent weather, a lot of moves getting base power reduction especially Hidden Power, and it looks like there are just better options this time around for slower strategies which I'm all for.
I assume team preview is still a thing? Don't think I'll ever get over that one, but oh well. I'm still looking forward to getting back into things this gen.
 

UltiMario

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Gengar might actually end up hella good on stall teams

It can eliminate opposing spinners while proving as a spinblocker, which in stall vs stall (or even stall vs balance) decides games on its own.
 

ss118

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All of the mega's seem pretty underwhelming except for a few... but for discussion purposes(and the fact this is my first post here in forever) I'll go through them all.

Venusaur - A pretty well-designed defensive mega evolution, with the ability to actually last thanks to leech seed / synthesis(combined with weather nerfs). Poison/ Grass was never the worse defensive typing, and aggressively it got a lot better, but still not vs steels. 80 Speed with 122 Sp. Attack is also not negligible.

Charizard - As a whole, Mega Charizard as a whole needed a bit of a speed buff, but neither version got it unfortunately. Charizard Y with drought and a very high sp. attack stat makes it a pretty dangerous attacker that brings sun utility with the weakness that both inducers of drought have issues with SR. Charizard X is a better sweeper with STAB outrage + flare blitz, better bulk + typing, and Dragon Dance. It also isn't as weak to SR and priority, but still somewhat suffers.

Blastoise - A glorified rapid spinner, imo. I think we need more data on how his ability works before I can make a real judgement call on him, but he seems to just have power behind him without fixing any of his core issues as a pokemon.

Alakazam - Suffers similarly to Blastoise: does a lot of what he used to do without solving any of his issues. If anything, losing Magic Guard + sash is rather saddening for him, not to mention Mega Gengar does his job similarly.

Gengar - This guy is going to disrupt the flow of defensive teams; Ghost not being resisted by steel is HUGE, which combined with his Poison STAB makes it more difficult to wall. Blissey / Chansey have to deal with Sub/ Taunt/ Pain Split/ numerous other sets in some fashion.

Kangaskhan - Pretty interesting, but losing scrappy is unfortunate. Maybe be the only decent user of power-up punch.

Pinsir - I do not know his movepool, but his numbers say he's ok, but bug/ flying isn't the best, even with flying return STAB. Close Combat / EQ help with steels I guess, but Skarmory still stops it.

Gyarados - One of the worst megas, imo. The only thing it can do better is maybe the resttalk set with DD and waterfall thanks to mold breaker and MUCH superior defenses. Gyarados' Intimidate and flying typing actually help it more in a metagame with mega lucario around.

Mega Aerodactyl - Pretty neat, but unless he got better attacks his sweeping capabilities are determined underwhelming by the same problems, and the SR set really wants the sash and using a mega for a suicide pokemon is meh.

Mewtwo - I'm still torn. 140 speed on Y with that sp attack is awesome combined with Insomnia and no recoil, but regular mewtwo can deal more damage with LO, less speed, and not take up the mega slot. X is weird because it deals less overall damage due to his physical movepool being ****ty, but Aura Sphere does more damage on him than even LO mewtwo and he is bulkier with better defensive typing... it will be sad if the best MegaMewtwo X set is an all-special set. SubPunch maybe?

Ampharos - Cool and decently bulky with a great sp. attack stat to work from, but speed is just an issue on it.

Scizor - Bulky sets are going to love this form, but honestly Scizor is probably just best sticking with CB to the end of time.

Heracross - That attack stat is VERY scary! However, speed is just an issue on it and it can't use scarf to patch it up. I don't know if it gets more damage by trying to abuse skill link, but it seems like a rather wasted ability slot as well... T_T

Houndoom - I really like this because it's so COOL! Ghost resist is going to be big and even though this is flimsy, 90 defenses aren't the worst, so maybe...? It's gonna be fun for sun teams to try and abuse, though.

Tyranitar - On something without recovery options, I think you really need the extra leftovers. Mega Tyranitar is going to be more useful in rotation battles, where you can use the mega evolution to extend the sand stream as well as providing a good ghost resist... Tyranitar is going to be HUGE this generation because it's the only truly good defensive dark type, I am just not sure how its mega form will be able to compete for the slot of mega's.

