Pit is S Tier

[Doctor X]

NA play will always trump Japanese play for one reason-- we play for money. They don't. Without that competitive edge they lag behind.

 

[PassWurD]

seems to me, in order to be a "good" Pit player you have to turtle, run away, grab the edge xThousand times, never approach ur oppenent until there at enough percent that any tilt A can kill them.

Welcome to Brawl.

 

[Arzengel]

For those who have played a japanese version, isn't Pit's voice sexier and more action packed?
maybe thats why he ranks so high.

 

[MrEh]

For those who have played a japanese version, isn't Pit's voice sexier and more action packed?
maybe thats why he ranks so high.

Pit's voice is higher pitched in the Japanese version, Much higher pitched.

"AYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYYAYAYAH!!!!!"

 

[DominusHaven]

I saw a Japanese Pit named Earth in a recent Japanese vid that I got from ssbbmania1.

His name was Earth, He was pretty good, but I've seen Pit's just as good and much better in the U.S.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4xkpj3mS28

 

[Arzengel]

aa Cmon its sexier, admit it. xD

 

[KY_Des]

Did anyone stop to think that maybe NA's metagame is further advanced than Japan's? Early off in brawl, NA thought Pit was really good too. Then our metagame advanced.

Brawl isn't a Japanese 2D fighter, we can actually be ahead of them in this game.

 

[teh_pwns_the]

oh wow ky, its been a while since your last post, but i never really thought of that
could they really be that behind though?
i mean pit was known to no longer be top tier within the first 6 months or so

i guess japan is a lot smaller then america but i dont think that that can be the only factor

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

I know this is really old, but a lot of our good threads are lost and need revival. Why is Pit ranked so high in Japan? What are the doing that makes them place so well? Are we really better than their Pits? From the looks of their top Pit mains(Masashi & Earth) we are horribly behind IMO.

 

[pitskeyblade]

I'm glad that someone realizes just how TOTALLY AWESOME Pit is. Though to say that he's an S tier may be a bit of a stretch, he's better than the C rank we say he is. I kinda like going to tourneys and being underestimated because of the rank my character is in. It gives me an edge.

 

[CaptainPlatypus]

It's only because the play styles and character selections are different in Japan. His tier placement is right for Japan, and I think it's fine over here, too. Maybe he should be one or two spots higher in our tier list, but he is definitely close to his correct spot, if not already in it.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

It's only because the play styles and character selections are different in Japan. His tier placement is right for Japan, and I think it's fine over here, too. Maybe he should be one or two spots higher in our tier list, but he is definitely close to his correct spot, if not already in it.

I disagree. A LOT of people and Pit mains including me are really ignorant of Pit's capabilities. I have not seen any American Pit player come close to Masashi or Earth's level of play. The only exception would be Danny, but he has retired. No one in the USA uses Pit effectively enough to show what Pit can do. If you watched the Japanese's top Pit players, their mix-ups and arrow spam is far above most of our knowledge. Their spacing and ledge game is also a lot better than any of our top Pit players.

 

[Bartolon]

Ayoub is a top pit player guys, remember the name.

 

[CaptainPlatypus]

I disagree. A LOT of people and Pit mains including me are really ignorant of Pit's capabilities. I have not seen any American Pit player come close to Masashi or Earth's level of play. The only exception would be Danny, but he has retired. No one in the USA uses Pit effectively enough to show what Pit can do. If you watched the Japanese's top Pit players, their mix-ups and arrow spam is far above most of our knowledge. Their spacing and ledge game is also a lot better than any of our top Pit players.

Again, you can't truly compare Japanese players to the ones over here. The matches are so much different.

It's the same as most other characters below the Top tier, everyone is just so biased and believes their character is better than it is.

 

[CorruptFate]

It's only because the play styles and character selections are different in Japan. His tier placement is right for Japan, and I think it's fine over here, too. Maybe he should be one or two spots higher in our tier list, but he is definitely close to his correct spot, if not already in it.

