Pkmn Trainer with no fatigue and no force switching

[Ghetto Fabulous]

How does splitting up 3 chars turn into doing stuff for other mains - without good arguments most likely? Or a good enough reason too? I see no harm in splitting up the Pokemon... Squirtle would probably be high tier, and Ivy/Char would be mid or lower... what's the issue with that? It's not like it's "buff metaknight more because the mains want it" <_<

I completely agree, I am tired of people saying that this idea was created and exists to make pokemon trainer better. IT ISN'T. It's just a different way of using the same characters, none of them are getting buffed in this situation.

 

[Retro Gaming]

I didn't read through the page directly before this deeply, so I apologize if this is more or less what has developed, but the only real argument that I can give against removing stamina/forced switching outright is that you would lose the one real Pokemon Trainer character. Even if you simply remove stamina/forced switching and don't bother adding Squirtle/Ivysaur/Charizard as separate characters on the character select screen, the "team Pokemon Trainer" is practically abolished, as it would be a rare case where someone switched in the middle of a match intentionally, as opposed to just sticking with the best Pokemon throughout the duration of the match.

Additionally, the option of simply removing stamina/forced-switching from Pokemon Trainer is a Pokemon Trainer specific buff. If it was implemented, I'm sure it wouldn't be long before other characters start asking for buffs for their respective characters.

As I stated on the first page, assuming you're trying to keep that team-oriented character in the game, then I don't see a problem with removing stamina, because when combined with forced switching on death it becomes redundant.

I've talked about what changes I think would be good for Pokemon Trainer's switching menchanics with the Brawl+ community, and I have to suggest a slightly moddified version here. The character select screen would be made up of four Pokemon Trainer characters: Pokemon Trainer, Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard.

Pokemon Trainer would play exactly the same as he currently does.

The three individual Pokemon, when selected from the character select screen, with three modifications:

• No Stamina
• No Forced Switching on Knock-Out
• No Down Special to switch

However, I want to add that this still technically changes the game; all characters have three "new match-ups" (as currently it is rare that in one match you won't see more than one Pokemon). Still, this is what I would consider to be the best course of option because it buffs no current characters, and is a universal change, akin to removing tripping.

 

[Ghetto Fabulous]

assuming that what you said last was an idea from brawl plus that we would be bringing in to regular brawl tournaments, I couldn't agree more as it sums up my entire argument. All it would do is give tourny goers more options, and could not be considered a buff for pokemon trainer. And yes it would change the game, but so did removing tripping. This is why it is actually being considered for implementation

 

[Tien2500]

Man people have to lay off Sakurai. He simply didn't make the game for the uber competitive tournament going crowd. If you want to take a game that wasn't meant to be that competitive and make it competitive this is the stuff you have to deal with.

Anyway if they had Trainer as an individual and seperate characters it would be hard to really argue with that. Although honestly I'd rather just have a Squirtle/Zard combo with or without fatigue.

 

[Steeler]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=214958

...

 

[Ghetto Fabulous]

I read a lot from the thread you just posted, and all I can say is that most of the people did not take into consideration the lengthy post you initially put. The idea that separating the pokemon should not be allowed because everyone doesn't have their wiis hacked is a weak argument, as new hacks are being found everyday, its appeal is steadily growing, and more and more people are doing it. I mean you can create new character costumes, I dont care what the original design of the game was, but toon link deserves more than just different colors. It would not surprise me if people set up booths at tournaments where they would hack your wii for a small charge, putting on it whatever you wanted. It is an easy process, it poses no danger, and only makes the game more fun.

Anyways, at the same time, most of those people continually kept saying that if buffs pokemon trainer. I can only assume that these people are just plain unintelligent. There really can't be much more to it. If by buff they mean the character is better, then perhaps they can explain how squirtle getting cg by marth to his death each stock is easier to deal with than using the other two who do not get cg.

If these characters were split up originally, NO ONE would be saying ****. But because it is a hack, everyone has an issue with it. In a year or so, if you do not have your wii hacked and u bring it to a tournament, you will be a rare occurrence. The appeal of so many different hacks being introduced all the time is going to win over the tournament crowd, it is only a matter of time.

