Thane of Blue Flames
Fire is catching.
Now that I have your attention ...
Let's talk about planking. Planking is not a strategy. It is a stall tactic, a way for certain players to goad their opponent into making a mistake out of frustration or impatient. It is a button combination an eight-year old could input with ease and has no real disadvantages for certain characters. Specifically, if you have a tether, planking carries absolutely no risk for you but can yield ample rewards if you're willing to play the waiting game and you happen to be ahead. Hell, you can probably get a gimp out of it if you're able to goad an over-extension out of an opponent on even stocks.
Now, let's talk suggestion.
Suggestion: Code a ledge-grab limit of x per airtime
Don't tell me it does't make sense. The ledge is not a place you should want to be. "Oh no, I lost my tenuous grip on the very edge of this surface. Let me use my arbitrary ability to conjure a phantom surface in the air to jump right back up and grab it. Whew. Close one." Point being, if you're against this based on some sort of logical ground, go hang off the edge of a cliff for a few minutes while thinking about how this is a video game so your own superhuman ability to stay on a ledge for over twenty seconds need not transfer over.
To be specific: I am of the opinion that you should be able to grab the edge once per airtime, and cannot grab the edge again if you let it go until you touch the ground again. If you are hit in the air, the ledge grab ability refreshes, much like one's Up-B out of special fall.
So yeah, x = 1. Pretty harsh, but I think I may have good reasons that will convince you to at least think about it. Let's think about what sort of effect this could potentially have on the metagame.
Recovery May Become More Difficult
This is one reason we may not want to implement an LGL. You would be correct, but I would like to add: So?
I've heard complaints from a multitude of players, especially from the Melee background, about how it's too easy to recover in Project M. While I do not fully agree (better recoveries = characters can go deeper and farther out for gimps. See: Ivy, Sonic, Ike to an extent), it is true that edgeguarding in this game is for the adults, not the children. You gotta be a Marth or an Ivy or a Pit to come between a stage and a character in P:M and any change that tips the scales in favor of the edgeguarder will probably not be unwelcome, nor unbalancing.
This is ignoring the fact that most multi-step edgeguards do not involve multiple ledge-grabs. If a recovering character makes it to the ledge, the edgeguarder has likely failed and needs to return to the stage himself. The LGL does not change the ledge dynamics too much, for ledge-hops were always rather risky: If you trade during a ledge-hop, you are likely not coming back. With LGL in place, the ledge-hop becomes much more punishable, eliminates the need for the edgeguarder to hog the edge if he successful in swatting and makes the predictable ledge get-up/ ledge get-up attack / roll onto stage more favorable options, while maintaining their inherent risk of being highly punishable. In short, the actual mechanics and ledge dynamics do not change much, but the ledge becomes far more unsafe, ledge-hop trades now greatly favor the edgeguarder at mid percents and recovery takes a subtle nerf, all while making edgeguarding deeper, but not free.
In truth, multiple ledge-grabs without touching the ground do not come up at all outside of planking. While it was a huge part of both Melee and Brawl, so was imbalance. Planking does not add any depth to the game, is not strategic, and carries no inherent risks for it is scarcely punishable and against characters with poor off-stage options, planking actively shuts down a lot of options. We lose nothing of value and gain a more engaging game overall. You could say it's one of things iconic to the Smash series, but I don't think that's exactly a good thing, nor exactly true. Smash 4 is looking to eliminate planking through revised ledge invincibility mechanics, considering to be an interesting but largely positive step. (Note: Project M should absolutely not consider adopting said mechanic. Leaving aside the fact that we lack details on it, it also crimps edge-hogging which is a very precise skill far more integral to the metagame than planking.)
If you can get past the seeming 'arbitrary' nature of the single LGL - consider that we get only one non-refreshible jump in the air, one air-dodge and one recovery unless we're hit out of special fall, you start to see that it's a rather elegant solution, perhaps more so than even Smash 4's and is very much how things should have been from the beginning. Repeat after me, guys: Unless you're Bowser,
THE LEDGE IS NOT A PLACE YOU SHOULD WANT TO BE
I would very much like to hear the community's thoughts on this topic, as well as the PM:BR if they choose not to remain silent and grace this thread with their input. Discuss.
