Meta Pokemon Stadium - Mewtwo General Matchup Thread

[Kalierdarke]

Sm4sh is different from melee, but these concepts still exist. Just because a throw doesn't give you a guaranteed followup doesn't mean it's bad at all.

I tell that to people with Seismic Toss on charizard all the time. Sure it's far from his best throw option but it still has uses. Granted, M2's downthrow is better than Seismic Toss at all times.

 

[Sparky15]

The up-tilt hitbox that barely lifts the opponent can lead into an up-smash as a true combo if there's enough hitstun and is within its reach. An easy way to ensure that the hitbox lands is doing a jab. I just have a problem with connecting it on large characters, like Donkey Kong and R.O.B.

 

[flying_tortoise]

Well that's what I'm sorta discussing here. People seem to go for stuff that isn't there instead of thinking what downthrow actually gives them.

Honestly, in melee downthrow isn't much different, as it only gives combos if your opponent messes up a really easy DI. It is still a great throw though, because if they DI away they give up a lot of stage, and if they don't DI away/tech away they are in danger of tech-chasing. Once you have them in a tech chase, it's easy then to simply prevent them from rolling through you (so that they have stage control) and to slowly press them closer to the ledge. Once they are close to the ledge, they don't have the space they need to escape and are forced to take the offensive from a disadvantaged position. This doesn't always mean you get stuff out of it, but it averages out so that you win the majority due to stacking the odds against your opponent.

Sm4sh is different from melee, but these concepts still exist. Just because a throw doesn't give you a guaranteed followup doesn't mean it's bad at all.

seems like from your other post that you don't have a wii u. Pity cuz I'd love to play you sometime. Seems like it'd be a lot of fun. Great summary of smash fundamentals on your post b4 this one.

The up-tilt hitbox that barely lifts the opponent can lead into an up-smash as a true combo if there's enough hitstun and is within its reach. An easy way to ensure that the hitbox lands is doing a jab. I just have a problem with connecting it on large characters, like Donkey Kong and R.O.B.

huh...so easier with smaller characters.

 

[Stormfury12]

Mewtwo vs Mario is 50:50 tbh. Mewtwo is easy to kill and Mario is all good at comboing and has a lot of safe options. Mew two can kill easily tho and his sideB reflects so he can kind of mess up Marios Ngame if they use Fire balls. The main thing that hurts Mew2 here is how easy he is to kill and mario also has a reflector of his own which complicates Shadow ball zoning a bit.

Mewtwo vs Ganondorf 30:70. While close I believe Ganon has the advantage. He's heavy, hits way harder, and is hard to kill. since customs are allowed he isn't as easy to gimp either.

Mewtwo vs Sheik 30:70. Shiek has insane combo game and is so fast that mew two has trouble against her. The main disadvantage sheik has is killing, but it isn't TOO big to a disadvantage since BF, Usmash, and Fsmash can kill Mew2 easily plus Mew2 is really easy to kill and he's big.

Thats just some general stuff I've picked up the past few days really.

 

[Sparky15]

Does anyone have any issues with Bowser? Bowser is potentially a terrible matchup beacause he has strong and spammable moves with a ton of range. His strength to KO Mewtwo is self-explanatory, but I'd like to note the up-smash's invincibility. Another hazardous factor is rage, and Bowser is the heaviest character in the game. You will need to rely on a gimp to promptly eradicate a stock before it's too late.

Mewtwo has a few advantages, such as a good edge guard ability as usual, fairly strong moves, and his Shadow Balls, no matter what power. will always pierce Bowser's light armor at los percentages. Other than that, Mewtwo has an enormous hurtbox and greatly light weight, and that's the main issue. If I would rate this, it would probably be 40:60.

On the topic of obnoxious matchups, Yoshi is absolute absurdity. He's generally quicker than Mewtwo, a bit annoying to edge guard, and mainly, practically safe with everything, one way or another. Let me mention some of his effective tools:

Yoshi's f-air is not only powerful, but also has a chance to meteor smash and even start combos. His jab combo is insanely swift and even hits behind him. The first jab is capable of setting up combos, too. The d-air is overall terribly, especially on Mewtwo, who doesn't wanna take any damage. Yoshi's n-air is annoying since it comes out almost instantly, is strong, covers all around him, can potentially KO, and can interrupt Mewtwo's attacks.

