Pokemon Black2 and White2: Are we judging too soon?

[Aurane]

Link to original post: [drupal=5042]Pokemon Black2 and White2: Are we judging too soon?[/drupal]

I can’t stress this Quote enough for what people are already doing to B&W2: They’re judging the game by it’s title. This is rather sad, because this proves that we don’t give future Pokemon games a chance. To be honest, it’s childish to dis a game not even out. Give it a chance!

This game is to be the very first Pokemon game that is a sequal to another game, both in the Main Series. That, alone, can fill in the blank spots that are seen all over the game. If this game isn’t a sequal, and is a finisher as a Quad, this would not be the first time this has happened. Red-Blue-Green-Yellow. Whether you like it or not, Green IS part of the original series, and should be respected as such.

Plus we know nothing of this game. How could we say it sucks just because they’res two games coming out again, and are named 2? Tbh, I think ya’ll being a bunch of Purists, or people who’ll only stick with Red/Blue. Just shut your mouths and let this game have a chance!

If you’re sick and tired of the nonesense, I applaude you! Remember: Respect must be earned, but cannot be earned if you don’t give it a chance to be earned.

~Pokemon Fan AuraSage94~

 

[augustoflores]

interesting... i for one have already sided with the direction the franchise is taking. i am going to quote my first response to B&W2 from the main thread. ahem...

hmmm... looks like i missed out on the black and white II speculation... oh well... i shouldn't reignite it.......................
...
...
it's alright if it's just for the story. B&W did have a good story and it shouldn't be passed off as a generational thing... it should marinate. i aplaud that it's a sequel rather than a grey version (which is basically Yellow, Crystal, Emerald, Platinum compared). with what they did, they would have more freedom with the world they created... my hope is that you can capture the pokemon from previous regions in the wild... by this time, those pokemon should have migrated to this region already considering all of what happened in the last game (people trading in their pokemon from D,P&Pl) who knows how much time lapsed between the games? that's just me using my creative juices.

it was also said to be a trilogy... i believe...

 

[Aurane]

There is no proof that states there was suppose to be a third version, so no.

Unless someone can provide a link.

 

[augustoflores]

oh right, it was speculated to be a trilogy.

 

[Teran]

What's funny is that in essence, GSC was a sequel to RBY.

Sure you were a different trainer, but it had the same bad guys (Team Rocket), had ALL the prominent trainers from the original except Lorelei and Agatha, and so yeah when you think about it it was a direct sequel.

Honestly I don't really care if it's a sequel or whatever as long as it's good fun and it offers something new. Tbh, I can play the same version of Pokémon like 10 times and not get bored so maybe I'm in a minority here.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Yeah, Pokemon is slowly evolving into a franchise that is more amiable to older or more hardcore gamers. I encourage the direction they are taking, and hope we don't get any more "Emeralds" or "Diamonds", because those are like upgraded renditions of the previous two games, making the previous installments obsolete in comparison, whereas this time there is some continuity and purpose to both games.

 

[Aurane]

oh right, it was speculated to be a trilogy.

Yeah, pretty much.

What's funny is that in essence, GSC was a sequel to RBY.

Sure you were a different trainer, but it had the same bad guys (Team Rocket), had ALL the prominent trainers from the original except Lorelei and Agatha, and so yeah when you think about it it was a direct sequel.

Honestly I don't really care if it's a sequel or whatever as long as it's good fun and it offers something new. Tbh, I can play the same version of Pokémon like 10 times and not get bored so maybe I'm in a minority here.

I'd rather say Indirect, but pretty much this.

It's not about the games role, it's about it's value as a game, itself. I also heard a few complaints about Pokemon milking money? Guess what, people? THEY'RE A BUSINESS! For god's sake, this is a tactic that almost all video game businesses have used. Plus you CAN just buy one game, unless you want all the Pokemon, which is a sad excuse because that'd be your choice, then.

@HooH Where's the like button? See, this is what I'm talking about. Advancements: Fans like them. When this game comes out, it'll be popular, just like Emerald was. I won't mean this 100%, because I'm not a psychic.

 

[Teran]

Also I would say it's pretty obvious that it's actually a new spin on the 3rd installment tradition.

Basically there's a Zekrom-y and Reshiram-y Kyurem, so obviously each version showcases a different Kyurem form.

I mean **** if you're willing to pay for Pokémon Platinum after Diamond, what's such a big deal about Black/White 2? They may have split it into two versions but eh whatever.

