Pit General Match-Up Thread

[TimeMuffinPhD]

I wouldn't know much about that match up, but in theory wouldn't arrow spam be the best approach? (even though you don't have to approach :D! ... Anybody?) Most of pits attacks are faster if Yoshi runs in and if Yoshi side b's, most if not all of our sword attacks should go through if timed correctly because of the disjoint. For edgeguarding, intercepting him by air may be a little risky because of that double jump, but if you get that well placed fair the reward is HUGE. Those are my thoughts.

But in terms of match I feel like it's heavily in pit's favor.

Pretty what I've figured out so far, but at least I have someone that agrees with what I'm thinking. Thanks

 

[MudkipUniverse]

we need to either bump this thread or create a whole new one.

This is the first 3.6 post in it.

 

[AuraMaudeGone]

Pit boards seem dead. You could ask a mod to pin it and try to get people to post more. Or make a new thread. This one is ancient.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

Pit boards seem dead. You could ask a mod to pin it and try to get people to post more. Or make a new thread. This one is ancient.

I just posted a theorycrafting thread. Doesn't solve the problem of not having an active matchup thread, but I want these boards to not be dead

 

[Sharkz]

Anyone else here going to smashcon? Would love some Pit dittos.

 

[meebius]

How does Pit handle spacies? I've resorted to tech chasing with down throw and gimping with arrows when they're off stage.

 

[Life]

Uthrow works really well if they DI for dthrow. I think back air is probably more reliable than arrows for edgeguarding spacies at this time. Maybe if you're really good with arrows? They also stand a decent shot (haha puns haha) at knocking them out of sideB range if they try that.

Remember that arrows have a blind spot directly below the edge. If a space animal goes there, you're gonna want to grab edge instead of standing there trying to fire around a corner.

-

I'm curious about the Mewtwo matchup. I don't have any in my local scene, but I suspect it's pretty awful because Pit relies on setting up positional advantages over and over, and Teleport kind of ruins that. Was wondering if the rest of you had any insight in case I have to fight the character.

 

[~Frozen~]

Quite the opposite in my opinion.

• Combos floaties with ease, and arrows can keep Mewtwo from Teleporting out of juggles
• Has a grounded meteor Dtilt to win those CC wars and deter Mewtwo from using one of his staple combo moves
• Has a great recovery that slightly mitigates Mewtwo's edgeguarding prowess
• Strong vertical kill power with Usmash and UpB, allowing Pit to kill Mewtwo pretty reliably.
  
• Is of a fall speed where Mewtwo can neither tech chase with Dthrow, nor combo with Uthrow
• Speaking of Uthrow, Pit doesn't die TOO early to it. Usually need about 110-115% pregrab (+2 pummels)

All that said, Pit dies pretty early to things like Fair/Usmash, and if Mewtwo can catch him without a glide, he's pretty easy to juggle/keep offstage. It's still one of my more difficult MU's as Mewtwo. I wanna say it's +1 Pit favor, Gallo really likes this MU and prefers Pit for most floaties over Mario.

By the way, glide crossups on Mewtwo's shield are great, as Mewtwo's Bair OoS is generally too slow to punish him. Usmash might hit, but that can be mitigated if you're prepared to SDI it.

 

[Life]

I actually didn't know Gallo still played Pit. Thanks!

 

[AuraMaudeGone]

How do you guys feel about his spread atm in the Community MU Chart?
Also, what do you guys think about the empty MU's so far?

 

[Life]

How do you guys feel about his spread atm in the Community MU Chart?
Also, what do you guys think about the empty MU's so far?

Well for starters, we just established that Frozen (who I am inclined to trust on the matter) thinks Pit wins against Mewtwo by +1 while the chart says Pit loses by -1.

I also seriously doubt Pit loses the GnW matchup, though our best GnW is out of commission and probably also out of practice right now.

EDIT: Okay, who put Marth -3 GnW on that chart? I can't take it seriously now.

 

[AuraMaudeGone]

Well for starters, we just established that Frozen (who I am inclined to trust on the matter) thinks Pit wins against Mewtwo by +1 while the chart says Pit loses by -1.

I also seriously doubt Pit loses the GnW matchup, though our best GnW is out of commission and probably also out of practice right now.

EDIT: Okay, who put Marth -3 GnW on that chart? I can't take it seriously now.

Probably a Marth player. I haven't had a Pit submit a spread yet.
Edit: That was my oopsie

 

[Life]

Yo, so I played against ICs for the first time in a really long time.

Turns out if you dthrow synced Climbers, the one you're not throwing can grab you as soon as you're done with the throw animation, which means dthrow won't do a lot of good in that situation. Consider uthrow instead, or fthrow if they have some percent.

That said, if they can grab, they could also probably just jab or dsmash or whatever, so maybe we shouldn't be throwing if we don't have to? But then what do we do to their shield?