Mewtwo does have advantages here, however. He can genuinely use his Confusion and Disable to stop Yoshi on his tracks. He also has Shadow Balls, but they need to be a bit larger to clip Yoshi's aerials. Mewtwo's up-smash and up-throw feel like the most effective options to snag a stock, since I believe Yoshi boasts an above average weight and floaty. And he has the moves to push Yoshi away.

Overall, this is a tough matchup for Mewtwo, maybe 45:55. I'm open to any corrections, though.

 

[Browny]

playing around with him a lot/against him I honestly feel M2 is a contender for the worst character in the game right now. his dthrow combos from melee no longer work and neither do his dtilt combos. His hitboxes are still much smaller than they look with a giant frame that makes him extremely easy to juggle and poke, all while still being one of the lightest characters in the game, dying as early as rosalina. Jab combos into disable which is really neat, but this character's neutral is so bad I can't see how he's going to land anything. Like honestly what options does mewtwo have against strong characters like fox, mario, rosalina, or falcon? 3 of the 4 completely body the character with their jab alone and all mewtwo can do against rosalina is throw hurtboxes into luma. I'm not sure what you guys are seeing but I feel like any character can just run circles around his neutral game.

Back to Lucario you scrub

Too many people are lazy with investigating mewtwo tricks. Mewtwo has some hilarious options vs the likes of fox and mario, including an inescapable OHKO option on fox the instant he reflects a Shadow ball. Me and @Metros also found certain legal stages allow dthrow to true combo into usmash at KO% which is like 65-85% with it (fite me IRL if you dont believe me). Give Mewtwo time, theres a lot of very interesting things to find out with him.

 

[Karsticles]

Mewtwo vs Mario is 50:50 tbh. Mewtwo is easy to kill and Mario is all good at comboing and has a lot of safe options. Mew two can kill easily tho and his sideB reflects so he can kind of mess up Marios Ngame if they use Fire balls. The main thing that hurts Mew2 here is how easy he is to kill and mario also has a reflector of his own which complicates Shadow ball zoning a bit.

Mewtwo vs Ganondorf 30:70. While close I believe Ganon has the advantage. He's heavy, hits way harder, and is hard to kill. since customs are allowed he isn't as easy to gimp either.

Mewtwo vs Sheik 30:70. Shiek has insane combo game and is so fast that mew two has trouble against her. The main disadvantage sheik has is killing, but it isn't TOO big to a disadvantage since BF, Usmash, and Fsmash can kill Mew2 easily plus Mew2 is really easy to kill and he's big.

Thats just some general stuff I've picked up the past few days really.

This is insanity. No way is Ganondorf 30:70 against Mewtwo. Nair is extremely hard for him to deal with.

 

[Miley]

Anyone have any input on vs Pikachu?

I don't seem to be able to find any options to punish quick attack. My opponent in question is spamming it and I still can't find a way around it. He'll usually land behind me, so I can't shield grab and go immediately into up tilt which is faster than any of my punish options. Then I can't think of anything that break up-tilt out of shield, so then he just has to guess my escape and punish the roll or when I take into the sky; and even if he guesses wrong, he gets away scott free. The only time I've been able to punish quick attack is when he's just made an input mistake, but if he puts himself in the best position each time, I haven't been able to punish it at all (then since it goes into up tilt he can proceed to combo the hell out of me for at least 20% each time)

 

[flying_tortoise]

Mewtwo vs Mario is 50:50 tbh. Mewtwo is easy to kill and Mario is all good at comboing and has a lot of safe options. Mew two can kill easily tho and his sideB reflects so he can kind of mess up Marios Ngame if they use Fire balls. The main thing that hurts Mew2 here is how easy he is to kill and mario also has a reflector of his own which complicates Shadow ball zoning a bit.

Mewtwo vs Ganondorf 30:70. While close I believe Ganon has the advantage. He's heavy, hits way harder, and is hard to kill. since customs are allowed he isn't as easy to gimp either.

Mewtwo vs Sheik 30:70. Shiek has insane combo game and is so fast that mew two has trouble against her. The main disadvantage sheik has is killing, but it isn't TOO big to a disadvantage since BF, Usmash, and Fsmash can kill Mew2 easily plus Mew2 is really easy to kill and he's big.