And this would be by no means a slippery slope, as pokemon trainer IS NOT GETTING BUFFED SO PLEASE STOP F****** ARGUING THIS. If you all agree that ivysaur is the worst of the three, then how is using just ivysaur a buff. The best one, squirtle imo, has to deal with grab release shenanagins that would only increase as people became more and more aware of them. Each character by itself gains some disadvantage to a bunch of characters by having to be by itself all the time. The same goes for all characters, they all have some sort of disadvantage to someone else. The same goes for the three pokemon. No one is getting buffed, this isn't like we are trying to IMPROVE pokemon trainer. We are trying to separate them, the same way you do not have to use zero suit, the same way you do not have to use zelda. Why can't you understand that what Sakurai wanted does not matter, and that actually READING WHAT PEOPLE POST will show you that you're repeated arguments against this have already been shut down by people who use "facts" and intelligent arguments.

Honestly people, the denseness of your thought process is starting to give me an aneurysm.

Also stop referencing brawl +. Saying "if you don't like it, too bad," or "if you don't like it go play brawl plus," is absolutely childish and in general just a poor argument.

 

[Vermy]

Dude, calm down.
Srsly.
It'll eventually be addressed properly, but until then, deal with it.

Wow. Talk about overreacting.

 

[Ghetto Fabulous]

the reason why im upset is because it isn't being addressed properly now. theres no point in delaying this, its not like there is something we need to test out first, its just a simple decision

 

[T-block]

Anyways, at the same time, most of those people continually kept saying that if buffs pokemon trainer. I can only assume that these people are just plain unintelligent. There really can't be much more to it. If by buff they mean the character is better, then perhaps they can explain how squirtle getting cg by marth to his death each stock is easier to deal with than using the other two who do not get cg.

This is a pretty stupid argument. The "buff" still makes Squirtle a lot more viable in a lot of matchups. Don't use Squirtle for Marth then -_-

 

[Retro Gaming]

As I see it:

Taking away forced switch and stamina: Buffs PT.

Adding three new character slots for solo Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard and also leaving PT how he already works in the game: Does NOT buff PT.

 

[Brinzy]

So long as you also add in "Squirtle", "Ivysaur", and "Charizard" to stuff like tournament results... fair enough.

Though, let's be real, Ghetto Fabulous:

"We are trying to separate them, the same way you do not have to use zero suit, the same way you do not have to use zelda."

There are four different tier positions for those two characters, while Zelda/Sheik only come together for tournament rankings, because they are linked in a way that Samus isn't linked with her setup. The main thing I wanna focus on is the tier thing, because tournament rankings will either be extremely simple (use PT or stfu) or extremely complicated.

What exactly do you hope to gain from this, aside from the obvious choice to just use one Pokemon?

 

[Ghetto Fabulous]

As I see it:

Taking away forced switch and stamina: Buffs PT.

Adding three new character slots for solo Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard and also leaving PT how he already works in the game: Does NOT buff PT.

exactly, i am sorry that I have never been able to state my argument as eloquently as this, but this is what I have been trying to get at.

I understand that zss and zelda/sheik is not exactly the same, actually, the more I think about it the more I realize how bad of an example it is. I was just trying to point out that you do not need to use more than one character, you can just use sheik and no one says anything, same with zero suit. I know you have the ability to switch, but for those who do not want to, there is no difference between someone who just wants to play sheik and someone who just wants to play charizard.

and yeah, squirtle is the best out of the three, so naturally he will have better matchups in general. The point is there are situations where just using squirtle isn't the best option compared to using all three pokemon. Using just squirtle opens up counterpicks that previously did not exist. I wouldn't want to see these characters held back just because people think squirtle by himself is better in general than all three together.

 

[BSP]

Personally, even though I don't really use PT, i don't see a problem in the removal of forced switching and stamina.

 

[Ghetto Fabulous]

so long as you can't switch, I think everyone else would have an issue if you still could

 

[Sulfur]

I see no problem with this at all... It's just fixing a horrible horrible choice made by the developer. If mario, luigi, and bowser were all in this exact same situation people would be crying for it. However, it's a new character that very few people main, which makes others not care AT ALL.. :/

 

[BSP]

so long as you can't switch, I think everyone else would have an issue if you still could

yeah. make them truely solo.

