Pokemon Sun and Pokemon Moon Released! Discuss here!

[Deleted member]

Agreed well hopefully we'll find out soon enough.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I miss the notepad app and the breeding app in gen 4

 

[Tizio Random]

Hey guys! Pokémon Millennium, the main source of information in Italy about Pokémon, just posted a theory about the plot of Sun and Moon, and I think this will be pretty much what will happen. Note that they were the first to theorize that the region of Sun and Moon will be in based on Hawaii, they are incredible at this kind of things and this is just one example. I will try to explain this the best I can because it's really long and I can't realistically hope to explain it in a optimal way. Here it is:

Spoiler

Sun and Moon will base their plot on alchemy. In the previous games, OR/AS, they were talking about this project called AZOTH. Azoth is the main "element" in alchemy (I think it's more or less the philosopher's stone, sorry if I mess up something about alchemy).
There is a book regarding Azoth by Basil Valentine, a great alchimist, that has this image representing the sun and moon with a lion and an eagle connected. This is obviously a reference to Solgaleo and Lunaala.
What's really interesting is that during Sun and Moon development, precisely in 2014, there was this rare phenomenon where a lunar eclipse and an alignment of Mars with Earth and the Sun happened at the same time, causing the planet to appear much brighter. There is a third trademark registered for Sun and Moon: Marshadow. Marshadow will be the main focus of the villain team: this Pokémon will have some kind of connection to immortality or power in general, will see. It will be probably "invoked" by taming the two other legendaries and their respective gems, which are depicted on the logos of the japanese cover arts for the games.
Other curious facts that reinforce this theory are:

• the name of the man that in the 19th movie creates Magearna is Eliphas, like Eliphas Levi, an imporant alchimist
• Litten has on his head a symbol amazingly similar to the cross of Brimstone, symbol for sulfur, a crucial element in alchemy

I tried to explain the theory as much as I could because it's incredibly articulated and the video is only in italian. Translating everything is a work I can't do. I hope you enjoyed, if any question, I will gladly give you all the answers I can.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

There is one thing that needs to be fixed up for the 7th generation, and it has to deal with the 1-hit KO attacks. As we all know, the 1-hit KO attacks are infamous for being very cheap, as their only flaw is that they don't work on higher leveled Pokemon, which is extremely irrelevant at all the battle facilities.

If anything, the 1-hit KO attacks should take a page from their 1st generation mechanics.

Basically, to make the 1-hit KO attacks be less cheap, they will not work at all if the user's speed value is less than that of its target. As such, the user has to either increase its own speed (whether it's by using items or abilities), or decrease its opponent's speed, if it wants the 1-hit KO attack to work.

Items like Quick Claw and Lagging Tail will "not" affect if the 1-hit KO attack will work, as they don't affect the item holder's speed value at all. As such, if the user of the 1-hit KO attack is holding onto the Lagging Tail, the 1-hit KO attack can still work if the user's speed value is greater than that of its target. Similarly, if the user of the 1-hit KO attack is holding onto the Quick Claw, even if the Quick Claw activates, the 1-hit KO attack will not work if the user's speed value is less than that of its target.

Similarly, Pokemon with the Stall ability can still be unaffected by 1-hit KO attacks if their speed value is greater than that of the attacker's speed value.

If Trick Room is in effect, then the effects of all 1-hit KO attacks will be reversed; they will only work if the user's speed value is "less" than that of its target.

The user's level no longer determines if the 1-hit KO attack will work or not, and all 1-hit KO attacks will have 30% accuracy, regardless of the level difference between the user and its target. The accuracy of the 1-hit KO attacks can be modified by any evasion and accuracy modifiers that are in effect, but they will always fail if the attacker is slower (faster while Trick Room is active) than its target.

If the user and target have the exact same speed value, then the 1-hit KO attack can still work.

If the target's ability is Sturdy, it is completely immune to all 1-hit KO attacks, even if it's slower (faster while Trick Room is active) than the attacker.

Now, for some examples...