Thats just some general stuff I've picked up the past few days really.

I have to agree with Karsticles. Once you know what ganon's like to do it is extremely easy to pick em apart. First off you have a very strong shadowball that forces ganon to come in, who is a character who should definately not be approaching. avoid his bait U-smash. When at a medium-far distance, realize they will most likely Down-B or Side B so get ready to jump, run, roll, etc. (Edit: and make sure it leads to a punish, don't just reset to neutral, punish him for being predictable, and possibly scare him from using those moves)
If he tries to get in by rolling then nair and send him to the edges of the stage. you now have stage control, forcing him to commit to options that maybe unsafe for him.

Sheik in top 2 in the game. so...yah mb 30:70 until you properly learn to keep her out with little shadowballs (or max powered ones if you have em), training your opponent with habits he thinks you will do, and getting good mixups in.

 

[Stormfury12]

This is insanity. No way is Ganondorf 30:70 against Mewtwo. Nair is extremely hard for him to deal with.

Its probably just me cause my buddy can't beat my Ganon half the time. Looking back at it 30:70 is unreasonable lol. I think 60:40 is actually better. I have a hard time saying Ganon has a "hard time" handling Mew2 but eh Mewtwos only been out a few days so I'm still learning him. I honestly think Sheik gives Mew2 a hard time mostly due to speed and agility. Also N-air can be shield grabbed extremely easily so you can't really say that thats going to give Ganon a hard time really, plus it would just end up with Mew two eating a crap ton of damage. Normal Ganon isn't the problem, its custom Ganon that can make things hell for Mewtwo especially in the hands of a good player. Thats from my experience tho. But yeah lol I think I slipped up it isn't 30:70 by any means, idk what i was thinking when I typed that lol. Something like 40 : 60, 50 : 50 or 60 : 40 makes sense to me.

I have to agree with Karsticles. Once you know what ganon's like to do it is extremely easy to pick em apart. First off you have a very strong shadowball that forces ganon to come in, who is a character who should definately not be approaching. avoid his bait U-smash. When at a medium-far distance, realize they will most likely Down-B or Side B so get ready to jump, run, roll, etc. (Edit: and make sure it leads to a punish, don't just reset to neutral, punish him for being predictable, and possibly scare him from using those moves)
If he tries to get in by rolling then nair and send him to the edges of the stage. you now have stage control, forcing him to commit to options that maybe unsafe for him.

Sheik in top 2 in the game. so...yah mb 30:70 until you properly learn to keep her out with little shadowballs (or max powered ones if you have em), training your opponent with habits he thinks you will do, and getting good mixups in.

I agree on all accounts here. Its just that a high level Ganon is a force to be reckoned with, especially since Mew2 dies so easily. Most good Ganons I've played don't abuse Side B as much as people like to say if anything its mostly punish game. But anyways I agree with the points you've brought up. I used to seriously main Ganon so for me I guess I'm kind of biased lol

 

[flying_tortoise]

I agree on all accounts here. Its just that a high level Ganon is a force to be reckoned with, especially since Mew2 dies so easily. Most good Ganons I've played don't abuse Side B as much as people like to say if anything its mostly punish game. But anyways I agree with the points you've brought up. I used to seriously main Ganon so for me I guess I'm kind of biased lol

yah any good player can make any character look scary as heck, so I don't blame you. That's why its important to be unbiased and for mu's I usually try to think if the best ganon played the best m2. Who would have the easier time

 

[Enoki]

Realistically, Mewtwo will have a hard time against most of the rush down characters. However, I'm feeling that the two most difficult will be Sheik and ZSS. Sheik is obvious - Mewtwo has little to no options in the neutral game. You either win by hard reads or by insane baits and punishes. ZSS is arguably just as difficult- she has minimal landing lag combined with great range and kill power. ZSS can juggle Mewtwo so easily, and gets the kill ridiculously early with the Up B. I could go in depth, but to summarize: if you're playing these characters, do not use any laggy moves in neutral, and don't do anything unsafe. You will be punished.

Speaking as a Yoshi main, Mewtwo actually does some good things going for him. Mewtwo has some excellent anti air options from the ground, and Yoshi loves air approaches. On the flipside, try to never be above Yoshi. The one thing Mewtwo has over Yoshi is range, so try to take advantage of that. Still, I would say it's around 40:60 in Yoshi's favor.