 

[Player -0]

>escape to top platform
>see the adorable Eskimos sharking from below
>get juggled
>try not to cry
>cry a lot.

F Throw is the best for not getting punished after afaik because of the Hitbox while in the F Throw animation.

Have to bait shieldgrabs with spaced (out of grab range) tomahawks/Fair mixup. Read WD OoS if possible (D Tilt).

 

[Taytertot]

id assume that pit vs mewtwo can be a projectile game if pit chooses because pit has more ways of dealing with mewtwo's shadow ball then mewtwo has for dealing with pit's arrows and pit has better mobility overall. Pit can just fire arrows over and over because if mewtwo tries to start reflecting them then pit can bend the next arrow down just after mewtwo commits to sideB and then fire another arrow to punish the sideB. If mewtwo tries to use shadow ball then nothing stops pit from downBing it back at him and punishing teleports/other options to avoid the shadow ball on mewtwo's part. With that in mind it seems that pit is mostly trying to avoid allowing mewtwo to get in from a good angle so that mewtwo is either inclined to use a bad approach option which gets punished with pit combos or mewtwo does nothing in which case pit keeps shooting. Mewtwo might be able to teleport in but teleport has a limited range and if you see mewtwo setup that range then you need to make yourself ready for aggressive teleports from mewtwo.

 

[Skelterai]

Pit definitely has bad matchups

Some require more caution than others, but some are downright difficult
Ganondorf, for instance is a tricky matchup. We aren't the heaviest character, so his hits can take stocks fast. Especially with his Fair, capable of ruining glide. If you add in his recovery options, (2 command grabs, a hover, and down b with a new jump) he becomes a much more difficult character to gimp.

I usually shoot arrows at him in the air and then punish his attempts to return to stage.

Chain grabs are also nice. But he is definitely a difficult matchup

 

[Life]

Nah, Ganon's easy. You just have to think about what your opponent is doing.

Can he fair me? Then what am I doing running into his fair range? Is he gonna try to double jump bait or float bait or whatever? Once you have Ganondorf's jump-ins under control, his grounded approach options are significantly less impressive. If he's trying to wall, that's what arrows are for. (Arrows are not the primary tactic for this matchup--like most of Ganondorf's matchups, your advantage over him is in your mobility, so you should be using it to your full advantage. Arrow camping involves not moving for like a second at a time, which is plenty enough window for him to get in and mess you up. The role of arrows in neutral is to force slow characters to play your fast game, not to trick your fast character into playing a slow one.)

Also, his recovery is painfully easy to punish--not necessarily with a kill 100% of the time, but all you have to do is grab the edge and he's forced to use laggy moves to return to the stage, which will at least net you an aerial and, if you're quick enough to land bair, a reset of the situation.

 

[Skelterai]

Yeah I suppose that's a fair assessment.

It's just that fighting a Ganon as a mid weight character doesn't leave any room for mistakes

Anytime I face a Ganon I have to be VERY careful.
There are a lot of good Ganon players in my region and I really don't like the matchup.

 

[Life]

Nitpicking, but we're 80 weight, which is the same weight as Pikachu and a few others, and slightly less than Squirtle. Pretty much makes us lightweight.

 

[Taytertot]

as a ganon secondary i can definitely say that pit will generally have control of the MU. i wouldnt know whether to take pit to a large stage in hopes to avoid more platform tech chases and arrows or a small stage in order to reduce the space pit has to move around and keep the match more close range. arrows while slow to fire, are fast enough in terms of projectile speed that itd be difficult to avoid considering ganon's movement, so if the pit player has good aim then as ganon id be forced to shield a lot, which keeps me from being able to get in on pit without putting myself in a bad position that allows pit to easily punish hard. Pit also can edgeguard ganon for days while im unsure if itd be as easy for ganon to do the same. At closer ranges pit might be able to punish a mis-spaced ftilt or dtilt (if its just far away enough that they whiff) from ganon by gliding into an aerial which would most likely start a pretty solid combo.

Something that pit has up on ganon in comparison to ganon vs marth is that pit doesnt get the marth effect of not being able to reliably get kills at higher percents, while pit also has a fundamental based gameplay like marth. pit may not have the same amount of disjoint but having a projectile forces ganon to approach rather then play a spacing/walling out game like he does vs marth which is a very big factor in why ganon vs marth is even.

Some things to watch out for in neutral are that ganon's ac nair and ac bair are both +1 on shield.

 

[Narelex]

Thoughts on the MK MU? Pit is quite a Rare character so I'm curious on your thoughts.

 

[Life]

Thoughts on the MK MU? Pit is quite a Rare character so I'm curious on your thoughts.

Dthrow is really good since MK is light. Not entirely sure whether he can DI out enough to tech before dash attack at most percents. Regrabs should be doable on bad DI (maybe with a little percent first), since it can be done on GnW.