I would have to say that the play style isn't as differen't as you might think, i am unable to find the link right now (though I had it saved guess not) but an american player went to JPN (for school I think) and had a thread on this site talking about what the smash community was like. He said that the despite what most people will say the play style is the same save a few small changes. The rules are close enough to the same with no real major differences that would cause some sort of leap in the tier list, and there isn't any sort of strict unwriten rules that they play by like many US players think they have.

Edit: the thread that I am talking about is the same as the OP. If you read a few paragraphs down Kel states that the tatics of Japan's
players are close enough to our own to be called identical. However this list is very old and things could have greatly changed to how they are now.

 

[Katana_koden]

Pit also places high because his potential. His sdi ability is very high, as well as semi medium character.
If you are able to escape most juggles in the game, you must be good right?
I tested this theory of meta's tornado and how masashi usually gets out. Well for us, tornado is a mindgame. When we are hit, we are bounced to the top. We can jump and evade or fast fall and evade. Meta has to decide if he rise or stay low to hit us again.

 

[Player 7]

Corrupt take over!

 

[Coffee™]

I disagree. A LOT of people and Pit mains including me are really ignorant of Pit's capabilities. I have not seen any American Pit player come close to Masashi or Earth's level of play. The only exception would be Danny, but he has retired. No one in the USA uses Pit effectively enough to show what Pit can do. If you watched the Japanese's top Pit players, their mix-ups and arrow spam is far above most of our knowledge. Their spacing and ledge game is also a lot better than any of our top Pit players.

Masashi is good. Earth is just ok. Neither of them are on any level that far surpasses the good Pit players here. It's just a matter of playstyle differences and the fact that every person that is showcased playing Masashi or Earth don't know what they're doing against Pit except Souther.

Pit also places high because his potential.

Pit doesn't place high in Japan. Masashi does. That's really about it. It's kind of similar to how Ally places well here but other Snakes don't do nearly as well. It has a lot more to do with the player and not the character.

 

[dualseeker]

I also think Pit should place higher. But I doubt people here will actually let him be in the S tier.

What Ravyn says at the end also brings another question to my mind. How are characters ranked on the Tier List? Is it by the best player who plays the character, or the characters overall stats? I haven't really found the answer, does any one know?

And I also agree that the Japanese play style doesn't seem that much different from ours. So, I wonder why we think Pit isn't high quality. He has great potential, and isn't an easy character to contend with. He also has great aerial game, something that most characters don't have. And one of the most controllable projectiles in the game, considering that we can control what direction the Arrows move in.

Does anyone have an answer as to why Japan puts Pit so high in the Tier List?

 

[CorruptFate]

I also think Pit should place higher. But I doubt people here will actually let him be in the S tier.

What Ravyn says at the end also brings another question to my mind. How are characters ranked on the Tier List? Is it by the best player who plays the character, or the characters overall stats? I haven't really found the answer, does any one know?

And I also agree that the Japanese play style doesn't seem that much different from ours. So, I wonder why we think Pit isn't high quality. He has great potential, and isn't an easy character to contend with. He also has great aerial game, something that most characters don't have. And one of the most controllable projectiles in the game, considering that we can control what direction the Arrows move in.

Does anyone have an answer as to why Japan puts Pit so high in the Tier List?

Tier lists are subject to problems, clearly there isn't a perfect formula for what would make an accurate list. So several things are taking into account: placing in major events such as whobo; smaller events such as the tounies that I used to host or something like monthly events in any given area (data from both the major and local tournies can be found in here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165954); char match ups such as the ones each board comes up with, and the handy chat listed here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=226315); but if an under represented char or under represented by the stronger players is picked up by a stronger play that can also tip the tier list, an example of this would be back in the melee days when the IC's chain grab was known about but they were low on the tier list until chudat picked them up and started to win major events, causing the IC's placment to skyrocket.