• Level 50 Rapidash vs. Level 100 Rhyperior
  • Rapidash's speed: 172
  • Rhyperior's speed: 85
  • Rapidash used Horn Drill.
  • Horn Drill will affect Rhyperior if it hits, as Rapidash's speed is greater than Rhyperior's speed.
• Level 50 Trapinch vs. Level 50 Sableye
  • Trapinch's speed: 15
  • Sableye's speed: 55
  • Sableye's ability is Stall.
  • Trapinch used Fissure.
  • Fissure will have no effect on Sableye, as even though Stall causes Sableye to move after Trapinch, Trapinch's speed is less than Sableye's speed.
    • If Trick Room is active, then Trapinch's Fissure "will" affect Sableye if it hits.
• Level 50 Kingler vs. Level 50 Sceptile
  • Kingler's speed: 139
  • Sceptile's speed: 189
  • Trick Room is active.
  • Kingler used Guillotine.
  • With Trick Room active, Guillotine will affect Sceptile if it hits, as Kingler's speed is less than Sceptile's speed.
    • If Trick Room is NOT active, then Kingler's Guillotine will have no effect on Sceptile.
• Level 50 Haxorus vs. Level 50 Magnezone
  • Haxorus's speed: 163
  • Magnezone's speed: 80
  • Magnezone's ability is Sturdy.
  • Haxorus used Guillotine.
  • Although Haxorus's speed is greater than Magnezone's speed, Magnezone's Sturdy ability renders Haxorus's Guillotine ineffective.
    • If Haxorus's ability is Mold Breaker, it can bypass Sturdy, enabling Guillotine to affect Magnezone if it hits.

 

[Tizio Random]

I like this idea but I think that the simplest and best way to deal with KO moves is making them work only on weaker leveled Pokémon, so that the moves will not work in a competitive setting where all Pokémon are at the same level.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I like this idea but I think that the simplest and best way to deal with KO moves is making them work only on weaker leveled Pokémon, so that the moves will not work in a competitive setting where all Pokémon are at the same level.

Well, the idea is that players (including CPU trainers) will have to put in more effort into using the 1-hit KO attacks. In other words, relying on Quick Claw to get a cheap 1-hit KO in (which is something that the CPU trainers are infamous for) will NOT work if the attacker is slower (faster if Trick Room is active) than its target.

And of course, another reason for this is to keep the threat of seeing No Guard Machamps with Fissure from being too powerful. Sure, Flying-types are completely safe from Fissure, but you won't always have them around to save you.

 

[Aetheri]

So apparently on the official japanese website there were a couple unused typings found within the site's coding...

Ground and Fighting, were found along with Grass, Flying, Fire, and Water which are the starters' typings...

He suggests that Litten will be Fire/Ground while Popplio will become Water/Fighting in this video...though what doesn't make sense is how Ground is listed before Fire...perhaps Rowlet will become a Ground type based on a burrowing owl, maybe?

or perhaps these typings are not related to the starters and are for other unreleased pokemon? but once again doesn't make sense considering the order of the images on the site...

 

[Deleted member]

All really fascinating news. Guess we'll find out more in time.

 

[Fluttershy]

I'm honestly hoping they make the crit chance 0 with nothing boosting the chance of crits. Critical hits should only occur with items, abilities, or moves. the way crits work is Ok as it counters buffs like cosmic power, bulk up, or calm mind but it should be made into a viable strategy. and lower +3 chance a bit to balance it out and make moves that can remove buffs more widespread. But they should make the neutral crit to 0 and force the opponent to adapt to using buff counters..

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Critical hits have already been weakened in that the damage multiplier is now 1.5x, instead of the original 2x.

Besides, there has to be a chance for an attack to score a critical hit, since there are attacks that have increased critical hit rates (and of course there's Frost Breath and Storm Throw, which always delivers critical hits). If you don't want to take critical hits, you can always refer to Lucky Chant, Shell Armor, and Battle Armor.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

So apparently on the official japanese website there were a couple unused typings found within the site's coding...

Ground and Fighting, were found along with Grass, Flying, Fire, and Water which are the starters' typings...

He suggests that Litten will be Fire/Ground while Popplio will become Water/Fighting in this video...though what doesn't make sense is how Ground is listed before Fire...perhaps Rowlet will become a Ground type based on a burrowing owl, maybe?

or perhaps these typings are not related to the starters and are for other unreleased pokemon? but once again doesn't make sense considering the order of the images on the site...