Also, Ganon probably loses to Mewtwo. Shadow ball forces him to approach, which is bad for Ganon and great for us. We both have a similar type of play style, but Mewtwo overall has safer options and better edge guard potential.

 

[Steam]

Back to Lucario you scrub

Too many people are lazy with investigating mewtwo tricks. Mewtwo has some hilarious options vs the likes of fox and mario, including an inescapable OHKO option on fox the instant he reflects a Shadow ball. Me and @Metros also found certain legal stages allow dthrow to true combo into usmash at KO% which is like 65-85% with it (fite me IRL if you dont believe me). Give Mewtwo time, theres a lot of very interesting things to find out with him.

that's fine, lucario has insane kill setups and is still mediocre at best because his neutral game is so bad. Mewtwo's is somehow even worse. The character is too large, too slow, too floaty, too badhitboxy. All of his traits make for a terrible neutral game. It boggles my mind that they wouldn't give him meatier hitboxes while abominations like ness and villager exist.

 

[Kalierdarke]

This is pretty much how... I'd say 99% of my captain falcon matches go in for glory with M2. https://youtu.be/_F_dWDjYXeY
I'm pretty sure this isn't a great falcon, but then, I'm far from the best M2 myself (and had a few controller hiccups, I have no idea where the triple d-tilt came from after the confusion)

 

[MagiusNecros]

Bowser can just punch and kick shadow balls into nothing though or power shield.

Not to mention Bowser has a lot of strong attacks that kill many characters at low percents.

A Bowser bair will nullify shadow ball at any level.

 

[Deleted member]

I find fighting Olimar really bothersome with Mewtwo.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I find fighting Olimar really bothersome with Mewtwo.

Hell yes he is. Those pikmin can stop shadowballs.

 

[Deleted member]

Hell yes he is. Those pikmin can stop shadowballs.

I almost feel like it could be one of Mewtwo's worst, tbh. What with the Pikmin eating Shadow Balls and Olimar's moves themselves leaving little time for punishes.

The fact that Mewtwo's aerials seem to be completely outprioritized by Olimar's doesn't help either.

It's a struggle, if it wasn't for the fact that Olimar can be killed early (Shadow Ball that somehow gets through the Pikmin, Uthrow, the occasional Smash attack that will miraculously connect) because of his weight I would find this MU near impossible to deal with.

Ugh.

 

[Nobie]

Hell yes he is. Those pikmin can stop shadowballs.

On the other hand, you can reflect Pikmin right back at him.

 

[Sonsa]

Trouble with Olimar? I fought a great one, one of my friends, and side-b reflecting Pikmin and spinning him around forced him to limit himself and stick to only a certain number of moves. I actually felt like I was cheating, doesnt seem like a bad MU for Mewtwo at all. It was still kinda close but I won with a comfortable lead and a spike.
Olimar's recovery has no hitbox so...go for it, and Pikmin can be swatted so easily with your tail. Even Nair kills any latched onto you.
Definitely not one of our worst matchups. Not saying it's free either, I'm sure Olimar can give us some pressure and give us trouble, but Mewtwo just has responses for anything Olimar wants to dish out.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Play mewtwo like ganon. Make them afraid of throwing anything at you by countering each action that punishes their own. They will probably make more mistakes that way.

 

[Karsticles]

Its probably just me cause my buddy can't beat my Ganon half the time. Looking back at it 30:70 is unreasonable lol. I think 60:40 is actually better. I have a hard time saying Ganon has a "hard time" handling Mew2 but eh Mewtwos only been out a few days so I'm still learning him. I honestly think Sheik gives Mew2 a hard time mostly due to speed and agility. Also N-air can be shield grabbed extremely easily so you can't really say that thats going to give Ganon a hard time really, plus it would just end up with Mew two eating a crap ton of damage. Normal Ganon isn't the problem, its custom Ganon that can make things hell for Mewtwo especially in the hands of a good player. Thats from my experience tho. But yeah lol I think I slipped up it isn't 30:70 by any means, idk what i was thinking when I typed that lol. Something like 40 : 60, 50 : 50 or 60 : 40 makes sense to me.



