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Pit Matchup Tid Bits
- Thread starter kown
- Start date
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Samus
We never will come towards you DIRECTLY. We will sit back and spam then SLOWLY come towards you. Your spam isnt as good as our but it FORCES us to come towards you cause thats what spam does. This puts you in the position to FIGHT us hand to hand, you can KO well. Samus cant. Samus has 2-3 kill moves(d-tilt/charge shot/dair) and the rest(f-smash/down smash) are used so much they wont kill early...EVER. So fear not when you come and attack samus up close.
Mirror shield isnt really that good on samus unless you are up close when we charge shot you.
When it come to stages. Ban FD and BF. CP jungle japes(we kill upwards and JJ will not allow you to die till like 170-180[assuming you DI]) or Frigate or brinstar.
We never will come towards you DIRECTLY. We will sit back and spam then SLOWLY come towards you. Your spam isnt as good as our but it FORCES us to come towards you cause thats what spam does. This puts you in the position to FIGHT us hand to hand, you can KO well. Samus cant. Samus has 2-3 kill moves(d-tilt/charge shot/dair) and the rest(f-smash/down smash) are used so much they wont kill early...EVER. So fear not when you come and attack samus up close.
Mirror shield isnt really that good on samus unless you are up close when we charge shot you.
When it come to stages. Ban FD and BF. CP jungle japes(we kill upwards and JJ will not allow you to die till like 170-180[assuming you DI]) or Frigate or brinstar.
teh_pwns_the
Smash Journeyman
against yoshi, you can aerial AR him while hes doing his long second jump, the first few frames will hit the flinch resistance but the rest of it will stop his ascent, and then since you have superior air mobility, you can recover and he cannot... dont AR too long or you will die too, watch out for the eggs while you are getting back up to the ledge, cause i fyou get hit out of your WoI, well we all know how that ends
Esca
Smash Champion
Thank you for that Jerm and Xyro. I appreciate your help.
Cha0tic NiGhTmArE
Smash Journeyman
yeah forreal. we need that
kown
Smash Lord
this will all be updated shortly...THANK YOU EVERYONE!!!!....pit boards can finally get back on track
Esca
Smash Champion
I'm gonna make a thread soon.
Zori
Smash Champion
use that blue wing ****, ****s up everything for olimar >_<
kown
Smash Lord
Kool Aid: give more than pit can glide toss nannas...cuz like everyone can... glidetoss > dsmash is a good idea tho...also could you give more info about what moves pit should grab nanas with and anything else that would be helpful...we currently lack info about the diddy matchup.
Esca
Smash Champion
I'm going to post alot more lately. Kown, you and I will talk later about this.
oathkeeper005
Smash Cadet
"I think WoI makes Ness's Pk Fire 'burst' and it won't hit you. Need to go retest this."
It does, when ness players spam it cause pit is on the edge I like to Plank with WoI so they never get close to the edge. Mostly just to mess with them.
"diddy: pit can glidetoss the nanas, there easy to pick up, and his glidetoss dsmash throws the diddy off most of the time"
I find that nair is amazingly useful for pickng up naners on platforms or that are thrown. not alot of real good diddy's leave naners laying around but it could be usefull to know.
I think Angle ring over a grounded naner makes it pits, but chances are that the diddy will pick it up.
It does, when ness players spam it cause pit is on the edge I like to Plank with WoI so they never get close to the edge. Mostly just to mess with them.
"diddy: pit can glidetoss the nanas, there easy to pick up, and his glidetoss dsmash throws the diddy off most of the time"
I find that nair is amazingly useful for pickng up naners on platforms or that are thrown. not alot of real good diddy's leave naners laying around but it could be usefull to know.
I think Angle ring over a grounded naner makes it pits, but chances are that the diddy will pick it up.
Afropony
Smash Lord
Instead of airdodging or dash attacking or running then stopping to pick up a banana you can wingdash over the banana.
shinyspoon42
Smash Journeyman
Wingdash over a banana to glidetoss to Dsmash. To wingdash over nanner again.