I did theorize that Popplio would be Water/ Fighting

But Ground/ Fire...that's strange. That is completely different than ANYONE has really theorized

Fire/ Ground weak to ground and 4x to water, but looses rock weakness

It's resistances are basically useless.

However, being fire ground would most likely give him access to powerful rock and ground attacks such as earthquake and stone edge - ASSUMING he's physical. Otherwise he'd probably have Earth Power and MAYBE Power Gem

 

[IsmaR]

It's more in line with the idea of brimstone/sulfur than poison or dark, IMO.

 

[LancerStaff]

My biggest problem with that is that, unless you look it up, no one is gonna KNOW about that. It may happen on accident, but if it doesn't than you could be at lvl. 75 wondering how long this is gonna take. Worse than Sliggoo though is Inkay. I mean, Who randomly turns their 3DS while a pokemon levels up? I feel like if you have to look up this kinda stuff just to get an evolution, than it's too convoluted. I guess the same could be said with stone and trade evolutions, but I don't think quite the same about those... huh. Call me fickle I guess

In XY there's a sign on a raining route telling you to train Sliggoo in the rain, and an NPC tells you about Malamar. Something probably tells you about Pancham...

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Oh, this is interesting.

You know how ground is before fire?

WELL, an alternative to Litten being Ground/ Fire

Rowlett could eventually become Grass/ Ground and Litten could stay pure fire

I don't really LIKE that idea, but it is an idea

 

[atreyujames]

In XY there's a sign on a raining route telling you to train Sliggoo in the rain, and an NPC tells you about Malamar. Something probably tells you about Pancham...

No, the sign says "Some Pokemon may evolve if they gain a level while it's raining". Not specific to Sliggoo at all. Also, there is a Lad that says "I like to look at things with my head upside down! Do you think Pokemon do too?" which is the only reference to Inkay that I know. As far as I know, Nothing alludes to Panchams evolution method.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

"Leaks"

http://deenji.deviantart.com/journal/SUN-MOON-STARTERS-FINAL-STAGE-LEAKED-609320733

 

[Deleted member]

"Leaks"

http://deenji.deviantart.com/journal/SUN-MOON-STARTERS-FINAL-STAGE-LEAKED-609320733

Looks fake to me

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Looks fake to me

That horrifying clown fits the Water/ Fighting type

That Fire cat is kind of boring though

 

[AEMehr]

Those don't even really look like "Pokemon" lol.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

They don't look ANYTHING like the same art style as the rest of the pokemon

Edit: IF litten really looks that boring, I'm going to be really disappointed

It's just a puma with it's tail lit on fire

 

[Deleted member]

That horrifying clown fits the Water/ Fighting type

That Fire cat is kind of boring though

I really hope that's not Poplio's actual evolution...
It looks ugly as ****

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Apparently I'm not the only person that finds that Litten evo boring, so that's good

 

[Deleted member]

Apparently I'm not the only person that finds that Litten evo boring, so that's good

I personally never cared for Litten to begin with, but that evolution makes Umbreon look interesting imo

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Oh my, those full evolution drawings look very horrendous.

 

[Moorthen]

That Popplio evolution looks like something out of a nightmare lol.

 

[Murlough]

Rowlet's second stage looks decent imo. It's final form is random and hopefully not what nintendo goes with.

 

[Aetheri]

The artstyle for those designs are very different than Sugimori's usual style, much more on the side of realism...

 

[Deleted member]

"Leaks"

http://deenji.deviantart.com/journal/SUN-MOON-STARTERS-FINAL-STAGE-LEAKED-609320733

Litten's final evolution looks lazy.
Popplio's final evolution just looks dumb, especially with that face. That is just a face that you would find in a meme.
Rowlet's final evolution looks OK, but it's kind of creepy.

I hope this isn't what the final evolutions will be like.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Serebii "Debunked" the rumors saying there is no way ground would be in the wrong order

The problem with his "Debunk"... It doesn't take into account Rowlett evolving into a Grass/ Ground.