Edit: I mean a lot of people buy both Red/Blue Gold/Silver for example so really if you feel that they're milking money it's because you're happy to offer your cash flow teat.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Although I hate to bring up the next generation or ones beyond that, the best thing about this is that in the sixth and beyond they're going to have to top the previous set. Now that they are thinking in such broader concepts, like with story and sequels, as innovators with fans baring large expectations, they are just going to have to step it up further, meaning the rate at which the Pokemon games accelerate in quality should jump considerably

The previous games have merely been improving with online capabilities, graphics, size of game, etc. but now they are showing that the other things the older generations care about more are being amplified.

...

*waits for Pokemon MMORPG*

 

[Oasis_S]

I hope they fix the major problem of B/W, which was not having your Pokemon follow you around like in HG/SS.

 

[lordvaati]

speaking of sequels, a lot of people also think the title gave hints that there might be a point where you go to hoenn.

what makes this nuts is that it solves the Ruby/Sapphire remake problem in a one-two punch, but if this is true...COULD THIS MEAN THAT B&W IS THE PREQUREL TO RUBY & SAPPHIRE?

 

[Aurane]

I hope they fix the major problem of B/W, which was not having your Pokemon follow you around like in HG/SS.

Yes. MAKE THIS HAPPEN! I want Lucario at my side once more >:I

speaking of sequels, a lot of people also think the title gave hints that there might be a point where you go to hoenn.

what makes this nuts is that it solves the Ruby/Sapphire remake problem in a one-two punch, but if this is true...COULD THIS MEAN THAT B&W IS THE PREQUREL TO RUBY & SAPPHIRE?

...No. Calm your jeans, bud. If this is about the colors, I'll rip everyone in half. Not saying it isn't possible, but very unlikely.

Red=Fire (Fusion Flare). Blue=Electricity (Fusion Bolt). That's my logical explaination of the color choices.

 

[Mr. Johan]

...COULD THIS MEAN THAT B&W IS THE PREQUREL TO RUBY & SAPPHIRE?

Ruby and Sapphire take place at the same time as Red and Blue, as Celio and Lannette are correspondents and set up a link system between Kanto and Hoenn during the events of FRLG. GSC take place 3 years after RBY, as does DPPt since the Lake of Rage event is being broadcast on TV at the beginning of those games. BW take place an untold amount of years after DPPt and RBY since Team Plasma references Team Rocket's and Team Galactic's failures, as well as Caitlin being physically a few years older.

Retcons could definitely happen, but as it stands at the moment, RSE take place years before BW do.

 

[Firus]

...No. Calm your jeans, bud. If this is about the colors, I'll rip everyone in half. Not saying it isn't possible, but very unlikely.

Red=Fire (Fusion Flare). Blue=Electricity (Fusion Bolt). That's my logical explaination of the color choices.

Don't be so fast to write off people's speculation. I agree that the title color is extremely unlikely to have anything to do with Ruby and Sapphire, but that doesn't mean that you should shoot anyone down when they try to come up with ideas. Does speculation of what could happen necessarily predict accurately? Most often, no. But it's still fun to do.

And personally, if they're to consider these "sequels" and more than just a third version divided into two games, I'd like to see something as significant as an added region. I'd love to see Hoenn especially, since third gen is my favorite and Hoenn is the most interesting of all the regions, in my opinion.

EDIT: Also, in regards to the "milking" argument...yes, they are a business, I think everyone's aware of that. The problem is that "milking" is more than just trying to make money, and it usually implies less effort for the sole sake of profit. I don't know about you, but I like quality games that aren't trying to suck money out of me. There's no way to know for sure that these games are anything less than what we've seen before, but considering they were just announced a few days ago and they're already slated for US release this fall, I would seriously hope that it's been in behind-the-scenes development for a while, or else I don't see how they could be much more than souped-up versions of Black and White.

And for clarification in regards to the "buying both games" piece, I never used to do that, but the thing is that I often get a desire to replay the Pokémon games, either in a solo run, or a Nuzlocke run, or just a general fast run because I want to play the game again, but I like to be able to keep a more solid, "complete" version around, too. So there are actually justifiable reasons for buying both games, in my opinion.

 

[Aurane]

Don't be so fast to write off people's speculation. I agree that the title color is extremely unlikely to have anything to do with Ruby and Sapphire, but that doesn't mean that you should shoot anyone down when they try to come up with ideas. Does speculation of what could happen necessarily predict accurately? Most often, no. But it's still fun to do.
Like I said, I'm not saying it's not possible, but it's very unlikely.