MK's answers to arrows include dash attack, being really small and mobile, and nado (it clanks, right?). Pit shouldn't bother arrowing in the air; just shoot grounded arrows now and then to interrupt MK's dashdance.

MK doesn't have many answers to Pit's juggle game that aren't committal in some way. Dair is laggy enough to require a read, specials can be chased down. Having a ton of jumps helps him a lot with that, though.

I don't have the experience to back it up, but I'm guessing it's slightly MK's favor? He's faster in neutral and hard to shoot.

 

[Narelex]

Dthrow is really good since MK is light. Not entirely sure whether he can DI out enough to tech before dash attack at most percents. Regrabs should be doable on bad DI (maybe with a little percent first), since it can be done on GnW.

MK's answers to arrows include dash attack, being really small and mobile, and nado (it clanks, right?). Pit shouldn't bother arrowing in the air; just shoot grounded arrows now and then to interrupt MK's dashdance.

MK doesn't have many answers to Pit's juggle game that aren't committal in some way. Dair is laggy enough to require a read, specials can be chased down. Having a ton of jumps helps him a lot with that, though.

I don't have the experience to back it up, but I'm guessing it's slightly MK's favor? He's faster in neutral and hard to shoot.

It's not so much that MK is light its that he falls quickly.He can Nair (frame 3) to drop out of a sloppy combo. Pit is overall very easy to combo for MK as well.

They have some similar tools but MK's are overall a lot more rounded especially in the neutral. Arrow seems to be the main difference.

MK can be pretty stifling in the neutral and both characters aren't fully explored yet. I'm interested to see where these two go. MK seems to hold an advantage but by how much is the question.

 

[Life]

@Naralex You misunderstand. Dthrow is a weight-dependent animation; certain heavy characters such as Samus can get out of dthrow combos due to the extra endlag. MK is one of the lighter characters (at 79(?) he's a tiny bit lighter than Pit himself) so there isn't as much endlag to worry about. I'm just not 100% certain if he can hit the ground and tech before Pit can dash attack him; at any rate it's something to double check.

I think Pit might be a little better offstage; hard to say for sure. Such a rare matchup...

 

[Narelex]

@Naralex You misunderstand. Dthrow is a weight-dependent animation; certain heavy characters such as Samus can get out of dthrow combos due to the extra endlag. MK is one of the lighter characters (at 79(?) he's a tiny bit lighter than Pit himself) so there isn't as much endlag to worry about. I'm just not 100% certain if he can hit the ground and tech before Pit can dash attack him; at any rate it's something to double check.

I think Pit might be a little better offstage; hard to say for sure. Such a rare matchup...

Ah that makes sense.

Funnily enough Odds is probably the best Pit in our region since he plays around with him occasionally. It hasn't been for a long enough period for me to figure out the MU however. I wish there were more pit players.

 

[Life]

Did a little write-up on my experiences and theorycrafting in the Samus matchup for the matchup chart. Wanted to get everyone else's opinions, since they might have had different experiences from me:

There's a guy in my region who thinks Samus/Pit is like 20:80 or something LOL. I think he's nuts, but I wouldn't be surprised if Pit wins this matchup. Keep in mind this is largely theorycraft based on relatively little experience; if Sharkz or Gallo or a notable Samus contradicts me, feel free to go with them.

I can imagine getting down is a nightmare for her in the matchup (and indeed, the guy I mentioned basically ragequit after I juggled him for 100% plus a stock, though he wasn't using every tool she has to mix up her landings--the real Samus in our area I only barely defeated the one time we played). Pit has the mobility to avoid her projectiles, alongside his massively-buffed reflector (though as we all hopefully know, reflectors are more of a convenience than a real answer versus Samus), so I'm not sure what she does for zoning against Pit.

One advantage Samus does have in the matchup is that she's so heavy that Pit can't really combo her out of dthrow before she is able to just nair him. Because of this, I prefer uthrow in the Samus matchup. Combine that with her powerful CC game and I could see her doing decently in neutral, outside of the projectile stuff I mentioned.

In terms of offstage game: the threat of arrows makes bomb jumping a bit of a scary proposition for Samus. If Pit gets to the ledge before she can reel in her tether, she goes into a ton of lag, and if she's far enough offstage to be relying on tether to get back she will probably die to ledge hop back air if she gets hit by it. Lastly, if Pit can force her to land on stage with upB, that should likewise be a hard punish if he gets the back air. That said, usually Pit's gonna be relying on his stellar vertical game for punishes if I'm reading this matchup right, so it comes up less than you might think.