Cha0tic NiGhTmArE
Smash Journeyman
yeah we got that..although that is usefull, it's super vague and has been covered.when it comes to Diddy, there has to be a more in depth tid-bid to give other then that.
droughboi
Smash Journeyman
Against sonic, try a reverse pivot grab to catch him out of his spin dashes if u cant bair
Admiral Pit
Smash Hero
Though this is known already, Ike is such an easy target to gimp, and have many ways to do it.
1: Mirror Shield is a Pit's fav toy for gimping Ike's 2 recoveries. Against Up-B, just time it to turn him around to his death. Against Side-B, just pursue him, pull it out, let him hit the shield to keep him from getting to the stage.
2: Arrowing him after he jumps is basically guaranteed a sure kill, if he's far enough. Mirror Shield Ike's Up-B if he's close.
3: As I have done to Ikes in the past, maybe Pit's F-air can act like a minor WOP to gimp Ike. Ike's attacks are too slow for him to knock Pit away.
Ive done this in my october vid Starting after the B-throw at 1:48
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DT0zYASLwY&feature=channel_page
I do not know if Ike is capable of using Down-B or airdodge quick enough to avoid this. Airdodging seems reasonable, and for the 3rd one, it wont quite work at ur 0%s. Let Ike get to a small bit of damage maybe close to 30%. Also, the Ike jumps first before I pursue with F-airs to further limit him.
The same goes for Link, cept link is capable of escaping with a possible N-air to hit you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5x6vXNQPQ&feature=channel_page
As seen in my combo vid, at around 5:48, you can see Link using up his mid-air jump as I pursue him ith F-airs, then later on tries to escape with Up-B, but the Up-B does not show Link having any horizontal movement til after the move is done.
The one thing I want to view is if Pit can somehow block Link from using his tether recovery, and I mean you may have seen Link's tether fail sometimes to where it doesnt grab the ledge. Maybe if Pit was in front of the ledge, or holding a Mirror Shield, it might keep Link's Tether from grabbing the ledge even if he's in range. This is the only thing I may need to have clarified.
As for Luigi and Pika, their Side-Bs are related. Use arrows to stop em in their tracks. When they use the move to advance, an arrow really wont damage em, but will still stop em, so use that to help a bit.
Ivysaur is easy to gimp, hard to knock off at times, but easy. Get him far enough from the ledge, stop his jump with arrows, and edgehog, while at the same time being casual to avoid gettin stage-spiked by his Up-B. Watch out for some Ivys that use Side B before Up-B.
Well, im back at gathering information for the angels, really wouldnt want to leave some of u guys alone... or myself alone -_-
1: Mirror Shield is a Pit's fav toy for gimping Ike's 2 recoveries. Against Up-B, just time it to turn him around to his death. Against Side-B, just pursue him, pull it out, let him hit the shield to keep him from getting to the stage.
2: Arrowing him after he jumps is basically guaranteed a sure kill, if he's far enough. Mirror Shield Ike's Up-B if he's close.
3: As I have done to Ikes in the past, maybe Pit's F-air can act like a minor WOP to gimp Ike. Ike's attacks are too slow for him to knock Pit away.
Ive done this in my october vid Starting after the B-throw at 1:48
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DT0zYASLwY&feature=channel_page
I do not know if Ike is capable of using Down-B or airdodge quick enough to avoid this. Airdodging seems reasonable, and for the 3rd one, it wont quite work at ur 0%s. Let Ike get to a small bit of damage maybe close to 30%. Also, the Ike jumps first before I pursue with F-airs to further limit him.
The same goes for Link, cept link is capable of escaping with a possible N-air to hit you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5x6vXNQPQ&feature=channel_page
As seen in my combo vid, at around 5:48, you can see Link using up his mid-air jump as I pursue him ith F-airs, then later on tries to escape with Up-B, but the Up-B does not show Link having any horizontal movement til after the move is done.
