Playing slowly

[Jackie]

Smash philosophy time!
Today's topic: playing slowly at a high level.

I'm from AZ so I play Forward, Axe, etc. who are extremely fast technical players. Axe basically likes to move as much as possible to confuse and overwhelm his opponent.

My question: is playing playing fast a demonstration of improved competence in this game or is it simply a style of play?

Spoiler

or other

What are the advantages of slowing down the match?

 

[DippnDots]

at very high level play i'd say it's necessary. Years ago you could play slower and compete at high end but it doesn't seem to be that way anymore.

See zanguzen

 

[Pr0jecT]

Not so much playing "fast," but having solid well thought out movement is whats important.

You can play slow as ****, as long as it's smart. Hbox for example.

 

[Brookman]

there's a difference between executing movement quickly and literally playing (read: thinking) fast.

 

[Divinokage]

In general, high level matches happen extremely quickly, I've been told repeatedly that I move too fast for the game (from lower skilled players)... The more you level up, the better your reaction time gets and the less frames you waste trying to follow up combos or space yourself. You have to know every moves perfectly.

Basically you have to get used to your own style and refine it to the maximum. I don't know at what level your style becomes more apparent.. but there are definitely distinctive styles amongst the smashers. Some overwhelm you with frame data and technical.. some overwhelm you with raw experience from past games, some win just by battle experience and others can win by just being extremely smart. Of course there's a mix of everything but it's good to be aware of this I think for you and for everyone else.

Soo ya playing faster is different for everybody.. Some play slower on purpose to see what the opponent is doing or trying to see his patterns.. while some other will not wait and will try to bait the opponent to do something and then punish him.. It's kinda cool.

Edit: Your own style is what makes a high level player strong since he has a strong foundation because of it. That's something everyone needs to figure out themselves and stop asking questions! =P

 

[JPOBS]

i hate people who associate a fast playstyle with a lack of thinking/reads.

this usually happens with brawl players and noob mele players who say crap like " i dont waveglitch and L-break, im just smart."
ugh

 

[Pi]

some characters have a better fast pressure game than others,
other characters rely more on that one hit into a zero death combo, so they look for ways to land that one hit

i think what it boils down to is how comfortable you feel against your opponent, or your character against your opponents character

if you feel like you can overwhelm your opponent, then by all means spam safe **** into his shield and punish his reaction too it

but some times it's better to just bait approaches and punish those, especially if you're a character that isn't fox or falco.

 

[Deleted member]

fast =/= good.
slow =/= good.
good = good.

 

[Dr_Strangelove]

i hate people who associate a fast playstyle with a lack of thinking/reads.

this usually happens with brawl players and noob mele players who say crap like " i dont waveglitch and L-break, im just smart."
ugh

What on earth are you talking about? Nobody has said this in the thread, and nobody says it full stop.
I'm pretty sure OP means that the player wavedashes and L-cancels, but doesn't run around the map like a fly with adhd.

Yes it is possible, HugS looks to have quite a lazy playstyle, but it's incredibly effective.

 

[KirbyKaze]

It's just a style of play.

I think there is a speed minimum you need to be able to function at in order to be able to compete effectively, but it varies for MUs and characters.

 

[mers]

Speed is a really vague term. Cactuar's Fox doesn't look all that fast compared to some others, but that APM thread clocked him really really high. Similarly, I betcha Hugs' APM is higher than most people would guess.

 

[gm jack]

You have to be able to play fast if necessary. If you choose to run around and try to overwhelm your opponent is the choice.

 

[Stev]

The more you level up, the better your reaction time gets and the less frames you waste trying to follow up combos or space yourself.

Can't I just use rare candies and carbos?

 

[Divinokage]

Can't I just use rare candies and carbos?

While I see life as a game unfortunately that is not the case this time. =P

Though.. you could use "candy" to temporarily change your perception which might buff or debuff you. =P

 

[Brookman]

fast =/= good.
slow =/= good.
good = good.

Flawless logic.

 

[Vigilante]

Style. I mean, sometimes, moving fast isn't the solution.

Some characters, e.g. Bowser can use lag to their advantage. but really, good players don't necessarily press buttons fast. They press at the right timing. Some players are more the flowing type, some more reactive to other players, some agressive. Yet all are acceptable styles. I move faster than average, but tend to beat poeple who move faster than me. Sure they move faster but make unecessary movements.