And personally, if they're to consider these "sequels" and more than just a third version divided into two games, I'd like to see something as significant as an added region. I'd love to see Hoenn especially, since third gen is my favorite and Hoenn is the most interesting of all the regions, in my opinion.
I agree. It would explain where N left off too, as we remember Looker said that he left for "A differen Region". Which one? Who's to say? I like that suspense, which is making me want to buy these games.

EDIT: Also, in regards to the "milking" argument...yes, they are a business, I think everyone's aware of that. The problem is that "milking" is more than just trying to make money, and it usually implies less effort for the sole sake of profit. I don't know about you, but I like quality games that aren't trying to suck money out of me. There's no way to know for sure that these games are anything less than what we've seen before, but considering they were just announced a few days ago and they're already slated for US release this fall, I would seriously hope that it's been in behind-the-scenes development for a while, or else I don't see how they could be much more than souped-up versions of Black and White.
Once again, it's a business. All businesses do this. My arguement is all the third versions of the Pokemon Main series games. That's the exact same thing. They just added more to the game, but overall it's the same game, just rewashed.
If these games are to be sequals, they can't be rewashes of the original, or else we're just going back to Emeralds and Crystals. The only difference I see here is that there's another third game. What's the issue? Just don't buy it. Solved.

And for clarification in regards to the "buying both games" piece, I never used to do that, but the thing is that I often get a desire to replay the Pokémon games, either in a solo run, or a Nuzlocke run, or just a general fast run because I want to play the game again, but I like to be able to keep a more solid, "complete" version around, too. So there are actually justifiable reasons for buying both games, in my opinion.
Right, but that's your choice, so therefore, the money you're paying is optional.

Responses are in Red.

 

[Spelt]

These games being for the original DS is ridiculous. The 3ds is a year old now, probably gonna be around 2 when the sequels actually get released. Old DS's are pretty much outdated technology now, Black and White look terrible on the 3ds. This is just a really ****ty move, and I'm sure Nintendo isn't happy about it at all.

It might change as we get more information but currently have a very low opinion of these games. It doesn't seem worth it to spend money on a game for an old system when I just bought the new one, and I'm sure many other 3ds owners feel the same.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I honestly don't see the big deal. I can wait for the next generation to take advantage of the 3DS.

 

[Oasis_S]

Come to think of it, can the 3DS play DS games online? If not, I think that'd be a legitimate complaint with the SITUATION.

 

[Spyro]

I have not gotten to play B/W yet, might have to pick it up soon.

Is it just me or is Nintendo and Gamefreak running out of ideas for Pokemon designs? I mean I like some of the new designs but some of the other designs just seem kind of stupid.

 

[Sephirothxxx]

I have not gotten to play B/W yet, might have to pick it up soon.

Is it just me or is Nintendo and Gamefreak running out of ideas for Pokemon designs? I mean I like some of the new designs but some of the other designs just seem kind of stupid.

I don't blame you. The gameplay and storyline in black and white is terrific, and I love the continuously animating sprites, but the pokemon look fake. And I thought the one's in diamond and pearl looked gay, but black and white defined it.

 

[Oasis_S]

Is it just me or is Nintendo and Gamefreak running out of ideas for Pokemon designs? I mean I like some of the new designs but some of the other designs just seem kind of stupid.

 

[Johnknight1]

What's funny is that in essence, GSC was a sequel to RBY.

Sure you were a different trainer, but it had the same bad guys (Team Rocket), had ALL the prominent trainers from the original except Lorelei and Agatha, and so yeah when you think about it it was a direct sequel.

Honestly I don't really care if it's a sequel or whatever as long as it's good fun and it offers something new. Tbh, I can play the same version of Pokémon like 10 times and not get bored so maybe I'm in a minority here.

If B/W 2 are exactly like that (a new region with 100 new Pokémon as well as the ability to explore the previous region 3 years in the future), then the fans will accept that, myself included. It doesn't need all those things (the 100 new Pokémon could be 2 or 20 for all I care), but it needs to add several things that make it a new game entirely.

My fear is that this may just be the same region but in the future, or literally just another substitute for a Yellow/Crystal/Emerald/Platinum version (which instead of one it would now be two). This may or may not be the case, but it is my worst fear.
[COLLAPSE="What I hope these sequels are, and what I hope they contain"]-A new story that is not just another "updated game" with a few plot details. I want a new adventure with a new character, possibly at a different time, like how G/S/C take place 3 years after R/B/G/Y.

