Meta Pokemon Stadium - Mewtwo General Matchup Thread

[Sirgabite]

i dont think is that bad of a mathcup because can intercept alot of fair combos has with his own fair, the only annoying thing with is her speed probably

 

[Thinkaman]

i dont think is that bad of a mathcup because can intercept alot of fair combos has with his own fair, the only annoying thing with is her speed probably

Sheik fair chains are true combos at mid %s and very close to it at low %s. Mewtwo fair (and nair) hits on frame 7. Mewtwo will never, ever break out of a Sheik fair chain with an attack.

Edit: Sheik fair also outranges Mewtwo fair (and nair)

 

[Kalierdarke]

I'm throwing my 2 cents in on . I was playing a pretty good one earlier, and I would definitely say they was better than I am(that and I'm bad against sonics), but I found after about 5 games, I was either winning, or coming really close in the end, often losing to a mistake. (Such as bouncing upwards off the ledge instead of snapping to it)

It's a challenging MU for M2, definitely, but he has plenty of options to "speed trap" sonic. It really comes down to how well you can read and react. M2 has tools to deal with almost everything sonic can throw out, you just have to react fast enough. Jab combo can make a ground approach dangerous, confusion can interrupt spindash, upsmash beats homing attack, etc..

Unfortunately, your best options to kill sonic with M2 is either catching him in an up smash, or charged shadowball to the face. grabbing him is hard with M2's range and speed, and fsmash/dsmash is unlikely. I'd say it's really a close match leaning in sonic's favor, provided you don't factor in player reactions, as this MU will swerve heavily by that.

Course, sonic is still one of the only 2 characters I've played that I've had trouble with. the other being , and I haven't played everyone with M2 yet.

All this in FG too of course.

and are probably the two easiest MUs I had. and are annoying but beatable with patience. often got KOd by his own arrows. was about middle ground, even though I didn't lose to one.

Also played and I can't really comment on because I think my opponents were just bad. in all 3 cases I twostocked them. the rest of the cast I have not played yet.

 

[MookieRah]

Sheik fair chains are true combos at mid %s and very close to it at low %s. Mewtwo fair (and nair) hits on frame 7. Mewtwo will never, ever break out of a Sheik fair chain with an attack.

Edit: Sheik fair also outranges Mewtwo fair (and nair)

Mewtwo doesn't win in air to air and never has. His moveset prevents him from being super effective there. The goal is to stay on the ground and followup with aerials. Again, I have no Sm4sh experience, but you should probably try to poke Shiek with your tilts and let her be the one to make aerial commitments.

 

[Sparky15]

Captain Falcon is easily one of Mewtwo's worst, if not, the worst MU in the game. He's fast, strong, combos him hard because his size, and KOs him because of his weight. Mewtwo can space Captain Falcon out with b-air, tilts, and Shadow Balls, but they're a bit on the slow side. Captain Falcon has a mediocre recovery, too, but that doesn't make up for all the stress Mewtwo has to put up with.

 

[Sirgabite]

Sheik fair chains are true combos at mid %s and very close to it at low %s. Mewtwo fair (and nair) hits on frame 7. Mewtwo will never, ever break out of a Sheik fair chain with an attack.

Edit: Sheik fair also outranges Mewtwo fair (and nair)

then the sheiks i have met has been really bad at conecting them accordingy, also fair comes out on F6, not F7

 

[Sparky15]

i dont think is that bad of a mathcup because can intercept alot of fair combos has with his own fair, the only annoying thing with is her speed probably

That's a pretty even matchup. You just have to be patient for the most part and catch the mistakes Shiek makes. For instance, Sheik was chaining f-airs on my while burning her midair jump and tried to finish me off with Bouncing Fish. So, I air dodged the BF and b-aired her.

 

[Sirgabite]

Also played and I can't really comment on because I think my opponents were just bad. in all 3 cases I twostocked them. the rest of the cast I have not played yet.

if your fighting a good fox, the matchup is real hell, his Double jab lock is infininate and he kill mewtwo with an upsmash at 80%, its as i said, pure hell to fight, but i have nothing on charizard and pikachu

That's a pretty even matchup. You just have to be patient for the most part and catch the mistakes Shiek makes. For instance, Sheik was chaining f-airs on my while burning her midair jump and tried to finish me off with Bouncing Fish. So, I air dodged the BF and b-aired her.

even though i was wrong about the fair chains, i still felt like it was an even matchup between them

 

[Sparky15]

if your fighting a good fox, the matchup is real hell, his Double jab lock is infininate and he kill mewtwo with an upsmash at 80%, its as i said, pure hell to fight, but i have nothing on charizard and pikachu

Fox is kind of tough due to his speed and strong vertical KO moves, but he shouldn't be an imminent problem once you get the hang of how to interrupt his attacks with Shadow Balls, jabs, and tilts. He's also fairly light, too. So up-throw, back-throw, f-air, and his smash attacks have no issue taking a stock.