The one thing I want to view is if Pit can somehow block Link from using his tether recovery, and I mean you may have seen Link's tether fail sometimes to where it doesnt grab the ledge. Maybe if Pit was in front of the ledge, or holding a Mirror Shield, it might keep Link's Tether from grabbing the ledge even if he's in range. This is the only thing I may need to have clarified.
As for Luigi and Pika, their Side-Bs are related. Use arrows to stop em in their tracks. When they use the move to advance, an arrow really wont damage em, but will still stop em, so use that to help a bit.
Ivysaur is easy to gimp, hard to knock off at times, but easy. Get him far enough from the ledge, stop his jump with arrows, and edgehog, while at the same time being casual to avoid gettin stage-spiked by his Up-B. Watch out for some Ivys that use Side B before Up-B.
Well, im back at gathering information for the angels, really wouldnt want to leave some of u guys alone... or myself alone -_-
Suyon
Smash Lord
It is not possible for Ike to Air Dodge or Counter that since counter takes longer to setup than Marth's. If he could counter that he wouldn't be gimped so easily.
You could also say it's easy to gimp ZSS as long as they can't Down B back to the stage. Correct me if I am wrong ZSS players.
Yeah not to mention Olimar players as well or just kill those pikmins. I'm not sure but is it possible to kill those pikmins when they're off stage with your arrows? Oh yeah you can also Mirror shield Olimar's forward b and will make the pikmin do damage to olimar. Not sure if side b works i don't remember.
You could also say it's easy to gimp ZSS as long as they can't Down B back to the stage. Correct me if I am wrong ZSS players.
Yeah not to mention Olimar players as well or just kill those pikmins. I'm not sure but is it possible to kill those pikmins when they're off stage with your arrows? Oh yeah you can also Mirror shield Olimar's forward b and will make the pikmin do damage to olimar. Not sure if side b works i don't remember.
kown
Smash Lord
keep posting...we still need more info on marth and diddy...more diddy tho.
ill update later tonight!
ill update later tonight!
droughboi
Smash Journeyman
Can someone look into fighting a GOOD samus? i fought one today and it seems her Short hop missles & zair are pretty dangerous. I know we have arrows but still, it can be somewhat difficult at mid range
Esca
Smash Champion
Drough, I play Xyro, the best one, regularly. She's pretty easy to beat.
You have to practice powershielding.
You have to practice powershielding.
droughboi
Smash Journeyman
i power shield alot. i had just never fought a good samus before. it was a first for me.
Byuusan
Smash Journeyman
I'll put some input for some samus matchup, i remember i fought a few good players using her.
don't Ledgecamp, you'll be beaten EASILY there.
Samus does have to approch but her range far exceed our own.
If possible, reflect all her missiles and shots, if not powershield it all.
She has bomb jumps, tether option and she can easily protect herself from incoming attacks, i personnaly think that if she in the upper corner of the stage, do not chase, it not worth it, arrow chase.
If she get a fully charged shot ready, spam the Mirror shield, both of the samus player i fought were so scared of it, they never fired it. Don't do it in a predictable way, use it really randomly. That takes practice to learn.
It possible to camp but her missiles/shot > our arrow in damage so don't get hit.
don't Ledgecamp, you'll be beaten EASILY there.
Samus does have to approch but her range far exceed our own.
If possible, reflect all her missiles and shots, if not powershield it all.
She has bomb jumps, tether option and she can easily protect herself from incoming attacks, i personnaly think that if she in the upper corner of the stage, do not chase, it not worth it, arrow chase.
If she get a fully charged shot ready, spam the Mirror shield, both of the samus player i fought were so scared of it, they never fired it. Don't do it in a predictable way, use it really randomly. That takes practice to learn.
It possible to camp but her missiles/shot > our arrow in damage so don't get hit.
With what? All she can do is attempt to spike you and thats easily avoidable.
droughboi
Smash Journeyman
all right. cool thanks. ill post some more diddy kong info up soon.
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
incorrect. D-tilt is disjointed and can stage spike u
Esca
Smash Champion
Drough, we have enough Diddy Kong information previously listed. You need to either put really advanced matchup help or another character totally, because "Glide toss his bananas" isn't good advice.