Meanwhile, a Pit that recovers low can be threatened by ledgehop aerials, or by dropping bombs in front of the ledge. Level with the stage, and Pit's asking for missiles or charge shot (he might be able to come down with shield but that puts him low). Arrow harassment will throw them off if they try to go to the ledge, since it'll force them to face front--I've seen a lot of players thrown out of their comfort zone as soon as they get turned around. If Pit's coming high, her best bet is to catch his landings with missiles or CC (he doesn't have aerial answers to CC at all until relatively high percents).

Overall, I suspect this is either a 0 or +1 for Pit matchup, where Samus has a decent advantage in neutral due to CC but gets punished very hard if she gets juggled.

 

[Player -0]

Played ESAM with Pit (and tbh was playing like trash that day and 0 adaptation. rip) and it felt kinda bad.

Samus bops Pit pretty bad in neutral. It's pretty hard to space Pit's stuff to start a juggle and stuff at low percent. You have to space Up Air super well or you get Naired. Up-Smash is SDI-able without too much of a problem. She can also just DI offstage to stop the juggle and get back on from ledge without TOO much of a hassle.

From super far to the side hitting moves Samus shouldn't really be recovering because arrows and stuff but Pit doesn't have a lot of those (rip D-Smash).

imo it'd be a +1 in Samus or so but I was obv. getting outplayed (curse you Smash 4 doubles) and playing terribly (1% adaptation happened). Maybe I'm missing something

 

[Saryngar]

Does anyone know how well Pit does vs Samus in 3.6

 

[Life]

Does anyone know how well Pit does vs Samus in 3.6

Scroll up.

 

[Saryngar]

Scroll up.

How did I not see that?

 

[Skelterai]

As for Pit vs MK, It's definitely a rare matchup, but one I don't like. He's hard to camp against thanks to his quick dash speed, and overall good DD potential.

He's not difficult to juggle, but I find him hard to gimp, and hard to recover against.

Besides that, I feel he combos us better, and edgeguards us better, with Nair and bair, he can either launch at us, or hold ledge and force us to recover high, and punish with bair.

I usually treat this matchup carefully. Arrow pressure is very important, and I like to fthrow/dthrow into arrows or dash attack.

Eventually, MK will die from Fair, Bair, and Up B, it's just all about finding it.

I think it's a slightly bad matchup for Pit. At least +1 in MK's favor

But it's open to what anyone else might think haha

 

[Life]

I would hash out the throw followups on MK but my scene doesn't have any so I'm not really inclined to.

But yeah, seems like you drew mostly the same conclusions both I and Naralex did.

 

[Skelterai]

Lol I only fight one dedicated MK main, and I use other characters when I fight him.

The dash attack and arrow follow ups aren't guaranteed. Purely situational and risky.

The key to the matchup is Arrows. Shoot everywhere.

EDIT: Not to say he's the only MK I fight. Filthy Casual and Fizz Khalifa have pretty big pockets and like to pick MK against my Pit.

 

[Skelterai]

How do you guys feel about the Marth matchup? If I missed it, forgive me lol I kinda jumped like 10 pages.

 

[Kneato]

Matchup from 's Perspective (+3 has Pit winning)

+3:
+2:
+1:
0:
-1:
-2:

-3:

?:

What do you guys think? Anything wildly inaccurate? What about the unknown matchups?

Not my opinion. This is for updating the (outdated) community matchup chart.

 

[Taytertot]

as a roy main who only plays pit every once in a while i definitely have some personal bias but i think roy pretty comfortably beats pit. roy's got a better DD a larger threat range and combos pit very well while pit does have combos on roy i dont think he confirms his kills nearly as easily. I also think roy can CC a lot of pits moveset which gives roy free dtilts into either combos or bair for the kill.

id assume wolf and rob beat pit pretty bad but id dont have any knowledge to back that up.

 

[Player -0]

I'm not really sure if Kirby is +2

It just sounds really hard for Pit and confirming kills is awkward, especially with Pit's broken Up Smash.

 

[Skelterai]

In 3.02, I stand firm in saying that Pit beat Roy. They could both combo each other to all hell, but Pit's recovery, combo game, and grab game were stupid good and Roy's fire Spike was just a meteor then.

Now, Roy has a worse recovery, a less godly dtilt, a more impossible dair spike(yet better attributes) and Pit lost basically everything that he beat Roy with, except gimps.

 

[Mechaglacier]

how does the pit-mew2 MU go

 

[Filosafer]

I'm also curious about the Pit GnW matchup. I've seen assorted people list it anywhere from +2 to -2, but I can't imagine it's any worse than even. I'm having trouble seeing the difficulties of the matchup, besides hardcore gimping. Such an intricate grab game and a somewhat decent roll on Pit means that GnWs usual approaches can't get much on shield, and arrows means he has to approach, usually. Even if he buckets, you can shoot more than three, and they do little enough damage to not destroy you in one hit. And he's so light, I've gotten kills from the platform on Yoshi's at 70% on him. I'm obviously not seeing the whole picture here though. Help?