In the end Im not part of the SBroom or players that make the list so this could all just be the ramblings of a crazed mad man.

 

[dualseeker]

Thanks so much for the links Corrupt ^__^! Too bad Pit is in the D tier . Well, hopefully his placement will increase. And thanks for the MU thread as well.

And thanks for the explanation, it makes a lot of sense, so I'm sure your right about it. Do you think it's the same way in Japan?

 

[CorruptFate]

I would assume yes or at least close to it, there isn't really another way to make the tier list that I can think of. And brawl isn't the first fighting game to have a tier list a sort of standard for making a tier list has been created that is used as the archetype when creating one for any fighting game and small modifications are made to fit what ever game you are talking about, in this case it could be stage where in many others the stage you pick can be little more then the background.

 

[dualseeker]

I guess you're right. But I still wonder why ours is so different than Japan's. Maybe they just view things differently from us. Or do you think it's because of the top players over there winning so many tournaments?

 

[CorruptFate]

I would guess that it is because one of JPN's better players is playing/winning as Pit. I would like to see a more updated list if we wanted to really see what was going on, he could have dropped a lot after all that list is very old after all. But from the small amount of vids I have seen and that the rules in JPN arn't as different from our own as many people might think, I would have to say its the same situation as what I said with Chudat and the IC's back in melee.

Right now its not so much as Pit needs X to get better or people just don't know enough about what Pit can do yet (we have had plenty of time, this is the reason for not just the Pit boards but all of the char boards slowing down). Its that most top players arn't interested in Pit for one reason or another, or that the players (myself included) just don't have the same level of skill as some of the best players in the game. Thats not to say that there is no char vs char advantages in the game, it just says that player X beats player Y, even when player X isn't using his main.

What I would say needs to be done (and I think that R@vyn said this same thing a few times, way back when) would be to get Pit players to not focus so much on their skill with Pit, but their skill at the game in general. From what I remember R@vyn saying back when the last tier list was made (I would trust his word on this more then my own he has seen the SBR and knows a bit more of what goes into all of this) is that the reason Pit was put higher then many expected was because the SBR saw what he could do in the hands of a capable player.

Again quickly back to the Chudat thing before this turns into some sort of bigger ramble then it already is. I remember one of Youko's pod casts were he had talked to Chu about how Chu would train for brawl, Chu told him that part of his training was to memorize every char's frame data. I'm not saying go out and do that, but that is the level of commitment the best players have. Or it was just exaggerated and I missed it =P.

 

[EKO_Fury]

Tiers are made by what the best players main. If m2k's best character would have been lucas, that would be our tier s guy. People think the best players use characters cuz those characters r good when in reality, it's the opposite. charactrs r ranked high because the people that use them r good

 

[Damien = God]

Tiers are made by what the best players main. If m2k's best character would have been lucas, that would be our tier s guy. People think the best players use characters cuz those characters r good when in reality, it's the opposite. charactrs r ranked high because the people that use them r good

No. This is only a portion of it. M2K using Lucas wouldn't immediately guarantee him a place is S-tier. I suspect he'd get moved up, sure; maybe even significantly so, but not that high. To say so, is nonsense. There are obvious reasons Lucas can't get that high, and obvious reasons Meta Knight can.

 

[dualseeker]

What I would say needs to be done (and I think that R@vyn said this same thing a few times, way back when) would be to get Pit players to not focus so much on their skill with Pit, but their skill at the game in general. From what I remember R@vyn saying back when the last tier list was made (I would trust his word on this more then my own he has seen the SBR and knows a bit more of what goes into all of this) is that the reason Pit was put higher then many expected was because the SBR saw what he could do in the hands of a capable player.

Thanks for your thoughts on this Corrupt ^__^.

I agree immensely with what you and R@vyn say here. It's true that knowing how to play your character well will help you increase your skill. But knowing how to play the actuall game well will hellp immensely. I think that's what's really important in improving your game. I didn't know R@vyn was part of the SBR, though.