Edit: And R@vyn, he's right. Don't ledge-camp against a pro Samus. She can get to you alot easier.
Edit: And R@vyn, he's right. Don't ledge-camp against a pro Samus. She can get to you alot easier.
droughboi
Smash Journeyman
I like how you just assumed that I was going to say "glide toss his banannas"... -_- Nice. Only reason i said i would add more info on diddy is because kown said he wanted some earlier... lets not put words in my mouth before i even get to say something kay? =]
Esca
Smash Champion
This is why is said this, Drough. I didn't say this out of negativity, and I'm sorry if it came off that way. It's just that that's the average players help for the Diddy matchup, and it isn't always the answer.
I mained Diddy for 6 or 7 months, so I really don't know what Pit can do against him that really has a tide-turning match situation, but I do know that UN-sweetspotted bair cancels Diddy's up-b.
I'm sorry Drough, for any offense I may have caused.
droughboi
Smash Journeyman
no, its all good man no need to apologize. my friend plays diddy pretty well... freaking annoying at times cuz he doesnt stand still for even a second and theres almost no way to get in once he gets started. but what i try to do is not let him get a bananna in the first place. pressure him from the begining of the match. diddy is just a bad match up. idk what to do against him lol. crappy advice i know but... sheesh... it's hard.
Avoiding it is no harder than avoiding a bair stage spike from most characters and even then her Dtilt is easier to see coming than that. I'd assume that once the player knows how far the disjoint is then i should be too problematic to avoid.
Byuusan
Smash Journeyman
well from what i experianced, Ledge camping a samus that know what they're doing is extremely difficult.
homing Missiles will chase, Zair will get you from enough range, as previous said, Dtilt has disjointed attacks, any arrows might get shielded or hit a missile or maybe even a charged shot.
I tried to max out the farthest out jump possible and that Samus still beat me when i was ledgecamping with ease. From what we can do from the ledge, unless you have another attack that has the range of an arrow, it won't win.
homing Missiles will chase, Zair will get you from enough range, as previous said, Dtilt has disjointed attacks, any arrows might get shielded or hit a missile or maybe even a charged shot.
I tried to max out the farthest out jump possible and that Samus still beat me when i was ledgecamping with ease. From what we can do from the ledge, unless you have another attack that has the range of an arrow, it won't win.
droughboi
Smash Journeyman
Exactly what happend to me when i fought this samus player the other day. I couldnt get close enough to attack all my arrows were being blocked by missiles or the charge shot.
Suyon
Smash Lord
Olimar
A normal jab can knock out his pikmin pikmin but not multiple.
Also if you go to Delfino or Japes water will kill his pikmin as well
Don't forward be since if you miss you will get heavily punished
Also his Nair to Usmash is almost an automatic combo if buffered so avoid that.
Don't get grabbed at 0% you'll get a lot of damage within 5 seconds
Also ban Luigi's Mansion...I really got punished there because it's mansion...and i had no olimar matchup experience....
And some info for pits that don't know the usage for Olimar's pikmin
White is for forward B which does the most damage out of the rest.
Blue is for grabs and can KO you the best as well.
Purple is for smashes and you can't kill him with your moves. And if he hits you with forward b you get knocked back.
Red is for aerials and Fsmash
Yellow is for aerials as well and used for usmash as well.
Sonic
Don't use arrows. Spindash > arrow
Don't even edgeguard with arrows againts him go out of stage and challenge him.
SH Nair will work against his spindash. Even the A Jab Infinite.
A normal jab can knock out his pikmin pikmin but not multiple.
Also if you go to Delfino or Japes water will kill his pikmin as well
Don't forward be since if you miss you will get heavily punished
Also his Nair to Usmash is almost an automatic combo if buffered so avoid that.
Don't get grabbed at 0% you'll get a lot of damage within 5 seconds
Also ban Luigi's Mansion...I really got punished there because it's mansion...and i had no olimar matchup experience....