I agree on all accounts here. Its just that a high level Ganon is a force to be reckoned with, especially since Mew2 dies so easily. Most good Ganons I've played don't abuse Side B as much as people like to say if anything its mostly punish game. But anyways I agree with the points you've brought up. I used to seriously main Ganon so for me I guess I'm kind of biased lol

Space Nair far enough behind Dorf and he can't grab punish.

 

[TTYK]

Definitely don't see Mewtwo getting past Sheik at the moment, his combos are way too overpowering for M2's slow and laggy figure.

 

[Karsticles]

Anyone have experience (not just theorycraft) against Pikachu's Quick Attack?

Nair loses to it, and Pikachu is too small to be hit by most of Nair anyway.

Jabs often miss Pikachu due to his height.

You basically have a tenth of a second to figure out which side Pikachu ended up on, and then you need to go for the tilt, which might not even hit. Undoubtedly the most frustrating matchup I have experienced thus far. At least my tools work against Sheik.

 

[Chiroz]

Anyone have experience (not just theorycraft) against Pikachu's Quick Attack?

Nair loses to it, and Pikachu is too small to be hit by most of Nair anyway.

Jabs often miss Pikachu due to his height.

You basically have a tenth of a second to figure out which side Pikachu ended up on, and then you need to go for the tilt, which might not even hit. Undoubtedly the most frustrating matchup I have experienced thus far. At least my tools work against Sheik.

Avoid and punish. Stay calm at all costs.

That's the most important part of it, don't try to punish if you get hit, Pikachu will always have the advantage. Remind yourself that as long as you stay safe Pikachu will need about 9+ succesful QAs in order to get the reward you get from one avoided one. I think the most important/hardest part of this match is staying calm while being ****ed up. If you lose your cool because Pikachu just keeps QAing then you will start making mistakes and he will get follow ups from QA making it even worse.

Also once you're at kill % he will either change his gameplan or go for risky QAs (landing right beside you). Avoid and punish!

Mewtwo vs Mario is 50:50 tbh. Mewtwo is easy to kill and Mario is all good at comboing and has a lot of safe options. Mew two can kill easily tho and his sideB reflects so he can kind of mess up Marios Ngame if they use Fire balls. The main thing that hurts Mew2 here is how easy he is to kill and mario also has a reflector of his own which complicates Shadow ball zoning a bit.

Mewtwo vs Ganondorf 30:70. While close I believe Ganon has the advantage. He's heavy, hits way harder, and is hard to kill. since customs are allowed he isn't as easy to gimp either.

Mewtwo vs Sheik 30:70. Shiek has insane combo game and is so fast that mew two has trouble against her. The main disadvantage sheik has is killing, but it isn't TOO big to a disadvantage since BF, Usmash, and Fsmash can kill Mew2 easily plus Mew2 is really easy to kill and he's big.

Thats just some general stuff I've picked up the past few days really.

Completely disagree.

I think Mario has a lot of advantages over Mewtwo and any good Mario player creates a huge wall for Mewtwo to overcome in order to win. Mario is one of the characters that can take the most advantage out of Mewtwo's greatest weakness, his lack of defensive options to avoid combos, Mario can combo Mewtwo all day long and Mario's endlag is so low that he can still punish almost all "escape" options Mewtwo has.

Even when I play average Mario players I find it hard to fight them and I know that if I switched to Mario or CF I could probably 2 stock them easily.



Ganondorf for me is incredibly easy to the point where I don't know why people keep saying he's even remotely hard. Mewtwo has better speed and comparable power/range. Mewtwo has better priority and can combo Ganon for days while Ganon can't reliably combo Mewtwo out of anything.

In the air Mewtwo laughs at Ganon's aerials. U-Air and F-Air are too slow to hit Mewtwo and D-Air has too little range under Ganon, you can easily abuse Mewtwo's U-Air range and combo a Ganon on top of you all day. The only usable aerials for Ganon are N-Air and B-Air (which requires Ganon to be facing backwards so you can be aware that it's coming.

Why exactly does Ganon beat Mewtwo?

 

[MagiusNecros]

Non customs mewtwo has advantage. With customs dropkick makes ganon harder to gimp and dark fists can kill mewtwo early.

I think it is up to player skill level honestly.