 

[Tien2500]

exactly, i am sorry that I have never been able to state my argument as eloquently as this, but this is what I have been trying to get at.

I understand that zss and zelda/sheik is not exactly the same, actually, the more I think about it the more I realize how bad of an example it is. I was just trying to point out that you do not need to use more than one character, you can just use sheik and no one says anything, same with zero suit. I know you have the ability to switch, but for those who do not want to, there is no difference between someone who just wants to play sheik and someone who just wants to play charizard.

and yeah, squirtle is the best out of the three, so naturally he will have better matchups in general. The point is there are situations where just using squirtle isn't the best option compared to using all three pokemon. Using just squirtle opens up counterpicks that previously did not exist. I wouldn't want to see these characters held back just because people think squirtle by himself is better in general than all three together.

Ummmmm... Zero suit does not have the ability to switch. ZSS can't switch mid match to Samus in any way. (Assuming Smashballs are turned off). Samus can change midmatch to ZSS but the only method for doing so is difficult and hardly practical.

Anyway I'm wavering back and forth on this issue. I think I'm leaning slightly towards anti-hack now. You keep mention tripping but here is the difference. Tripping is something that we can all agree adds nothing to the game, and can change the outcome of a match by itself. Luck is a factor that we all agree is against the premise of competitive play. Essentially we hack out tripping (in some tournaments) for the same reason we ban items.

Forced fatigue/switching is not the same issue really. Its not fixing an obvious problem that goes against competitive play. Its not fixing an otherwise unplayable character. This isn't something we'd usually hack a game for anyway. Also the idea that Zelda/Sheik can transform freely and Trainer can't doesn't really hold up. We don't hack the game to make characters more fair. (Or at least I don't think we should). All you're doing is hacking the game to accomodate certain people who would rather play the game in a different way.

Would the game be better if trainer were split up? Maybe. It certainly wouldn't be worse. But should we for that reason begin changing the game because we think a change would make it better? I don't know about that.

 

[Ghetto Fabulous]

We would be hacking the game solely to give people more character selection options, I cannot see how this could be viewed as an unwanted idea.

I have mentioned sheik and zero suit because of the fact that the game does not FORCE you to use the alternatives that the character actually has hidden up their sleeve. One can be any of the four alternatives in these two characters without every using the others, and no one has an issue. But if someone wanted to use just one of the pokemon, they can't do that without hacking the game. It isn't fair to people who only want to use charizard, ivysaur, or squirtle when everyone else can use just one character. This isn't about buffing, fairness, winning tournaments, or tripping. I mention tripping only to support the idea of hacking being a positive thing in general. This issue only has to do with giving tournament goers more options.

and if tournament goers agree that a change would make the game better, why wouldn't we want to change it?

 

[Steeler]

i agree that this would not buff PT, it's hardly adding three new characters because they would be carbon copies of three characters already in the game (albeit together, with stamina, and a switch move, etc) but someone in my thread brought up an interesting thought.

how much of a benefit is it to a PT main in a counterpick setting to be able to CP just one of the pokemon? does it matter? for example, go PT in match 1, and if you lose match 1 or 2, CP a stage that benefits really benefits your best poke and pick its solo version. how much of a benefit is that? is it an unfair advantage?

my counter argument to that is that PT mains have already learned 3 characters. anyone else could learn three normal characters and then CP whichever one they feel is the best.

but the difference is that PTs get to use all three at once in the first match. it sort of balances all of their good and bad matchups (albeit slightly disadvantageous against the cast overall) and is a "safe" pick instead of going solo pokemon and risking marth for squirtle or snake for charizard, for example.

how much of a difference would that be? would it be unfair? is it not buffing PT, but buffing a PT player's options?

i don't think it really matters at all when you have so many characters better than PT or even any of the pokemon alone, but it's an interesting thought.

 

[Ghetto Fabulous]

Yeah, in theory you could do this, but it wouldn't make any difference. You wouldn't get enough time with each pokemon to gain any more information out of the match that you wouldn't already know from just understanding the matchup to begin with.