 

[Perris6]

Against fox it's best to throw out shadow balls to force a reflector and disrupt approach. This will allow you to capitalize on reflecting as well as shielding. Also your tilts are great for spacing, allowing you to rack up damage. Plus fox is light.......so throw him in the air

Day 2: have the Most trouble against Cap and Sonic

 

[DavemanCozy]

Well, this is all first impressions, so take it with a grain of salt.

After two days of grinding up Mewtwo and playing with him locally with friends (online lag makes him impossible to play), I think that Mewtwo is gonna have a bad time in this Smash game.

I honestly don't think Mewtwo is top 10, nor top 20, probably not even top 30. He is gonna be low again imo. His edge-guarding and gimping game is pretty damn effective against the majority of the cast, his range is decent but with unfortunately weak sourspots at the ends of his tail (is the weak knockback meant for combos?), and his air mobility is good. But he's just too slow, too big, and way way too light for such a big target.

I hope someone proves me wrong about my favourite legendary Pokemon, but as it stands I think all these characters are gonna run circles around Mewtwo's laggy moves and give him a hell of a hard time:


The following characters will give him trouble in the air as well, which is a shame since that's one of his strong assets:


You'll notice that Yoshi and MK showed up in both lists: I firmly believe these to be his worst matchups in this game.

 

[Chiroz]

Sheik fair chains are true combos at mid %s and very close to it at low %s. Mewtwo fair (and nair) hits on frame 7. Mewtwo will never, ever break out of a Sheik fair chain with an attack.

Edit: Sheik fair also outranges Mewtwo fair (and nair)

I don't know about the Sheik true combos on F-Air (I thought you could air dodge them if you DIed away) but Mewtwo's F-Air is disjointed, so you can outrange Sheik's F-Air by staying exactly outside of her F-Air's range and F-Airing her F-Air hurtbox. It's how I deal with it, I also do the same thing against Yoshi's.

I still don't have enough experience to comment on any of these matchups, just wanted to say this.

 

[MookieRah]

but with unfortunately weak sourspots at the ends of his tail (is the weak knockback meant for combos?), and his air mobility is good. But he's just too slow, too big, and way way too light for such a big target.

Sounds pretty much like it is in melee. His ground tilts are really good and have good range, but the tips are actually weak hits. That said, they are still effective in melee, moreso than most think. It's sad to hear that he's still slow, big, and too light. I don't understand why they did that in melee, or why they would repeat that mistake again now. All that minus wavedashing sounds like Sm4sh Mewtwo will have a hard time. I only mention wavedashing here because at least in melee M2 had one of the best wavedashes in the game, which was quite nifty.

Quick question, does Sm4sh even have DJC? It'd be really sad if M2 lost wavedashing and DJC.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Sounds pretty much like it is in melee. His ground tilts are really good and have good range, but the tips are actually weak hits. That said, they are still effective in melee, moreso than most think. It's sad to hear that he's still slow, big, and too light. I don't understand why they did that in melee, or why they would repeat that mistake again now. All that minus wavedashing sounds like Sm4sh Mewtwo will have a hard time. I only mention wavedashing here because at least in melee M2 had one of the best wavedashes in the game, which was quite nifty.

Quick question, does Sm4sh even have DJC? It'd be really sad if M2 lost wavedashing and DJC.

He can only djc specials. Aerials don't interrupt the double jump and keeps the momentum

 

[Kalierdarke]

if your fighting a good fox, the matchup is real hell, his Double jab lock is infininate and he kill mewtwo with an upsmash at 80%, its as i said, pure hell to fight, but i have nothing on charizard and pikachu

The main reason I wasn't too sure on the fox is I main jigglypuff and never have trouble with fox, so I already have an idea how to handle him as a light character that can easily be KOd. Of course, M2 also doesn't have as good of options on fox as puff does.

 

[Igzex]

So far I believe that Mewtwo is good against other characters that have bad approach abilities because Mewtwo kinda forces approaches and can space those characters out when they try to get it.