 

[Chiroz]

Non customs mewtwo has advantage. With customs dropkick makes ganon harder to gimp and dark fists can kill mewtwo early.

I think it is up to player skill level honestly.

I haven't fought custom Ganon, but I still think Mewtwo dominates the air in terms of speed and range, and on the ground Mewtwo is basically on par with Ganon with the exception that Mewtwo can easily combo out of any of his attacks or create huge pressure while Ganon mostly gets a big reward out of a succesful attack but can't follow up on it.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

...Except that Ganon doesn't necessarily need to follow up anyway.

 

[MagiusNecros]

...Except that Ganon doesn't necessarily need to follow up anyway.

Exactly. Ganon landing one attack is like any other character pulling off a combo.

 

[Kalierdarke]

Mewtwo vs Mario certainly feels at least slightly in mario's favor. You can reflect fireballs provided you have enough distance to react before he hits you in response, toss a few uncharged shadow balls, generally just bait him into performing actions beneficial to you, but in the end mario still has a much easier time beating M2 than the reverse.

 

[Chiroz]

Exactly. Ganon landing one attack is like any other character pulling off a combo.

Except Mewtwo's attacks are basically almost as strong as Ganon's and they do combo.

I mean getting a D-Tilt basically leads up to an F-Air which is like 20% or something similar and Ganon is still at a bad position after the first F-Air. U-Tilt can lead into U-Air chains. Ganon's only reaction to Confusion or D-Throw is N-Air and you can shield it and punish his landing, he doesn't have an attack fast enough to stop you.

Ganon hits Mewtwo for 20% and Mewtwo can just run away and that's it, back to neutral.



I want to play a decent Ganon who can show me what's so incredibly bad about that matchup for Mewtwo, everyone keeps claiming Ganon destroys Mewtwo and I think the matchup is actually in Mewtwo's favor.

 

[Deleted member]

A lot of it comes down to the fact that all Ganon really needs is any sort of damage.

Ganon's okay to hit for 20% and then let someone get away because all he needs is a handful of hits to get a KO, especially for a character as light as Mewtwo.

Ganon can tank damage all day too, hell, often it will eventually start working in his favor because as long as he isn't getting gimped he'll have rage building and then all it takes is one-two hits and he has a stock.

I don't have too much experience with the MU yet, but I can see where people who say that Ganon has a favorable MU with Mewtwo are coming from.

 

[Smog Frog]

what can mewtwo do against dtilt? also, even without any rage, mewtwo gets bodied by dank fists at like <70%. dont make mistakes, especially because mewtwo has a much lower mistake capacity than the rest of the cast.

 

[Chiroz]

A lot of it comes down to the fact that all Ganon really needs is any sort of damage.

Ganon's okay to hit for 20% and then let someone get away because all he needs is a handful of hits to get a KO, especially for a character as light as Mewtwo.

Ganon can tank damage all day too, hell, often it will eventually start working in his favor because as long as he isn't getting gimped he'll have rage building and then all it takes is one-two hits and he has a stock.

I don't have too much experience with the MU yet, but I can see where people who say that Ganon has a favorable MU with Mewtwo are coming from.

This explanations works against everyone. If this is the reason Ganon beats Mewtwo 30:70 then he would beat every single character 30:70 and we know he is actually at a disadvantage in most MUs.

I understand Ganon's character and how he works, what I am saying is that there is nothing inherently wrong about Mewtwo that helps Ganon in the MU while there are a lot of inherent Ganon things that help Mewtwo. For example Ganon's inability to combo which is something that Mewtwo is extremely weak to. Also Ganon's extremely limited ability to break Mewtwo's combos which are deadly but most characters can easily break, except chars like Ganon have a hard time breaking them.

what can mewtwo do against dtilt?

Ganon's D-Tilt?

Confusion, Shadow Ball, D-Tilt after Ganon's D-Tilt (hit his foot), Forward-Tilt after the D-Tilt (probably Disable too, need to test).

SH N-Air and SH F-Air might work but it also might not, Ganon's D-Tilt has a huge hitbox vertically too, so I don't know if it actually works.

SH B-Air, Falling U-Air, D-Air and U-Tilt are probably all too obvious and too slow to land unless the Ganon keeps spamming D-Tilt over and over, but they are still options to consider, but if he's spamming it too obviously you might as well hit him with something that leads to a bigger reward, like a tilt or a smash.