Let's talk about planking. Planking is not a strategy. It is a stall tactic, a way for certain players to goad their opponent into making a mistake out of frustration or impatient. It is a button combination an eight-year old could input with ease and has no real disadvantages for certain characters. Specifically, if you have a tether, planking carries absolutely no risk for you but can yield ample rewards if you're willing to play the waiting game and you happen to be ahead. Hell, you can probably get a gimp out of it if you're able to goad an over-extension out of an opponent on even stocks.
Now, let's talk suggestion.
Suggestion: Code a ledge-grab limit of x per airtime
Don't tell me it does't make sense. The ledge is not a place you should want to be. "Oh no, I lost my tenuous grip on the very edge of this surface. Let me use my arbitrary ability to conjure a phantom surface in the air to jump right back up and grab it. Whew. Close one." Point being, if you're against this based on some sort of logical ground, go hang off the edge of a cliff for a few minutes while thinking about how this is a video game so your own superhuman ability to stay on a ledge for over twenty seconds need not transfer over.
To be specific: I am of the opinion that you should be able to grab the edge once per airtime, and cannot grab the edge again if you let it go until you touch the ground again. If you are hit in the air, the ledge grab ability refreshes, much like one's Up-B out of special fall.
So yeah, x = 1. Pretty harsh, but I think I may have good reasons that will convince you to at least think about it. Let's think about what sort of effect this could potentially have on the metagame.
Recovery May Become More Difficult
This is one reason we may not want to implement an LGL. You would be correct, but I would like to add: So?
I've heard complaints from a multitude of players, especially from the Melee background, about how it's too easy to recover in Project M. While I do not fully agree (better recoveries = characters can go deeper and farther out for gimps. See: Ivy, Sonic, Ike to an extent), it is true that edgeguarding in this game is for the adults, not the children. You gotta be a Marth or an Ivy or a Pit to come between a stage and a character in P:M and any change that tips the scales in favor of the edgeguarder will probably not be unwelcome, nor unbalancing.
This is ignoring the fact that most multi-step edgeguards do not involve multiple ledge-grabs. If a recovering character makes it to the ledge, the edgeguarder has likely failed and needs to return to the stage himself. The LGL does not change the ledge dynamics too much, for ledge-hops were always rather risky: If you trade during a ledge-hop, you are likely not coming back. With LGL in place, the ledge-hop becomes much more punishable, eliminates the need for the edgeguarder to hog the edge if he successful in swatting and makes the predictable ledge get-up/ ledge get-up attack / roll onto stage more favorable options, while maintaining their inherent risk of being highly punishable. In short, the actual mechanics and ledge dynamics do not change much, but the ledge becomes far more unsafe, ledge-hop trades now greatly favor the edgeguarder at mid percents and recovery takes a subtle nerf, all while making edgeguarding deeper, but not free.
In truth, multiple ledge-grabs without touching the ground do not come up at all outside of planking. While it was a huge part of both Melee and Brawl, so was imbalance. Planking does not add any depth to the game, is not strategic, and carries no inherent risks for it is scarcely punishable and against characters with poor off-stage options, planking actively shuts down a lot of options. We lose nothing of value and gain a more engaging game overall. You could say it's one of things iconic to the Smash series, but I don't think that's exactly a good thing, nor exactly true. Smash 4 is looking to eliminate planking through revised ledge invincibility mechanics, considering to be an interesting but largely positive step. (Note: Project M should absolutely not consider adopting said mechanic. Leaving aside the fact that we lack details on it, it also crimps edge-hogging which is a very precise skill far more integral to the metagame than planking.)
If you can get past the seeming 'arbitrary' nature of the single LGL - consider that we get only one non-refreshible jump in the air, one air-dodge and one recovery unless we're hit out of special fall, you start to see that it's a rather elegant solution, perhaps more so than even Smash 4's and is very much how things should have been from the beginning. Repeat after me, guys: Unless you're Bowser,
THE LEDGE IS NOT A PLACE YOU SHOULD WANT TO BE
I would very much like to hear the community's thoughts on this topic, as well as the PM:BR if they choose not to remain silent and grace this thread with their input. Discuss.
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