Mewtwo is not so good against characters that can rush in and keep up the pressure like Shiek and Zero Suit Samus. Mewtwo is also bad against small and nimble characters like Diddy Kong and Pikachu. Mewtwo doesn't seem too hot against Rosalina, Bowser, and sword wielders (especially Ike).

 

[MookieRah]

Can he cancel shadow balls in the air still? You can do that pretty fast in melee with practice. Not even nearly close to DJC, but perhaps it would be useful in Sm4sh somehow. If the shadow ball charge has a nice hitbox you could possibly use it to turn around shadowball charge -> cancel -> aerial.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I think Bowser is tough for Mewtwo. Lost twice to him.

 

[Kalierdarke]

I think Bowser is tough for Mewtwo. Lost twice to him.

Good bowsers are just REALLY annoying if you aren't used to fighting them with a character. I'm not seeing much trouble with stopping bowser.

 

[Wiley]

So far the only real trouble I'm getting is from in that order. I haven't played enough diddy's yet so I'm leaving that out.

Rosa takes so much work and you being floaty and big with her absurd coverage and negating your range is just hell and more hell. I've gotten it close but I can't beat a good Rosa yet, grr

Fox and Falcon are similar in their difficulty but fox is harder for me. Falcon you can force aerial approaches a bit more with SB and kara upsmash reads etc but that doesn't work with fox.

pit is semi tough but manageable.

A few members of the cast feel easy for Mewtwo though, I'm so happy with him so far!

I thought would be tough but it's really not as bad as I thought.

Playing as I have no trouble with Mewtwos of today though... but haven't faced a good Pika myself while M2.

And I'm sure will eventually join that top threat list I have up there, but not enough exp with good ones.

is so fun to play against as M2 lol XD

are kind of a mixed bag, slightly in M2's favor I'd say, just because his range/reflect options are absurdly strong.

It's early but these are my 2 cents ;D

 

[Modular Zeal]

Watch out for Robins. Mewtwo is tall and floaty, which already gives Robins an advantage pressure-wise. Once you get caught in a single Arcfire/Arcthunder, you can kiss your butt god bye as you will get combo'd (or Nosferatsu'd by the pros) into oblivion.

^ YES!!! I dont know if it was just my skill level compared to this one guy I played but I could almost do nothing against his Robin...

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

if your fighting a good fox, the matchup is real hell, his Double jab lock is infininate and he kill mewtwo with an upsmash at 80%, its as i said, pure hell to fight, but i have nothing on charizard and pikachu

Wait what?

I thought that got nerfed? Or is it still a thing?

 

[Sirgabite]

Wait what?

I thought that got nerfed? Or is it still a thing?

double jab lock is still a thing, if thats what you mean

 

[Nobie]

From a few days' experience playing online, I've found the easiest opponents to be Charizard, Donkey Kong, and, oddly enough, Zero Suit Samus and Lucario.

The first two I think make sense because they're huge targets that can get comboed for days, and they're especially vulnerable to neutral air.

Zero Suit Samus and Lucario, on paper you'd think they'd have a serious edge. ZSS is speedy and has a 1-frame jab, Lucario has aura to exploit Mewtwo's frail defenses. However, I feel like there's something about their respective kits that Mewtwo does well against. It's hard to describe; there's just a sense of interaction between their moves where, as Mewtwo, i rarely ever have to be afraid. This might be especially the case with Lucario, because the massive end lag on a lot of his stronger attacks means that Mewtwo can successfully punish even after shielding, and Lucario has to be wary of using Aura Sphere at both low and high percentages, due to how Shadow Ball can overwhelm it during the former, and Confusion can reflect it during the latter.

I fought a Robin a ton today, and lost a ton too before I started to pick up some wins. What I learned is that your tilts are actually pretty useful during the fight, and that you need to keep the momentum against him. Another important factor is that while a reflected Arcfire won't hit Robin typically, the end lag for Arcfire is so long that you can immediately punish with a dash attack to pop him up into the air and begin a juggle.

 

[warionumbah2]

Confusion also reflects force palm Lucarios main way of zoning you out at high percents.

 

[Smog Frog]

how bad is the matchup? is it bad enough that i have to whip out a secondary? or is it doable? not even gonna ask about lol i'm disappointed that the balance team got rid of links jab cancel but not fox's. because nerfing high tiers makes too much sense.