Then it wouldn't be in the wrong order

 

[Deleted member]

Serebii "Debunked" the rumors saying there is no way ground would be in the wrong order

The problem with his "Debunk"... It doesn't take into account Rowlett evolving into a Grass/ Ground.

Then it wouldn't be in the wrong order

I doubt it would be grass/ground
I doubt they would have gave it a flying type to begin with only to remove it on its evolution

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I don't think there is any reason to believe it's impossible. There is no rule it can't

And this seems to be the most evidence we have at this point.

IF new pokemon pop up and they are ground and fighting types next month or so, and they use those images of the types

Then sure, it's bebunked.

But, there is no reason to debunk it until evidence happens

 

[Murlough]

There is no reason to assume it as the truth either.

A random typing found on the japanese sight is not "evidence."

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

There is no reason to assume it as the truth either.

A random typing found on the japanese sight is not "evidence."

Image 1 was grass, image 2 was flying image 3 was ground, image 4 was fire, image 5 was water, image 6 was fighting

Image 1 and 2 directly connect to Rowlet

Image 4 directly connects with Litten

Image 5 directly connects with Popplio

Since the images are so closely associated with the starters already, it's a pretty good guess that the others in between do as well

Until there is evidence they don't, I believe the chances they do is the more likely option

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

If we're sorting typings by type image order, then Litten should've been Ground/Fire, and not once has a starter ever had Grass, Fire, or Water be a secondary typing.

 

[Murlough]

Image 1 was grass, image 2 was flying image 3 was ground, image 4 was fire, image 5 was water, image 6 was fighting

Image 1 and 2 directly connect to Rowlet

Image 4 directly connects with Litten

Image 5 directly connects with Popplio

Since the images are so closely associated with the starters already, it's a pretty good guess that the others in between do as well

Until there is evidence they don't, I believe the chances they do is the more likely option

Doesn't change the fact that it is not evidence.

Until Nintendo announces the next stages in the starter's evolutions no one should assume anything. That goes for you as well.

"People shouldn't assume that Rowlett can't get the ground typing." is something you said while assuming that he will over just another "leak."

Your theory is just as good as another's, why? Because it is just a theory until Nintendo (or Gamefreak whatever) reveals what the starters will evolve into.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

If we're sorting typings by type image order, then Litten should've been Ground/Fire, and not once has a starter ever had Grass, Fire, or Water be a secondary typing.

Or Rowlett evolves into Grass/ Ground and Litten is pure fire

Doesn't change the fact that it is not evidence.

Until Nintendo announces the next stages in the starter's evolutions no one should assume anything. That goes for you as well.

"People shouldn't assume that Rowlett can't get the ground typing." is something you said while assuming that he will over just another "leak."
on
Your theory is just as good as another's, why? Because it is just a theory until Nintendo (or Gamefreak whatever) reveals what the starters will evolve into.

I don't see how it's not evidence when it's directly with the typings of the starters. Why would Nintendo put up typings in random orders? It's not like they all the typings with images either. Just those ones.

It's more likely they are than not, especially when any other theory at this point has NOTHING to stand

 

[LancerStaff]

Isn't there still a "missing" DLC stage if you look at the code for the SSB4 site? These could legitimately mean nothing and never get used.

 

[Murlough]

Or Rowlett evolves into Grass/ Ground and Litten is pure fire


I don't see how it's not evidence when it's directly with the typings of the starters. Why would Nintendo put up typings in random orders? It's not like they all the typings with images either. Just those ones.

It's more likely they are than not, especially when any other theory at this point has NOTHING to stand

It isn't evidence because it doesn't prove anything. It really isn't that complicated.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

It isn't evidence because it doesn't prove anything. It really isn't that complicated.

Evidence doesn't need to prove something.

"the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid"

Indicating, as in showing as suggestion of

Evidence is suggesting something is true. That's why there can be evidence for issues that swing either way

It's just the facts we have available that show it's leaning in one directions.

It is leaning toward them being related to the starters and unless more evidence comes in to lean another way, there is no reason to dismiss it

 

[LancerStaff]

Hm... Anybody mind dropping a link to the page where the hidden typing tags were found?