• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Please critique my Marth!

VietGeek

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
8,133
I'm going to say one thing I noticed on Snake:

You tried lunging toward him too much, and he put you into a trap that got you up in damage very quickly.

Not much else to say since Wi-Fi is all about who can use lag to their advantage better...

Also:

Wow, Steel's traps with Snake are...

interesting
 

cman

Smash Ace
Joined
May 17, 2008
Messages
593
You counter and fsmash wayy too much. You are pretty predictable at times (especially with countering). Try to use tilts and db a lot more. And work on spacing game so you don't get punished as much. Try to mix it up more when you get up off the ledge. You use the standard upjump thing a lot.

I realize marth is very hard to play on wi-fi, but try to use a little more variety in attacks and patterns
 

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
12,115
Location
Chicago, IL
Ya, I'm better than this offline too, but i don't really have anyone to play, so it's either Wi-Fi or CPU. And I do need to tilt more, and I DB more offline, the lag messes me up when I try and then I'll normally eat a powerful move online. Thanks for the help though guys, I need to mix up fsmashes with Ftilts and dash attacks.
 

Steel

Where's my Jameson?
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
7,587
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Before anyone else says "I'm not critiquing this because it's wifi":

Of course wifi is ghey, but it still gives you match up experience and it gives you the general idea of how each person plays their character. You can tell them mistakes that they are making and how to correct them.

I'll critique a few of these later.
 

cman

Smash Ace
Joined
May 17, 2008
Messages
593
Before anyone else says "I'm not critiquing this because it's wifi":

Of course wifi is ghey, but it still gives you match up experience and it gives you the general idea of how each person plays their character. You can tell them mistakes that they are making and how to correct them.

I'll critique a few of these later.
Did anyone do that yet?
 

Steel

Where's my Jameson?
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
7,587
Location
Los Angeles, CA
K, here we go.

Vs. Meta Knight

:05-:13, you let Meta zone you with his tilts and racked up a good amount of % on you, a SHFF fair will let you go over his dtilt and knock him away

:22, missed fsmash and I punish. Dtilt would have worked fine here.

:37, i predicted the counter because in our previous matches that's ALL you would do. You'd always get up with a counter. Meta dsmashes to take off a stock.

:48-1:11, I easily rack up percent here by just punishing stupid mistakes and poor spacing.

1:13, pointless shieldbreaker, i punish and take off a stock

1:23, not very good ledge spacing. You should have set up a ledge trap of some sort but instead you were right on top of the edge and I could have easily punished that or at least got by it. luckily i just killed myself.

1:37, man i'm good.

1:42, what's with all these random smashes? tilts, tilts, tilts.

1:46, another counter get up, easily predicted and punished.

2:18, see above.


Vs. Falco

:08, we'll be seeing a lot of this. Most of the time i D-throw'd you you just up b'd to get out of the CG which i didn't do >_> Have to play smarter than that, i easily predicted each up b you would do.

:14, not so good spacing here and you just landed on my shield.

:30, another fsmash and I'm at 5%. Dtilt here plz.

:35, dunno what that shield breaker was for, but you should have made some kind of edge guard attempt.. or at least grab the ledge cus falco's recovery sucks.

:48, another up b. your % was already out of CG range and i didn't make any attempt to run towards you.

1:26, you should have predicted my side-b recovery and positioned yourself to punish me. Instead you fell off the stage and got pseudo-spiked

1:36, don't counter the side-b either. You won't get hurt but it's better to wait around the middle of the stage and punish my ending lag.

2:16, stop using shield breaker to recover when you're that close. Fair gives you forward momentum too

At this point you aren't using ANY tilts pretty much. You should be able to dominate falco with your zoning and spacing of tilts, but you aren't taking advantage of that.

2:42, don't bother countering a spaced reflector. ill just shoot out another one. approach with your shield or something.


Vs. Snake (vid 1)

:12, walked right into that ftilt

:21 - 1:02, snake completely dominates you with his ledge trap. Now, marth's ledge options suck. But your ledge recovery was so easy to take advantage of I took you from like 46% to 180%. That's bad. Mix it up so I can't do that.

1:20, risky and completely missed short hop shield breaker, you eat an ftilt.

1:43, another fsmash. I wasn't in a very vulnerable position, use dem tilts sir.

1:49, counter isn't a very good option in this situation, as you can see.

??? @the SH shield breakers

2:00 - end of the match, here we go again, my ledge trap just destroys you. You let Snake completely control both of the matches. You ran right into most of his traps and got owned. His power level is over 9000.