 

[Sparky15]

Just wanna get this out there for those who come across a Bowser Jr. without any knowledge on the matchup, because it can be a pain in the tail to do so. Since Bowser Jr.'s usual approach option is his Clown Kart Dash, you'd expect it to be a bit troubling like Sonic's Spin Charge and Spin Dash shenanigans, but no. If he charges at you, shield for good measure and punish with n-air or b-air, reading his follow-up attack after cancelling it with his jump. It's a really effective punish, with the former allowing for potential follow-ups, and the latter being a good spacing move. That should make sure he should think twice about going full throttle or not.

Other wise, just be careful about how you should attack Bowser Jr. Especially at high percentages, where his smash attacks, two parts of Abandon Ship, jab finisher, and even f-tilt could KO you. At least half charged Shadow Balls are nice for piercing the armor of the CKD, but the cannonballs can interrupt them at any power but full charged. That's all the essential info I have from Bowser Jr. that I experienced badly, but eventually adapted. The matchup feels even or is in Mewtwo's slight favor since it sounds right to me.

 

[BugCatcherWill]

Just wanna get this out there for those who come across a Bowser Jr. without any knowledge on the matchup, because it can be a pain in the tail to do so. Since Bowser Jr.'s usual approach option is his Clown Kart Dash, you'd expect it to be a bit troubling like Sonic's Spin Charge and Spin Dash shenanigans, but no. If he charges at you, shield for good measure and punish with n-air or b-air, reading his follow-up attack after cancelling it with his jump. It's a really effective punish, with the former allowing for potential follow-ups, and the latter being a good spacing move. That should make sure he should think twice about going full throttle or not.

Other wise, just be careful about how you should attack Bowser Jr. Especially at high percentages, where his smash attacks, two parts of Abandon Ship, jab finisher, and even f-tilt could KO you. At least half charged Shadow Balls are nice for piercing the armor of the CKD, but the cannonballs can interrupt them at any power but full charged. That's all the essential info I have from Bowser Jr. that I experienced badly, but eventually adapted. The matchup feels even or is in Mewtwo's slight favor since it sounds right to me.

Also Confusion gives you possession of the Mechakoopa, without picking it up

 

[Sparky15]

how bad is the matchup? is it bad enough that i have to whip out a secondary? or is it doable? not even gonna ask about lol i'm disappointed that the balance team got rid of links jab cancel but not fox's. because nerfing high tiers makes too much sense.

To summarize, you're light combo meat, keyword being LIGHT. That alone gives Mewtwo a rough ride. It's not too terribly bad, since you can perform a couple of neat strings on Captain Falcon, have Shadow Balls, a fantastic recovery, and equally fantastic edge guarding tools to finish his stock off. But these don't quite make up for how tough it is.

 

[David Viran]

From a few days' experience playing online, I've found the easiest opponents to be Charizard, Donkey Kong, and, oddly enough, Zero Suit Samus and Lucario.

The first two I think make sense because they're huge targets that can get comboed for days, and they're especially vulnerable to neutral air.

Zero Suit Samus and Lucario, on paper you'd think they'd have a serious edge. ZSS is speedy and has a 1-frame jab, Lucario has aura to exploit Mewtwo's frail defenses. However, I feel like there's something about their respective kits that Mewtwo does well against. It's hard to describe; there's just a sense of interaction between their moves where, as Mewtwo, i rarely ever have to be afraid. This might be especially the case with Lucario, because the massive end lag on a lot of his stronger attacks means that Mewtwo can successfully punish even after shielding, and Lucario has to be wary of using Aura Sphere at both low and high percentages, due to how Shadow Ball can overwhelm it during the former, and Confusion can reflect it during the latter.

I fought a Robin a ton today, and lost a ton too before I started to pick up some wins. What I learned is that your tilts are actually pretty useful during the fight, and that you need to keep the momentum against him. Another important factor is that while a reflected Arcfire won't hit Robin typically, the end lag for Arcfire is so long that you can immediately punish with a dash attack to pop him up into the air and begin a juggle.

One of the biggest problems I see for M2 against zss is that his large hurtbox and light weight is definitly not good for him because uair staircase to up b is easier against him and he dies from like 30% while it's pretty reliable.

 

[Sparky15]

Now I'm curious: is it a good idea to challenge both Zero Suit Samus's Flip Jump attacks with Mewtwo's up-air, up-tilt, or b-air? I've been told that the hitbox of the manual attack is disjointed and it makes me REALLY nervous once she does it offstage, recovering and edge guarding.