-A few new Pokémon: They don't all have to be legendary. Again, it could be 2, it could be 20. Just make them worth getting. Maybe give most (if not all of them) unique qualities, like exclusive attacks or abilities, or maybe make them a interesting type combination (ie: Dragon and Normal, Flying only, Ghost and Normal, etc).

-A new region or semi-region: It doesn't need to be as big as Johto. At least make a Sevii Island kind of deal, except make it worth remembering and re-visiting.

-A completely revamped Unova. Not everything needs to change, but make towns and routes bigger. Add some extra details to locations in B/W. Maybe also allow us to explore more of the water and to dive in more waters. One example of a lackluster location I have is a forest that literally is just a waterfall, a few patches of grass, and a vehicle. Dang it, make the forest HUGE! Make me want want visit these locations!

-Add new locations to Unova. A few routes, special locations, towns, islands, surf areas, etc. Just add stuff. Personally, I would like a bike route and a walking route that would access that one town you could only get to by train. I would also like to surf to some islands, specifically to some islands off of Route 1 or below the starting town. I also would like to go surfing below several of the regions' bridges. Maybe there could be roads to walk on and patches of grass, too!

-Have a more streamline menu system: The menu is hard to access and tedious in W/B. The menu should be based around the best concepts from Platinum and HG/SS.

-Allow users to have rematches with most (if not all) trainers and gym leaders: I hate being limited to just a small handful of trainers I can battle.

-Give us things to do. Really, there weren't many events, and most of them were seasonal only. Make some more daytime/nighttime and various days of the week exclusive events. Heck, maybe even add some events that you can only access on a certain day on the month (like let's say the 25th) or some random stuff on specific holidays like Christmas. Maybe there could also be a cave or something that changes each day of the week, and you can explore it differently each time.

-Make the game feel "new." This is most important. HG/SS, while remakes, felt brand new to me. It was like a nostalgic memory, but it was brand new. I am still hooked to those games like a bad habit. Before I got these games, I didn't want another Pokémon game. I wasn't too high on R/S/E's, FR/LG, or D/P/Pl's replay value, and I thought the Pokémon Company and Game Freak were artistically done and were just giving out only small bits of stuff at a time. Boy way I wrong![/COLLAPSE]
If these Pokémon sequels do that, I will definitely be interested in them despite there being another probable followup. Hopefully this makes Game Freak and the Pokémon Company step up in terms of originality, content, and replay value instead of just taking our money and giving us version 1.3 of a game.

 

[TL?]

I'm hyped. It seemed to me like the the response to the news is pretty positive. Yeah, there are trolls on the internet but don't take them seriously. The "They're running out of ideas" lines are getting really dumb since they're finally actually changing stuff. Black and White, in my opinion are the best games in the series since gen 1 and 2. This is because they actually reconsider everything about the games and question if a mechanic could be improved or not, instead of just bringing it back as is because that's how its always been (examples: unlimited TMs, cutting down on HM use, low hp song instead of bleeps). Black and white were a major step in the right direction and I'm glad they have the opportunity to take it another step furthur.

 

[Aurane]

These games being for the original DS is ridiculous. The 3ds is a year old now, probably gonna be around 2 when the sequels actually get released. Old DS's are pretty much outdated technology now, Black and White look terrible on the 3ds. This is just a really ****ty move, and I'm sure Nintendo isn't happy about it at all.

It might change as we get more information but currently have a very low opinion of these games. It doesn't seem worth it to spend money on a game for an old system when I just bought the new one, and I'm sure many other 3ds owners feel the same.

****ty sales. That pretty much explains this.

Come to think of it, can the 3DS play DS games online? If not, I think that'd be a legitimate complaint with the SITUATION.

You can. If you couldn't, the 3DS would have ****tier sales.

I have not gotten to play B/W yet, might have to pick it up soon.

Is it just me or is Nintendo and Gamefreak running out of ideas for Pokemon designs? I mean I like some of the new designs but some of the other designs just seem kind of stupid.

Do it. They're both really awesome games.

Running out of ideas... Hmm... What Oasis_S said, but lemme fill in the blanks: They're ideas are either inspiring or ********. That's how Pokemon's been for years.

 

[-DR3W-]

Interested to see where this will go.

 

[Spelt]

****ty sales. That pretty much explains this.

The 3ds' sales are fine, where have you been for the last 6 months?

 

[infiniteV115]

I found that the only people that I met irl that didn't like BW were people that didn't even own them. Even some of my friends were being pretty negative about BW before it came out, but loved them when they finally got to try it out.