And some info for pits that don't know the usage for Olimar's pikmin
White is for forward B which does the most damage out of the rest.
Blue is for grabs and can KO you the best as well.
Purple is for smashes and you can't kill him with your moves. And if he hits you with forward b you get knocked back.
Red is for aerials and Fsmash
Yellow is for aerials as well and used for usmash as well.
Sonic
Don't use arrows. Spindash > arrow
Don't even edgeguard with arrows againts him go out of stage and challenge him.
SH Nair will work against his spindash. Even the A Jab Infinite.
kown
Smash Lord
ty...ill update soon.
Katana_koden
Smash Ace
Luigi: fair is strong against him and keep it up as a defensive strategy and approach. When he is air born watch his direction he is facing. Nair is grab punishable, bair is not grab punishable but give him a nice dsmash. Keep ranged WOI helps if skilled in the close combat. His recovering tornado is usually always punishable even after its finished fair/bair works good. Luigi might have up B stage lag if he grabs the ledge with it. Punish if next time he lands from the air to the stage. Arrow his side be to kill his horizontal recovery.
Hope that was accurate and helpful.
Hope that was accurate and helpful.
Admiral Pit
Smash Hero
I've fought Terios a lot in Pit vs Sonic friendlies, and quite the bit of em too.
Now, the key to this matchup is pitting (no pun intended) your Mindgames vs the Sonic's, as well as predicting his moments. Simply put it as "Mindgames and Prediction is the key."
Now, if you are a Pit that uses arrows a lot, you better stop here. Sonic's speed will easily put u in a good position of getting hit. Spindash can stop arrows, should u not miss him. You should only use arrows once you get Sonic off stage.
Keep in mind that both characters have just about the same range with different priotiries, so Pit shouldn't have much of a hard time approaching him.
Use SH-N-airs or the Jab infinte that can work against his Spindash. The lingering hitbox Pit's B-air will also work. Try spacing with that if needed. This can pretty much help since Sonic pretty much has to approach, but be careful since he has many different approaches and follow ups.
This is where prediction comes to play. Study the Sonic opponent, when he approaches with his spin dashes, try countering in the appropriate way as soon as he passes towards you. If he jumps in the air during a spindash, you might be able to put in a U-air behind you.
Once Sonic is off stage, use a few arrows if you wish, but sometimes, it is better just to pursue him. If Sonic does his midair jump before Side-B, then he can't jump til he lands on the ground. You can choose to Mirror Shield him to mess him up, or go at him head on with an Angel Ring for a bit more damage.
When really below the stage, most Sonics may do Up-B to an attack, preferred F-air, some rather airdodge. Predict once again, and counter him, but be careful since Sonic has a bit of invincibility frames on that Up-B. Keep your distance, and attack when you see the time come.
When u get off stage, some Sonics approach to attack. As always, avoid getting gimped by the spring if u r using ur Up-B. Try coming up the stage from a low elevation, then come up. During ledgecamping, Sonic might approach you with a B-air stage spike.
Try predicting the Sonic, but don't think it'll be easy. You should get used to it and will be more familiar with the matchup as you face different Sonics with different Mindgames.
Your main moves should be SH N-airs, B-air spacing, and F-air spacing. Use the Infinite Jab to stop Sonic from his ground approaches. Sometimes it will cancel Sonic's Spindashes, and sometimes it would outprioritize Sonic's Spindashes.
Hint: You might be able to Piviot grab a Sonic at times when he's approaching quickly. It can stop a spindash at its tracks when you time it right.
The matchup will turn out to 50/50 even. Also, Don't become frustrated and approach Sonic all the time, for that will get u in some trouble. Stay calm and wait for him to approach, and strike when ready. Also keep in mind that you still got a projectile to hit him at long range. Remember not to use too many arrows or you'll get spindashed, dash attacked, or grabbed.
Another thing. If Sonic uses B (the homing attack), Shield it (not Mirror Shield it), and Sonic should end up above you if he hits you, along with that move having a lot of lag after its impact, then hit him.