I think a good player will also only stick to whatever is needed. Chu, as seen in the project M tourney, is not that fast and does very well. His moves aren't fast but connect well. His move sflow into each other. Whether you need speed comba tor not can also depend on the character. Fox kind of requires you to be a fast button presser. Falco requires both speed and flow at about equal level, albeit less speed than Fox. Kirby, Ness, DK, for example require more flow than speed.

But in the end, I think reaction time speed is important, but at the same time, a good player will most of the time be able to see a move coming from the move startup animation or from a logical assessement of the situation. SKill isn't just about mastering mechanics, but it is also a battle of wit.

In the end, if you,re able to predict your opponent, he already lost most of the time.

 

[Cactuar]

My speed is mostly in the low number of frames I waste between actions, regardless of how many actions I'm actually doing. All I used to practice whenever I would play by myself is landing an aerial and being able to dash ASAP, or wavedashing into dash ASAP. Then I would practice doing it on opponents and making sure that the hitlag didn't mess me up.

My actual playstyle is relatively slow because I'm just baiting the opponent into a situation I'm comfortable with, then I go button crazy on them.

 

[Vigilante]

The predator kind of gameplay, huh? Lay a trap and go for the kill?

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

What on earth are you talking about? Nobody has said this in the thread, and nobody says it full stop.
I'm pretty sure OP means that the player wavedashes and L-cancels, but doesn't run around the map like a fly with adhd.

Yes it is possible, HugS looks to have quite a lazy playstyle, but it's incredibly effective.

he's not implying that the OP said this, or anyone else in this thread. he's referring to people who say that, because, people do. He's saying that in reference to certain brawl players thinking lcancelling and wavedashing is just 'tech-junky' stuff that is only used to look faster. People are unaware of efficiency apparently

My actual playstyle is relatively slow because I'm just baiting the opponent into a situation I'm comfortable with, then I go button crazy on them

i hear people say this but i can't visualize it in smash..if you ever get a chance, enlighten me on a given situation example

 

[JPOBS]

What on earth are you talking about? Nobody has said this in the thread, and nobody says it full stop.
I'm pretty sure OP means that the player wavedashes and L-cancels, but doesn't run around the map like a fly with adhd.

Yes it is possible, HugS looks to have quite a lazy playstyle, but it's incredibly effective.

I didn't say (or even imply) that anyone in the thread said anything of the sort.

In fact, I was agreeing with the OP.

chill out brah.

 

[Zodiac]

It really depends on your opponents ability to handle it imo, I fought someone who beat my slow paced sheik with their falco, then I switched to fox and just spammed tech skill and they didnt know how to handle it. sometimes they like to play fast so when you force the pace to go slower they get uncomfortable and it may give you more of an advantage.

 

[Cactuar]

@trahh: This situation happens every time someone jumps in early enough to give you time to dd out. Them hitting the ground while you dd is the "comfortable situation", because its something you are familiar with and know how to punish. You are baiting this by slowly moving in or out of neutral. blahblahblah

 

[Kanelol]

fast =/= good.
slow =/= good.
good = good.

this is the smartest post i've ever seen

 

[Mooo]

it's kind of hard to debate because fast playstyle really isn't clearly defined. either you just dd and run all over the place doing wavedashs and lands and jumps and all that or you react really fast. the first i'd say is more a kind of personal style that a lot of high skilled people tend to have, mainly because you really dont want your hands to do nothing after clocking in and doing technical combos etc. it's like how one should always walk a little bit after he has been running.
the latter makes a player more skilled, because by wasting less frames in between attacks so that he can follow up faster is really needed to compete on a high level i'd say.

 

[Bones0]

A lot of the time when players are doing fast, but seemingly useless stuff it is for spacing and baiting purposes. Dash dancing is probably the most obvious example. Most casual players see dash dancing and go "it looks cool, but doesn't seem useful." At higher levels of play, however, dash dancing is great because the opponent cannot tell if the dash is going to turn right around or if you're going to come flying at him with an attack. It also creates subtle differences in how far away you are. At one end of your dash dance length you will be far enough that you can't hit each other, but at the other end you could. A player who doesn't utilize dash dancing has more obvious movements and is more easily predicted. It's harder to bait people into attacking because you cannot change direction so quickly. That's how I see it, anyway.