You need to play a LOT smarter. Way too many stupid mistakes with your up b, smashes, shield breaker, counter etc.

Use more tilts, i didn't see too many dtilts. Let alone ftilts/up tilts. They are very important and are a lot safer than the smashes you keep using. Also use more dancing blade.


Meta Knight:

Play more campy, SHFF fairs and more dtilts. If I try to zone you throw a dancing blade in my face.

Falco:

Once you get inside his blaster and reflector range you should be able to own him with your tilts and dancing blade. You didn't do that.

Snake:

Don't fall for his traps, try to avoid getting blown up. Second vid you got hit by an fsmash, don't do that.

Your marth is ok, but you need to play a lot smarter like I said. I think you also lack match up experience.

Any questionz?
 

crazn137

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 3, 2008
Messages
441
Location
Chicago, IL
Seeing as MK I know more about MK's match-up then the other characters, I'll give him a shot first. Might come back and do some later tonight depending on how bored I am.

That fsmash right at the beginning of the match pretty much let Steel put you into a bad position. Right from the start, you're already looking at being forced off the stage.

Following that, there are a whole bunch of fsmashes and counters. Almost every time, Steel punishes and you lose a stock

You used SB too much during the wrong times. You try using it as an edgeguard. This puts you off the stage where you charge SB again to return. Steel easily jumps off and take another one of your stocks.

Now you start getting lucky. A missed Up B and a bad Tornado puts Steel down to one stock.

That doesn't help much, as you repeatedly mis-use or mis-space counter, fsmash, and SB. He punishes each time, and quickly takes off your third stock.

I can tell you have a nice grasp on the basics, and I'm pretty sure you'd do better against another character or match-up that you know. However, your bad usage of fsmash, SB, and counter are what kept you from getting more damage and stocks from Steel. Against MK, you have to be pacient, space well, and be careful of how MK attacks. I know this is wifi, but even over wifi, you can still do a little bit of this.

You abused SB both in the air and on the ground. Steel took advantage each time, making you that much closer to dieing.

Counter, although a very useful move, should only be used every once in a while. Steel recognized your over usage of counter, and baited it out. You were too obvious countering from the ledge. Try mixing things up a bit, as Marth really is terrible on the ledge.

Fsmash is ugly, slow, and causes chronic bleeding of the cornea. Do NOT over use this move. Replace it with ftilt or DB. You over used it, and wore it off for when it would have been a viable kill move. Especially against MK, you want to avoid using a move that has too much lag on it.

It looks as if you're trying to jump right on to the advanced moves such as SB, but you still have yet to get a grasp of the basics. Your spacing is off, and your move choice isn't quite what it should be.

I recommend looking over some of the stickies on simple tricks and hints for playing as Marth. I know it sounds way too simple, but it really helps. I hit a brick wall in terms of spacing and had pretty much the same problems you have right now. Looking over those threads, while at the same time comparing my gameplay to what it should be, really helped me improve.

I can't wait to play you online and at the Chicago smash club meetings. Good luck with your Marth :)
 

∫unk

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
4,952
Location
more than one place
Okay... quick steps on how to get better:

1) For every time you feel like an f-smash would be good, try d-tilt. Every situation won't call for a d-tilt but this will get you in a habit of abusing one of Marth's best attacks.
2) Your mindgames right now suck. Keep changing how you approach, or just stop countering altogether. Countering is not something you just throw out it involves many things like prior experience with the opponent, how much you've conditioned them into thinking it's okay to attack, etc.
3) If it doesn't work once, it's most likely not going to work the second time. This is true for ALL your attacks. You try shieldbreaker, it fails, then a few moves or even the next move is a shieldbreaker. They now expect it. Same thing with counter. These conditional moves cannot be spammed. They can be used a few times a match and that's it. If you want to spam use f-air and dancing blade. This holds true to your approaches movement too. Mix it up with rolls, SH AD, etc.

Summary: Less f-smash, less shieldbreaker, more tilts, more DB, more different approaches, keep mixing everything up.
 

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
12,115
Location
Chicago, IL
Thanks a lot guys, I'm glad you are helping me out, I've learned a lot from just these few pots so far, and think it will help me improve my Marth. I'm trying to add in more tilts too, and I think one of the main things I need to do is just mix up my game. Crazn, you said you were on vacation, I added you to Wi-Fi and when you get back PM me and I'd love to brawl you.
 