 

[Tien2500]

We would be hacking the game solely to give people more character selection options, I cannot see how this could be viewed as an unwanted idea.

I have mentioned sheik and zero suit because of the fact that the game does not FORCE you to use the alternatives that the character actually has hidden up their sleeve. One can be any of the four alternatives in these two characters without every using the others, and no one has an issue. But if someone wanted to use just one of the pokemon, they can't do that without hacking the game. It isn't fair to people who only want to use charizard, ivysaur, or squirtle when everyone else can use just one character. This isn't about buffing, fairness, winning tournaments, or tripping. I mention tripping only to support the idea of hacking being a positive thing in general. This issue only has to do with giving tournament goers more options.

and if tournament goers agree that a change would make the game better, why wouldn't we want to change it?

I don't get why you would mention Zero Suit at all. She's completely seperate. There is no synergy or switching between her and ZSS. They HAD to let you pick her as an individual character because otherwise you couldn't play her at all in an itemless match. And if you look at Zero suit the other way ZSS mains do not have access to another character as Pokemon Trainer mains.

What isn't fair about having the characters split up into three? The characters of smash were meant to be unique. Trainer is unique because he has three different characters who play together as a team. (Like in Pokemon) If someone chooses to play as Pokemon Trainer they choose to play as all three. If they don't want to do that then they can choose not to play as trainer.

Anyway since when did we alter the game (either by hacking or otherwise) to increase the number of options available to people? And if most tournament players think this is a good thing should we hack the game in other ways if most people agree its a good thing? Thats where the slippery slope argument comes in.

 

[Ghetto Fabulous]

OF COURSE WE SHOULD. If tournament players want to change the game to make it better, yes we should change it. The whole point of these hacks is to make tournament play better. Give me an argument for why we should not change something that most people agree should be changed. You keep referring to pokemon trainer as if people want to use all three characters. But a lot of people DO NOT want to use all three. This is the point of allowing them to be separated. If someone wants to just use charizard, why shouldn't they be allowed to? It doesn't hurt anything, no one is getting buffed, all you are doing is allowing someone to play the character they want to without having to change. We would still allow people to use all three pokemon together, we would just be creating three new character slots for the three of them. Your argument is founded on the idea that any change, even ones that people want, shouldn't happen.

And don't say that these three work together as a team, cause they don't. In marvel vs. capcom, characters work together as a team, one can combo into the other, hence working together.

AND I will continue to use ZSS as an example for the shear fact that you can use her on her own. You do not have to, you could start the match as samus and then switch. But no one cares if you just play as her, same as sheik, same as zelda. The point is, every character, including the ones with different forms, can play as one version only EXCEPT for pokemon trainer. No one cares that pokemon "the game" had the idea of subbing in other pokemon to win a battle. This is about making tournaments better, and thats it.

AND OBVIOUSLY if people choose to use pokemon trainer they choose to use all three, hence why we would keep that option. But why should they HAVE to use all three if they only want to use one of the them? Sheik and zelda users can only use one if they want, samus and zss users can only use one if they want, why should pokemon trainer be denied what everyone else in the game can do? Be ONE character.

 

[Steeler]

the counter to that is simply this:

that's how the game was made.

which is a pretty good argument until you get into the fact that we can hack the game. even then, it's a hassle for tournaments to have all wiis hacked...

which means it's quite fortunate that there is work being done to make it possible to simply insert the SD card with the hacks and make it playable, no homebrew or other hacks required. once that is possible, a new codeset focused on improving the game (such as removing controversial stuff like grab release exploits, jab/laser locks, changing stages to make more legal, etc) could come out and become the new tourney standard. it's possible.

 

[Tien2500]

OF COURSE WE SHOULD. If tournament players want to change the game to make it better, yes we should change it. The whole point of these hacks is to make tournament play better. Give me an argument for why we should not change something that most people agree should be changed. You keep referring to pokemon trainer as if people want to use all three characters. But a lot of people DO NOT want to use all three. This is the point of allowing them to be separated. If someone wants to just use charizard, why shouldn't they be allowed to? It doesn't hurt anything, no one is getting buffed, all you are doing is allowing someone to play the character they want to without having to change. We would still allow people to use all three pokemon together, we would just be creating three new character slots for the three of them. Your argument is founded on the idea that any change, even ones that people want, shouldn't happen.