Blaziken - ...Mega Blaziken just emphasizes everything that made Blaziken ridiculous. Maybe Azumarill will rain on its parade, but honestly aside from that we are looking at mostly the same pokemon with a buff.

Gardevoir - I think they should have made it a tad tankier thanks to the big dress, but whatever. Fairy / Psychic is pretty good typing, just it has too many problems with steel types.

Mawile - ... I think they did RATHER A GOOD JOB. Speed hurts, but a pokemon with this typing and natural attack stat is pretty cool. Problem is what it does with the turns it gains... it can be a cool SD passer that actually hurts if they try to wall it.

Aggron - Nintendo finally learned that rock type was so bad defensively it lost it entirely. I think they mistyped the name from "Mega Registeel", because that's how it looks like it will act. Obv sp. defensive isn't the best to be so comparable to, and speed... meh. You can try a rock polish/ steel type speed boost thingy to try and sweep.

Medicham - That High Jump Kick hurts! It also isn't the most fragile, so without LO wearing it down it isn't the easily to kill off, but ONLY 100 speed with no way to upset that means you have to set it up properly.

Manetric - Volt Switch the pokemon!

Banette - 165 attack shadow sneak and priority destiny bond in an attempt to go 2 for 1 seems like the best way to play it out, with priority taunt being useful as well and then some random coverage move finishing everything out.

Absol - Cool, but not really worth the slot. Too much was spent increasing its special attack which means a mixed set would be better, but not sure if it would be worth it still. Being a magic bounce baton passer is cool, though. Sucker Punch/ Fire Blast/ SD/ BP? idk

Garchomp - Lost speed? No thanks. Garchomp didn't need to hit harder, though I guess if you want to **** up togekiss you can(on the turn it comes in) mega evolve then SE it with SS going. Worth? maybe. it got some additional bulk to work with I guess, but the lost speed... just ew.

Lucario - The BEST mega evolution, in my opinion. Lucario's issues in previous generations were his lower speed and occasional inability to fit in an SD due to its fragile nature. While mega lucario is only just a tiny bit bulkier physically, it's SO MUCH STRONGER that it can literally 2HKO anything with 12.5% damage(SR vs Skarmory, Spikes vs Hippowdon). I'm going to run:

Lucario @ Lucarionite
Dark attacked increasing ability: Jolly
4 HP, 252 Attack, 252 Speed
Close Combat
Crunch
Ice Punch
Bullet Punch

Ice punch beats chomp / gliscor/ zapdos / random flying things, crunch for ghosts, and Close Combat everything else you can. No need for SD, imo.

Abomasnow - I don't know what it's attacking stats are because i read 130/ 150 on smogon and 132/132 on serebii. Regardless, it got a HUGE boost and if you want a hail team you want this monster.
 

UltiMario

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this just in, art shows up outta nowhere and hasn't lost his touch

btw Mega Launcher makes Pulse moves increase by 50%, plus aura sphere. "STAB" Dark Pulse will make it a pretty good spinner, and as such a pretty good Stall Mega.

also some random scrub from smogon came out of nowhere and confirmed that the contrary serperior picture came from the battle maison partners, which means it's not actually released. Sucks. It didn't get retconned, though, so there's still hope for it to be released eventually.
 

Silverjay323

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Mega Evos
Imma disagree with you on a few there. Ampharos was never able to outspeed much of anything so the trade of for the bulk is welcome, Mega Garchomp, while losing speed, becomes bulkier and Sand force makes it an extremely powerful sweeper. Gengar's the scariest IMO with STAB sludge bomb and Shadow Tag? No thanks. I'm thinking he's gonna be the first to be banned along with Blaziken possibly. My favorite is actually Venusaur, who could be ridiculous on sun teams (although weather teams have been severely nerfed) Sleep powder/Leech Seed/Synthesis/Sludge Bomb(or Solar Beam/Giga Drain) for an effective wall on most pokemon. * HP fire could be used to take out steels.
 

The Real Gamer

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Just fought in an inverse battle today for the first time (super effective attacks are now not very effective and vice-versa)... I think a metagame revolving around it would be a lot of fun. Types with a lot of weaknesses like Bug would become power houses while types that resist a bunch of **** like Steel would get demolished by like everything.
 

UltiMario

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but Belly Drum Linoone just kinda walks over everything
 
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