If the reason why Pit was put higher in the tier list because someone showed what he could do in the hands of a good player, then does that mean that not a lot of top players main Pit?

 

[CorruptFate]

The best way I could answer that would be to show you this thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=262480 The first Pit you will find is Kool Aid at 59 (gratz kool Aid) and the next Pit is Suyon at 156.

Edit: forgot to say that this only counts US and Canada events so well it doesn't show every player that would be in the top X, it does give you a basic understanding of what is going on and a list that would also count Europe would have several players on this list the basic idea behind it still stands.

 

[CHOMPY]

The Official SWF Brawl Ranking list is based off on how good the player is, and not so much as how good the character is naturally. The best player could win tournaments with the worst character and the worst player could never win a tournament with the best character like Metaknight. Pit is just one of those characters you have to put a lot of thought to and focus strictly on Pit if you wanna be a good Pit player.

 

[Suyon]

I find it silly that I'm on that list. I feel like I shouldn't be on that list but I don't know how other Pit players play or do

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

I find it silly that I'm on that list. I feel like I shouldn't be on that list but I don't know how other Pit players play or do

Don't be sad, be glad! Only 1 other Pit player has accomplished what you have. Be proud of yourself man, lol. You have a good style though, your Pit is pretty solid and has a better ground game than most. You also play A LOT more patient than other Pits I've played.

 

[Allbrex]

I love Pit to death but I think that his position is just too high. He can't be better than Marth, Dedede or Wario. I think he can be better than Diddy and ROB though. I acctually find them over rated.

He goes even with Marth depending on the map - I can explain if you want, I think he's better than Dedede too, Wario though is a tougher matchup for him. Pit is definitely underrated I can tell you that much.

 

[guitarnerd]

maybe they simply know some crap we havent found that puts him waaay up there, or they're just bs-ing, or they have some creepy pit fetish.

I'm going to go with the fetish.

 

[Undrdog]

My guess it's partially due to the fact that Diddy is just as popular as MK in Japan and the Diddy players keep MK in check. Less MK whoring means better Pits. Add in the fact that Masashi is a freaking beast and there ya have it.

 

[Tetsion]

My guess it's partially due to the fact that Diddy is just as popular as MK in Japan and the Diddy players keep MK in check. Less MK whoring means better Pits. Add in the fact that Masashi is a freaking beast and there ya have it.

Oh that's a good thing to know. Not only that they only have 3 stage choices, those being Final Destination, Smashville, and battlefield. ((supposedly))

Pit does pretty good against diddy imo. No joke, I know that match up so well.

LoL it was funny I went to a tournament fought a Diddy player..(friendlies) and I won every match he went falcon and I lost. D: I fail.. but eventually I learned the falcon match up so... I started doing better and winning again. He was good xD at least imo.

 

[Afro Boy2000]

Pit is top tier when played perfectly... Meaning no stupid mistakes, truefacts people

 

[Ayoub]

^ Then every char is top tier.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Masashi recently won a tournament in Japan. He had to play 3 sets against a Meta Knight player named Kobayashi. All sets were recoded as well as Pit dittos against Earth (they can be found here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=7330757#post7330757).

vs Kobayashi (Meta Knight) - 8/24/10
vs Kobayashi (Meta Knight) - 8/24/10

vs Kobayashi (Meta Knight) - 8/24/10
vs Kobayashi (Meta Knight) - 8/24/10

vs Kobayashi (Meta Knight) - 8/24/10
vs Kobayashi (Meta Knight) - 8/24/10

Edit: I *think* the results are:

1st Masashi (Pit)
2nd Kobayashi (Meta Knight)
3rd Souther (Snake)

The tourney had ~64 entrants

 

[dskank]

i wanna know what their doing to make pit so **** thats all i wanna know

shut up beefy no one loves u..

but boofa does. u know boffa right?

 

[Afro Boy2000]

^ Then every char is top tier.

No, Pit is better than a lot of characters when played right.