 

[Deleted member]

This explanations works against everyone. If this is the reason Ganon beats Mewtwo 30:70 then he would beat every single character 30:70 and we know he is actually at a disadvantage in most MUs.

I understand Ganon's character what I am saying is that there is nothing inherently Mewtwo that helps Ganon in the MU while there are a lot of inherent Ganon things that help Mewtwo (like Ganon's inability to combo which is something that Mewtwo is extremely weak to).
.

If you wanna keep a list of everything there is Mewtwo's light weight counting against him.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Custom Dorf can dropkick over sb pressure, dash attack through uncharged sb, and can Bair any charge into nothing.

The victor I believe will be the player who gets more reads over the other. And consider Ganon can live longer then Mewtwo and can potentially end Mewtwo at around 50%-80% off a uncharged fsmash.

And that Ganon does the most damage per hit. And if you traded attacks throughout the match Ganon would win. That and ganoncide might dissuade you from edgeguarding.

However non customs Dorf would probably lose to a competent Mewtwo.

 

[Chiroz]

Custom Dorf can dropkick over sb pressure, dash attack through uncharged sb, and can Bair any charge into nothing.

The victor I believe will be the player who gets more reads over the other. And consider Ganon can live longer then Mewtwo and can potentially end Mewtwo at around 50%-80% off a uncharged fsmash.

And that Ganon does the most damage per hit. And if you traded attacks throughout the match Ganon would win. That and ganoncide might dissuade you from edgeguarding.

However non customs Dorf would probably lose to a competent Mewtwo.

Mewtwo has a very low endlag after uncharged SB, depending on how far away Ganon is, which is something Mewtwo can control (don't spam SB if he's too close), Mewtwo can still punish the drop kick or the dash attack too.

Mewtwo making a mistake leads to 1 hit, Ganon making a mistake leads to tons of pressure from Mewtwo. Mewtwo can play the match extremely safe too, no need to trade hits or give Ganon openings, while Ganon needs to take risks to get those hits in.

I don't see any reason why Ganon is good against Mewtwo and all everyone is saying is that Ganon hits hard and Mewtwo dies fast (no one is giving a valid reason apart from that). Well so does Rosalina, Jiggz, Palutena, Wario, etc and I am pretty certain Ganon isn't 30:70 with any of those, in fact I think most of those matchups are against Ganon's favor.



At this point, I'd like to fight a Ganon player soon, but I can't until at least Tuesday night. I might be able to squeeze an hour or something on the 3DS though. Whomever is a decent Ganon then message me.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I'm not the best Ganon so you might want to check the Ganon boards.

 

[Sonsa]

I think Mewtwo kinda beats Ike. Back-airing him so he can't recover, Ike not having any dangerous response to projectiles, and also, if any Ike ever makes the mistake of charging their Side-B on stage that's kind of a free disable for you.

 

[Enoki]

Mewtwo making a mistake leads to 1 hit, Ganon making a mistake leads to tons of pressure from Mewtwo. Mewtwo can play the match extremely safe too, no need to trade hits or give Ganon openings, while Ganon needs to take risks to get those hits in.

I don't see any reason why Ganon is good against Mewtwo and all everyone is saying is that Ganon hits hard and Mewtwo dies fast (no one is giving a valid reason apart from that). Well so does Rosalina, Jiggz, Palutena, Wario, etc and I am pretty certain Ganon isn't 30:70 with any of those, in fact I think most of those matchups are against Ganon's favor.

Just for the record, Wario is actually a heavy weight, so he doesn't die early...

I agree with you in that Ganondorf does not have an advantage over Mewtwo. Ganon often beats people because he heavily punishes careless play, not because Ganon as a character has an advantage. So for any who feel it's 30:70, I think maybe you're overestimating Ganon because of mistakes you made. As a Mewtwo, you can't do anything risky against a Ganon, nor should you ever need to. Every single hit counts, and we have the tools to be very safe.

By the way, falling nair gimps Ganon like 95% of the times I try it. I would argue this matchup is like 70:30 in Mewtwo's favor, because Mewtwo can literally gimp Ganon off a single back throw (if customs are off). Bair also overcomes anything Ganon can do offstage if nair isn't safe.