And don't say that these three work together as a team, cause they don't. In marvel vs. capcom, characters work together as a team, one can combo into the other, hence working together.

AND I will continue to use ZSS as an example for the shear fact that you can use her on her own. You do not have to, you could start the match as samus and then switch. But no one cares if you just play as her, same as sheik, same as zelda. The point is, every character, including the ones with different forms, can play as one version only EXCEPT for pokemon trainer. No one cares that pokemon "the game" had the idea of subbing in other pokemon to win a battle. This is about making tournaments better, and thats it.

AND OBVIOUSLY if people choose to use pokemon trainer they choose to use all three, hence why we would keep that option. But why should they HAVE to use all three if they only want to use one of the them? Sheik and zelda users can only use one if they want, samus and zss users can only use one if they want, why should pokemon trainer be denied what everyone else in the game can do? Be ONE character.

Zero suit Samus is a flawed argument. It flat out doesn't make sense. If you are a ZSS main (which you should be because she's awesome) you have absolutely no way of switching to Samus even if you wanted to. And if you start as Samus you can't realistically change to ZSS. Have you tried to switch from Samus to ZSS in the middle of a match? Its not easy and its not feasible to consistently do it. Its also a one way street which is far different from PT. Its not an apt example no matter how many times you repeat it.

If this is about making the game better then you have the problem of who gets to decide what makes the game better. Is it just the "majority of Smash players"? (I don't know how you would find out the will of the majority but w/e.) What if the majority of the players felt the game would be better without MK? (Not too long ago this may have been the case). Should we ban him? If the majority of players think hacking the game to allow footstools to be teched should we do that too? What if people think the game would be better with wavedashing in it? (You don't have to look too hard to find people who share this opinion.)

Of course if you want to play a hacked version of Brawl then that's fine play however you like it. And if local tournaments want to put these or other hacks on that's fine too of course. People should play the game however they most enjoy it. But for anything large scale or national there needs to be some sort of standardized version. And what is more logical than using the original unhacked version of brawl as the standard.

 

[Ghetto Fabulous]

First of all, you can easily change from samus to zss in the middle of a match. You simply need to be good at mashing the d pad to get it to work. I can do it on command, so i dont see what the big deal is. And while it is a one way street, the fact remains that you CAN use both in one match. I do not care whether it is feasible or not, my argument rests on the fact that you CAN do it but don't have to.

And it is not a hassle for tournaments to have wii's hacked. In my experience and from what I have heard from people who go to more tournaments than I do, on average right now half the wiis that are used have hacked versions of brawl on them. That percentage is only going to go up, and again I bring up the idea to have a booth where people can bring their wiis to at a tournament and get them hacked for them. More and more people are leaning towards hacking their wiis simply because of the increasing number of features that one can add to brawl to make it more entertaining. We are now able to change the victory sounds and character costumes. Who knows what we will have a few months from now.

We are rapidly approaching a time when there are more wiis with homebrew on them at tournaments than without. There won't be a national standard for years, as that will depend on what else is discovered. Melee didn't even have a universal rule set when brawl came out, and that was after 7 years.

And if what you say is true, that we may be able to simply insert an SD card with the code and have it work, then we are even closer to establishing a standard. It really comes down to what tournament hosts want, but if we agree that soon enough there will be far more wii's hacked than not, then my argument becomes incredibly relevant as I have shown it is a change we should be considering.

 

[Tien2500]

Lol. Dude the situations are in no way similar. Technically you can play as both characters if you wanted but realitsitcally you can't. And you certainly can't switch between the two of them back and forth in a match. You can switch once at most and even then only if you start with one of the characters. Furthermore there is just about no situation where it would be an advantage to using both characters. When advantages does Samus gain from being able to switch? The only advantage is playing as a better character and that can be accomplished far more simply by simply picking Zero Suit Samus. You'eargument does not rest on the premise that you "can do it". Your argument rests on a big pile of stupid. "I don't care if it is feasible or not". Ummm... really? Do you know the meaning of the word feasible? You're basically saying "I don't care it it actually can or will happen in a real competitive smash match or not" which is obviously a ludicrous statement.