IDK

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
1,708
Location
Yo Couch
dont get caught by that stupid edgeguard. ledgejump>airdodge, get up and SHAD, or roll out. that or when the mortar is up time the counter better. at 0:44 you had the perfect opportunity to gimp him in two ways. easiest would probably be catching his cypher. you also had a good opportunity to spike. snake is pretty easy to spike too. you actually didnt try to spike at all. remember the no-fast-fall, the footstool>spike, the double jump dair, front AND back spike. roll away from grenades or jump/SHAD over them. lastly... don't get owned by lagless lasers...
 

Shaya

   「chase you」 
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
27,654
Location
/人◕‿‿◕人\ FABULOUS Max!
NNID
ShayaJP
Don't take me wrong from here on out:

What's the definition for insanity again? Off the top of my head:
A person who continually does the same action even though that action did not give the desired result.
In other words, going overboard with stuff that doesn't work.
One could at least say that in this case, your Marth, is insane. It's a nice thing you can tell your friends with a wry smile.

I cringed at every counter. At every approach...
What at least Steel did in his post was show what you did wrong at many intervals, but what I feel is your deepest issue is more your mindset and knowledge.

You have an [visually] obvious lack of understanding of many game mechanics. From knowing the basics of the range of your attacks (this comes before learning to space; spacing comes from experience...), to the speed/etc of the attacks you use. Those tidbits of knowledge create a smart player from an average player. And then approaches/strategies come from 'the knowledge' (everything you read here) and experience.

Your strategies are exceptionally easy to read, and I'm sure from -this- you'll probably learn to avoid doing what you did... I hope. The main things you need to do is not being a one attack user... SB everytime you're in the air to move? what? You don't seem to airdodge enough. And of course you may be ignorant of how countering in the air just halts your movement...

Now I think a bit more clearly...
YOU JUST DON'T DODGE AT ALL.
 

grandmaster192

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
567
Location
Minnesota:
3DS FC
3196-5457-3748
From what I seen, that Marth needs more speed and aggression. You want to over power people with Marth's quickest attacks. People don't know what hit 'em.

Also, don't let MetaKnight charge at you like that. If you just sit back and let him come at you, you're probably gonna get killed.
 

Steel

Where's my Jameson?
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
7,587
Location
Los Angeles, CA
From what I seen, that Marth needs more speed and aggression. You want to over power people with Marth's quickest attacks. People don't know what hit 'em.

Also, don't let MetaKnight charge at you like that. If you just sit back and let him come at you, you're probably gonna get killed.
Sorry, but that was some pretty ****ty advice. No one can succeed being purely aggressive. Even if it looks like they are moving around quickly, they are probably being patient, watching their spacing, and not making any risky decisions.

And you can't rush Meta... he'll destroy you. As it was stated multiple times in our MK discussion, you need to try and camp MK and keep him out with your tilts and fairs.
 

grandmaster192

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
567
Location
Minnesota:
3DS FC
3196-5457-3748
Sorry, but that was some pretty ****ty advice. No one can succeed being purely aggressive. Even if it looks like they are moving around quickly, they are probably being patient, watching their spacing, and not making any risky decisions.

And you can't rush Meta... he'll destroy you. As it was stated multiple times in our MK discussion, you need to try and camp MK and keep him out with your tilts and fairs.
By aggressive, I don't mean charging at people fsmashing into their shield or whatever. What I mean is be fast and dictate to pace of the match. You want to try and control your oppentent with Marth. Put the match as a pace that's favorable for Marth's attacks.

I say out attack/outspace the MetaKnight. the camping crap won't work. Or atleast I don't think it will. Perhaps I just not getting it.
 

Steel

Where's my Jameson?
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
7,587
Location
Los Angeles, CA
By aggressive, I don't mean charging at people fsmashing into their shield or whatever. What I mean is be fast and dictate to pace of the match. You want to try and control your oppentent with Marth. Put the match as a pace that's favorable for Marth's attacks.

I say out attack/outspace the MetaKnight. the camping crap won't work. Or atleast I don't think it will. Perhaps I just not getting it.
Control the opponent? Yes. I misunderstood what you meant, but what I'm getting at is it's not the only way to play Marth.

The camping crap does work. You aren't getting it.
 

Rave925

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
170
Location
Schwenksville, PA
wow, I really wanted to help critique your marth, but it seems that you got more than enough help from people, for sure. But yeah, you need to learn how to play more defensively atleast against mk. I noticed meany times you would just throw out the smashes for no reason and you would get punished for it. Try fast falling fairs more. Ummm....theres a lot of stuff you could improve on, but then again, everyones already critiqued your Marth and I hope you take what they say into consideration.
 
Top Bottom