This is only a small part of a new project that I'll be working on.
Sonic Sez: "You're too slow!"
But show them that they're not ready yet
EDIT: Couldnt resist putting that on, propaganda attempt. No offense, Sonic Mains.
Now, the key to this matchup is pitting (no pun intended) your Mindgames vs the Sonic's, as well as predicting his moments. Simply put it as "Mindgames and Prediction is the key."
Now, if you are a Pit that uses arrows a lot, you better stop here. Sonic's speed will easily put u in a good position of getting hit. Spindash can stop arrows, should u not miss him. You should only use arrows once you get Sonic off stage.
Keep in mind that both characters have just about the same range with different priotiries, so Pit shouldn't have much of a hard time approaching him.
Use SH-N-airs or the Jab infinte that can work against his Spindash. The lingering hitbox Pit's B-air will also work. Try spacing with that if needed. This can pretty much help since Sonic pretty much has to approach, but be careful since he has many different approaches and follow ups.
This is where prediction comes to play. Study the Sonic opponent, when he approaches with his spin dashes, try countering in the appropriate way as soon as he passes towards you. If he jumps in the air during a spindash, you might be able to put in a U-air behind you.
Once Sonic is off stage, use a few arrows if you wish, but sometimes, it is better just to pursue him. If Sonic does his midair jump before Side-B, then he can't jump til he lands on the ground. You can choose to Mirror Shield him to mess him up, or go at him head on with an Angel Ring for a bit more damage.
When really below the stage, most Sonics may do Up-B to an attack, preferred F-air, some rather airdodge. Predict once again, and counter him, but be careful since Sonic has a bit of invincibility frames on that Up-B. Keep your distance, and attack when you see the time come.
When u get off stage, some Sonics approach to attack. As always, avoid getting gimped by the spring if u r using ur Up-B. Try coming up the stage from a low elevation, then come up. During ledgecamping, Sonic might approach you with a B-air stage spike.
Try predicting the Sonic, but don't think it'll be easy. You should get used to it and will be more familiar with the matchup as you face different Sonics with different Mindgames.
Your main moves should be SH N-airs, B-air spacing, and F-air spacing. Use the Infinite Jab to stop Sonic from his ground approaches. Sometimes it will cancel Sonic's Spindashes, and sometimes it would outprioritize Sonic's Spindashes.
Hint: You might be able to Piviot grab a Sonic at times when he's approaching quickly. It can stop a spindash at its tracks when you time it right.
The matchup will turn out to 50/50 even. Also, Don't become frustrated and approach Sonic all the time, for that will get u in some trouble. Stay calm and wait for him to approach, and strike when ready. Also keep in mind that you still got a projectile to hit him at long range. Remember not to use too many arrows or you'll get spindashed, dash attacked, or grabbed.
Another thing. If Sonic uses B (the homing attack), Shield it (not Mirror Shield it), and Sonic should end up above you if he hits you, along with that move having a lot of lag after its impact, then hit him.
This is only a small part of a new project that I'll be working on.
Sonic Sez: "You're too slow!"
But show them that they're not ready yet
EDIT: Couldnt resist putting that on, propaganda attempt. No offense, Sonic Mains.
Afro Boy2000
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2007
- Messages
- 207
Agaisnt Metaknight:
When it looks like Metaknight will do a dash grab or dash attack, spotdodge facing away from him. You can punish both moves much sooner because he'll usually end up infront of you (if you faced away from him).
Against anyone:
Doing n-air so that the last hit touches the ground and is autocancelled and then doing u-tilt right after is unsheildgrabbable. It also punishes people who try to shield grab this setup.
When it looks like Metaknight will do a dash grab or dash attack, spotdodge facing away from him. You can punish both moves much sooner because he'll usually end up infront of you (if you faced away from him).
Against anyone:
Doing n-air so that the last hit touches the ground and is autocancelled and then doing u-tilt right after is unsheildgrabbable. It also punishes people who try to shield grab this setup.