I think a lot of the people who say things like "there are already X gens/games out, adding more is just going to ruin it!" fail to recognize that Nintendo is an incredibly successful company that spends all its time trying to make its new games satisfy its customers in every way possible, whether the customers are new or old.

They're not stupid, they're not going to ruin the game.

 

[Oasis_S]

"Looks like the 3DS is doing poorly, better abandon it completely instead of making games like Mario, Pokemon, or Zelda to make people want to buy it."

 

[lordvaati]

These games being for the original DS is ridiculous. The 3ds is a year old now, probably gonna be around 2 when the sequels actually get released. Old DS's are pretty much outdated technology now, Black and White look terrible on the 3ds. This is just a really ****ty move, and I'm sure Nintendo isn't happy about it at all.

It might change as we get more information but currently have a very low opinion of these games. It doesn't seem worth it to spend money on a game for an old system when I just bought the new one, and I'm sure many other 3ds owners feel the same.

if you had tochoose between making a game for 40$ that plays on one system or a game that's35$ that plays on 2, which wouldyou choose?

 

[Spelt]

If you had to choose between buying a game for $40 that plays on the current gen system and buying a game for $5 less that plays on an outdated system, which would you choose?

 

[Holder of the Heel]

If you had to choose between being satisfied with the handheld system it is being released on or dissatisfied, which would you choose?

 

[Spelt]

Uh, what?

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Let me spelt it out for you.

Option 1: Be dissatisfied with it.

Option 2: Deal with it.

 

[Spelt]

Option 1 and 2 are the same thing. Thank you for understanding my feelings on this matter.

I am dealing with it, just not in the way you'd like me too. So you deal with that.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

...Darn my poor wording and your sophistry. D<

 

[Spelt]

Again, what?

 

[Vinylic.]

This not how a black and white discussion goes. Please discontinue, lol.

I mostly see that you guys are talking about the sales on the 3DS? They're doing fine.
Otherwise, how would you say that they are not when you have no proof to show that?

Anyways, take a look:

They're doing fine.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm looking forward to the continuation of Black and White's story, with the return of N...such a cool character.

 

[Firus]

Like I said, I'm not saying it's not possible, but it's very unlikely.

No, but you still shut down the suggestion.

Once again, it's a business. All businesses do this. My arguement is all the third versions of the Pokemon Main series games. That's the exact same thing. They just added more to the game, but overall it's the same game, just rewashed.

Perhaps I'm naive, but I'd like to think that not every business is putting out the worst crap they possibly can while still getting a profit. The third versions of the games are certainly a pretty good example of this kind of thing -- hell, the two versions in every generation is too -- but at least it's just one game with the third versions. Now they not only have the two versions, but they also have two of the third versions. If they don't make something more out of these two games, then they're really not even trying to cover up the fact that they're selling out just to make an extra buck.

Also, even if every business in the world does it, it doesn't mean I have to be okay with it.

If these games are to be sequals, they can't be rewashes of the original, or else we're just going back to Emeralds and Crystals. The only difference I see here is that there's another third game. What's the issue? Just don't buy it. Solved.

If these games are true sequels, then yes, they should be far more interesting than a third version. The more I think about it, the more the title indicates to me that they will be true sequels. I'm just concerned that they haven't changed the third game concept at all and they're rehashing Black and White.

Also, I hate it when somebody has a complaint about a game, movie, album, etc. and somebody says that the solution is to just not buy it. Are people not allowed to be upset on principle?

Right, but that's your choice, so therefore, the money you're paying is optional.

...Yes. Generally, unless we're talking about taxes and the like, money you spend is indeed optional. I'm trying to figure out where I denied that. All I'm doing is defending purchasing both games, saying that it's not completely hypocritical for me to buy both games and then have a potential issue with this.

I'm not making any final judgments on these games at all, and I'd love to see them shine as true sequels and step outside the precedent of the series so far, especially after recently picking up White again (something about naming all of my Pokémon after Buffy characters gives it new life). I'm just concerned that with such a close release, it is just going to be every other third game divided into two games. I just think it's better to consider the facts before assuming that Nintendo is going to make an excellent game, because as you said, they're a business.

 

[Spyro]

Do it. They're both really awesome games.

Running out of ideas... Hmm... What Oasis_S said, but lemme fill in the blanks: They're ideas are either inspiring or ********. That's how Pokemon's been for years.

I probable will soon, and when I say "running out of ideas", it's more like me saying "there's not a whole lot of new Pokemon I really like" lol. I like a few of them like emolga and zekrom, but not as many as the old game, maybe it's just nostalgia.