If you can't admit that the situation between Samus/ZSS is entirely different from that of Pokemon trainer I have to conclude that you are simply arguing for the sake of arguing, defending an obviously invalid point to save yourself from the terrible shame and humiliation that comes with acknowledging the fact that you may from time to time utter something which may be less than 100% correct. So cling valiantly to your ridiculous claim and you can continue to be secure in the knowledge that you are always infallibly correct and never face the horror of having to revisit an idea and reevaluating it. For in that way lies madness. Stay the path brother.

If anyone interested in intelligent discussion would like to address my last post (aside from the part about ZSS. I don't think that needs elaboration.) I would be interested in hearing your thoughts.

 

[Ghetto Fabulous]

So I am going to assume that you do not understand logic. In regards to sheik and zelda, samus and zero suit, and pokemon trainer's pokemon- I have never talked about whether it would be better for you to use any particular individual character out of all of these. I have simply pointed out the similarity between all three characters, that being that samus/zss, sheik/zelda, and ivysaur/charizard/squirtle can be split up into more than one character. You have caused me to assume that you are incapable of accepting that fact for whatever reason.

I also have not denied that the overall situation between these three character shells are different. Obviously samus and zss is different from that of pokemon trainer. You can only switch once with samus and zss, and you can switch indefinately with pokemon trainer.

You continually keep talking about what is realistically going to happen in a tournament with zss, and I will say again, I do not care. Most people in this thread have argued against splitting up pokemon trainer not because of feasibility, but because it would require changing the game's original design, and they are wary of that due to the "slippery slope" argument.

In the original design, samus and zss can be used together or independently as designed by sakurai. People who like these two characters have an option programmed into the game for them. Neither Squirtle, Charizard nor ivysaur can be used independently, hence their difference from samus and zss and hence my argument. I am suggesting that we give these three characters the ability that all other characters have, the ability to be one character an entire match. Samus/zss (ONE CHARACTER SPLIT INTO TWO AS PROGAMMED BY SAKURAI) can choose which one they want to use for an entire match and zelda/sheik (ONE CHARACTER SPLIT INTO TWO AS PROGRAMMED BY SAKURAI) can choose who they want to use for an entire match. Because they are allowed to do this, I think we should allow pokemon trainer (ONE CHARACTER SPLIT INTO THREE AS PROGRAMMED BY SAKURAI) to do the same.

My argument has nothing to do with what people would or would not do in a tournament, it has to do with what CAN be done, as I have stated over and over in my previous arguments. I approach it this way to deal with those who are against changing the games original design in hopes that they will see that pokemon trainer is denied an option that every other character in the game has. Hopefully I have made this clear, I would hate for you to have to bash me again due to your inability to understand my argument.

 

[typh]

I approach it this way to deal with those who are against changing the games original design in hopes that they will see that pokemon trainer is denied an option that every other character in the game has.

 

[Ghetto Fabulous]

why should i just deal with it? I am still waiting for a good argument against it

 

[typh]

man if dealwithit.gif doesn't convince you i don't know what will

 

[Beetle Juice]

Squirtle>rack up damage>dthrow offstage>switch toivysoar>goes for stock>switch to charizard>tanks

All in one stock rotation
Problem solved XD
Lol kidding keep arguing

 

[Ghetto Fabulous]

the whole point of this is to be only one pokemon the whole match...

 

[Vermy]

No, YOUR whole point is to b*tch and moan until the world agrees with you.

Not gunna happen.

Deal with it.

 

[Ghetto Fabulous]

I rarely make emotional posts, sometimes I have to over emphasize certain things as some people do not actually pay attention to what I post earlier and then make comments that either misinterpret what I say or leave out information. Yes I would like people to agree with me, which is why I have been posting on this thread different arguments for this idea. If someone can come up with a cogent, intelligent, thought out argument against having this hack in tournaments I will admit it, but no one has yet to do so. You can take this as b*tching and moaning if you want, just as I can take that comment as a reflection on yourself showing your inability to engage in intelligent debate and so forced to resort to childish statements just as "deal with it" and the plain, negative and uninformed statement "not gunna happen."