 

[David Viran]

Now I'm curious: is it a good idea to challenge both Zero Suit Samus's Flip Jump attacks with Mewtwo's up-air, up-tilt, or b-air? I've been told that the hitbox of the manual attack is disjointed and it makes me REALLY nervous once she does it offstage, recovering and edge guarding.

Challenge it I would say no that thing is very very disjointed and at worst trades while it does 14%. It has a ton of end lag tho and can be really bad if missed but has good reward also on a character like M2 it probably kills 90% or lower from on stage.

 

[Kalierdarke]

how bad is the matchup? is it bad enough that i have to whip out a secondary? or is it doable? not even gonna ask about lol i'm disappointed that the balance team got rid of links jab cancel but not fox's. because nerfing high tiers makes too much sense.

Falcon isn't an easy fight, but it's doable. If you have a better matchup, by all means use it, but M2 has the tools to at least pressure out of his usual strategies/approaches. learn to time Confusion for Falcon Kicks, pressure with shadow balls. The main thing is you do not want him to grab you.

 

[Ulevo]

Captain Falcon is overtuned and has a lot of bull****, honestly. But even despite that, it's a very difficult match up for Mewtwo. It's very hard to punish Falcon for anything he does, meanwhile there are punishment windows against Mewtwo everywhere.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

I've had only bad experiences with Sonic and Captain Falcon.
As I've said before...Mewtwo has a terrible time with characters that have fierce rushdown. Especially when paired with insane priority.

 

[False]

I think M2 vs Fox can be even. Fox is a fast faller and has a linear recovery; M2 eats that up. Conversely, Fox has tons of kill options while M2 is glass.. and he can combo the mess out of M2 because of his large frame.

i dont think is that bad of a mathcup because can intercept alot of fair combos has with his own fair, the only annoying thing with is her speed probably

I don't agree. Sheik's fair is too fast. M2's slow moves (although they have great range/auto cancels) can't deal. M2 generally has a problem against rush down characters, and Sheik can be the pinnacle of that.

 

[Nobie]

I think M2 vs Fox can be even. Fox is a fast faller and has a linear recovery; M2 eats that up. Conversely, Fox has tons of kill options while M2 is glass.. and he can combo the mess out of M2 because of his large frame.



I don't agree. Sheik's fair is too fast. M2's slow moves (although they have great range/auto cancels) can't deal. M2 generally has a problem against rush down characters, and Sheik can be the pinnacle of that.

I saw you beating PewPewU's Sheik pretty handily yesterday on stream. Is there anything that Mewtwo can exploit vs. Sheik, or is it just a matter of you having intimate knowledge of Shiek + PewPewU's lack of Mewtwo familiarity + you being better at this game in general?

 

[Sirgabite]

I saw you beating PewPewU's Sheik pretty handily yesterday on stream. Is there anything that Mewtwo can exploit vs. Sheik, or is it just a matter of you having intimate knowledge of Shiek + PewPewU's lack of Mewtwo familiarity + you being better at this game in general?

Mewtwo can intercept shieks fair combos at mid-high% with fair if he DI away and puts it out almost frame perfectly, because mewtwos fair has longer reach than sheiks, this is extreamly hard to do because of how fast sheik generally is but it is doable

 

[Oreoc1]

Ok I have down some testing and the three most difficultish characters through my fighting for Mewtwo are Mario/Dr.Mario, Rosalina and Zelda

 

[NavalMinisterTougo]

Air Fighters here. In my last few days of countless labbing of this legendary monster, I managed to get some rather interesting data on my main boxer from the bronx and this psychic behemoth.

Mewtwo gets anally annihilated

Seriously, Mac absolutely destroys Mewtwo to the point where I can't honestly say that anyone should be using Mewtwo against Mac no matter how good they are. Little Mac defensive playstyle and absolutely wondrous up-special can easily intercept him in the air for a kill or to stop him from dragging him down to the blastzone with his nair, Mewtwo can't do a damn thing about Mac's speed and stage control, his weight makes him unable to punish Mac on block like the rest of the cast if it's not a perfect shield, Mewtwo's grab range in general just makes it hard to get him off stage- Like really, you get the point. Mewtwo's only saving grace is his limited up-special, and only if you ledge cancel it really, and his side-special. Otherwise, just...don't play Mewtwo against a good Little Mac (which there aren't that many of anymore but hey, just the Mac's two cents on the matter.)