 

[T-block]

So apparently your idea of intelligent debate is repeatedly stating your points while dismissing every point made by the other side as unconvincing and unintelligent. We've given you plenty of strong points, and most of us will even admit that those points do have their flaws. But this argument is largely an ethical argument, so this is never going to get anywhere.

My only goal in posting in this topic was to show you what those people who are against these hacks are thinking. "Deal with it" is a piece of very good advice, because it's probably not going to happen. So let's stop this discussion now... it's getting nowhere now and has lived way longer than it should have. I'd hate to see drama develop on the PT boards because of something as stupid as this.

 

[DemonFart]

^^

man if dealwithit.gif doesn't convince you i don't know what will

This is also true, you need more Gifs, Typh. Now I'm just going to go back to lurking this topic.

*disappears*

 

[Ghetto Fabulous]

So apparently your idea of intelligent debate is repeatedly stating your points while dismissing every point made by the other side as unconvincing and unintelligent. We've given you plenty of strong points, and most of us will even admit that those points do have their flaws. But this argument is largely an ethical argument, so this is never going to get anywhere.

My only goal in posting in this topic was to show you what those people who are against these hacks are thinking. "Deal with it" is a piece of very good advice, because it's probably not going to happen. So let's stop this discussion now... it's getting nowhere now and has lived way longer than it should have. I'd hate to see drama develop on the PT boards because of something as stupid as this.

On what evidence can all of you say its probably not going to happen? I can say that is probably going to start happening because I know people who run tournaments, and word is this is a very real possibility. I do not know if you have heard about the east coast regional circuit or the Cataclysm series of tournaments, but I am one of the mages who has contributed to running these events and consequently know a large amount of people who run other tournaments. Maybe there is no talk of it where you all are, but my argument stems from what other people have told me.

Many of you have contributed arguments that have enormous flaws, not small ones, which is why I have been so adamant about my position. I have dismissed other points by providing lengthy counter arguments, and I state that someone might be unintelligent only in the event that they largely misinterpret what I say or do not actually read my entire post. Not to mention the fact that I have provided many different reasons for including this hack, not just one repeated over and over.

 

[Steeler]

this needs a squirtle squad version

 

[Zschalix]

I have a suggestion that was hinted about in the B+ PT thread... what if instead of the hacks previously proposed, the fatigue was left alone and instead of no forced switch, this hack was put into effect:

Hold shield on death to switch out of order.

AKA: squirtle dies, hold L, and out comes 'Zard. Pokemon trainer still is pokemon trainer and cannot play as one pokemon, but this new freedom bypasses ivysaur (being realistic) or, situationally, bypasses one of the other pokemon.

Perhaps if there is an objection to this idea as still corrupting the character, then the code could designate each pokemon a button; squirtle could be summoned via holding R during switch, Z would choose ivy, with L choosing Charizard. The code would create a memory that would forbid the same pokemon appearing twice in groups of three pokemon appearances, which is reset at every third death; with the count starting at the beginning of the match. The second death would bring out the third and unused pokemon (because the other two had "fainted.")

NOTE: i used death as an example of a switching situation, but any switch could/would be affected by coding.

Ex: Player starts as Charizard, elects to hold R to pick squirtle (maybe no button would be necessary, but i doubt it would be practical to create the code that way), then is forced into ivy, and then may hold a shoulder button to select next pokemon.

This first code is much less complicated and may already be in existence. Though it's not as true to the pokemon trainer idea..

The second code sounds incredibly complicated and tough to create out of thin air, but given that it mostly relies on existing functions in the game, and uses buttons for activation, i imagine it's possible.

Regardless, i feel that the freedom to choose which pokemon to switch to is a simple idea that would add some strategy to the PT metagame, and wouldn't rock the boat.

I am by no means a completely informed smash player, or halfway-legitimate hacker but i thought this was an idea worth tossing around.

 

[Ghetto Fabulous]

most of the people who have already responded to this thread would not like this idea as if buffs pokemon trainer outright.